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The Arsenal Divide: Changes & Follow Ups


[DE]Rebecca

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17 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Fully agree on this, I'm a solo player, I go up to 2 hours in Arbitration, my Clan mates can't play they have real lives and cbf'd to be in there as long as me.

 

15 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

If people don't run Arbitrations or Steel Path, then they have no need for the gun mods. Simple. 

Thank you Captain obvious, I'm saying the ones who want to try and get the mods they should be available in both modes for each player. :wink:

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My biggest issue with galvanized mods right now is the absolutely astronomical cost of leveling up 9x 10 rank mods, I think that’s absolutely ludicrous. Also, don’t know if this has been clarified yet, but do the mods come from the Arbitration shop, or are they rewards from the missions themselves? I also think it’s a pretty poor decision to nerf the weakest of the new arcanes down to 4 seconds from 6 seconds. 4 seconds after a reload really doesn’t leave you with a lot of time to kill something. I strongly believe something needs to be changed to on-hit, whether it’s the mods or arcanes, and furthermore I believe Berserker should be rebalanced like that. Make it 5% attack speed per hit, up to 70% for 15 seconds. I think that’s a good compromise between how it functions on live, and the post-execution version that was mercilessly paraded around in the previous workshop. That way it’s still useful on really slow weapons, as well as crit and status weapons alike. If not, then like Brozime said, people will probably just stop using it. The easy access to that attack speed increase was the only thing that made it good.

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Just now, Slayer-. said:

Thank you Captain obvious, I'm saying the ones who want to try and get the mods they should be available in both modes for each player. :wink:

You literally said they cbf'd to be in there as long as you. Guns only start to lose effectiveness over level 100, which is like an hour into an Arbitration. 

So my point still stands.

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb ElecDeathblade:

These changes are a bit positive, however I still think that these mods aren't good enough to make primaries and secondaries truly viable for high level content.

I suggest changing their function based on two mods that are in the game:

  • Split Flights: On Hit: +100% Multishot, -180% Accuracy for 2s, Stacks up to 4 times.
  • Hemorrhage: Impact Status Effects have 35% chance to apply a Slash Status Effect (x2 when Fire Rate is below 2.5)

My idea would be that the Galvanize mods gets their effects activated on hit instead of on kill, and that the time the effect is in place is shorter, but getting a bit longer if the weapon has low fire rate, at least on the status and multishot ones.

The mods with these changes would look like:

  • Galvanize Scope: On headshot: +120% Critical Chance when aiming for 12s, +40% Critical Chance with consecutive headshots, Stacks up to 5x.
  • Galvanize Chamber: +80% Multishot, On hit: +30% Multishot for 2s (5s when Fire Rate is below 2.5), Stacks up to 5x.
  • Galvanize Aptitude: +80% Status Chance, On hit: +40% Damage per Status Type affecting the target for 2s (5s when Fire Rate is below 2.5), Stacks up to 2x.
  • Galvanized Savvy: +80% Status Chance, On hit: +40% Damage per Status Type affecting the target for 2s (5s when Fire Rate is below 2.5), Stacks up to 2x.
  • Galvanized Hell: +110% Multishot, On hit: +30% Multishot for 2s (5s when Fire Rate is below 2.5), Stacks up to 4x.
  • Galvanized Acceleration: +30% Projectile Speed/Beam Lenght, On hit: +30% Projectile Speed/Beam Lenght for 5s (10s when Fire Rate is below 2.5), Stacks up to 2x.
  • Galvanized Diffusion: +110% Multishot, On hit: +30% Multishot for 2s (5s when Fire Rate is below 2.5), Stacks up to 4x.
  • Galvanized Crosshairs: On headshot: +120% Critical Chance when aiming for 12s, +40% Critical Chance with consecutive headshots, Stacks up to 5x.
  • Galvanized Shot: +80% Status Chance, On hit: +40% Damage per Status Type affecting the target for 2s (5s when Fire Rate is below 2.5), Stacks up to 2x.

This would justify the large capacity that these require and make these mods actually more viable to high level content than before.

I like this idea, but the duration increase should occure based on reloadspeed in my opinion. (Slower Reload speed -> longer buff, so you dont reset your buff everytime you reload.)

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18 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Primary and Secondary Merciless Arcanes:
- Reduced MERCILESS Arcanes Duration from 6 to 4 secs

I don`t like this one bit.

