The Arsenal Divide: Changes & Follow Ups

[-Augustus-]

10 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

"getting instantly thrown on Ignore or put on hold for fifteen minutes" have been my consistent *results* when trying to buy things via listings on Warframe.market.

Are you trying to haggle with people, despite WFM clearly stating the posted price is take it or leave it? Because yeah, nobody's got time for that.

If you like the posted price, paste the text and ask to buy. If you don't like it, go on your way. Trade chat is where you can waste time haggling to your little heart's content. Shockingly, a bunch of us just want to see what's on offer, clear, no-haggle prices, and close deals as quickly as possible.

[EmberStar]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Ive sold 4 syndicate mods for 10plat a peice (and to get sybdicate mods, i can play whatever mission i like)

With the 40 plat, i bought a Primed Cryo Rounds mod that i can only get by playing void fissures. For the sake if the example, ill pretend i h8 doing void fissure.

So i used a gamemode i liked to get mods from something i disliked. 

 

It's derailing the thread, but the part of this equation that I dislike is "the Warframe trading system."  I'm not going to go into detail, because I'm not a skilled enough writer to articulate it properly and I have better things to do than have my poorly expressed complaints nitpicked apart by people who are gleefully ignoring the point.  I have ZERO interest in selling anything to other players, ever.  Not using in-game chat, not using third party sites.  Not even with green eggs and ham.  If I have an hour to play Warframe (which is becoming an increasingly rare event as real life wants to deeply impress on me that I'm a powerless nothing and that rent isn't free) then I want to spend it PLAYING WARFRAME.  Not sitting in my orbiter or solo dojo trying to trade for something using a trading system that is *deliberately* designed to be awful.

[(PSN)grunge788]

My drop rate on arbitration is boarderline broken. I do 1 hour and no vitus essence my friend does 1 hour and gets 100s of vitus essence. Me and same friend play together and we get so little vitus essence he refuses to do them with me anymore.

[EmberStar]

1 minute ago, -Augustus- said:

Are you trying to haggle with people, despite WFM clearly stating the posted price is take it or leave it? Because yeah, nobody's got time for that.

If you like the posted price, paste the text and ask to buy. If you don't like it, go on your way. Trade chat is where you can waste time haggling to your little heart's content. Shockingly, a bunch of us just want to see what's on offer, clear, no-haggle prices, and close deals as quickly as possible.

No, that's using the copy-paste message and the stated price.  I can't guess why other people do what they do.  Maybe they already sold it.  Maybe they forgot they were still listed as "online" and hitting "ignore" is less keypresses than, you know, typing out an explanation.  Maybe they just don't freaking care.  I don't know.  And since they instantly ignored me, I'm not really able to ask them, even if I cared (which I don't) and they were willing to explain (and they clearly aren't.)

[Ayrovell]

did I miss the part which "on kill" is removed/replaced?

I mean that's what a whole lot of people are crying about in the original thread, no way it is not addressed at all right?

[(PSN)RWalls91]

Wow you guys just keep missing the point. OK fairs fair you moved range mods to the exilus, and you lowered the costs of some of the mods. But moving them to arbitration so players can claim them before steel path? I'm sorry what?

First steel path and arbitration unlock at the same time.

Secondly this means now players must grind in arbitration which is a endurance game mode with a time gated mission type compared to steel path which is pick and choose.

But most importantly you want players to aquire ON KILL mods from arbitration to make their guns capable of doing steel path? If the guns can kill on steel path they don't need the mods from arbitrations, and if the guns can't kill then the mods won't help!

You're completely missing the point and are only going to encourage a smaller more focused meta on the already meta weapons. You aren't increasing choice, you're limiting it. Following these melee nerfs and huge gun buffs all you are saying is go around with a nukor that chains less but has extra damage and multishot.

As I already said in the previous thread you are 'attempting to fix a problem you created by making it worse'.

Here's a link to my post in case you missed it:

 

[-Augustus-]

1 minute ago, EmberStar said:

No, that's using the copy-paste message and the stated price.  I can't guess why other people do what they do.  Maybe they already sold it.  Maybe they forgot they were still listed as "online" and hitting "ignore" is less keypresses than, you know, typing out an explanation.  Maybe they just don't freaking care.  I don't know.  And since they instantly ignored me, I'm not really able to ask them, even if I cared (which I don't) and they were willing to explain (and they clearly aren't.)

