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Suggested changes to Ash


Atlas_II

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Some suggestions for changes to Ash's kit;

 

His 1 SHURIKEN: should be left as is, simple ranged damage able to be augmented to be an alright armor strip.

His 2 SMOKE SCREEN: should be left as is, invisibility (which is very strong) with a pretty low base duration.

His 3 TELEPORT: changed to a free targeted teleport that, in a small aoe around the area where you teleport to, staggers enemies and opens them up to finishers.

His 4 BLADE STORM: changed to be a single button press ability that automatically targets all enemies in a certain range and initiates the animation and damage automatically. Scales in damage based on combo multiplier and on use consumes a portion of current melee combo multiplier.

 

The gameplay loop here being, use Ash's abilities and a melee weapon to build your combo counter then make your way to a group of enemies and use your 4 to deal heavy damage and lots of bleed procs (making use of Ash's passive) and expending a portion of your combo multiplier, repeat. This gives Ash a mechanical identity and a repeating gameplay loop within missions. Blade storm is currently fairly slow and clunky with multiple steps on top of an already lengthy animation before the damage is done. The change would technically allow his 4 to be "spammable" as its now a single button press ability, but would be most effective only if you re-accumulate combo counters before use making its most effective use case not spamming.

Teleport is currently mostly useless, making it a free targeted mobility option would allow it to be used more regularly, would make Ash a more mobile frame, while maintaining any mechanical synergies that the ability currently has.

 

I think these changes would make Ash stronger, more fun, and more cohesive, giving him a healthy and unique gameplay identity.

Final note, I wanted to describe changes in the simplest terms that would have the biggest impact. There are lots of finer details that could use adjusting, but this is the idea in terms of gameplay. Less is more.

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50 minutes ago, Atlas_II said:

Some suggestions for changes to Ash's kit;

 

His 1 SHURIKEN: should be left as is, simple ranged damage able to be augmented to be an alright armor strip.

His 2 SMOKE SCREEN: should be left as is, invisibility (which is very strong) with a pretty low base duration.

His 3 TELEPORT: changed to a free targeted teleport that, in a small aoe around the area where you teleport to, staggers enemies and opens them up to finishers.

His 4 BLADE STORM: changed to be a single button press ability that automatically targets all enemies in a certain range and initiates the animation and damage automatically. Scales in damage based on combo multiplier and on use consumes a portion of current melee combo multiplier.

 

The gameplay loop here being, use Ash's abilities and a melee weapon to build your combo counter then make your way to a group of enemies and use your 4 to deal heavy damage and lots of bleed procs (making use of Ash's passive) and expending a portion of your combo multiplier, repeat. This gives Ash a mechanical identity and a repeating gameplay loop within missions. Blade storm is currently fairly slow and clunky with multiple steps on top of an already lengthy animation before the damage is done. The change would technically allow his 4 to be "spammable" as its now a single button press ability, but would be most effective only if you re-accumulate combo counters before use making its most effective use case not spamming.

Teleport is currently mostly useless, making it a free targeted mobility option would allow it to be used more regularly, would make Ash a more mobile frame, while maintaining any mechanical synergies that the ability currently has.

 

I think these changes would make Ash stronger, more fun, and more cohesive, giving him a healthy and unique gameplay identity.

I dont play Ash never did only ranked to 30

But i always felt Ash was missed opportunity with another warframe to wield secondary weapons as exalted weapon

Like imagine if Ash ult FOR EXAMPLE was having exalted weapon like kunai, spira and/or hikou which he could cycle trough where each of them would have different advantage or something idk

But since we have hikou sipra and kunai it makes less sense to even do it but i always felt he should have something like that 

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4 hours ago, Atlas_II said:

His 1 SHURIKEN: should be left as is, simple ranged damage able to be augmented to be an alright armor strip.

IMO you shouldn't have to really on an augment for an ability to be useful at higher levels: armor strip should already be worked into Shuriken, the Augment could instead be made to increase the number of shurikens or add AoE on impact in exchange for a portion of damage, then the player can decide if they want to add a little CC to their Shurikens.

4 hours ago, Atlas_II said:

His 2 SMOKE SCREEN: should be left as is, invisibility (which is very strong) with a pretty low base duration.

keep the duration low as you say, but IMO the Smoke cloud left behind should linger a round, keeping enemies blind and disoriented, perhaps also leaving them open to finishers. perhaps holding the ability could make ash throw the bomb at enemies for some directed CC, and if the player runs into the smoke, his invis kicks in.

