The Dev Workshop that Broke the Camels Back

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

TL:DR- Community: Man i wish guns could be a viable option for Steel Path. DE: You're right community! Let's nerf the crap out of melee! Oh yeah and let's give them some mods and arcanes that don't adress the problem at all... And while we're at it, let's poop on all the vets again that mainly stick around for the one reward that's actually good, rivens, and let's make Steel Essence despawn after 5 minutes cuz those crafty lil buggers are staying in missions for a long time and using a tool for its actual intended purpose.

Let me start by saying I'm an MR30 with around 4k hours into the game. I've spent well over $1k usd over the years on Prime Accesses and various Packs. This by no means makes me an expert, but I can confidently say I understand the game and it's content, and by default DE in general, than the majority of newer players. I have white knighted for DE for years. I've taken up for them when a large number of players quite the game for some of the same reasons I'm about to go over. And quite frankly I'm done with it. This last dev workshop for sisters of parvos is the last straw. I can no longer in good faith stand up for such incompetency. Yes i know, harsh words, but it's the truth. The problem was that guns were not a good viable option for Steel Path. DE's fix is to nerf melee, and give us band-aid mods and arcanes. A recurring theme in the last few years.

They say attack speed was too high, you couldn't see and appreciate the animations. Does the berserker changes fix that? No. Which is fine by me, i think lowering it too much would be too detrimental to weapons with slower attack speeds. The on kill change, and lowering of the duration to 10 secs is a bit much imo also. Being able to seamlessly and quickly mow down enemies with your blade of choice is a favorite playstyle to a lot of WF players. Rebecca herself said that they would never nerf melee too much because of that very reason. 

The changes to Blood Rush and Condition Overload. Oh boy. Blood Rush gets a third of its cc potential removed. Why again? Because there's too many red crits? Wow ok. If you take a look at all the melee weapons, there's actually a small percentage that can red crit with only Blood Rush. Condition Overload changes. Big Yikes on this one. Damage reduced to 80% per status. Ok that's not bad, CO was already a really powerful mod. Oh and it's going back to only 3 status types. What? That's what's in the dev notes. Go check it out because a lot of people are missing this HUGE little point. DE tell us you hate endurance players without telling us you hate endurance players. You know, like a lot of your veteran players. The ones that have and potentially will spend the most money with you guys. 

The gun mods and arcanes all actually look pretty decent, except that the majority are ON KILL. And that it's JUST 126 more arcanes you need to farm.  Lol, oh DE, youz guyz with your sense of humor. IF THE GUNS AREN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH TO GET A KILL IN THE FIRST PLACE, HOW ARE THESE SUPPOSED TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM. The whole reason for ALL of these changes. So now all you've done is make the very few viable Steel Path ranged weapons more powerful, which is good. But have done nothing for the 95% of the other ranged weapons, which is bad. 

Now the things that upset me the most. The reasons why i just may have to move on to other games. 

We have to unlock the arcane slots, for every ranged weapon, with some kind of adapter from Teshin for 15 Steel Essence EACH. This blows my mind. You're basically punishing us for your ineptitude. These should be FREE, on every gun. Period. Full Stop.

And then the icing on the proverbial cake. Steel Essence will now despawn after 5 minutes. Yea you say you've increased acolyte spawn times. You said when acolytes were first implemented in SP that they would spawn every 5 mins. Which is not the case the vast majority of times. So i suspect this acolyte "buff", is to actually get them to that 5 min time. This despawn timer isnt for any other resource in the game, just SE. Why is it such a big issue that we spend an hour in a survival just on the chance we get a proc from our smeetas? Ah too much kuva. Yes we've gotten more ways to farm it. Are they good? No. It takes 3500 kuva for 1 roll. The sortie reward is 6000 kuva which I've always thought was hilarious. Floods and siphons give what, 1200-1800. And don't get me started on arbi's. So as you can see Steel Essence is the only viable kuva farm. Yes we actually do need 100k kuva for 2 hours in a survival when the VAST majority of riven rolls are garbage. + Faction damage + faction damage - 100% multishot, FANTASTIC, there went 3500 kuva. Rivens are what keep a lot of us Vets playing the game. And you've constantly crapped on them. Lowering the dispo to .5 on new weapons makes rivens worthless on those, and makes prime weapons irrelevant and worse off than their non-primed with a riven counterpart. What are you guys thinking? Seriously it seems like every new nerf hits vets harder than anyone else. Rivens are the only good reward, that can keep on rewarding, if the supply of kuva is good. Do i really want to spend an hour in a survival so i can just roll my riven 5 times? No. I don't. 

DE I really wish WF could be better. The community has great ideas that you only seem to partially listen to. You're community reps are THE BEST in the business, hands down. Rebecca, Megan, all of them deserve a huge raise. Your art work and level design and just the whole look of WF is phenomenal. The fluidity of movement and gun and sword play are for the most part top notch. But whoever makes the decisions for all these nerfs and buffs, you guys need a hand. Hire some new blood. I'm not saying fire everyone, just, idk, actually LISTEN to the community. I really do hope the best for you guys. But if WF stays on its current path, this Tenno can't walk it with you. 

