The Dev Workshop that Broke the Camels Back

[Tesseract7777]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

A link to the exact thread, which has a table which shows 1-7 status effects before and after changes which serves as a proof that it was never capped at three status max.

 

Yeah, that was in the patch history I tried to copy over, but it didn't come through, I think when I switched from rich text to plain text I lost it, which I was doing because I couldn't see it on my dark theme otherwise. 

Anyone can check the wiki though, its all there, including the table you talked about. 

What isn't there is anything about a "cap of three". 

[Aldain]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

What isn't there is anything about a "cap of three". 

There was initially a discussion about capping it at three, but that never made it live and if it were ever in the post it was edited to have that removed.

I distinctly remember a big stink being raised when DE even remotely implied that there was going to be a cap and that caused them to rescind the idea before update 26 dropped.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

There was initially a discussion about capping it at three, but that never made it live and if it were ever in the post it was edited to have that removed.

I distinctly remember a big stink being raised when DE even remotely implied that there was going to be a cap and that caused them to rescind the idea before update 26 dropped.

That's what i was talking about, that's what i believe Rebecca was talking about in the dev workshop

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, Aldain said:

There was initially a discussion about capping it at three, but that never made it live and if it were ever in the post it was edited to have that removed.

I distinctly remember a big stink being raised when DE even remotely implied that there was going to be a cap and that caused them to rescind the idea before update 26 dropped.

I think the other reason people keep getting confused is because whenever the devs talk about balancing it versus PPP, they discuss how powerful it is at three stacks. 

This isn't because they have capped it at that, but because I am guessing that is the average number they expect a non min-maxing player to get on enemies while using it without a lot of extra effort or high level mods, and they want it to be at least competitive somewhat as a sidegrade, but not totally overshadow it. 

So I can understand the confusion, but if people just went to the wiki, which has all the official patch notes, with links to the relevant patch threads if anyone wants to cross reference and check the wikis work, they could save themselves these silly arguments. 

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Aldain:

There was initially a discussion about capping it at three, but that never made it live and if it were ever in the post it was edited to have that removed.

I distinctly remember a big stink being raised when DE even remotely implied that there was going to be a cap and that caused them to rescind the idea before update 26 dropped.

It was only ever in the dev workshop that preceded that patch.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

There was initially a discussion about capping it at three, but that never made it live and if it were ever in the post it was edited to have that removed.

I distinctly remember a big stink being raised when DE even remotely implied that there was going to be a cap and that caused them to rescind the idea before update 26 dropped.

And it was more than a discussion they had already changed the mod to say up to 3 Status Effects

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

And it was more than a discussion they had already changed the mod to say up to 3 Status Effects

Maybe in a dev build they showed off... but never player side. 

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

And it was more than a discussion they had already changed the mod to say up to 3 Status Effects

Only in preview images of the dev build, it never made it into the live game.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

Maybe in a dev build they showed off... but never player side. 

I wanna say it was in the test build as well but I'm just going off of memory

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk:

I wanna say it was in the test build as well but I'm just going off of memory

And if it was in a dev build, it certainly was more than just discussion. That kind of thing took a dev at least a minute to implement. A minute-and-a-half if you include changing the text on the mod!

[Zhoyzu]

Yea, as far as more arcanes i couldnt care less about its looking like itll still be the same game.

 

Edit: and lol you can see this is just an overreaction thread by the way the likes have been handed out across the posts.

[Butterfly85]

Looks at thread, wall of text. Shrugs. I really cba with this stuff.

Everything will be fine, guns will be more viable for steel path, melee changes won't affect anyone who doesnt go in for 8 hour survival runs. I'm glad the cat buff stack was thanos snapped. It was a ridiculous thing to hope for anyway.

 

[Unibot]

2 минуты назад, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk сказал:

If you had read it, you might understand why you're wrong. 

He is too busy looking at his post counter.

It's not the first time DE lied about things to come. At some point they even considered not making future dev workshop threads cause after getting lots of negative critic while trying to force some unwanted changes. DE only do what they want and mask it as things you want, thats how it will be.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

1 minute ago, Unibot said:

He is too busy looking at his post counter.

It's not the first time DE lied about things to come. At some point they even considered not making future dev workshop threads cause after getting lots of negative critic while trying to force some unwanted changes. DE only do what they want and mask it as things you want, thats how it will be.

Unfortunately I can't disagree with you

[LillyRaccune]

PREFACE: Condition Overload was never capped at 3 stacks, but it was something they planned. The community rioted, DE did not implement it. We are not arguing whether or not a specific change ever reached Certification, we are talking about DE making poor management decisions (nerfing melee for example).

