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The Dev Workshop that Broke the Camels Back


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30 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

@Kaotykeyou should see this before it gets locked and cleaned, it's hilarious

I did, but was busy eating 1Kg of peanuts and didnt want to clean the keyboard. Now I'm suffering the consequences of my arrogance and Fracturing Wind like the Juggernaut.

But you're all doing fair enough on your own, my brand of sarcasm is unneeded, I just needed to see the "I've spend x amount of money" to see what this was going to be. An I was right. If there's any constructivity there, I cant see it beneath the layers of emotion and rant and search of validation. The part of "endurance players being hated by DE" was particularly pointed in what kind of rant this was.

And they have repeatedly said that they dont want players to play the game for hours upon hours and wont balance the game around those players. So, yeah. Perhaps DE has a boiling, seething, contemptuous, edgy HATRED for their players.

Specially Geoff. I still remember when they showed him helping make TSD cinematic by pulling a rope tied to the waist and looking dead ahead to the camera with a dead fish look on his face. It was... haunting.

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16 minutes ago, (PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO said:

I agree with OP, the changes to berserker are dumb not making it stack with other speed mods i get but the overall changes to it are dumb, changing blood rush and CO won't make me use melee less so they are equally dumb changes.

Not be able to stack speed mods was the coming nerf they told us, they just want to end red cross that's all, i can already see an increase of use in stat sticks, khora and octavia being more popular, a game breaking abuse of the invigoration system, primary and secondary guns getting more used? yeah right, DE just made it worst.

Thank you for your reply and reading my post, i do appreciate it :)

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2 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

I did, but was busy eating 1Kg of peanuts and didnt want to clean the keyboard. Now I'm suffering the consequences of my arrogance and Fracturing Wind like the Juggernaut.

But you're all doing fair enough on your own, my brand of sarcasm is unneeded, I just needed to see the "I've spend x amount of money" to see what this was going to be. An I was right. If there's any constructivity there, I cant see it beneath the layers of emotion and rant and search of validation. The part of "endurance players being hated by DE" was particularly pointed in what kind of rant this was.

And they have repeatedly said that they dont want players to play the game for hours upon hours and wont balance the game around those players. So, yeah. Perhaps DE has a boiling, seething, contemptuous, edgy HATRED for their players.

Specially Geoff. I still remember when they showed him helping make TSD cinematic by pulling a rope tied to the waist and looking dead ahead to the camera with a dead fish look on his face. It was... haunting.

:crylaugh::crylaugh::crylaugh:

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I love topics that complain about upcoming changes.

I remember when people complained about the Helminth system and how some abilities had less effectiveness. Oh my the salt was real. And in the end? It made no difference.

Why don't we wait for the results eh? See how it is and if it doesn't feel good, THEN bring the salt. I mean I will still snigger at it, but at least you have had actual experience rather than use spreadsheet wisdom aided by far fetched fantasies.

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14 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

I did, but was busy eating 1Kg of peanuts and didnt want to clean the keyboard. Now I'm suffering the consequences of my arrogance and Fracturing Wind like the Juggernaut.

But you're all doing fair enough on your own, my brand of sarcasm is unneeded, I just needed to see the "I've spend x amount of money" to see what this was going to be. An I was right. If there's any constructivity there, I cant see it beneath the layers of emotion and rant and search of validation. The part of "endurance players being hated by DE" was particularly pointed in what kind of rant this was.

And they have repeatedly said that they dont want players to play the game for hours upon hours and wont balance the game around those players. So, yeah. Perhaps DE has a boiling, seething, contemptuous, edgy HATRED for their players.

Specially Geoff. I still remember when they showed him helping make TSD cinematic by pulling a rope tied to the waist and looking dead ahead to the camera with a dead fish look on his face. It was... haunting.

My post actually has a lot of constructive criticism and it's how a lot of vets feel about the current state of the game. Your post however didn't have much constructive criticism. Sooo congrats on saying a lot without really saying much. 

 

11 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

I love topics that complain about upcoming changes.

