Either I can't into maths, or nobody at DE can. Which is it?

[Traumtulpe]

This is about the upcoming Parazon changes. Certain enemies will be eligible for finishers at 40% health by default, or 80% with sufficient impact procs.

However, since this is "too good" at high levels, it will be restricted to a maximum of 25k health remaining. Which, according to Pablo, would make no difference until level ~400.

Now, according to my math, basic (non-Eximus) Corrupted Heavy Gunners you'll encounter right after loading into a Steel Path mission have a hardcap for Parazon finishers at ~13% of their max health, regardless of impact procs.

[o0Despair0o]

Enemy stats don't scale liniar anymore, but in an S curve last I checked.

So... yay? If DE says it works, good enough for me. I almost never play level 100+ content anyway.

[Aldain]

Are you calculating eHP or strictly health?

Because a vanilla Heavy Gunner at level 150 has around 38,000 Cloned Flesh health, their eHP is over 1 million though.

Not sure about the exact Steel Path Math, but even at 200% health that 25k is still a pretty wide window to work with.

Now if it factors in eHP then yeah, it's a complete dud, but if it only uses base health then it makes sense.

[Traumtulpe]

Just now, Aldain said:

Are you calculating eHP or strictly health? [...] even at 200% health added to the base that 25k is still a pretty wide window to work with.

Only health, a Corrupted Heavy Gunner level 40 has 11.452 health according to the wiki. Steel Path is 250%, so 28.630, 80% of which is 22.904, so quite close to the cap already.

[Katinka]

The script for Heavy Gunner health on the Wiki isn't loading for me but they start at 300 while Corrupted Heavy Gunners start at 700 (both level 8).

If 40% health is 25,000 then 100% health is 62,500.  If I assume both the Gunners level up on the same curve and health remains at a 3:7 ratio then Heavy Gunners would hit 62,500 when Corrupted Heavy Gunners are at 145,833.  The Wiki says they break that at 382.  This doesn't take into account Steel Path bonus though.

Edit:  And it's working for me now... level 382 is 62,571.06 health

[Traumtulpe]

6 minutes ago, Katinka said:

[...]

Not sure what you are trying to say. Wiki says level 140 = 87.020 health. Steel Path raises that to 217.550. Doesn't take a genius to see that 25.000 is little more than 10% of that.

[Katinka]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

Not sure what you are trying to say. Wiki says level 140 = 87.020 health. Steel Path raises that to 217.550. Doesn't take a genius to see that 25.000 is a little more than 10% of that.

I'm saying that level 382 Heavy Gunners have 62,571 health and 40% of that is 25,028 so that's probably why Pablo said it takes effect at about 400, because 382 is pretty close to 400.  That doesn't include Steel Path but I don't recall him saying level 400 on Steel Path.  On Steel Path even a level 101 Heavy Gunner is going to need to be taken down to about 23%.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, Katinka said:

I'm saying that level 382 Heavy Gunners have 62,571 health and 40% of that is 25,028 so that's probably why Pablo said it takes effect at about 400, because 382 is pretty close to 400.  That doesn't include Steel Path but I don't recall him saying level 400 on Steel Path.  On Steel Path even a level 101 Heavy Gunner is going to need to be taken down to about 23%.

Regardless, I'd still like to be told that basic (non-Eximus) Corrupted Heavy Gunners you'll encounter right after loading into a Steel Path mission don't have a hardcap for Parazon finishers at ~13% of their max health, regardless of impact procs.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

as someone who also isn't good at math, I'm just gonna keep doing what I normally do: if the red thing appears, go to stabby-stab. 

sometimes complex problems require simple solutions. 

[Traumtulpe]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I'm just gonna keep doing what I normally do: if the red thing appears, go to stabby-stab.

I'm going to make a video of me trying my best to get Parazon kills in 5 minutes of Steel Path Mot. Taking bets on how many it'll be, mine is 0.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

4 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I'm going to make a video of me trying my best to get Parazon kills in 5 minutes of Steel Path Mot. Taking bets on how many it'll be, mine is 0.

if you take enough impact damage with you , you should get one or two, maybe. either way I've never found myself depending on my Parazon for combat outside of murmur farms and Lich fights, probably better off going for the little guys: Lancers and Crewmen most. 

