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Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide


[DE]Rebecca

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Just now, ReasonX said:

The ON KILL trigger makes everything useless.

If you dont have enough damage, you cant kill, so you cant trigger this new things.

Endless loop.

If you change those thing to Disable a few seconds ON KILL, i believe it will be much better.

If your existing Guns on the Live Build can't kill trash Units to get the Galvanized Mods going, something's very wrong with your builds.

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How do we get Arcane Apertures?
With the power of the primary and secondary arcanes I fear that if they're at all difficult or expensive to get a hold of, it is going to limit what part of your arsenal to only the weapons you've bothered putting Apertures on.

For players like me who like to make every new weapon as powerful as I can in the meantime, the increased cost of doing the main thing I enjoy in Warframe nowadays might put me off altogether. I really can't be expected to shell out let's say 20 platinum extra for every weapon I want to make viable.

This dev workshop leaves me concerned in other ways as well, but I will refrain any judgement until I've gotten to try out the end result. The Arcane Aperture situation however is something I feel needs clarification as soon as possible.

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1 минуту назад, Petroklos сказал:

If your existing Guns on the Live Build can't kill trash Units to get the Galvanized Mods going, something's very wrong with your builds.

Berserker will be "on kill" as well. Have fun swinging Fragor or Gram on SP.

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Berserker changes are baffling to me.

Quickening still exists, Arcane Strike still exists, Rivens still exist. 

I don't see anything changing.

I don't mind, I'd like hammers to still be usable, I just don't get what you are doing.

 

also, why did you have to bonk glaives like that? Maybe its fine, just.. don't like it.

 

Galvanized mods seem fun. 

 

bows?

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Just now, Petroklos said:

So PPP has its place in Mid Level Missions and CO retains its place in High Level Missions and with Melees of Low Damage but High Attack Speed, or Low Crit but High Status in all Missions. How is that a problem.

The issue is that instead of making CO or PPP a choice, this just further cements the use cases for CO and PPP, except PPP is now the answer for the *majority* of the game's content instead of it being a toss up between CO and PPP.

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4 minutes ago, DiscordSan said:

Why kill all the glaives? I thought glaive prime was the main problem in regards to glaives.

They even nerfed the Kestral, the weapon that is known as one of the worse glaives. They just blindly nerfed every glaive 

 

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This sounds more like you really don't want people to play on the higher-end levels/Steel Path and just want to making killing enemies in such things much harder therefore deterring everyone that doesn't know how to exploit or cheese.
In reality more things needed buffs or some kind of adaptable scaling and every pantheon knows people still gripe about master fodder or how certain weapons just do not work one it hits a certain level

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6 минут назад, BalaDeSilver сказал:

I can count in one hand how many firearms are viable for steel path without a Riven. Including primaries and secondaries. 

Your hand has too much fingers.

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6 minutes ago, Petroklos said:

If your existing Guns on the Live Build can't kill trash Units to get the Galvanized Mods going, something's very wrong with your builds.

Then why would we need the new things? It can already kill fast enough. But if not, these mods are useless. These are for SP and from it, it won't help anybody outside.

 

Too bad they decided to go with the need to unlock the Arcane Slot, please don't make it expensive. Maybe a higher upfront cost to unlock it accountwide? Or a challenge.

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I read through most of this thread, both positive views and negative views, and I do think DE needs to open a testing server for this change. While it takes a lot of calculation to decide whether these nerfs are fair or not, it only takes a few tries for players to decide how the changes feel like. This is a serious change, please, PLEASE consider opening a testing server.

 

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Just now, MasterControl said:

The issue is that instead of making CO or PPP a choice, this just further cements the use cases for CO and PPP, except PPP is now the answer for the *majority* of the game's content instead of it being a toss up between CO and PPP.

PPP is not a choice in the Live Build, CO is simply better in all situations. In all situations, thanks to Weeping Wounds, forced Status Procs from Stances and Primer Guns.

There's no existing content in which PPP's slight head start compares to how much stronger CO gets.

Slowed down CO will at the very least create some niche for PPP to slot in, because, and let me repeat myself, PPP on the Live Build has no use when compared to CO.

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Some steps in the right direction, nice.