2 hours ago, Krankbert said:

No. CO was never capped at 3. If you want to claim otherwise, quote the patchnotes where the cap was announced or the patchnotes where the cap was removed.

You're misremembering that just like this guy is misremembering the dev stream.

"Condition Overload - Now stacks at a maximum of 3 Status Effects, however damage is being increased from 60% to a higher percent to balance the change. Final % to come.  "

(This quote was taken directly from Melee "3.0" Phase 2 Workshop that was planned to be released with U26. It is little surprise that the player base encouraged them to reconsider.)

 

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

7 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

"Condition Overload - Now stacks at a maximum of 3 Status Effects, however damage is being increased from 60% to a higher percent to balance the change. Final % to come.  "

(This quote was taken directly from Melee "3.0" Phase 2 Workshop that was planned to be released with U26. It is little surprise that the player base encouraged them to reconsider.)

 

Thank you very much :)

[(PSN)AEtherCrow]

I'm a Bloody space ninja why would I wanna go at slow speed using melee to admire bizzare and terribly animated melee stances? No I wanna go zippy zippy zappy zoom zoom as I slice and dice enemies into bits. there logic of Warframe is a "shoot looter" is weak it's a prefixed title that means literally nothing.

DE's logic here is garbage, the workshop is garbage they're fixing melee something literally no one asked for because DE is so out of touch with his own playerbase and their game it's ridiculous literally stick to fixing shadows, make cosmetics, make content, stop trying to balance weapons with nerfs. 

Nerfing melee is DE's way of conceding the fact they have literally nothing for how to fix guns. I could tell you easily how to fix guns give guns a new meter like suppression rate a fully suppressed enemy takes x10 damage or something, literally reinvent Guns in this game like you have so many other aspects and the community would probably praise the attempt even if it the result wasn't great any improvement would've warranted respect for trying. The galvanized mods are utter garbage if they work off kills then they're inherently bad compared to an extremely nerf'd Condition overload, Blood Rush, Weeping Wounds etc. Mods that require you to kill something before it applies anything is literally a neg to my overall versatility how am I suppose to strategize off something that's impossible to get to work in high end content? the answer is you cannot nor would I want to.

Strategy? are you kidding me DE do not use that word to describe Warframe in any capacity you're a Looter game and hypocrite because literally any weapon or strat we the community make to effectively grind your content you just nerf it into oblivion saying it's broken? Kuva Nukor into condition overload was one of the community favorite ways to use Nukor but guess what? you nerf'd it instead of fixing the actual issue. Guns are bad because the devs designed them intentionally to be bad if they were made to be good for truly high level content if you did make them good for that level content you swiftly nerf NERF NERF NERF!! the crap out of the weapons.

 

The term exploit is used extremely loose in this thread.

an exploit is an abuse of an unintended bug in the game that's it's definition, there is very clear difference between abusing/using a poorly designed system aka something like the smeeta and abusing say the Khora Glitch to Min/Max your warframe via fortuna method which was later fixed or abusing Limbo's 4th with the unfixed Telsa Nervos Aug do to helmith.

Smeeta buff for loot? Not an exploit

Condition Overload + nukor? Sure it's an unintended system interaction they made but it's not a bug both systems work fine therefore not an exploit.

Khora Bug to instantly max your Warframe or weapon rank using the bug/glitch? an exploit which was patched.

Limbo's 4th + helmith Telsa Nervos.?  a Bug in the matrix that would cause the entire floor to instantly die no matter their level or health do to a bug in the game. using it is an exploit.

 

 

[Aldain]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)AEtherCrow said:

why don't you fact check yourself before you try to call out someone else.

 

CO was capped to 3 status types with 120% damage per status. literally youtube it or like aactually log into the game and read CO for once in your life.

You might want to look through this thread, it was only stated to be capped in a dev workshop that came before update 26 dropped, in the patch notes of which DE stated that there be no cap at all (both of which are linked in this very thread).

Nothing about the recent workshop indicates that the cap will be a standard, and currently before the coming Parvos update it isn't capped either.

I've checked the facts, you've shot your mouth off.