[Traumtulpe]

19 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

if you take enough impact damage with you , you should get one or two, maybe

You didn't read the first post, did you? Nothing over 25k health can get Parazon'd, that's ~13% health of Corrupted Heavy Gunners. Impact doesn't change that.

 

19 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

probably better off going for the little guys: Lancers and Crewmen most.

Those will no longer be available for the Parazon finishers. At all. Please read what DE wrote about the changes.

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

29 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You didn't read the first post, did you? Nothing over 25k health can get Parazon'd, that's ~13% health of Corrupted Heavy Gunners. Impact doesn't change that.

I think he meant the base 40% cannot exceed 25k health, do not  include impact proc.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, (PSN)caoshen0625 said:

I think he meant the base 40% cannot exceed 25k health, do not  include impact proc.

That is a generous assumtion, but even then they will be hardcapped at ~25% right from the start of the mission. How often do you use impact weapons against Corrupted on the Steel Path? And how often do you see enemies at 25% health? Because for me, both answers are "precisely zero".

[RazerXPrime]

So you were using parazon finishers all the time in Steel Path?

[Traumtulpe]

4 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

So you were using parazon finishers all the time in Steel Path?

Obviously I was using them never, except for a couple times in the Simulacrum to test their mods. Nobody using them ever was the reason for their rework. Anyhow, that isn't what this thread is about, it's about Pablo saying the 25k restriction won't do anything until level ~400, when it actually severely limits the usability of the Parazon in a normal Steel Path mission.

[(PSN)caoshen0625]

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

That is a generous assumtion, but even then they will be hardcapped at ~25% right from the start of the mission. How often do you use impact weapons against Corrupted on the Steel Path? And how often do you see enemies at 25% health? Because for me, both answers are "precisely zero".

It does feel weird that they did not take SP into consideration. Although I'm not sure if the impact proc is capped as well. 

[RazerXPrime]

2 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Obviously I was using them never, except for a couple times in the Simulacrum to test their mods. Nobody using them ever was the reason for their rework. Anyhow, that isn't what this thread is about, it's about Pablo saying the 25k restriction won't do anything until level ~400, when it actually severely limits the usability of the Parazon in a normal Steel Path mission.

...which you were never using before. So how is this change affecting your gameplay?

[Traumtulpe]

Just now, RazerXPrime said:

...which you were never using before. So how is this change affecting your gameplay?

It doesn't, that is the point. DE wanted to change gameplay, but failed due to bad math. Congratulations on finally understanding.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

I think the wiki calculations are wrong. but...

3 hours ago, Aldain said:

Are you calculating eHP or strictly health?

Because a vanilla Heavy Gunner at level 150 has around 38,000 Cloned Flesh health, their eHP is over 1 million though.

Not sure about the exact Steel Path Math, but even at 200% health that 25k is still a pretty wide window to work with.

Now if it factors in eHP then yeah, it's a complete dud, but if it only uses base health then it makes sense.

This would put 25K at around 32% health though.  So OP may be right.

[RazerXPrime]

18 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

It doesn't, that is the point. DE wanted to change gameplay, but failed due to bad math. Congratulations on finally understanding.

Yea it doesn't change anything for like a tiny part of the game. But also, congratz on meta analysing and complaining about something you haven't even tested yet.

 

[Jarriaga]

17 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

Yea it doesn't change anything for like a tiny part of the game. But also, congratz on meta analysing and complaining about something you haven't even tested yet.

You often call out other posters for being unreasonable, but this time I think you are being unreasonable. DE gave you a flat number and explained the mechanics and requirements about that flat number.

They don't hold up. So either the number they gave you is wrong, or they didn't consider TSP at all.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Regardless.

The parazon changes were the only definitively good thing that was announced today.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I just don't see why it matters either way. Certainly not worthy of a topic.

[(PSN)thowed]

I never used finishers anyway.  Once they were low enough just tapping melee was faster than watching the animation.  Of course I understand the people who use it for the benefits of finishing, I just never found them all that useful with all the tools already at my disposal.