I remember when people complained about the Helminth system and how some abilities had less effectiveness. Oh my the salt was real. And in the end? It made no difference.

Why don't we wait for the results eh? See how it is and if it doesn't feel good, THEN bring the salt. I mean I will still snigger at it, but at least you have had actual experience rather than use spreadsheet wisdom aided by far fetched fantasies.

People complain about upcoming changes so those changes won't be implemented. It's happened numerous times in the past with dev workshops.

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vor 18 Minuten schrieb (PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO:

I agree with OP, the changes to berserker are dumb not making it stack with other speed mods i get but the overall changes to it are dumb, changing blood rush and CO won't make me use melee less so they are equally dumb changes.

Not be able to stack speed mods was the coming nerf they told us, they just want to end red cross that's all, i can already see an increase of use in stat sticks, khora and octavia being more popular, a game breaking abuse of the invigoration system, primary and secondary guns getting more used? yeah right, DE just made it worst.

khora still offers top performance. i am against "los nerf" and do not play it anymore, but the skill damage with a weapon against bubbles is convincing. back then i even had 1st skill bound to the right mouse button.
actually DE does nothing better. a different all-round warframe and weapon is simply suggested. and i was always for a wide range of possibilities.
why so many good-looking warframes and weapons when most of them only offer lousy performance ...

well ...

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11 minutes ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

People complain about upcoming changes so those changes won't be implemented. It's happened numerous times in the past with dev workshops.

Well I for one am looking forward to all the changes. And I think they are good changes. Possibly the nerfs to melee may be a tad on the weaker side. I was expecting CO to get a cap. I doubt any kind of complaining is going to change their minds.

Most of the time people who complain about upcoming changes are dead wrong about the actual effects of said change and just complain because they are afraid of change.

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il y a 5 minutes, RazerXPrime a dit :

Most of the time people who complain about upcoming changes are dead wrong about the actual effects of said change and just complain because they are afraid of change.

well said, but the worst is that even if melee dmg was cut in half, we still woudlnt be right to complain about it because it would still be too overpowered.The effect it would have on the game would be almost unnoticeable

Edited by WeeDao
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4 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Well I for one am looking forward to all the changes. And I think they are good changes. Possibly the nerfs to melee may be a tad on the weaker side. I was expecting CO to get a cap. I doubt any kind of complaining is going to change their minds.

Most of the time people who complain about upcoming changes are dead wrong about the actual effects of said change and just complain because they are afraid of change.

Dude DE changes their minds all the time because of backlash. And you probably don't care about the changes because they don't effect you. You know what, you should make a post about what you like about the changes, and that melee needs an even bigger nerf, and see what the community thinks about it. I guarantee you that the vast majority of people who play endgame content don't and will not agree with you. Happy writing mate. 

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5 minutes ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

Dude DE changes their minds all the time because of backlash. And you probably don't care about the changes because they don't effect you. You know what, you should make a post about what you like about the changes, and that melee needs an even bigger nerf, and see what the community thinks about it. I guarantee you that the vast majority of people who play endgame content don't and will not agree with you. Happy writing mate. 

Man if I do that people will think I'm trolling. The community here is so salty they will never believe it.

Why would the changes not affect me? You're like full of ideas about me. I disagree with how you approach these changes so I must not be affected by them. Haha. Ok my man.

Maybe the nerfs are too much, maybe not. Maybe it won't make a hoot of difference. I'm saying let's wait and see instead of moaning about it.

Edit: oh wait I did post something as a joke here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1266165-melee-nerf-concern/ got tons of likes. How many likes did you get? I mean we're doing a pissing contest right?

 

Edited by RazerXPrime
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vor 2 Stunden schrieb LillyRaccune:

 

  Unsichtbaren Inhalt anzeigen

Off topic: I kind of wish Sony or EA purchased DE because I would like to see Warframe 2 come out instead. I've been playing Ghost Runner and if DE's aethestic skills were applied to a game that was well directed, it would be awesome.

 

Yes that is correct. I think the primary focus is that they were planning a super nerf. I don't dispute that they never implemented this change into an actual update. This is just part of the "paper trail".