 

[Aldain]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

Oh and it's going back to only 3 status types.

No it isn't, there was no wording of a cap anywhere in that workshop.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

No it isn't, there was no wording of a cap anywhere in that workshop.

Then why say it's going back to 3 Status types at all? Lol

[Aldain]

Just now, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

Then why say it's going back to 3 Status types at all? Lol

They didn't say it was going back to three status types, they said that it will outperform Primed Pressure Point at 3 statuses instead of 2.

Nowhere mentioned a cap in that workshop.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

6 minutes ago, Aldain said:

They didn't say it was going back to three status types, they said that it will outperform Primed Pressure Point at 3 statuses instead of 

"We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally." 

They don't say anything about what you claim.

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

"We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally." 

They don't say anything about what you claim.

They forgot to add an "at" after that "and".

The intent of the sentence is that it will be outperforming Primed Pressure Point at 3 Status or more, and the math with it set at 80% per status matches this line of thinking (240% at 3 status) which also happens to be where it was at 2 status BEFORE the change (120% per Status and 240% at 2).

It doesn't say they're capping it, that line is there to outline that the adjustment isn't nerfing it into the ground, just making you need one more status to get where it currently is at 2 status effects.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

They forgot to add an "at" after that "and".

The intent of the sentence is that it will be outperforming Primed Pressure Point at 3 Status or more, and the math with it set at 80% per status matches this line of thinking (240% at 3 status) which also happens to be where it was at 2 status BEFORE the change (120% per Status and 240% at 2).

It doesn't say they're capping it, that line is there to outline that the adjustment isn't nerfing it into the ground, just making you need one more status to get where it currently is at 2 status effects.

I'm pretty sure it's referring to when CO was capped at 3 since they were talking about the last time they changed it in the sentence before the one i quoted. But I guess we will see. Was that the only thing you disagreed with? 

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

Was that the only thing you disagreed with?

No, but honestly I don't feel like getting in a long debate over multiple topics today, I just wanted to show the counterpoint to the CO thing to prevent misinformation because of DE's clumsy wording in the workshop.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

No, but honestly I don't feel like getting in a long debate over multiple topics today, I just wanted to show the counterpoint to the CO thing to prevent misinformation because of DE's clumsy wording in the workshop.

Well that's your interpretation of it. My interpretation doesn't need to add any words to it. But like i said, we'll see. No point in debating 2 plausible interpretations when neither of us have any more information than the other. Just what's been provided to us both. Have a good one mate.

[RS219]

What was that reassurance we got a while back on a devstream?

"No nerfs! But we will be improving the gun mechanics across the board."

So much for that, eh?

[Loza03]

2 minutes ago, RS219 said:

What was that reassurance we got a while back on a devstream?

"No nerfs! But we will be improving the gun mechanics across the board."

So much for that, eh?

No, they said that there would be some nerfs.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

I just remember Rebecca saying they would make a small change to attack speed and possibly to the stagger mechanics so enemies weren't stunlocked, which would have been great if that was all they nerfed. I really do feel sorry for the community team cuz they probably have to deal with the majority of the backlash. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

I think people are exaggerating, looking at it melee is still going to be stronger just not as bonkers as it was

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Of all the complaints I did not expect a timer on the steel essence to be that hot a topic. The timer is a non factor UNLESS you were abusing the games drop mechanic systems to force massive drops with a smeeta. 
 

As for the other changes Im 50/50 on them. The berserker change seems weird because now its both useable on non-crit weapons, but few people ran it with fury before anyway so the fact the two cant be combined seems weird.
 

The bloodrush change is whatever because gladiator mods exist, but the CO change is saddening for my baruuk. I dont understand where you’re getting the “CO will be capped like before” because it never was capped before. There was confusion with its original first change because it seemed to cap at 3 statuses, but it never did, and it wasnt something that was ever planned as far as we know. 

[Krankbert]

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk:

I'm pretty sure it's referring to when CO was capped at 3

CO was never capped at 3.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk:

Well that's your interpretation of it. My interpretation doesn't need to add any words to it. 

His interpretation needs to add a word, your interpretation needs to fabricate a cap that never existed. What's more likely? That they omitted a single word or that they phrased the entire sentence wrong because they happen to misremember the last melee rework in the same way you do?

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

3 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

CO was never capped at 3.

 

His interpretation needs to add a word, your interpretation needs to fabricate a cap that never existed. What's more likely? That they omitted a single word or that they phrased the entire sentence wrong because they happen to misremember the last melee rework in the same way you do?

CO was capped at 3 at the beginning of the last melee rework then it was reverted to no cap. But nice try. 

[Krankbert]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk:

CO was capped at 3 at the beginning of the last melee rework then it was reverted to no cap. But nice try. 

No. CO was never capped at 3. If you want to claim otherwise, quote the patchnotes where the cap was announced or the patchnotes where the cap was removed.