Once in a blue moon, I get, but consistently has me scratching my head. I use WFM whenever I'm bored of bad RNG (so pretty often, WF being how it is) and 7 times out of 10, I pick the lowest WTS entry for whatever I want, paste the text, and have what I need a few minutes later. Sometimes they're not actually online or 'sorry, just sold it' comes back, but the only time I've ever gotten ignored/otherwise had a bad experience was when selling stuff and would-be buyers didn't want to just accept a "thanks for the offer, but its the listed price" response.

[Nocxia]

Please don't put the mods on just arbitrations, put them in the SP shop too. I understand why ya'll are doing this, but the acquisition rate of vitus is abysmal for the work you have to put in. Earning vitus essence feels like pulling teeth some days - I ended up buying Grendel cause i just couldn't take it ><.

[Zendadaist]

With more and more stuff being added to Arbitrations, can we have an actual choice of Arbitration mission? Like have 3 different missions up at once. You can only complete one of them (the other 2 lock out until the hourly refresh) but it would at least give us some choice...

[EmberStar]

1 minute ago, -Augustus- said:

Once in a blue moon, I get, but consistently has me scratching my head. I use WFM whenever I'm bored of bad RNG (so pretty often, WF being how it is) and 7 times out of 10, I pick the lowest WTS entry for whatever I want, paste the text, and have what I need a few minutes later. Sometimes they're not actually online or 'sorry, just sold it' comes back, but the only time I've ever gotten ignored/otherwise had a bad experience was when selling stuff and would-be buyers didn't want to just accept a "thanks for the offer, but its the listed price" response.

No idea why it happens.  Except that a friend of mine pointed out that I seem to have a weird anti-super power, where somehow I seem to have the ability to magnetically attract complete psychos online.  I have the ability to receive whispers disabled in most games, because I've had blind tells from nowhere telling me (in no particular order)

That my build is complete garbage for a healer, and that I'll be instantly kicked from any team content.  Even though the character in question was DPS, and I have NO IDEA WHO THIS PERSON IS.  Oh, and then followed up with a demand that I respec as a healer and queue so that they can do the flashpoint they've been waiting for.

Numerous suggestions that I am a dangerous pervert who should die painfully, burn in hell, and go to prison.  Preferably in that exact order, in one case.  The reason?  I have characters who are cat people.  (Charr, Caitian, Cathar, whatever.)

Being told I should kill myself for having a lockbox ship in Star Trek Online.  This happened SO reliably that I had to stop using one of my favorite ships.

An unsolicited attempt at Role-play... which turned out to be someone clumsily attempting to seduce me and solicit ERP.  And then getting almost violently offended that I wasn't interested.  "But I said you looked nice!"

And my personal favorite, blind role-play tells from nowhere starting with "the acrid scent of chloroform fills your nose as the heavy rag is clamped over your mouth."  Those are fun.  (Not.)  Plural, because it has happened more than once.

 

So... yeah.  Not sure how that connects to my above average number of crappy Warframe.market interactions, except that it doesn't surprise me at all that this isn't normal... for anyone who isn't me.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Just so everyone is aware. These mods aren’t needed to play steel path or the star chart. Wouldn’t matter where DE put them. That said I’m not a fan of arbis but it makes sense to me. Just need to buff the drop rate of essence alittle and put them in the arbi drop table. Either way these mods are useless in multiplayer and really useless in SP. Theses conditional nerf yourself first mods can rot in Arbis and not even exist as for as I’m concerned. SP arcanes is where the sauce is. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, Lord_Khaavren said:

Players: you realize some builds won’t fit the new mods even if all the slots are formad?

de: we lowered the cost of galvanized mods from 14>12. However we noticed there were a few you were too excited about so we actually raised the cost of those ones from 14>16. Lol.

Honestly, Split Chamber and the pistol one are usually put in a polarized slot. And at a drain of 15 that puts it at a polarized drain of 8. So the 16 drain mods don’t really change anything.

[Aldain]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

These mods aren’t needed to play steel path or the star chart.

No, but they're going to contribute to Warframe's ever increasing power creep and AoE spam problems nonetheless.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

8 minutes ago, Aldain said:

No, but they're going to contribute to Warframe's ever increasing power creep and AoE spam problems nonetheless.

Also True. No argument from me. I also think conditional mods are stupid unless your playing solo IMO anyway. And will likely get nerfed into oblivion in time. Everyone will get mad because muh time investment DE will throw some endo at those players and cycle continues. Better to just treat them like Rivens and ignore for now. 

[EmberStar]

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Just so everyone is aware. These mods aren’t needed to play steel path or the star chart.