This quote is ambiguous. There is no reference to the chart suggesting how many status types are required. There is little context to "where it was originally" is supposed to mean.

 

Condition overload used to be better than Primed Pressure Point at 3 status effects until they changed it in the big melee rework. Since then it has been better than Primed Pressure Point at 2 status effects. With the reduced value mentioned in this dev workshop it will go back to being better than Primed Pressure Point at 3 status effects.

Personally I think it’s completely asinine to suggest that „where it was originally“ is arbitrarily referencing the state of some random dev build in 2019 and not referencing the state where the mod was in when it was first introduced. What the #*!% do you guys think „originally“ means. Get yourselves a dictionary because I’m starting to get sick of explaining words to people.

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4 minutes ago, (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk said:

Dude DE changes their minds all the time because of backlash. And you probably don't care about the changes because they don't effect you. You know what, you should make a post about what you like about the changes, and that melee needs an even bigger nerf, and see what the community thinks about it. I guarantee you that the vast majority of people who play endgame content don't and will not agree with you. Happy writing mate. 

Define “endgame content”, though. Because I don’t think these nerfs are going to be that noticeable beyond endurance content, which is a minuscule part of the player base, and DE has stated numerous times they’ll never balance the game around endurance runs.

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3 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Man if I do that people will think I'm trolling. The community here is so salty they will never believe it.

Why would the changes not affect me? You're like full of ideas about me. I disagree with how you approach these changes so I must not be affected by them. Haha. Ok my man.

Maybe the nerfs are too much, maybe not. Maybe it won't make a hoot of difference. I'm saying let's wait and see instead of moaning about it.

See I'd rather moan about it now than have bad ideas implemented, then have to wait another 6 months to a year for them to be changed. Kuva Nukor has been out over a year now and they're just now saying they're gonna nerf it lol. But anyways i know what you mean. I've been doing that exact thing ever since i started playing wf. This dev workshop was just too much for me, and here we are. Have a good one mate.

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5 minutes ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Define “endgame content”, though. Because I don’t think these nerfs are going to be that noticeable beyond endurance content, which is a minuscule part of the player base, and DE has stated numerous times they’ll never balance the game around endurance runs.

They may say that in one breath yet they put level cap 9 hours into a survival. Please explain that logic. Do you have any quotes that say they won't cater to endurance players? I'm not saying they've never been said i just haven't heard them. And i watch every dev stream and keep up with 90% of wf news. 

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16 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Condition overload used to be better than Primed Pressure Point at 3 status effects until they changed it in the big melee rework. Since then it has been better than Primed Pressure Point at 2 status effects.

Condition Overload was infinitely better than Primed Pressure Point at 1 status effect because it was a separate multiplier using an exponential formula and not base damage. DE then changed it to base damage which overshadowed Primed Pressure Point on most builds at 2 status effects. Now DE wants to slightly increase the build up of beating Primed Pressure Point. These mods never competed with each other until Melee 2.99 because they originally multiplied off each other.

I just wanted to point this out and correct you so players get proper historical information on the state of this mod. Your comment is still good though :).

Edited by Voltage
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vor 4 Minuten schrieb Voltage:

Condition Overload was infinitely better than Primed Pressure Point at 1 status effect because it was a separate multiplier using an exponential formula and not base damage. DE then changed it to base damage which overshadowed Primed Pressure Point on most builds at 2 status effects.

Yeah, thanks for liking my comment. I’m still not going to have a conversation with someone who suggests that 240 is only a bigger number than 165 in „most“ builds and not all builds.

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb (PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk:

See I'd rather moan about it now than have bad ideas implemented, then have to wait another 6 months to a year for them to be changed. Kuva Nukor has been out over a year now and they're just now saying they're gonna nerf it lol. But anyways i know what you mean. I've been doing that exact thing ever since i started playing wf. This dev workshop was just too much for me, and here we are. Have a good one mate.

oh dear .... those embarrassing manipulators with soup in their heads. maybe that .... or maybe that .... really now? Food can be found in the garbage can more quickly than any sense in such "contributions".

and moan has nothing to do with constructive criticism. because it's about improvements and not just chewing negative emotions like a toddler.

