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Oberon needs an overall buff


broken_knee

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Oberon is one of the most versatile frames, he can tank, support, cc and even do eidolons, filling basically all the roles. The problem is that he fits many roles but does all of them poorly. See, Rhino = tank, Wisp = support, Saryn, Volt... = cc. At the earlier stages he was a good frame to farm, but now that his drops are in railjack, at the stage you get him he's just useless. So here are some buffs I could think of.

Passive

His passive is pretty bad, the buffs are not enough, I suggest just increasing the stats.

1st Ability: Smite

The damage of this ability is pretty negligible and if you say "Ah, what matters is the status", you can just press his 2. What I suggest is a damage buff, increase in the amount of orbs and make it so the damage of the ability scales with the health of the enemy targeted, as if you were "draining" his life and sending it to other enemies as a projectile. The augment is really good actually, especially for eidolon hunts.

2nd Ability: Hallowed Ground

This ability is one of the strong points of Oberon, providing great cc, the only change i see myself making is increasing the status chance from 15% to 50% or so.

3rd Ability: Renewal

This ability is ok, the health regen is good, but it's not enough since the damage you receive is almost certainly higher than you heal, and does it really feel like it's healing 40 HP p/s? I wouldn't say so, and if it is then it's not doing its job properly, I'd increase it to base 80 p/s or whatever that works. You have a good synergy with his 2nd, but 200 armor is pretty negligible, I'd buff it to 500, or better, give it a straight-up damage reduction, I don't have an exact number though.

4th Ability: Reckoning

This ability would be his nuke if it wasn't so weak, armor reduction is its strong point, I'd increase it to 40% tho. There is also the health orb drop chance, but at higher levels you can't rely on that because they have to be killed by it, so a good change is to make it so enemies injured by it have 15% chance to drop a health orb because 50% is too op.

What do you guys think?

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4 hours ago, broken_knee said:

Oberon is one of the most versatile frames, he can tank, support, cc and even do eidolons, filling basically all the roles. The problem is that he fits many roles but does all of them poorly. See, Rhino = tank, Wisp = support, Saryn, Volt... = cc. At the earlier stages he was a good frame to farm, but now that his drops are in railjack, at the stage you get him he's just useless. So here are some buffs I could think of.

Passive

His passive is pretty bad, the buffs are not enough, I suggest just increasing the stats.

1st Ability: Smite

The damage of this ability is pretty negligible and if you say "Ah, what matters is the status", you can just press his 2. What I suggest is a damage buff, increase in the amount of orbs and make it so the damage of the ability scales with the health of the enemy targeted, as if you were "draining" his life and sending it to other enemies as a projectile. The augment is really good actually, especially for eidolon hunts.

It already does % hp damage, 35% hp damage to be exact

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2nd Ability: Hallowed Ground

This ability is one of the strong points of Oberon, providing great cc, the only change i see myself making is increasing the status chance from 15% to 50% or so.

Im fine with this, however due to its rapid proc nature a status of 30% might be more balanced then 50. 

Quote

3rd Ability: Renewal

This ability is ok, the health regen is good, but it's not enough since the damage you receive is almost certainly higher than you heal, and does it really feel like it's healing 40 HP p/s? I wouldn't say so, and if it is then it's not doing its job properly, I'd increase it to base 80 p/s or whatever that works. You have a good synergy with his 2nd, but 200 armor is pretty negligible, I'd buff it to 500, or better, give it a straight-up damage reduction, I don't have an exact number though.

The biggest issue with renewal is its energy drain. While stat wise its better then Wisp’s health motes, it doesnt feel better in game play due to it not also buffing hp totals, and requiring wayyyy too much energy to heal. Also, oberon is one of, if not the only, frames that gives flat bonus armor. I feel that should stay in some capacity at least

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4th Ability: Reckoning

This ability would be his nuke if it wasn't so weak, armor reduction is its strong point, I'd increase it to 40% tho. There is also the health orb drop chance, but at higher levels you can't rely on that because they have to be killed by it, so a good change is to make it so enemies injured by it have 15% chance to drop a health orb because 50% is too op.

What do you guys think?

Its armor refuction stacks additively, unlike others, so its value is Honestly fine. I also agree that it needs to mark enemies, but you wouldnt need to reduce the orb drop chance since Nezha’s 2 exists and does the same thing already

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7 hours ago, broken_knee said:

His passive is pretty bad, the buffs are not enough, I suggest just increasing the stats.

Maybe. Passive is more useful than many others. 

7 hours ago, broken_knee said:

The damage of this ability is pretty negligible and if you say "Ah, what matters is the status", you can just press his 2. What I suggest is a damage buff, increase in the amount of orbs and make it so the damage of the ability scales with the health of the enemy targeted, as if you were "draining" his life and sending it to other enemies as a projectile. The augment is really good actually, especially for eidolon hunts.

