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Thoughts about Galvanized Mods and Berserker mod?


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Sorry for the bad English, I'm not an English speaker.

When berserker's triggering prerequisite was changed from critical damage to kill after "The Arsenal Divide". I found that the new "Berserker Fury" would make weapons that rely on combo less capable in advanced maps like Steel Path.

           1. when the 75% speed bonus by Berserker is removed, and players must trigger its effect by melee kills instead of crit damage: It would be difficult for melees to cram up combos and finish hi-lvl mobs in Steel path just with their stock statistics. e.g. Nikana

           2. when the duration of Berserker was halved, sustaining a higher attack speed in missions where you need to take down multiple targets scattered far away from each other, 10 seconds would be too short to move to a target and eliminate it.

 

And about the Galvanized Mods for ranged weapons, some of the triggering prerequisites are not that appropriate for going over Steel Path, or even missions above lvl 50.

        1. Still, kills as triggering condition isn't that fair for weapons with low stock damage and dps. The only types weapons that could trigger these effects with efficiency are AOE weapons, shotguns and snipers, and there would be less space for SMGs and ARs to take advantage of these mods. Players would not like emptying their smg's magazine over and over again just for triggering the Galvanized effects. Changing the triggering condition from kill to crit damage would be more friendlier for AR and SMG users, and unpopular guns would start to appear in players' load outs.

        2. There's another triggering condition that would make most players sad is Head-shot kills. Not everyone has that precision and if they do, all the Warframe players should take part in CS-GO pro-league. On the other hand, taking head shots on every mob in Exterminate missions would be boring and tired. We need to find better solutions for Galvanized mods to make it friendly and fun for everyone.

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It's so hard to prime the enemies with melee and then kill them with the primary or secondary to trigger the mod/arcane effects? because people mostly do the opposite already and have zero issues. 

About the headshots, did you know that you can freeze enemies with multiple abilities (and even with the operator)? I mean, it's not that hard to land headshtos when things like Condomn exist.

Use another mods, personally I've never liked berseker and I've always used P Fury since I've got it, same with the Bloodrush / weeping wounds / condition overload meta, I hate those mods with passion and the only weapon I've put those nonsensical stuff is in the Xoris for the meme.

If I could clear steel path rivenless, without those mods and with umbra (nova and frost for some missions) I'm sure anyone can, because I don't even minmax. In fact if you think* that something above lvl 50 is hard, you should really consider your builds.

Edited by vanaukas
typo
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Personally, I always preferred Quickening to Berserker.  I don't hit quite as fast, but the speed is consistent and I reach 12x faster.  I'm more concerned about the Condition Overload and Blood Rush nerfs, to be honest -- not sure how much weaker my Steel Path build will become after those.

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12 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

I'm going to play with Berserker off my build for now to get a feel for it while taking on a single Big Boss with no buffs running and see how it goes. :tongue:

Yeah , it's noticeable for slower weapons like some great swords and hammers , not so much for others , the forma cost is a different thing though.

39 minutes ago, Guderirian said:

When berserker's triggering prerequisite was changed from critical damage to kill after "The Arsenal Divide". I found that the new "Berserker Fury" would make weapons that rely on combo less capable in advanced maps like Steel Path.

           1. when the 75% speed bonus by Berserker is removed, and players must trigger its effect by melee kills instead of crit damage: It would be difficult for melees to cram up combos and finish hi-lvl mobs in Steel path just with their stock statistics. e.g. Nikana

           2. when the duration of Berserker was halved, sustaining a higher attack speed in missions where you need to take down multiple targets scattered far away from each other, 10 seconds would be too short to move to a target and eliminate it.

Yes , that is the intention, to make the melee less powerful and not as convenient to gain power. I dont think the issue will be noticeable until we reach sortie levels though.

43 minutes ago, Guderirian said:

 

And about the Galvanized Mods for ranged weapons, some of the triggering prerequisites are not that appropriate for going over Steel Path, or even missions above lvl 50.