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1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

I’m not going to have a conversation with someone who suggests that 240 is only a bigger number than 165 in „most“ builds and not all builds.

Builds for Exodia Contagion don't use Condition Overload. Get your head out of the sand bud. 99.99% of builds still qualifies as "most" when talking about this mod's usage.

Edited by Voltage
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1 hour ago, LillyRaccune said:

DE is sabotaging their franchise by not rewarding long-term and veteran players. I also agree that putting this new mod/arcane slot behind an artifical grind wall is a foolish mistake. Maybe if it was a single purchase, like the Helminth Segment, I wouldn't mind. But being forced to grind or buy a weapon exilus adaptor and a weapon arcane adaptor, for the sole purpose of making one gun less bad, is not incentive for me to continue playing or giving DE any more money.

We will have to see if DE makes a logical decision about the future of this game.

I have just spent the last hour reading all this thread, why, because it affects me personally.  I have appx 6k hours in WF and this one could really be a kill-all.  What LillyRaccune say here is exactly right and we have been trying for years to get DE to see what they are doing to our beloved Warframe.. new players dont give a crap, they play, they dont its whatever .. only the long term players like those discussing this thread care.  Again why.. because we have a heavily invested interest in this game, more than most others.

(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk original post say everything that DE NEEDS to hear!  But unfortunately DE never listen to us, as we are vocal but a small part of a wider player base, yes we keep the game alive and we play it and we find the bugs and we play through the new content bugs and terrible stuff before DE fixes it and then the rest of the playerbase cruise through it.  And WE are the long time players!  

Even the Tenno's who are disagreeing on this thread are here for a reason, they care about what this could mean.  This "update nerf - buff" if it goes ahead is a massive issue that DE are just failing to understand the potential fallout from this and from my view DE are still making the same mistake over and over again.. they dont fix the source of THEIR problems, they bandaid everything then when the crap hits the fan, they cant peel all those bandaids off because its the only thing holding it together.  If DE spent sometime fixing some of the basic issues in their major releases like the Open World issues and bugs thats have been there for years and now ignored, instead of doing things like this with the guns, parazons etc.

I farmed SE because of Kuva.. the only way to get enough to roll my 180 rivens to get what I wanted, but its never enough (slot-machine), that farm was removed, so I went back to Kuva Requiem Survival, because the rest of the Kuva farms are hopeless.  Lately its back to Tridolons with a couple of my clannies because we are interested in improving different performances of our squad.. But when we see a Hyrdolyst 50 meters in the air that is unkillable for 5 mins .. ahh POE has been around how many years now!!  I think DE again just don't give a crap about these types of issues.. 

Its now the same with nerfs to melee and so-called buffs that arent buffs to guns to force players to play the game the way they want us to.. Ahh I want to play WF my way.. just let me! ..If I want to take guns and kill with them, let me, if I want to be a slasher ninja, let me, a nuker, let me.. what harm does it do.. none!  I want to enjoy WF and to do that I need to be able to play it how I want.   

This stupid buff-that-isnt-buff to guns is just dumb, farm arcanes to make guns perform better ???  .. WTF are you thinking just fix the guns if thats your primary concern ..  but why is this aimed at higher level players I wonder ..  it all its gated behind SP and we need to use the SE to allow us to upgrade the guns so we can get balances weapons OMG really .. Is this now the best DE has to offer..

And the parazon, oh dear .. hah enough said about that .. I really hope and pray that DE will put atleast a few moments into thinking this through because this certainly doesnt seem like they have at all .. I hope that we are all wrong and its totally different to what has been stated already.

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Well, I hate to break it to the developer apologist out there, but the developers have already sold you down the river.

 

Quote

"We had a lot of stacked rough patches which has worn down patience"

[DE]Rebecca

372 points · 1 month ago

 

That ship has sailed, you missed the boat. The train has left the station, the sun has gone down on it, I mean the well has dried up, it's midnight on Cinderalla and Tootles lost his marbles.

