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Isn't it simple?


EnwoQ
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How to improve modding
My thinking, why is there only one stat on most mods?
Serration 165%

If you want to compete for that modding space you need the same but higher value.

Solution: (just an example)
Serration 1: 165%dmg, 20%reload
Serration 2: 165%dmg, 50%magazin
Serration 3: 165%dmg, 60%
projection speed
Amalgam Serration (4): 155%, movement speed

Naturally those can't be stacked
Further we see DE actually did Amalgam which is that ideology.

To introduce that would be a power creep, but now it's the perfect timing because you wanted to buff guns right?

I know it makes everything complicated and is in essential making every mod a riven mod, and takes freedom

But DE and some of the community want it unnecessary complicated and wasteful.

Edit: sidenote personally wonder why there is still no 90%viral mod and so on

Edit2:how to improve single target guns, make shred good by x10 all value, then we can mod for straight line aoe, and with the above addition, we could build single target for line aoe or spread (also an idea to add mirage effect on a mod but with 45% angle)

Edit3: why diff between shotguns and rifle, make more sense to diff between grende/explosion weapons and not

Edit4:suggestion make the "multi stat" mods all mr15 req, and drop on steel path only instead of those bronze mods with double chance of a joke
This will balance it around "high level" content and give those after Mr 15 more to think about

Edit 5:yeah it maybe make all existing gun mods useless, but ig new content for Mr 15 and above

Edit6 how about adding negativ drain mod as a concept (which adds mod capacity as main bonus and maybe something else QoL stat or so)

Edit6.1 negativ drain mods would also help with leveling of weapons without leeching

Edit7:just a funny thought which is an overkill and the maximum
Add for mr31 (legend ranks) new "rivens" which can stacked meaning you can mod everything how you like on that gun, based on rng kuva rolls lol
The most painful min max attempt of an endgame lol

Edit.7.1 those mr31 mods, not tradeable

Edit 7.2 with a timegate of aquistion, getting random weapon and random stats, kuva ressources and limited inventory space for those which you need 9 of (exilus slots too lol) I think that end game will take over 20 years to even get 2 perfect weapons lol

Edit.7.3 with new weapons added it will get restarted, like said not meant seriously but a funny thought for the elite of the elite who wants to bleed and suffer

Edited by EnwoQ
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Well, there are 2 resources being balanced here: mod slots, and mod capacity.  From most of the mods we've seen released so far, it does seem like DE is rather hesitant to release direct replacement mods (like what Quickening and Gladiator Vice is to Fury).  While Amalgam, Corrupted and Set mods are a welcome addition, they need to be carefully designed and balanced so as to not easily deprecate other mods.

As we currently seem to have a surplus of capacity (I have 19 free capacity on my Potato'd, Rank 40 Kuva Nukor), I think some more Amalgam-like mods might be good.  But they need to both reduce the core bonus and drastically increase the capacity cost to maintain some sense of balance and make users choose between what they prefer.

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58 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

I'd rather get a utility mod slot or allow the exilus slot to equip all utility mods.

Honestly, IMO, the Exilus mod slot was a mistake. 

Just like with Crit mods, some Exilus mods give certain weapons absurd value while being essentially worthless on others. 

Ammo Mutation is worthless on most weapons, but it is mandatory on the Kuva Bramma. It only takes up a Exilus Slot, so it doesn't need to sacrifice any direct damage mods.

Contrast this with Ammo Stock on the Exergis. A 2nd follow up shot is invaluable against Shield Gating, but Ammo Stock isn't an Exilus mod and probably shouldn't be.

The issue with modding is the abundance of damage multipliers that stack multiplicatively with one another. The end goal in modding is to cram as many damage multipliers 8 slots will give you.

The choice between an entire multiplier and QoL isn't a choice at all.

If giving up a multiplier drops your damage by 50%, no sane player will do it. An enemy that should have taken half a clip would suddenly take a full mag.

If more damage mods were additive and dropping one just dropped your damage by 20%, then maybe players would consider QoL.

Warframe's damage system is needlessly complicated with enemy armor scaling and ridiculous variety of damage multipliers players can cram. (Base Damage, Elemental Damage, Critical Damage, Faction Damage, Head-shot damage, Finisher Damage, Stance Multipliers / Multi-shot, Fire Rate / Attack Speed.)

Warframe has more damage multipliers than weapons have mod slots.

Something like Genshin Impact only has Base Attack, Atk%, +DMG% and Crit, with +DMG% being super conditional.

 

 

 

Edited by DealerOfAbsolutes
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17 minutes ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Honestly, IMO, the Exilus mod slot was a mistake. 

Just like with Crit mods, some Exilus mods give certain weapons absurd value while being essentially worthless on others. 

Ammo Mutation is worthless on most weapons, but it is mandatory on the Kuva Bramma. It only takes up a Exilus Slot, so it doesn't need to sacrifice any direct damage mods.

