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Either I can't into maths, or nobody at DE can. Which is it?


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DE tends to miss the forest for the trees. They'll approach things reasonably in a vacuum, but Warframe is a plate of spaghetti.

Remember Corrosive?

New Corrosive at max stacks allows it to effectively bypass 95% of Ferrite armor, (80% Strip + 75% Bypass) with an additional 1.75x multiplier.

1-1/1.75=0.429 or 42.9% DR is required to negate the 1.75x multiplier which is afforded by 225 net armor, or 4500 initial armor.

Old Corrosive's full strip breaks even with New Corrosive at 10 stacks against 4500 initial Ferrite armor. After this armor level, the New Corrosive is straight up inferior, but 4500 armor is not coincidentally what a level 74ish Heavy Gunner sports which is roughly when the new lower S curve armor scaling kicks in.

Theoretically, Corrosive performs similarly on Ferrite armor like before, but what did change was how Corrosive performs against Alloy.

Old Corrosive performed better than Radiation against Alloy armored enemies by fully stripping armor, but New Corrosive can't.

New Corrosive's 80% armor strip is always worse than Radiation's 75% Alloy armor mitigation and 1.75x multiplier. This was what DE originally intended for the relationship between Corrosive VS Ferrite and Radiation Vs Alloy.

But of course, Steel Path came out and these carefully laid out considerations for Corrosive's scaling were thrown out the window.

 

So players just used Viral + Slash as it got better with Viral's buff.

Slash lost the 4xIPS priority which was supposed to mitigate the newly buffed Viral to compensate, but melee stances with forced Bleed and Crit primaries Hunter Munitions exist.

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6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

 since Steel Path scales health further, it will apply at a lower level

 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Steel Path has its own scaling reagrding everything else, so why shouldnt the parazon cap follow?

Did you change your mind so fast? Or what exactly mean "cap follow"? I've read this as cap follow scaling and have same multipler.

 

And what about your question.... Oh, did you read the post or at least listen Pablo? He pointed out we shouldn't worry about cap, because lvl 400 and you will close to never see this cap in action. Obliviosly this is not true.

16 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It clearly says in the workshop notes that it is either 40% HP or 25k health, whichever is lower. So since Steel Path scales health further, it will apply at a lower level there than the example given which was a normal star chart Heavy Gunner. They also point out that this will be the behavior we'll see once we hit level 400+ content (generally). 

Oh, this is copy-paste... Sorry, i don't understood you at all. You just throw away part there problem is. "This only applies for really high enemies and units". << does this looks like the example? 400+ content mean for 95% of the comunity "i will never see this, so i'm don't care". And from some words ("only", "REALLY high") i conclude that this is exactly the impression the DE wanted to make. Maybe i'm wrong, and for you SP is something really high?

 

 

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21 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

Did you change your mind so fast? Or what exactly mean "cap follow"? I've read this as cap follow scaling and have same multipler.

And what about your question.... Oh, did you read the post or at least listen Pablo? He pointed out we shouldn't worry about cap, because lvl 400 and you will close to never see this cap in action. Obliviosly this is not true.

Oh, this is copy-paste... Sorry, i don't understood you at all. You just throw away part there problem is. "This only applies for really high enemies and units". << does this looks like the example? 400+ content mean for 95% of the comunity "i will never see this, so i'm don't care". And from some words ("only", "REALLY high") i conclude that this is exactly the impression the DE wanted to make. Maybe i'm wrong, and for you SP is something really high?

Not sure what makes you think that. The cap is based on raw max health, nothing else. Steel Path increases health by 200%, so the cap is encountered earlier on in the levels there since the health is higher directly. You and others completely miss, ignore or dont understand why they decided to also specifically use the term "generally" more than once in their explaination. Generally = in most of the game you'll never encounter the cap. Steel Path isnt a general part of the game, same as level 400+ enemies.

It isnt like they sat down and said "the cap will kick in at level 400". No they sat down and made a threshold that was an either/or mechanic, either 40% health or 25k health. This resulted in star chart enemies of the heavier kind would use the 25k hp cap at around level 400. While SP mobs of the same kind will use that cap earlier on due to 200% increased health.

SP really high? In health, obviously yes since the mobs have as much (or more) health on entry levels in SP as they have at around level 400 on the star chart. And health is what matters with the parazon interaction.

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21 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

This is about the upcoming Parazon changes. Certain enemies will be eligible for finishers at 40% health by default, or 80% with sufficient impact procs.

However, since this is "too good" at high levels, it will be restricted to a maximum of 25k health remaining. Which, according to Pablo, would make no difference until level ~400.

Now, according to my math, basic (non-Eximus) Corrupted Heavy Gunners you'll encounter right after loading into a Steel Path mission have a hardcap for Parazon finishers at ~13% of their max health, regardless of impact procs.

Can confirm your math is off. Dev Workshop says Heavy Gunners, not Corrupted Heavy Gunners. They also made no mention of Steel Path.
Heavy Gunners have 300 base health, and a base level of 8. Level 400 Heavy Gunner has 64,052 health.
latex.png

25,000/64,502 = 39%, so Workshop math checks out.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Can confirm your math is off. [...] Heavy Gunners, not Corrupted Havy Gunners.

That has nothing to do with what I said, or with my math.

Try again. Steel Path Corrupted Heavy Gunners capped at 13% health yes or no?

Edited by Traumtulpe
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29 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

That has nothing to do with what I said, or with my math.

Try again. Steel Path Corrupted Heavy Gunners capped at 13% health yes or no?

Impact procs raise the threshold by 4% per proc. 50k health is 27.4% of a lvl 100 SP Corrupted heavy gunner’s health.

Addressing your implicit point that the cap is too low, you’ve chosen a unit with abnormally high base health for a heavy unit as your example. Bombards and Nullifiers will be available for Mercies too and they both have much less base health.

Edited by (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom
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Just now, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

you chosen a unit with abnormally high base health for a heavy unit as your example. Bombards and Nullifiers will be available for Mercies too and they both have much less base health

Against the Corrupted, Corrupted Heavy Gunners and Ancients are the one realistic targets (and Ancients have enough health for the cap to be noticable as well). By the way, there are no level 100 Corrupted Heavy Gunners on the Steel Path, 140 is more realistic.

Why do I exclude Bombards, Nullifiers and Eximus? Because Bombards are very rare, Nullifiers die in one hit even to terrible weapons, and Eximus don't really spawn in the first ~10 minutes.

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6 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

By the way, there are no level 100 Corrupted Heavy Gunners on the Steel Path, 140 is more realistic.

Bit of irony given that you use lvl ~110 in your original post. So that’s 26.1% at lvl 110 with impact procs.

6 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Why do I exclude Bombards, Nullifiers and Eximus? Because Bombards are very rare, Nullifiers die in one hit even to terrible weapons, and Eximus don't really spawn in the first ~10 minutes

Have you tried running missions with a base level >30 on non-SP. Because nullifiers and bombards don’t spawn unless it’s it’s 30+.

Lvl 110 corrupted ancient with impact procs only needs ~44% health left.

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