"Not needed" is a pretty dangerous argument to use.  I don't "need" to play Steel Path at all.  (And have mostly ignored it since it was introduced.)  I also don't "need" to spend money.  I don't "need" to play the game at all.  (And I'm only even posting in this thread because I think this is SUCH a bad idea - I had previously resolved to never post in the forums again, deciding that 1900 was exactly the right amount of posts to have, along with the fact that literally nothing I have to say actually matters to anyone anyway.)

Speaking only for myself, and setting aside the many non-logical reasons I despise Arbitrations.  Locking these mods behind that mod is (in my opinion) a bad idea because of two of the core limitations of Arbitrations.  First, there is exactly one mission available per hour.  Never more, and often less if you die and lose all the rewards.  Especially for anyone who doesn't want to deal with the elitism and drama that this mode seems designed to attract.  Second, you get *zero* choice of what mission that is.  Oh, it's a Defection mission.  Swell.  Followed by a Disruption mission, where the drones can buff the Demolysts, awesome.  Followed by a Lua Spy, huzzah.  Well, that's an entire night of trying to make any progress straight down the toilet.  Such fun, so wow.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

don't "need" to play Steel Path at all.

Exactly right. Plus these mods are useless in SP anyway. So nothing of value was lost. 
 

 

4 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

elitism

Don’t really see that. I play solo. Because that’s what this game is. Solo with multiplayer options.

[60framespersecond]

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Reduced MERCILESS Arcanes Duration from 6 to 4 secs

Can you clarify on all things "stack"-related how these are lost? Do the buffs decay one stack at a time or will you lose everything immediately? I really hope for the former.

[Jarriaga]

12 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Also True. No argument from me. I also think conditional mods are stupid unless your playing solo IMO anyway. And will likely get nerfed into oblivion in time. Everyone will get mad because muh time investment DE will throw some endo at those players and cycle continues. Better to just treat them like Rivens and ignore for now. 

Agreed. Other people stealing your kills and disabling your buffs has been a long-standing issue. 

[mrrobotto67]

hace 7 minutos, EmberStar dijo:

there is exactly one mission available per hour.

I thought it was a good idea putting those mods behind arbitrations (even tho i don't like them because i hate endless missions), but this phrase right here made me change my mind. I forgot that there was only one available per hour and you don't have the option or say on what that mission is. They need to actually change that before releasing those mods.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

1 hour ago, HolySeraphin said:

The primary and shotgun multishot mods have 15 cost. If you put them on a polarity slot they are reduce to 8 due to rounding. The galvanize mod being 16 won't make a difference because it will also be reduced to 8.

The other galvanize mods will be reduced to 6 once put on a polarized slot. I tested "extreme" builds on Primary, Shotgun and Secondary and they all fit even while using riven, Primed mods AND Exilus. It will require forma on everything, but if you don't have a riven and forget the exilus then it requires less.

Honestly, the older mods could all use a cost reduction especially Split Chamber.

Aside from the disparity of power, a big draw for melee is that they require way less investment to achieve peak performance due to stance mods. New arcanes and fatter mods doesn't address this issue and only adds to it.

To fit all these mods, Players will probably be funneled into Kuva weapons due to the sunk cost of 5 forma and bonus capacity that normal guns don't have.

Another reason to keep using Kuva Bramma and Kuva Nukor.

 

[Aldain]

29 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Better to just treat them like Rivens and ignore for now. 

That's going to be a bit hard if you run into the one "funny" Mirage running a 200%+ Multishot Bramma or other such visually loud weapon in a Lith relic just to damage the retinas of others.

[Orakan]

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

3) Galvanized Mod Acquisition:

Moved all Galvanized Mods to Arbitrations from Steel Path. 

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades! 

Steel Path is already lacking rewards and  there are not much benefits for the veterans to do steel path other than getting an umbral forma maybe 3 regular forma packs since the nerf on getting steel escense amount. Besides Arbitrations has already way to much in it so if these are not loots from arbitrations missions there should be in the steel path vendor if they are loots in arbitrations this will be a terrible drop choie for them cause with tons endo and ayatan rewards even maxing an arbitrations arcane (which you need 21 of them and this is a real nightmare for the new players ) and there are many arbitrations only mods in loot table as well. So getting those new mods froms arbitrations will be nearly impossible cause loot table is already crowded.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I kind of wanting to express a general position as well. I would hate to be in the position of the people who have to make such game changing decisions and balances, or having to gather and process various forms of feedback and player reception, then determine based on that, how and why changes should be implemented. So many players opinions can, differ, overlap, conflict... "DE doesn't listen", "DE this change is bad, why did you do it?", "this change is too much", "this change will do nothing", just as a person who reads along different views, it can be a difficult mental task trying to envision a way to satisfy everyone. Or just the majority. Also often, just by default, its easy to criticise and point out the flaws inherent in a system or proposed change, and therefore to agree with such criticism and feedback, but so many of the alternatives or solutions I see counter offered would usually be met with as much disdain and criticism as well... this was happening with Invigorations too. Lots of dislike... but for different reasons, then players offering "solutions" except their solutions being in conflict with others criticisms... (this sucks, because the buff should be permanent, you should be able to pick the buff always, RNG sucks VS this is too much power creep, this will breed elitism, no one will play those frames they already don't play) 