While your at it change the nukor visual beam back to the way it was, changing it was unnecessary I`d rather the chain was removed or replaced with a different perk. The chaining beam should of never been a thing in the first place it`s already strong we don`t need it.

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23 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Fully agree on this, I'm a solo player, I go up to 2 hours in Arbitration, my Clan mates can't play they have real lives and cbf'd to be in there as long as me.

 

2 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

You literally said they cbf'd to be in there as long as you. Guns only start to lose effectiveness over level 100, which is like an hour into an Arbitration. 

So my point still stands.

Ahh I thought you were talking about the gen pop, not my 1.5 clan mates, yes gen pop don't need too but we know they'll want to, FOMO.

They want to play but don't have the time to be in there even for an hour or less and we know drops rates are crappy until later rotations, they only play Steel Path when they want to do it but wont do it unless I'm with them.

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26 minutes ago, Schelias said:

I like this idea, but the duration increase should occure based on reloadspeed in my opinion. (Slower Reload speed -> longer buff, so you dont reset your buff everytime you reload.)

The idea was that, because most primaries and secondaries are single enemy weapons, that they buffed when damaging a single enemy and rewarding being fast and precise. The buff resetting when you reload most of the weapons would be a little way of balancing the large damage increase that you get from having the buffs being on hit instead of on kill.

Still, this is just a little idea, you're free to modify that idea to make it better if you want.

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Um ..... Arbitrations only felt way too much for me ..... was looking forward for the Galvanized Mods to further upgrade my pistols, but that Arbitrations ...... I'm sorry :(

While the cost to max the mods seems really high, at least I could pick a few (pistol one at least) from Steel Path shop .... then upgrading them along the way from Railjack missions (or buy some sculptures from players) .....

Can't do that now .... so, yea, I'm sorry I won't be coming back for now :(

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Hmmm, so the buffs are nerfed before release and before anyone got to test them... interesting approach.

Holster speed is irrelevant. It is not even a quality of life thing. There are no guns in the game that benefit from that.

Also on kill things and timers, in steel path it becomes that much easier to die. How about buffing the enemy AI to make the game fun instead of watching seconds tick down so as not to die?

Just a little disappointing.

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Ugh, arbitrations. Even worse than steel path if you ask me. Bad enough i have only done /one/ arbitration ever. At least with steel path there's no need to stay in the same mission for all that long and there's no instant death with no revives either.

Hopefully the mods will be tradable or i suspect ill never get them.

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)Foighne said:

My biggest issue with galvanized mods right now is the absolutely astronomical cost of leveling up 9x 10 rank mods, I think that’s absolutely ludicrous. Also, don’t know if this has been clarified yet, but do the mods come from the Arbitration shop, or are they rewards from the missions themselves? I also think it’s a pretty poor decision to nerf the weakest of the new arcanes down to 4 seconds from 6 seconds. 4 seconds after a reload really doesn’t leave you with a lot of time to kill something. I strongly believe something needs to be changed to on-hit, whether it’s the mods or arcanes, and furthermore I believe Berserker should be rebalanced like that. Make it 5% attack speed per hit, up to 70% for 15 seconds. I think that’s a good compromise between how it functions on live, and the post-execution version that was mercilessly paraded around in the previous workshop. That way it’s still useful on really slow weapons, as well as crit and status weapons alike. If not, then like Brozime said, people will probably just stop using it. The easy access to that attack speed increase was the only thing that made it good.


The endo cost is the biggest issue I see. Yes, on a long enough timeline people will level them up, it isn't so high that leveling them is impossible.

 

But what I worry about is that people run around with half leveled mods and then say the changes aren't enough. I think dropping them to rank 8 or 9 would allow people to experience the changes before they rush to give feedback. Even at rank 8 or 9 I think it would wipe out most people's endo stores.

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19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Primary and Secondary Merciless Arcanes:
- Reduced MERCILESS Arcanes Duration from 6 to 4 secs
Why: We’re simply continuing to balance these (even after posting)! In practice, we felt lowering it was a better start given the pace of true Merciless enemy killing!

I don't care about grinding, even if Arbitration sucks. I don't mind grind.

But this right here? This irritates me. 6 seconds was already potentially too low. Your stack had the potential to fall off depending on mission type, tileset, and whether or not your allies were nuking everything before you could refresh. I was worried that this would just push everyone to using Dexterity, since it's 1) already something people will likely be doing, 2) has a longer duration with minimal upkeep, and 3) potentially frees up a combo slot on your melee.