4 hours ago, Atlas_II said:

His 3 TELEPORT: changed to a free targeted teleport that, in a small aoe around the area where you teleport to, staggers enemies and opens them up to finishers.

Teleport is OK, but clunky to use under pressure sometimes. I'd like it if it simply warped to the nearest enemy within Ash's Line of Sight. Ash would hit them with a fancy spinning kick to stagger them, and pressing melee performs a finisher. 

4 hours ago, Atlas_II said:

His 4 BLADE STORM: changed to be a single button press ability that automatically targets all enemies in a certain range and initiates the animation and damage automatically. Scales in damage based on combo multiplier and on use consumes a portion of current melee combo multiplier.

oof. maybe you weren't around before Bladestorm was reworked, but I was, and it was horrible. boring as hell to play as because the ability was just a cutscene that killed people. even more boring when the Ash is somebody else because they can wipe the room before you even line up a shot or start meleeing. my ideal version of Bladestorm would be this:

- when active, Ash unsheathes his Wrist Blades (Ash had Wrist Blades long before Parazon was a thing) and creates two Shadow Clones that seek out and attack enemies. the player, as Ash, can run up to enemies and attack them with his hidden blades,  (ideally with cool, unique executions if an enemy is killed)but can also throw Shurikens and Smoke Bombs at reduced energy cost. Blade Storm is now essentially an exalted mode that drains energy over time. it allows the player to clear the room somewhat quickly, but still requires a good level of engagement, without worrying about a clumsy targeting system either.

giving Ash a little more CC potential and making Bladestorm less clunky to use would make him perfect IMO.

 

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hace 20 horas, Atlas_II dijo:

Some suggestions for changes to Ash's kit;

 

His 1 SHURIKEN: should be left as is, simple ranged damage able to be augmented to be an alright armor strip.

His 2 SMOKE SCREEN: should be left as is, invisibility (which is very strong) with a pretty low base duration.

His 3 TELEPORT: changed to a free targeted teleport that, in a small aoe around the area where you teleport to, staggers enemies and opens them up to finishers.

His 4 BLADE STORM: changed to be a single button press ability that automatically targets all enemies in a certain range and initiates the animation and damage automatically. Scales in damage based on combo multiplier and on use consumes a portion of current melee combo multiplier.

 

The gameplay loop here being, use Ash's abilities and a melee weapon to build your combo counter then make your way to a group of enemies and use your 4 to deal heavy damage and lots of bleed procs (making use of Ash's passive) and expending a portion of your combo multiplier, repeat. This gives Ash a mechanical identity and a repeating gameplay loop within missions. Blade storm is currently fairly slow and clunky with multiple steps on top of an already lengthy animation before the damage is done. The change would technically allow his 4 to be "spammable" as its now a single button press ability, but would be most effective only if you re-accumulate combo counters before use making its most effective use case not spamming.

Teleport is currently mostly useless, making it a free targeted mobility option would allow it to be used more regularly, would make Ash a more mobile frame, while maintaining any mechanical synergies that the ability currently has.

 

I think these changes would make Ash stronger, more fun, and more cohesive, giving him a healthy and unique gameplay identity.

Final note, I wanted to describe changes in the simplest terms that would have the biggest impact. There are lots of finer details that could use adjusting, but this is the idea in terms of gameplay. Less is more.

as long as fatal teleport gets untouched, go for it.

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On 2021-06-21 at 10:57 PM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

-snip-

Yes I agree, you shouldn`t have to rely on an augment to make an ability better however ss should not be a part of his 1 the one should be better, as for ss I would make it able to strip enemies defences which means it can be used against corpus.

As for the old bs besides the two issues it had that version is way better than the current one imo, plus the current bs has over 10  issues, some minor and some problematic.

 

Here is a list of his issues.

Spoiler

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

·       Because of the synergy between his 2nd & 4th ability, you are forced to mod for duration to benefit from using less energy for bs since most people are not going to use bs while it`s taking more energy.

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

·       Because of the way it works, it makes shuriken not favoured in use due to the amount of energy bs costs when modding and how much damage it does and how quick enemies will be killed when activated. This make some people use bs over shuriken.

·       The marking mechanic makes the ability ineffective in close-quarter, tight spaces which is what  the majority of the tilesets are, this makes the ability less effective and mostly useless even more so it a team.

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

 

And here is a stat people can`t argue.

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