It already scales based on health. The number of orbs already scales with strength. Adding more would be ridiculous. Consider a 200% strength build already making 12 orbs. 

7 hours ago, broken_knee said:

This ability is one of the strong points of Oberon, providing great cc, the only change i see myself making is increasing the status chance from 15% to 50% or so.

Do you have any idea how fast the ground ticks? Combined with the fact that status chance scales with strength, anything beyond 20% would be insane. Maybe you should look into his augment for his 2. It's ridiculous. Considering the average Oberon build has at least 200% strength, 30% is absolutely fine with how fast it ticks. One rad stack is all you need. A 50% would mean 100% or more. That's insane considering the amount of damage it does passively and ignores statuses. The damage could maybe be buffed a tiny bit. 

7 hours ago, broken_knee said:

This ability is ok, the health regen is good, but it's not enough since the damage you receive is almost certainly higher than you heal, and does it really feel like it's healing 40 HP p/s? I wouldn't say so, and if it is then it's not doing its job properly, I'd increase it to base 80 p/s or whatever that works. You have a good synergy with his 2nd, but 200 armor is pretty negligible, I'd buff it to 500, or better, give it a straight-up damage reduction, I don't have an exact number though.

The health a second is definitely 40. At most, putting it to 50 may be reasonable. "I wouldn't say so. Even if it is, it's not doing its job" shows you are unsure on what you're talking about. 80 health would result in 160 a second average. That's better than so many other heals. It'd be absurd ESPECIALLY combined with 200 armor BASE. That takes me to your armor buff idea. NO. You obviously have no idea how armor works. Armor has diminishing returns. Lower armor numbers mean more than higher. 300 armor is already 50% Damage Mitigation. The only thing that ignores that is slash status which he ignores on his ground. An average Oberon gives 400+ armor. No frame has below 100 armor. So 500 armor. That's 62.5% Damage Mitigation as of now to even the squishiest warframe. Add the healing and that's an amazing ability. Your suggestion to make it raw mitigation is hilarious because that is what armor does. He isn't Trinity. He has a jack of all trades vibe: not a master of all trades. 500 armor BASE? That's 1100 armour MINIMUM. That's 78.5% Damage Mitigation. Now add that to Umbral Oberon. That's almost 85% Damage Mitigation to him. Right now, it's 77% to him now. That's already crazy. This ability obviously has more impact on low armor frames. In what world is an additional about 50% Damage Mitigation as of now negligible? 

7 hours ago, broken_knee said:

This ability would be his nuke if it wasn't so weak, armor reduction is its strong point, I'd increase it to 40% tho. There is also the health orb drop chance, but at higher levels you can't rely on that because they have to be killed by it, so a good change is to make it so enemies injured by it have 15% chance to drop a health orb because 50% is too op.

The armor reduction... at 250 strength, that's 75% Armor strip. Your idea would put it at 100% Armor strip. That 250 is not a hard number to achieve. Remember... he's a jack of all trades: not all master of all trades. At absolute most, a 35% base would be what he should get. At that point, a 300% build would be 100% strip. 300 requires sacrifice to get to. The health orb idea is a good one. The killing requirement seems out of place and doesn't scale well. It being on Slam would be a good idea. The 15% suggestion considering the range is a bit much. I'd say a 10% chance not scaling would be fair. That's 1 in 10 enemies. You rely on his renewal as is. 

 

In conclusion, he doesn't do all roles poorly, he does them decently. He doesn't spec into heavy healing like trin, nor does he spec into heavy Shred like Mag. What he DOES do is fulfill all roles without major focus on one. He's probably the best jack of all trades frame in the game. The buffs you suggested would make him a pro in multiple categories. We don't need more power scaling resulting in more power creep.  

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On 2021-06-20 at 10:15 PM, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

The health a second is definitely 40. At most, putting it to 50 may be reasonable. "I wouldn't say so. Even if it is, it's not doing its job" shows you are unsure on what you're talking about. 80 health would result in 160 a second average. That's better than so many other heals. It'd be absurd ESPECIALLY combined with 200 armor BASE. That takes me to your armor buff idea. NO. You obviously have no idea how armor works. Armor has diminishing returns. Lower armor numbers mean more than higher. 300 armor is already 50% Damage Mitigation. The only thing that ignores that is slash status which he ignores on his ground. An average Oberon gives 400+ armor. No frame has below 100 armor. So 500 armor. That's 62.5% Damage Mitigation as of now to even the squishiest warframe. Add the healing and that's an amazing ability. Your suggestion to make it raw mitigation is hilarious because that is what armor does. He isn't Trinity. He has a jack of all trades vibe: not a master of all trades. 500 armor BASE? That's 1100 armour MINIMUM. That's 78.5% Damage Mitigation. Now add that to Umbral Oberon. That's almost 85% Damage Mitigation to him. Right now, it's 77% to him now. That's already crazy. This ability obviously has more impact on low armor frames. In what world is an additional about 50% Damage Mitigation as of now negligible?