I'm not worried about that anymore, though, because now I can guarantee it. Dexterity is now the default, best choice. And do you know what happens when the best way to use guns is to use your melee? People just continue to use melee. 

Better watch what I say, though, or you'll reduce Dexterity to 1.5s duration or something. Because apparently the best way to try to achieve a dramatic change in the meta is with half-measures. 

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The more I've considered these new Galvanized mods the less I see myself using them. I'm pretty sure that the multishot ones will be a clear upgrade now that their base stat is only 10% less than their originals, still the on-kill condition might be an issue but that remains to be seen once people can get real experience with them.

The rest are very circumstantial. I don't see why we cant just get CO for guns, instead its this convoluted mess, get status chance, get a kill to activate more damage per status affecting a target, what's wrong with just, more statuses mean more damage?

ON headshot kill, then while aiming get more CC, its messy. so many conditions versus Blood Rush; "Combo = more CC".

In so many cases Melee get simpler more direct effects, I'm certain this will keep the arsenal divide alive and well past these changes.

I want to re-state that if you were addressing the arsenal divide, you will need to go over gun stats and keep iterating on status effects as a whole. It could be beneficial to separate melee and gun statuses for the same procs. say gun impact is a ricochet hitting a nearby enemy, melee it could stagger/knockdown. Piercing for guns can have innate punch through or create a weakspot (as helios precept can), melee can get perfect follow through. etc. 

If your premise was honest, you are doing this in a very odd way and its not going to work.

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Vitus essence, yikes! It barely drops and Arbitrations are pure pain. Why not make the mods available with both Vitus and Steel Essence? Let the pepegas complain that SP is too hard and waste 1h in arbitration for what others can get in 15min in SP.

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2 hours ago, Evhans said:
Hello @[DE]Rebecca,

Galvanized mods are transferred to arbitration but:

Are they integrated into the rotations of the arbitration?
Which would totally destabilize the loot tables ...

Or can it be purchased in vitus gasoline?

Sorry for my English, I'm writing this message via google trad

they are pruchased from the shop. prices are not known at this point.

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11 minutes ago, Danny99s said:

Vitus essence, yikes! It barely drops and Arbitrations are pure pain. Why not make the mods available with both Vitus and Steel Essence? Let the pepegas complain that SP is too hard and waste 1h in arbitration for what others can get in 15min in SP.

yeah. lets hope the new mods are in line with the current offerings at 30 vitus / mod.

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Why is DE SO afraid of adding meaningful lategame content.. you dont NEED those mods for starchart.. you "need" them for steelpath.. so it makes sense to have it inside that content. so the more you do it, the stronger you get in it.. that is how every game and warframe works.. play the game, get stronger... not get everything early to make the harder content irrelevant from the beginning.. I really dont understand this..

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2 hours ago, XaelathRavenstorm said:

Lol why not make them available both on Steel Path and Arbitrations instead of completely transferring them? This is why I want DE to not listen to the community for once. I don't have any problems killing with guns in Steel Path. People are just lazy and don't know how to mod/maximize properly.

But they still didnt listen to the community on that because literally no one asked for them to change it from steel path to arbitrations...

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb MrOxen11:

But they still didnt listen to the community on that because literally no one asked for them to change it from steel path to arbitrations...

But a lot of people complained that the mods are in SP available. 
 

Where instead? 
 

no matter what DE do, it will be wrong for a lot of people.

SP? No 

Arbi? No

RJ? No
 

 

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21 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades! 

I belive many asked for combo count equivalent... but maybe that's just me ... i haven't read the meme chanel in a while....

 

21 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Bonus: Beam Weapon Mods! 

3 to 4 years late and just position swap no revisit to base length ... it's better than a slap in the face but stil not a buff at the end of the day.

Overall the more i think about it the more i belive the "on kill" condition has basically deleted some mods for true late game(500+levs) or for the  boss "content" that you guys trow out in the past 2 years(100bilion hp and call it balanced).

Your game, your rules i guess ...

 

21 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades! 

Upgrade yes... buff no... directly if we don't go out our way to farm this mods... we won't get any buff only nerfs

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I already didnt feel much like farming this and spliting the farm specially towards arbitrations makes it terrible in my opinion, unless they cost like 10 essence each mod is gonna be a massive chore. Also like most people i do not enjoy arbitrations and for the love of god dont make the gun arcanes be 21 per type.

 

Ps were are those test servers when we need them.

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