        1. Still, kills as triggering condition isn't that fair for weapons with low stock damage and dps. The only types weapons that could trigger these effects with efficiency are AOE weapons, shotguns and snipers, and there would be less space for SMGs and ARs to take advantage of these mods. Players would not like emptying their smg's magazine over and over again just for triggering the Galvanized effects. Changing the triggering condition from kill to crit damage would be more friendlier for AR and SMG users, and unpopular guns would start to appear in players' load outs.

        2. There's another triggering condition that would make most players sad is Head-shot kills. Not everyone has that precision and if they do, all the Warframe players should take part in CS-GO pro-league. On the other hand, taking head shots on every mob in Exterminate missions would be boring and tired. We need to find better solutions for Galvanized mods to make it friendly and fun for everyone.

I think with galvanized mods range weapons would be in similar power levels as melee , IF they could trigger the effects consistently.

I agree some of the weapons will not be able to actually take advantage of it as they won't be able to reliably kill enemies at higher levels , but they are not worse off than where they are now. 

The crit chance and status chance effects need a different trigger mechanism in my opinion , MS to trigger on kills is fine.

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47 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

I'm going to play with Berserker off my build for now to get a feel for it while taking on a single Big Boss with no buffs running and see how it goes. :tongue:

25 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Yeah , it's noticeable for slower weapons like some great swords and hammers , not so much for others , the forma cost is a different thing though.

Just finished a test with my Scindo Prime/Greatsword (I run the Heavy Blade Mizar Skin) in Steel Path on Lua Exterminate 206 enemies, yes slower and constant speed, they still fell over easy just not as fast, took 21 minutes damn enemies spawn all over the tileset you have to go get them, 3 Acolytes turned up in that time I thanked them for my Steel Essence after they got in the way of my Scindo Prime.

For lol's I replaced Berserker with Spring-Loaded Blade, very funny to watch when it triggered on my riven is +2.2 Range combined with Primed Reach, I used to run it on my Zenistar and the extra range when it kicked in on that was very noticeable so no idea what my Scindo Prime got out too but it was hitting a lot of enemies. :tongue:

Now to get serious and try it with just a speed mod.

Edit:
Ok, Primed Fury takes it out from 0.967 to 1.50. 

Edit:
Holy crap, that's to fast, to keep my same speed I'll just use Gladiator Vice 1.26, it will be the same speed as Berserker but be there from the start of my swing.

Edited by Slayer-.
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I'm keeping it. This change barely affects anything I use. Blood rush nerf just means I use Helios more or arcanes and I rarely use CO because I dont play to a level that needs it 🤷‍♀️

RIP my comical Guandao build I had with every attack speed mod though. It didn't do much damage but i could go from 0 to 12x combo in a couple of seconds if there was a good mob around 😂😂

I do wonder if attack speed will become meta rolls for rivens though.

As for new mods, I'll play with them when I get them. I'll probably do more dumb things with my Kuva Orgris for lols

Edited by Butterfly85
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3 hours ago, Guderirian said:

Sorry for the bad English, I'm not an English speaker

Didn't see any grammatical errors, so you're doing good.

 

Melee changes won't bother me much. I rarely build for combo. Berserker will probably be swapped for Primed fury since you won't benefit from boss scenarios with fewer enemies.

The headshot arcane realistically won't see any use from me. I'll probably just double down on explosive/ AOE weapons since the new mods favor high kill rates for max stacks. Single shot weapons just aren't that useful in this horde shooter.

Edited by Deminisis
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Once DE realize that there are other ways to go over their wanted threshold attackspeed, they will nerf other methods too
Just get used to favour aoe guns, if melee is still strong they will just further nerf it in the future

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hace 4 horas, _Euphoria_ dijo:

Use arcane strike instead of Berserker Fury, problem solved

Not really... Fury, arcane strike, give additive bonus. Berserker was a multiplicative bonus, which was the reason it was soooo good. At best, nerfing Berserker means a 30% dps reduction, if not more. With Blood Rush and Condition Overload nerf the overall dps reduction may be... ¿50%? Its a complete extermination xD