You're misremembering that just like this guy is misremembering the dev stream.

vor einer Stunde schrieb RS219:

What was that reassurance we got a while back on a devstream?

"No nerfs! But we will be improving the gun mechanics across the board."

So much for that, eh?

That also never happened. In fact, the exact opposite happened.

[Tesseract7777]

So to sum it up:

Some stuff is going to be nerfed. 

We will have to grind to unlock the new arcane slots. 

And OP is very angry about this, and is threatening that he may have to quit if they keep making these kinds of decisions. 

 

 

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Of all the complaints I did not expect a timer on the steel essence to be that hot a topic. The timer is a non factor UNLESS you were abusing the games drop mechanic systems to force massive drops with a smeeta. 
 

As for the other changes Im 50/50 on them. The berserker change seems weird because now its both useable on non-crit weapons, but few people ran it with fury before anyway so the fact the two cant be combined seems weird.
 

The bloodrush change is whatever because gladiator mods exist, but the CO change is saddening for my baruuk. I dont understand where you’re getting the “CO will be capped like before” because it never was capped before. There was confusion with its original first change because it seemed to cap at 3 statuses, but it never did, and it wasnt something that was ever planned as far as we know. 

How is waiting for a smeeta proc to pick up a resource abusing the game? If it were everyone doing it would get a ban. 

[Tesseract7777]

Condition Overload Patch History: 

Hotfix 28.0.6 (2020-06-24)

Fixed Condition Overload not affecting the Stropha shots.

Fixed Condition Overload not affecting the damage of a thrown Glaive.

Update 26.0 (2019-10-31)

Now uses a stacking multiplier based on how many Status Effects are on the target at 120% damage per Status.

During this whole Melee rebalance, Condition Overload remained a persistent outlier. Since launch, it has had an unintended stacking mechanic, that nothing else uses in the game: it grew exponentially, making it too volatile to balance. We know there’s nothing worse than ‘how can you call this unintended’, so let’s explain the history: initially it did the stacking on final damage, which, as you know from previous changes, we have been trying to move away from. This is because this type of stacking makes for very hard to control damage progression, and tends to be very confusing as to which damage, Melee/Proc etc, applies where. This new version of the mod makes Condition Overload’s damage multiplication become equal to Pressure Point when the enemy has 1 Status applied, better than Primed Pressure Point at 2 Statuses applied, and from there it just grows and grows. Even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration.

The new ‘Lifted’ Status also counts for Condition Overload calculation. Revised Stances and the new Heavy Attack give reliable ways of applying Status to enemies, which greatly increases the reliability of Condition Overload

Update 19.2 (2016-12-01)

Introduced.

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

How is waiting for a smeeta proc to pick up a resource abusing the game? If it were everyone doing it would get a ban. 

I wouldn't exactly call it abuse... per say, I don't think anyone should be punished for it. But it falls close enough to the exploit category, that someone could potentially get in trouble for telling a lot of other people how to do it. 

It's definitely not something the devs intended, for you to sit and wait for a multi-tek enhanced Smeeta buff so you can grab a huge gob of SE. Letting it stick around was so people wouldn't miss it, they just forgot how to play their own game again. 

[Aldain]

5 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Update 26.0

A link to the exact thread, which has a table which shows 1-7 status effects before and after changes which serves as a proof that it was never capped at three status max. As a support to the assertion of Tessaract's post.

 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

1 minute ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

How is waiting for a smeeta proc to pick up a resource abusing the game? If it were everyone doing it would get a ban. 

No, because people arent usually banned for abusing mechanics. Thats an action restricted to actions like blatant cheating/auto play macros. As for the mechanic, it is an abuse because you have to manipulate both spawns and item drops to achieve the set up. Again, its a non issue UNLESS you used this method. Its obvious you did. 

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

Just now, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

No, because people arent usually banned for abusing mechanics. Thats an action restricted to actions like blatant cheating/auto play macros. As for the mechanic, it is an abuse because you have to manipulate both spawns and item drops to achieve the set up. Again, its a non issue UNLESS you used this method. Its obvious you did. 

Please explain how not picking up a resource is MANIPULATING anything lmao

[trst]

The melee nerfs are irrelevant as they can still be blenders without Berserker, the stats on BR and CO are still overkill for all content, and they didn't touch heavy attack builds except for Glaives. Also the mods aren't band-aids as the problem with guns has never been their stats (which was even pointed out in the post) but the discrepancies between aoe vs non aoe and the ridiculous scaling effects melee mods have. The only thing not addressed is the aoe issue which can't actually be solved without giving every weapon in the game aoe damage.

Also guns are, in-fact, strong enough to get kills to start stacking the new mods. If you're using a gun that literally can't kill things then you've either used a bad build, a weapon that has no right in the content you're running (no not everything should be viable, period.), or you've sit in an endurance run long enough for your damage to start falling off. And the problem here was never actually the strength of guns to begin with but that DE allowed melee to become so overpowered and refused to correct that mistake.