Contrast this with Ammo Stock on the Exergis. A 2nd follow up shot is invaluable against Shield Gating, but Ammo Stock isn't an Exilus mod and probably shouldn't be.

The issue with modding is the abundance of damage multipliers that stack multiplicatively with one another. The end goal in modding is to cram as many damage multipliers 8 slots will give you.

The choice between an entire multiplier and QoL isn't a choice at all.

If giving up a multiplier drops your damage by 50%, no sane player will do it. An enemy that should have taken half a clip would suddenly take a full mag.

If more damage mods were additive and dropping one just dropped your damage by 20%, then maybe players would consider QoL.

Warframe's damage system is needlessly complicated with enemy armor scaling and ridiculous variety of damage multipliers players can cram. (Base Damage, Elemental Damage, Critical Damage, Faction Damage, Head-shot damage, Finisher Damage, Stance Multipliers / Multi-shot, Fire Rate / Attack Speed.)

Warframe has more damage multipliers than weapons have mod slots.

Something like Genshin Impact only has Base Attack, Atk%, +DMG% and Crit, with +DMG% being super conditional.

 

 

 

Of course it isn't a choice. But is will be a choice if you have a separate slot for it.

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no, it's not simple. if it was, it wouldn't still be an issue all these years later.

I still maintain that a weapon's raw damage should have been tied to levelling, and at rank 30 it would be at it's peak, including mandatory damage mods (as if all damage mods like Serration etc were already equipped). then mods would be a question of what elements do you want, do you want more reserve ammo, reload speed etc.. mostly utility stuff that only affects sustained DPS indirectly. there would be more build diversity that way. probably too late to put in a system like this now of course.

 

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The real issue is that mods work in such a way that benefits stronger weapons more than weaker ones, in such a way that gets more and more apparent the stronger weapons are.

On that level, the modding system is fundamentally flawed and exacerbates the power gap between weapons.

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4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

The real issue is that mods work in such a way that benefits stronger weapons more than weaker ones, in such a way that gets more and more apparent the stronger weapons are.

On that level, the modding system is fundamentally flawed and exacerbates the power gap between weapons.

With Critical damage being the biggest offender.

Multishot, +Damage and elementals all scale a fixed % of base. 

The gap between good and bad weapons doesn't change when they both have these mods equipped.

Critical damage on the other hand scales independently based on Crit stats. For some weapons, it isn't worth stacking, but for those that are worth it, it's an extra damage multiplier to work with with 0 drawbacks.

The Cri-t-pples have to work with less desirable fire rate and faction damage as alternative multipliers which actually come with legitimate draw backs. 

Then their are weapons with innate AOE.

It's also dumb that Ammo Mutation is considered an Exilus mod when things like the Bramma exist. Getting rid of a weapons weakness without sacrificing a damage slot.

By that logic, not having AOE is a weakness, thus punch-through and Acid Shells should be Exilus mods too.

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Modding variety is basically dead on weapons, but where is modding variety alive and well?  On Warframes.  Why is that?  It's because Warframe modding affects more than just damage output.  It's your survivability, it's your CC, it's your energy sustain, it's the exact way that you'll interface with your entire kit.  You can't get everything you want, so you decide where to have the most strength, the least, etc.

But with weapons, it's all just DPS.  Pretty much every mod can be turned into a variable in a DPS calculation, and DPS is the only goal.  If there's only one goal, then yes, builds are going to be very samey.

That said, modding weapons is fine the way it is, because modding weapons doesn't need to be interesting.

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10 hours ago, EnwoQ said:


Solution: (just an example)
Serration 1: 165%dmg, 20%reload
Serration 2: 165%dmg, 50%magazin
Serration 3: 165%dmg, 60%
projection speed
Amalgam Serration (4): 155%, movement speed
 

Here is your problem. Amalgam offers something else while slightly reducing the overall dmg.

Yours Serrations can in theory be split into two mods. Imagine one extra mini slot. You would fit classic Serration in normal slot and one of the options in mini slot.
But that is actually possible, just put Reload/magazine/projectile speed mod in one of the normal slots today... but wait ... that means you will lose one precious slot that could be use for something like elemental dmg. Basically you will lose dmg for some utility.

At the end, your "options" will lead us to where we are now, but with one more "mini" slot.  Thing that was suggested many times before, some kind of utility slot, which lead us to Weapon Exilus slot that is in game right now.

Edited by Mover-NeRo
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vor einer Stunde schrieb EnwoQ:

1st case
On hit

Single target gun (faster firerate, no aoe)
3 sec- 12shots on one enemy- 12 trigger of buff

Aoe gun (slow firerate, aoe)
3sec - 2 shots on multiple enemies around 6, - 12 trigger of buff

2nd case
On kill
Single target gun
3sec - 12 shots on one enemy - 0 trigger

Aoe gun
3sec - 2 shots rest same as above--6triggers

3rd case
You can't kill fast enough with on hit

Single target gun
You kill faster because buff
Aoe gun
You kill faster because buff

4th case
You can't kill fast enough with on kill

Single target gun
Nothing
Aoe gun
Nothing

was probably designed by the same people who created deimos arcanes ... these things are for April 1st!
how can this be serious at all? I haven't read everything in patch notes and stopped at the point: where devs want to switch a mod with "on crit hit" to "on kill". like in kindergarten!
it is clear that this cannot work at all. how about 90% of the weapons not becoming absolute garbage?