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All of the other nerfs are kinda big but not insane, you can live with them...everyone is ignoring the giant nerf CO will get - lower damage, stacks only 3 times?
They essentially killed berseker and CO with this and it was supposed to be a 10% nerf (like the first devstream talked about)?
By killing CO they essentially killed the status kuva nukor(even if it wasn't nerfed for the chaining) or any other proc weapon out there(it is not worth it to get a specific loadout just for 240% melee damage)
I really really hope that the primary/secondary mods can do this ban atomic bomb of a nerf a worth while competitor, because if they are subpar ... this will be one big large stinkin' turd of an update.

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Might hurt some of my older builds, I mean, I haven't use Berserker in years. 

Not exactly a big deal for me. But the META Knights are probably throwing another fit.

Prepare for the rounds of people who will kick and scream about the ruin of the game. We had one yesterday, but got so ridiculous that a Mod hid the thread, but I registered it.

Edited by Kaotyke
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11 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

All of the other nerfs are kinda big but not insane, you can live with them...everyone is ignoring the giant nerf CO will get - lower damage, stacks only 3 times?

And don't forget the Blood Rush nerf from +60% to +40% Crit. Chance per combo stack.  Doing some quick calculations on my current go-to Steel Path melee, a Sepfahn Zaw with 34% base CC and 5.0x modded CM, the effective Crit.-based damage multiplier goes from 13.94x down to 9.86x, an effective 29% damage nerf.  And this is before taking the CO nerf into account.  I'm seriously considering putting some Gladiator mods on my Warframe now to make up for the loss.

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berserker will still be somewhat viable, the only nerf I take some issue with is Kuva Nukor: don't get me wrong, the fact it would be nerfed at all was so obvious you could see it from space, but I question why it's chaining had to be nerfed when the main reason for bringing Kuva Nukor -Condition Overload - is getting nerfed anyway? all DE have accomplished is making the Kuva Nukor worse as a regular Secondary. only one or the other needed to be touched to break that meta IMO.

The Galvanized Mods sound pretty great though, but I still feel it might not be enough to make non-AoE weapons competitive. I guess time will tell.

 

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i have few weapons that don't use berserker at all, will have to see how this new version fits.

galvanized mods are like saying "get a job to get experience, you need experience to get a job"

Edited by ReddyDisco
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5 hours ago, _Euphoria_ said:

Use arcane strike instead of Berserker Fury, problem solved

Can't compensate. Arcane Strike, (Primed) Fury, Gladiator Vice and Quickening are additive buffs while Berserker is multiplicative.

A weapon with base 0.9 attack speed + Primed Fury + Arcane Strike = 1.93

A weapon with base 0.9 attack speed + Primed Fury + Berserker (Even at 60% to match Arcane Strike, not the full value) = 2.23 (Full value: 2.44)

People who think Arcane Strike can make up for the Berserker have no idea how Berserker works. Not to mention, I was already using Arcane Strike + Berserker.

----------------

On topic:

The change to on-kill trigger condition killed Berserker for me. The fact I can't reliably use it against Sentients, bosses and Demolysts in Disruption means not something I can depend on. In addition, I don't understand why DE decided to decrease the buff duration to 10 seconds if the idea/goal is to encourage guns because those who will remain using Berserker will need to kill something with melee every 10 seconds to sustain the buff, which runs counter to wanting to kill things with guns.

I already removed Berserker from all my melees in preparation for the update and replaced it with Primed Fury. Even with Arcane Strike, the difference in attack speed (And thus my melee DPS) is so harsh that I decided to roll some of my rivens for attack speed just so I can get closer to how Berserker feels on it's own..... 2 mods and an Arcane just to compensate a single mod. This is a very raw deal.

Edited by Jarriaga
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55 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Can't compensate. Arcane Strike, (Primed) Fury, Gladiator Vice and Quickening are additive buffs while Berserker is multiplicative.

