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The Arsenal Divide: Changes & Follow Ups


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il y a une heure, kaotis a dit :

Upgrade yes... buff no... directly if we don't go out our way to farm this mods... we won't get any buff only nerfs

Yes buffs. Or else you also have to apply this logic to the mods they nerfed. After all, you went out of your way to farm them in the first place, don't you ?

Same things with those new mods, except they aren't locked behind a temporary event.

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22 hours ago, Cash4Cookies said:

please just add them to BOTH shops. only having them in one decreases the accessibility a lot

If you have access to the SP, you for sure have access to arbitrations. How is accessibility reduced?

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19 hours ago, CanOfCraig said:

I had previously suggested that impact have a slight increase of physical damage to the enemy to make it an actual benefit when combined with other damage types on bosses, and other enemies.

hm, I like this suggestion about Impact most of all so far

(would be nice to have physical mods changed to scale from the whole weapon damage like elemental mods do btw)

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22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

3) Galvanized Mod Acquisition:

Moved all Galvanized Mods to Arbitrations from Steel Path. 

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades! 

Would prefer it going back to Tenshin's Steel Path Honors, you guys are already nerfing Steel Essence drops and Vitus has always been slower to get than Steel Essence.

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1 hour ago, CephalonPotassium said:

I think Galvanised mods should be a steel path reward, not an arbitration one.

That would be a good idea if mods were just a trophy, but, how do i put this, they're not trophies. Mods are upgrades to your gear. Trophies aren't essential to anything. Mods are.

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The lowering of points for the mods is nice but the melee weapons still hold a significant advantage in amount of forma needed to complete a build vs ranged weapons. Would there be some way to make a "stance" mod system for ranged weapons? Something like making the exilus mod slot into a aura/stance slot instead. That would help even the playing field and really help players with the forma needed to bring up ranged weapons to the same level and investment needed for melee weapons. 

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I feel that these mods are a terrible way to encourage swapping between weapons, if i swap to my secondary for a few seconds i worry about loosing all my primary stacks putting me at square 1, sure not a big deal in low levels where getting kills is plenty easy with guns but if nothing changes about guns bases stats they will still struggle in steelpath as they ramp up if they can even get the kills before their times expire from the last kill.
my suggestion here is to make melee combo be COMBAT combo, make these mods scale off that same combo instead of building up a ton of different buffs with short timers. and perhaps allow the parazon to act as the thing we put mods related to combo on.
what happens in this world is fast fire rate guns are used to build combo, slow fire rate guns can make use of all they buffs that got built up, melee is scaling as it normally would and you keep all your weapon buffs going while either swapping through the whole arsenal or sticking to a single weapon if you prefer that.

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47 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

 

"ooooh boy. once again, the devs didnt just miss the broad side of the barn, they missed the whole damn farm."

That's you.
 

explain then. explain in detail why im wrong.

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Okay, time for more unpopular opinions, but hey, someone needs to be playing devil's advocate for some of these arguments.

First off, I think this "update" is not for those players that have already fully or mostly cleared SP. As far as I'm concerned, you've already embraced the melee meta and the whatever upper tier gun meta is to make them work fine in SP. I'm guessing a good number of those players want these all locked behind SP so they can set market prices to players who'd like these mods before heading into SP. Not that Arbitrations are any better.

Second, the whole "These mods are for SP level game play, so of course they should be locked behind it and not in normal star chart" is bull. By that logic, since I didn't need to start thinking about using CO, BR, and the like until I was thinking about getting into SP. Heck, I had Berserker long before the current star chart map was around. So all those melee mods need to be locked behind SP as well now. And since this is about lessening the divide between guns and melee, those mods all need to be taken from us players that have them already and not have our endo and credits refunded. It's all about balance, isn't it? Oh, and why is it so bad that I can delete the base star chart with half the firearms as it is right now, but adding these mods to normal play it "too much"?

The whole concept of the galvanized mods is wrong. These should not be new mods altogether, but changes straight to the current mods they are meant to "upgrade".  Like others have said, this is a bandaid fix, and a really poor one as well. Guns as a whole need to be looked at and given a damage pass for every weapon. As I said above, I shouldn't be able to clear the whole base star chart with half the guns in this game, but when I want to go into SP, I need to now limit myself to 10-15 guns only because they are the only ones strong enough with the current mods? But I can still use over half the melee weapons with no problem at all and with a lot less forma needed to bring them up to speed (like none for some).

Okay, enough ranting from me for now. Still need my morning coffee.

 

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22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

3) Galvanized Mod Acquisition:

Moved all Galvanized Mods to Arbitrations from Steel Path. 

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades! 