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Wait wait wait you mean the new galvanized mods ?

its 20 sec ( some of them 30 ) timer of course you can't just run around before it expires you will lose it even trying to not lose the buff.

but its not like the conditions for it are extremely hard its just a little conditional buff to the actual thing.

Edited by trunks013
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4 minutes ago, EnwoQ said:

Want to Alt tab to change music? Nope or you will lose buffs
 

Aside from the fact i dont follow news on warframe and thx to you now i know why i dont like new update even before it landed

I just want to say about what i quoted from your post

Google > Autohotkey change songs
Google > Autohotkey bind combo mouse buttons

Or if you are lazy

 

Spoiler

$XButton1::F13
$XButton2::F14

Target := "ahk_class Winamp v5.x"

; ---- ---- Winamp: Volume Down ---- ---- (F4)
~XButton1 & wheeldown::
DetectHiddenWindows, On ; Tells AHK to search for windows that are minimized/hidden

Target := "ahk_class Winamp v1.x"
IfWinNotExist %Target% 
{
Return
}
ControlSend, ahk_parent, {down}
return

; ---- ---- Winamp: Volume Up ---- ---- (F5)
~XButton1 & wheelup::
DetectHiddenWindows, On ; Tells AHK to search for windows that are minimized/hidden

Target := "ahk_class Winamp v1.x"
IfWinNotExist %Target% 
{
Return
}
ControlSend, ahk_parent, {up}
return

~Xbutton1 & Lbutton::
send {Media_Next}
return


~Xbutton1 & Rbutton::
Send {Media_Prev}
return

~Xbutton1 & Mbutton::
send {Media_Play_Pause}
return

~rctrl & rshift::reload


OR

 

Spoiler

#SingleInstance force ;If this script is already running, terminate it and load a new instance
#IfWinActive, ahk_class WarframePublicEvolutionGfxD3D11
;#IfWinActive, ahk_class Digital ExtremesEvolutionGfxD3D

; REMOVE ; MARK FROM ONE OF ABOVE LINES DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU USE TO RUN WARFRAM
; IFWINACTIVE MAKES SO HOTKEYS WORKS ONLY IF THAT WINDOW IS ACTIVE
; LEAVE ONLY ONE LINE WITHOUT ; MARK OTHER LINE NEEDS TO HAVE IT


Target := "ahk_class Winamp v5.x"
; ---- ---- Winamp: Volume Down ---- ---- (F4)
F4::
DetectHiddenWindows, On ; Tells AHK to search for windows that are minimized/hidden

Target := "ahk_class Winamp v1.x"
IfWinNotExist %Target% 
{
Return
}
ControlSend, ahk_parent, {down}
return

; ---- ---- Winamp: Volume Up ---- ---- (F5)
F5::
DetectHiddenWindows, On ; Tells AHK to search for windows that are minimized/hidden

Target := "ahk_class Winamp v1.x"
IfWinNotExist %Target% 
{
Return
}
ControlSend, ahk_parent, {up}
return

F1::
send {Media_Prev}
return

F2::
send {F3}{Media_Next}
return

F3::
send {Media_Play_Pause}
return


 

In both cases it should work for any media source i use it for winamp but somehow it works just fine for youtube or other media players
Have fun

BTW i bind my side mouse buttons so that when i hold the one closer to my hand and press LMB its next track same button and RMB is previouse
And same button with middle mouse button is play pause

Also if you want to hold other button change Xbutton1 to Xbutton2 save reload and ur set

This is not directly to you but to any1 who could find it useful

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1 hour ago, Flyshlee said:

Remove Base Damage Mods. All of them. 

My take:

Make Critical Damage and Viral procs additive with Base Damage.

Remove the headshot multiplier and replace it with +100% Flat Critical Chance on headshot.

Multi-shot mods now have equivocal -%accuracy to +%multi-shot ala Split Flights.

Remove enemy armor scaling.

IPS bonuses increased from +50% to +75%, with all negatives removed.

Combined elemental bonuses decreased from +75% to +50%.

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En 21/6/2021 a las 7:43, Loza03 dijo:

On that level, the modding system is fundamentally flawed and exacerbates the power gap between weapons.

This is completely correct.

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As it is now, only rivens require mastery rank, and not more than 16. So basically any tenno can be demigod at mastery rank 8, in what concerns to modding, which sounds completely insane. Mods dropped in SP and Arbitrations should have mastery rank requirement, our mastery rank should mean more than the amount of stuff ranked up, should be a tool for the devs in order to restrict access to power creep. 

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