A weapon with base 0.9 attack speed + Primed Fury + Arcane Strike = 1.93

A weapon with base 0.9 attack speed + Primed Fury + Berserker (Even at 60% to match Arcane Strike, not the full value) = 2.23 (Full value: 2.44)

People who think Arcane Strike can make up for the Berserker have no idea how Berserker works. Not to mention, I was already using Arcane Strike + Berserker.

----------------

On topic:

The change to on-kill trigger condition killed Berserker for me. The fact I can't reliably use it against Sentients, bosses and Demolysts in Disruption means not something I can depend on. In addition, I don't understand why DE decided to decrease the buff duration to 10 seconds if the idea/goal is to encourage guns because those who will remain using Berserker will need to kill something with melee every 10 seconds to sustain the buff, which runs counter to wanting to kill things with guns.

I already removed Berserker from all my melees in preparation for the update and replaced it with Primed Fury. Even with Arcane Strike, the difference in attack speed (And thus my melee DPS) is so harsh that I decided to roll some of my rivens for attack speed just so I can get closer to how Berserker feels on it's own..... 2 mods and an Arcane just to compensate a single mod. This is a very raw deal.

I think the solution will be primed fury + arcane + riven/gladiator vice (riven better of course)

Also condition overload max stacks will be 3 this is a massive nerf

This probly means heavy attacks builds, specially those with forced slash attacks will bebetter than actually a hybrid build

Anyways i will wait the update ..

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1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

And don't forget the Blood Rush nerf from +60% to +40% Crit. Chance per combo stack.  Doing some quick calculations on my current go-to Steel Path melee, a Sepfahn Zaw with 34% base CC and 5.0x modded CM, the effective Crit.-based damage multiplier goes from 13.94x down to 9.86x, an effective 29% damage nerf.  And this is before taking the CO nerf into account.  I'm seriously considering putting some Gladiator mods on my Warframe now to make up for the loss.

No, I said this is big but not AS BIG as the CO nerf, especially the max 3 stacks of statuses - that means that this equation

Total Damage = Base Damage × [1 + Damage Mods + (Condition Overload Multiplier × n)] × (1 + Elemental Mods)

will become essentially this

Total Damage = Base Damage × [1 + Damage Mods + (Condition Overload Multiplier × 3)] × (1 + Elemental Mods)

I don't remember the max cap on co with maximum status effects but it was somewhere in the realm of 16 status effects - that means 120x16=1920% melee damage(most of the time you get from 5-7 status so that's 840%)
Now it will be max 240% melee damage cap.
If it was only br nerfed...it's a bad but not as bad as so much damage lost from co imo.

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3 minutes ago, Danielw8 said:

Also condition overload max stacks will be 3 this is a massive nerf

2 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

Now it will be max 240% melee damage cap.

I think this is a misunderstanding. Reb meant to say that at 3 stacks, nerfed CO will match the value it currently has at 2. No cap, just lower buff value.

Edited by Jarriaga
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1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

I think this is a misunderstanding. Reb meant to say that at 3 stacks, nerfed CO will match the value it currently has at 2. No cap, just lower buff value.

copy paste from rebbeca

Condition Overload

Condition Overload’s maximum value is being lowered. It’s been some time since we originally changed this Mod, and in this time we’ve decided we’re still not happy with the way this goes up against other Damage Mods (namely Primed Pressure Point). We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally. It remains true that even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration.

can be a misundersteanding, or mistake, or maybe they will back to "infinite" status types, like i said we need to wait the update..

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2 minutes ago, Danielw8 said:

copy paste from rebbeca

Condition Overload

Condition Overload’s maximum value is being lowered. It’s been some time since we originally changed this Mod, and in this time we’ve decided we’re still not happy with the way this goes up against other Damage Mods (namely Primed Pressure Point). We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally. It remains true that even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration.

can be a misundersteanding, or mistake, or maybe they will back to "infinite" status types, like i said we need to wait the update..

Yes, and from that I got that at 3 stacks (240) you'll get back to what you currently have at 2 (240). I understand it means more effort from that wording and no cap indication or implication from there. 

Edited by Jarriaga
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