A lot, I repeat, A LOT, of ROUGH PATCHES... in stacks. lmao.

Go stich it on your pillow and don't come back until something dope hits you, f it, you can take the mic home with you.

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb -AncientWarrior-:

 

This stupid buff-that-isnt-buff to guns is just dumb, farm arcanes to make guns perform better ???  .. WTF are you thinking just fix the guns if thats your primary concern ..  but why is this aimed at higher level players I wonder ..  it all its gated behind SP and we need to use the SE to allow us to upgrade the guns so we can get balances weapons OMG really .. Is this now the best DE has to offer..

Because Steel Path is where guns have problems. Duh.

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8 minutes ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

I have just spent the last hour reading all this thread, why, because it affects me personally.  I have appx 6k hours in WF and this one could really be a kill-all.  What LillyRaccune say here is exactly right and we have been trying for years to get DE to see what they are doing to our beloved Warframe.. new players dont give a crap, they play, they dont its whatever .. only the long term players like those discussing this thread care.  Again why.. because we have a heavily invested interest in this game, more than most others.

(PSN)JaxsonHammerkawk original post say everything that DE NEEDS to hear!  But unfortunately DE never listen to us, as we are vocal but a small part of a wider player base, yes we keep the game alive and we play it and we find the bugs and we play through the new content bugs and terrible stuff before DE fixes it and then the rest of the playerbase cruise through it.  And WE are the long time players!  

Even the Tenno's who are disagreeing on this thread are here for a reason, they care about what this could mean.  This "update nerf - buff" if it goes ahead is a massive issue that DE are just failing to understand the potential fallout from this and from my view DE are still making the same mistake over and over again.. they dont fix the source of THEIR problems, they bandaid everything then when the crap hits the fan, they cant peel all those bandaids off because its the only thing holding it together.  If DE spent sometime fixing some of the basic issues in their major releases like the Open World issues and bugs thats have been there for years and now ignored, instead of doing things like this with the guns, parazons etc.

I farmed SE because of Kuva.. the only way to get enough to roll my 180 rivens to get what I wanted, but its never enough (slot-machine), that farm was removed, so I went back to Kuva Requiem Survival, because the rest of the Kuva farms are hopeless.  Lately its back to Tridolons with a couple of my clannies because we are interested in improving different performances of our squad.. But when we see a Hyrdolyst 50 meters in the air that is unkillable for 5 mins .. ahh POE has been around how many years now!!  I think DE again just don't give a crap about these types of issues.. 

Its now the same with nerfs to melee and so-called buffs that arent buffs to guns to force players to play the game the way they want us to.. Ahh I want to play WF my way.. just let me! ..If I want to take guns and kill with them, let me, if I want to be a slasher ninja, let me, a nuker, let me.. what harm does it do.. none!  I want to enjoy WF and to do that I need to be able to play it how I want.   

This stupid buff-that-isnt-buff to guns is just dumb, farm arcanes to make guns perform better ???  .. WTF are you thinking just fix the guns if thats your primary concern ..  but why is this aimed at higher level players I wonder ..  it all its gated behind SP and we need to use the SE to allow us to upgrade the guns so we can get balances weapons OMG really .. Is this now the best DE has to offer..

And the parazon, oh dear .. hah enough said about that .. I really hope and pray that DE will put atleast a few moments into thinking this through because this certainly doesnt seem like they have at all .. I hope that we are all wrong and its totally different to what has been stated already.

Thank you so much for reading my post, and this thread. And thank you for the kind words. Everything you said was true, and well put. I'm not on here ranting because i hate DE or loathe WF, it's the complete opposite. I want this game to be great, and if that means a year of DE rebalancing guns, and fixing old bugs, without any new content drop, I would personally be all for that. But i know that doesn't make them money. It doesn't bring in new players. Which is sad, and the truth of it all. DE is a business, they employ people, they need a constant revenue stream. Which, i guess, means band aid fixes, and forgotten bugs. But i wish that weren't the case. 

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