Some concerns:

  • Ranged weapons still suffer from slow weapon swapping and slow reload times, both of which force downtime in a way that melee circumvents entirely.
  • All of the "on headshot kill" effects will be hampered by slash procs, since headshot bleed kills don't count as "headshot kills." This might even make Rivens with a negative to Slash or Status Chance form a strange new ranged meta. (This will also potentially mean that increased status chance on primed weapons is actually a bad thing, and it's better to stick with the base variant.)

Suggestions: 

  • Add some more QOL effects to the galvanized mods, things like reload speed, holster speed, maybe small boosts to things like punch through, magazine size, etc...
  • DoT effects with headshot bonus should count as "headshot kills." Or change the "on headshot kill" requirement on these mods & arcanes.

 

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12 минут назад, Petroklos сказал:

If your existing Guns on the Live Build can't kill trash Units to get the Galvanized Mods going, something's very wrong with your builds.

I think he made a clear point that if you can kill things without new mods - you don't need  new mods. And if you can't - then these mods won't help you in doing so.

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Good faith feedback, succinct to avoid snark:

- adding additional mods to primary and secondary builds, but not increasing slots or capacity? They sound nice in concept but am I really going to replace a conditional mod (on kill) for a split chamber or serration that is passively increasing damage without any gimmick? Which leads to my next point-

- Conditonal mods that only trigger on primary/secondary weapon kill is bold, assuming we can do that with one mod slot removed from a build that hypothetically struggled on steel path to begin with. But then if you have to kill them with a headshot too? It can be done- my epitaph definitely encouraged me to aim for the head and it’s quite satisfying-  but that weapon has a fully modded build for headshots. This one mod that only triggers on a headshot kill (not even a hit), would it be worth it?

-the primary and secondary arcanes are much more appropriate. Good change. but unlocking them with steel path progress after your nerf, I must ask-

- so we are nerfed day one but have to earn the buffs to our load out? Where is the sense In that? How do we go about getting those buffs when our original damage output was insufficient to begin with? Once again, why would I then have to remove a passive/constant mod from my build to replace it with a conditional mod that won’t reach optimal performance until I kill specifically with that weapon? Once again, when getting a kill with that weapon was difficult enough with a load out of constant mods that didn’t need a gimmick to activate? Doesn’t that encourage people to use melee more since that damage is more static (and no the solution is not to make their damage less reliable, don’t even consider that, please don’t let that be the takeaway here- this has happened too many times)

- Melee nerfs are reasonable. Although Conditional Overloads nerf sounds harsh on paper. The parazon adjustments would seem to offset this, so I’ll withhold any brash reactions for now. I applaud you for encouraging the use of other mods instead. It wasn’t a broad sweep of nerfs. That’s always good. 

- I would suggest berserk fury be triggered on kill rather than strictly melee kill, that way players are encouraged to use all their arsenal to dispatch enemies at range but then only when they have exhausted primary and secondary  (and parazon!) options will they need to quickly neutralize an enemy who got too close. As melee might have originally been intended.
 
- The Helminth system upgrade is intriguing. Almost like you get a Warframe riven roll every week. 
 

- the parazon changes are ridiculous and sound like a lot of fun. I’m very anxious to see what mods are introduced and would like to suggesting adding a new slot. But if not that’s alright, couldn’t hurt to ask. 
 

Anyway, onto farming steel essence for the mods and hopefully a means to unlock that arcane.

 

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3 minutes ago, niutp said:

Then why would we need the new things? It can already kill fast enough. But if not, these mods are useless. These are for SP and from it, it won't help anybody outside.

 

Too bad they decided to go with the need to unlock the Arcane Slot, please don't make it expensive. Maybe a higher upfront cost to unlock it accountwide? Or a challenge.

Are we even playing the same game? Does the TTK on a Butcher vs a Heavy Gunner even compare? Of a Leaper vs a Jugulus? Of a Shield Osprey vs a Bursa?

You kill the Trash Units with the existing power level builds, to trigger the Galvanized Effects and start scaling your Damage so that you can kill the Heavy Units faster.

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14 minutes ago, DraekoSilver said:

You are nerfing the Kestrel?!

I am sorry? Did I read that right? What the hell do you think the kestrel needs a nerf?

Well  currently it's a MR0 weapon that can crush SP.  It's the worst weapon in its class by far, but the glaive rework in the fall was just that crazy.  

Since it has the lowest AoE. I do think the direct damage nerf will hit it harder than other glaive.    Which is a shame, as it's one of my favorites.  (Kestrel Prime when, DE???  💖 )

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