[Sl4ught3r777]

I totally agree they nerfed which works because everyone was using them more and now they want to make good to which no one uses by making those new things drop from SP to r5 arcane = 21  each acol drops 1 that's 25*5 min = 125  but wait there's 12 arcanes which obviously drop random because why not. And also arcane  procs when u kill a enemy , only weapon to kill fast enemy in SP so they won;t kill you are snipers , i think the second arcane is all for that .  But we are all not DeadShot who only head shots an enemy. And that 100% ammo max , i mean won;t all be using bramma now ?
and comeon with those berserker nerf on kill really  , and that blood rush u say red crits easily , i say what. with my nami skyla with max 12 x it's cc is 167% that is close to orange where are red crits ?

i mean melee was fine why nerf it , but guns buff boy did you seriosuly mess this one  . we got new arcanes for you  but  not for new players  , only for those who has unlocked SP and wants to spend few hours there  just to get those arcanes and mods but u can't use arcanes on all weapon  , u will need to buy  a part for 15 SE for that. 

i mean the buff was only for veterans?
so when player start , he/she used melee all the way to unlock all nodes then have to change play style?
 

 

[(PSN)AEtherCrow]

2 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Read like... the last three pages of this thread... for once in your life.

This whole thing has already been completely hashed out to death. 

CBA because half of it is garbo and the other half is actual constructive conversation I read the constructive stuff not the meaningless posts.

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, (PSN)AEtherCrow said:

CBA because half of it is garbo and the other half is actual constructive conversation I read the constructive stuff not the meaningless posts.

Well then don't shoot off about convo's going in the topic if you aren't going to read the posts in regards to that convo. You are making yourself look silly because you didn't read first, and jumped into a discussion that has already been fully explained, and resolved, between all parties. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

23 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

-snip-

That's the workshop, when it actually released in the game it didn't have it so it never was capped

 

[Surbusken]

I found a lot of it confusing.

When I've been reading the various threads and posts, it just starts piling on, the next guy asks what about rivens, what about archwing.

The 500 issues everyone is talking about, except the developers.

 

"Buff guns", turned into a giant grind fest, for "new" items, for EACH individual weapon through arcanes and mods. So no buff then?

I thought we were talking about actually doing something about the state and problems of guns, singleshot vs AOE, the damage types and all that. You know, the things the players actually talk about everyday... lol.

I don't feel like the developers fixing their own weapons, should require any work on my part and it should definitely include the whole community.

Then they add it to steel path, which makes me really, really confused, because if I am out here playing steel path with a lex prime, clearly, guns did not need a buff.

If the not-really-a-buff buff to guns was needed to play steel path, how can I play steel path, to get to that point? Guns work on steel path or no?

What about players that don't play steel path, they just don't matter at all, I guess?

 

The arbitration copy-pasted into helminth the same, just leaves me with a bunch of questions. Like, what the f is the point? lol, but again, is this really the priority right now? Out of everything on the players' mind, we had to have another status immunity, or an armor buff?

Then you have people who straight up re-grinded every frame in the whole game and put into helminth already, whom, can really just go f themselves?

Those people deserve their face on billboard outside DE's office, and the next 10 prime packs for free or something. Congressional medal of honor for their work.

 

Too bad for you, you were stupid enough to actually play the helminth system, you just waste your ability to earn on exp. Explain that mindset for me, the most loyal, dedicated players are spit in the face for their efforts.

Those are obviously the players you want to have in your game and protect your relationship with them, for the developers own sake.

Nah, you can go grind it out by spamming the same ability on something you don't need, because we aren't even adding content to support the third re-grind of helminth.

What?

Like, they are blaming us for their problems wanting to whip us into another marathon grind, only now so lazy they can't even add the content needed for the grind?

You now have to grind 10 steel essence for a VFX fix to the script. How much I have to grind to remap my controls? 5 steel essence?

I hope it's some kind of a sick joke on an intern or something, it's someone's birthday or something, is this real life? Maybe they had a death in the office, so they didn't even have time to check if the youtube videos were up.

 

I don't know what happened or when but this whole 'show contempt for the players by punishing them with the grind', just went to a whole new dimension of the twilight zone.

Don't know if the players are going to have to go on some apology tour and try to make amends or something, but it isn't going to hold up carrying on with how much they hate us.

[(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk]

You're all missing the point I was making. Here's what Rebecca said in the dev workshop. My interpretation of it, is she's referring to the last dev workshop when they had capped it at 3 status effects on October 18, 2019. I believe that's the correct date. And yes i know it didn't make it into the final build cuz everyone complained about it. Anyway here's what Rebecca said, "Condition Overload’s maximum value is being lowered. It’s been some time since we originally changed this Mod, and in this time we’ve decided we’re still not happy with the way this goes up against other Damage Mods (namely Primed Pressure Point). We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally. It remains true that even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration."

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, Morteno said:

Why should it be wrong to take their own words at face value?

Because face value can be wrong and assumptions usually only lead to wild misunderstandings?

That's a pretty good reason that comes to mind.