I don't know, I guess I kind of find it funny, because I saw a lot of sentiment in the prior Arsenal thread about how it was "stupid" that the new mods to help in Steel Path be put in Steel Path acquired rewards, and suggestions about Arbitrations instead, but I have seen a lot of suggestions and feedback that I figure wouldn't change. Except in this particular instance it did change. Except personally I never thought the new mods being a SP acquired reward was "stupid", the few arguments I saw, were mostly generic and superficial, and criticism for the sake of criticism, or by players who seemed generally weary/intimidated by SP in the first place. The latter of which I find much more valid, I remember one of my first forays into SP, with a mismanaged Tigris build. Without the right build and game knowledge it can be daunting and off putting. I don't think those latter players are going to find Arbitrations easier though... its a different type of difficulty, so in some ways it is easier, but for the practice of acquiring these new rewards, I don't think it will be for those players. Relatively speaking. 

Except I can't really fault DE, because this was a reoccurring feedback in the last Arsenal Divide feedback, and other sources, Youtube, Reddit etc and then now, I am seeing much more feedback about how the move to Arbitrations is a bad idea with accompanying reasoning and arguments (that I personally find more compelling) but its like... you are "damned if you don't, and damned if you do" maybe I haven't seen good arguments for the Arbitration switch, maybe I am underestimating the difficulty of SP. Is the change going to change again? 

So in a way... I wish as a Community our criticisms were a bit better. Less hyperbolic, less abstract, more structured and considerate. Even if only to make it easier for us, the Community to sift through. I wanted to give an example, but eh, often the criticisms/arguments that I think are the worst, are created by people who are emotional/frustrated, and are venting or have some deeper seeded issue with the game, or life. I always feel bad isolating an example people might have used recently... Feelings of frustration with something are totally valid too, just as far as the pragmatic process of group feedback and developer implementation. 

Also there is value in being concise as well, and I personally suck at that. Also again I would hate to be involved in this games gameplay changes. 

[SeviAonbharr]

well, you guys listened, but didn't catch the point.

most of all, this thing should be considered in long term and more complex. not just adding arcanes and mods. 

melees stances have many advantages(they give some advantages like finisher damage applier, bonus damage, forced procs, etc.),

and this makes the synerges with other things(mods, arcanes, ablities, combo multifilers, etc.)

but guns don't have things like this. guns only have multishots. and this things can't be match to melee stance+'on hit' stack mods 

and it's nonsense to give 'to kill' stack mods and arcanes to guns. because guns can't kill properly in end contents like steel path.

didn't you guys made this things because users said that guns can't kill properly? and made this to get at steel path at first.

i'm agreeing that arbitration is better than steel path, but it's still a challenge. and to get arcane slots for each guns? that makes us too grinding.

and just make us to grind and hard isn't a way to make game 'fun'

it should be changed as 'access key to open the every primary/secondary arcane slots' like foundry upgrades or incubator upgrades, simulacrum key.

and also, we should have to be balanced within each weapon types(balance between primary to primary/secondary to secondary/melee to melee) too. only nerfing is not the answer. 

last. you guys forgot the bow type's galvanized mods  

 

 

 

[Duality52]

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

1) Arcanes:

Primary and Secondary Dexterity Arcanes:
- Added +60% Holster Speed 
Why:  We are including a Holster Speed benefit within the Arcane itself to ensure the whole ‘Dexterity’ aspect of it is clear with the whole Arsenal being easier to use!  

Rather than Arcanes, why not convert them into the mod equivalent of Stance Mods for Primaries/Secondaries? Part of the Arsenal Divide stems from how Primaries/Secondaries require 2-3X more Formas than Melee weapons, and yet Melee weapons reach their full potential within 1-2 Formas. Not only that, Melee stats and mods are overall better than ranged weapons. I'm aware this is saving Formas on ranged weapons, which will impact your profits, but it's rather jarring for the time invested in ranged weapons to be disproportionate to melee weapons only for melee weapons to still come out on top.