Bruh, this is exactly why his armor should be buffed, Wukong reaches 1500 in no trouble, I can reach 3000+ armor with Chroma which is 97% damage reduction and his survivability is still bad,1100 is nothing compared to other frames and the health restore is nothing on a crowd of enemies. All of this is on steel path btw

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On 2021-06-20 at 10:15 PM, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

It already scales based on health. The number of orbs already scales with strength. Adding more would be ridiculous. Consider a 200% strength build already making 12 orbs.

 

On 2021-06-20 at 7:16 PM, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

It already does % hp damage, 35% hp damage to be exact

Then give it more scaling because it's insignificant, tell me a single occasion you would use it, a damage buff also wouldn't hurt.

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I like the idea of increasing his 4s base stat, but what it really needs is to scale with the armor increase of Steel Path. 50% armor strip has to be cast 5 times at a huge energy cost to accommodate the 250% armor increase of steel path enemies. No other armor stripping frame has to strip 250% armor to fully strip in the steel path but oberon. This is the obvious answer to fix his 4. I'd like to see better synergies with his 2 as well though. 

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2 hours ago, (PSN)R3D3Y3D_J3D1 said:

I like the idea of increasing his 4s base stat, but what it really needs is to scale with the armor increase of Steel Path. 50% armor strip has to be cast 5 times at a huge energy cost to accommodate the 250% armor increase of steel path enemies. No other armor stripping frame has to strip 250% armor to fully strip in the steel path but oberon. This is the obvious answer to fix his 4. I'd like to see better synergies with his 2 as well though. 

That's not how it's supposed to work.

Base heavy gunner = 1000 armor. 

Oberon shreds 300.

SP Heavy Gunner = 2500 armor 

Oberon Shreds 750 armor. 

It's a PERCENTILE Shred. If it isn't working like that, then it's a bug.  By the way you're describing it, Trinity abating link would need 250% Armor Shred to take all armor. That isn't the case. 

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5 hours ago, broken_knee said:

 

Then give it more scaling because it's insignificant, tell me a single occasion you would use it, a damage buff also wouldn't hurt.

I use it on priority targets. I.E on heavy Gunners or bombards or on bursas. Enemies that are tankier than the rest. It then makes the orbs do more damage. 

"It needs to do more" WHY? Because it isn't enough for you? The fact that it scales makes it better than a TON OF other abilities. It's insignificant if you use it improperly, yes 

What do you have to say about the rest of my previous post responding to you? 

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9 hours ago, broken_knee said:

Bruh, this is exactly why his armor should be buffed, Wukong reaches 1500 in no trouble, I can reach 3000+ armor with Chroma which is 97% damage reduction and his survivability is still bad,1100 is nothing compared to other frames and the health restore is nothing on a crowd of enemies. All of this is on steel path btw

The formula for Chroma armor buff is not exactly straight forward logically. I promise you that the 400 armor stacked with Healing of 80 a second is more impactful than 1500 (like with Wukong) without 80 health a second. He applies it to EVERYONE over an unlimited range and it stacks with other things. Again, he is a jack of all trades. Wukong and Chroma are MEANT TO BE beefy and survive. Oberon does that too. It's just his is centered more around his team. Don't forget Chroma and Wukong don't have status Immunity. Slash procs ignore armors and can be an issue, but it isn't for Oberon. Oberon also has strong CC in his radiation. Wukong and Chroma don't have that same level. You're comparing Apples to oranges here. If your whole point here is that he needs a buff because he isn't performing well on SP, I think that shows two things.

1) If highlights that DE didn't make steel path for every frame . 

2) You're saying a frame should be buffed because his performance is not like other frames in 5% of the game's content.

Each frame has a place they specialize more than other areas. SP may just not be for Oberon. He doesn't need to excel everywhere. Your outlandish buff ideas would make him slightly more viable in SP, yes, but it would push him far over the edge in all other content. Just because the tip of the iceberg is melting doesn't mean you should be intervening. DE did not male SP with the intent of it being a place where you go in with anything and do well. It was made to challenge your ability to adapt. 

With all that said, a decent buff for Oberon would be that renewal increases your maximum health a bit scaling with strength and the frame's Armor. This would mean frames with lower armor would get more max health from the ability. Why? Because it would give more impact to those frames with lower health pools. It would mean they get more effective health from the ability to give them more survivability. Issue is... it would take a bit of time to find a healthy balance on that. It depends on DE would want it to be an equalizer ability. 

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On 2021-06-24 at 6:30 PM, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

That's not how it's supposed to work.

Base heavy gunner = 1000 armor. 

Oberon shreds 300.

SP Heavy Gunner = 2500 armor 

Oberon Shreds 750 armor. 

It's a PERCENTILE Shred. If it isn't working like that, then it's a bug.  By the way you're describing it, Trinity abating link would need 250% Armor Shred to take all armor. That isn't the case. 

Its not a bug as much as a armor distinction. Oberons 4+2 combo shreds %Base armor. Because the Steelpath armor is valued as a base armor value but gamewise considered additional armor, it acts fine for every other armor stripping except oberon and shattering impact. 

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On 2021-06-26 at 3:57 AM, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Its not a bug as much as a armor distinction. Oberons 4+2 combo shreds %Base armor. Because the Steelpath armor is valued as a base armor value but gamewise considered additional armor, it acts fine for every other armor stripping except oberon and shattering impact. 

Actually i believe shattering impact works fine, it's just Oberon's 4 that is bugged with the interaction for some reason

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On 2021-06-24 at 9:51 PM, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

The formula for Chroma armor buff is not exactly straight forward logically. I promise you that the 400 armor stacked with Healing of 80 a second is more impactful than 1500 (like with Wukong) without 80 health a second. He applies it to EVERYONE over an unlimited range and it stacks with other things. Again, he is a jack of all trades. Wukong and Chroma are MEANT TO BE beefy and survive. Oberon does that too. It's just his is centered more around his team. Don't forget Chroma and Wukong don't have status Immunity. Slash procs ignore armors and can be an issue, but it isn't for Oberon. Oberon also has strong CC in his radiation. Wukong and Chroma don't have that same level. You're comparing Apples to oranges here. If your whole point here is that he needs a buff because he isn't performing well on SP, I think that shows two things.

1) If highlights that DE didn't make steel path for every frame . 

2) You're saying a frame should be buffed because his performance is not like other frames in 5% of the game's content.

Each frame has a place they specialize more than other areas. SP may just not be for Oberon. He doesn't need to excel everywhere. Your outlandish buff ideas would make him slightly more viable in SP, yes, but it would push him far over the edge in all other content. Just because the tip of the iceberg is melting doesn't mean you should be intervening. DE did not male SP with the intent of it being a place where you go in with anything and do well. It was made to challenge your ability to adapt. 

With all that said, a decent buff for Oberon would be that renewal increases your maximum health a bit scaling with strength and the frame's Armor. This would mean frames with lower armor would get more max health from the ability. Why? Because it would give more impact to those frames with lower health pools. It would mean they get more effective health from the ability to give them more survivability. Issue is... it would take a bit of time to find a healthy balance on that. It depends on DE would want it to be an equalizer ability. 

I'm just saying that I use Oberon on Steel Path all of the time. Even with his fourth replaced with Rhino's roar and smite infusion's augment, I have enough healing with Phoenix Renewal and damage (which will only be increased with the new galvanized mods) that I shred through enemies before they can burst me down. Status immunity is so huge for bosses and endgame modes that Oberon is my go to pick along with Nova, Wisp, and Khora (for obvious reasons).
 

The only real issue that Oberon has is that he needs a lot of mods so you can't slot everything, his augments are too good, and his abilities are insanely energy hungry, even if you have Hunter's Adrenaline running and facetank everything. If they buffed his base energy or lowered some of his costs (or released Primed Streamline from the Chinese version), it'd be an incredible buff. His passive is pretty dog poo though.

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4 hours ago, ThatsSoWitty said:

I'm just saying that I use Oberon on Steel Path all of the time. Even with his fourth replaced with Rhino's roar and smite infusion's augment, I have enough healing with Phoenix Renewal and damage (which will only be increased with the new galvanized mods) that I shred through enemies before they can burst me down. Status immunity is so huge for bosses and endgame modes that Oberon is my go to pick along with Nova, Wisp, and Khora (for obvious reasons).
 

The only real issue that Oberon has is that he needs a lot of mods so you can't slot everything, his augments are too good, and his abilities are insanely energy hungry, even if you have Hunter's Adrenaline running and facetank everything. If they buffed his base energy or lowered some of his costs (or released Primed Streamline from the Chinese version), it'd be an incredible buff. His passive is pretty dog poo though.

I usually have no energy issues with him. His passive is at least better than Frost passive. One free pet revive is convenient and they become tankier. Tbh, if it doesn't apply to sentinels already, it should. 

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