The community wanted to be able to acquire these mods before going into steel path. Accounting wanted blue boosters to sell more. Blue boosters have no affect on steel path essence drops however they do affect the drop chance of Arbitration essence. Why not let us acquire these new mods in a more natural way instead of pushing us into spending more time and plat to receive our buffs. I do appreciate listening to the feed back of these mods however this change is disingenuous time manipulation by the game developers. Why do I get the "nerfs" immediately when I log in but have to spend countless hours to get 1 singular "buff" mod. I have spent over 4000 hours in this game and still enjoy playing. I don't mind grinding because I enjoy playing however this change makes me feel like the developers could care less about my time. Yes we wanted to get these mods outside the steel path but why is the only option to almost double our time in game to receive the mods? Normally I would never jump to these kinds of conclusions but this past week has shown me that the developers knew this feedback would be mostly negative. I believe the real reason the workshop was delayed till Friday was to mitigate the backlash and allow the "heat" to die down in the forums. I didn't want to believe this but how these workshops have been handled are unforgiveable. This has been my favorite game and community for years however I have never felt this kind of manipulation before.    

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This whole thing makes me really sad. Like, REALLY sad.
You know, years ago (until 2017), Warframe was an awesome Game. Pretty much one of the best games ever made.
Then DE started fiddling around with stuff. The current topic of 'arsernal divide' is another good example for the reoccuring problems in the game.
The game doesn't need these mods or the nerfs.
I hope one day DE understands that they have to fix problems at the root. And while doing so, they can add new Quests, Cinematics and other Content that
the community is asking for. You can't fix a moldy cake by adding tons of 'ok tasting' sprinkles on top of it. At some point the cake will break apart.
Oh.. btw:  the last emotional roller coaster I had was when the Lotus left. That is 3.5 years ago.
In germany we say:"Customer is king" but all I feel is:"I have my vision and you are unimportant!".
I hope you read this DE and take a second to thing about my statement.

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)CFG SatanDevil said:

But a lot of people complained that the mods are in SP available. 
 

Where instead? 
 

no matter what DE do, it will be wrong for a lot of people.

SP? No 

Arbi? No

RJ? No
 

 

How bout make them stance mods for guns. DE wants to buff guns to be more balanced with melee play. Why do we get conditional mods that require us to nerf our guns first then get kills to buff our guns. It’s stupid and counterintuitive to what DE said they wanted to do with guns. And make a new game mode that prepares you for SP put them in that new mode. Lets think outside the box. There are tons of untapped resources and lore DE can use and explore in game. But don’t. 

Edited by (XBOX)YoungGunn82
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hace 1 hora, (NSW)Slyn_Vulpes dijo:

Yes buffs. Or else you also have to apply this logic to the mods they nerfed. After all, you went out of your way to farm them in the first place, don't you ?

Same things with those new mods, except they aren't locked behind a temporary event.

I doupt that even if i explain to you why the afirmation you say is flawed you would understand but here i go:

In a scenario of 0 mods , melee weapons outscale the rest because of the combo counter.

With mods, the combo counter gous in overdrive, extra crit chanse , damage , status chanse ... we even get a mod that uses applied status chanse and adds damage(condition overload).

At this point in time is where we are. Lets take it as a baseline. DE afirms that people don't use the rest of the arsenal or that "animations too fast" <- a false afirmation from them because hardly any weapon build will ever use furry and berserk simultanrously if its not a meme build. 

Melee deal more damage , atack faster and don"t need ammo ansiety. 

DE says we will buff the rest of the weapons to bring their usage up in steel path(the exact wording is for hig level content if i'm not mistaken) <- up to here ok , perfectly razonable, more choices more power to every one (bot hdesign team and also to players).

What is the buff? We get some mods that are locked behind grind walls that force you to deal with the content that was hard to do with thous weapons....

Picture this : you love primary and secundary. You dread melee... steel path will be straight up torture ( if you don't like to use 20+ ammo per mob that is).

You say " locked behind a temporary event " either you realy don't know or you are the target audience for this buffs that they made... the mods they nerfed drop from the core star chart withaut any event, more specificalt deimos.

To finalize, we get the core star system weaker (that won't change anything coz melee stil go brrrr) and in order to boost artificial usage numbers we get a grind wall(both in endo and farm). 

It is ok to defend a game you like but look in the mirror and ask yourself if it's worth to defend somthing that is fundamentaly out of touch with the reality of the game you like. Or are you going to tell me you admire every one of the melee combos in slow motion, enjoy seeing that message of "you been playing over one hour... consider a breack" , bugs that are stil in the game since 2018... with a long list that i can keep on saying  but won't help any one coz DE only reads 0.001% of the forums , feedbacks etc.

Have a good day

 

Edited by kaotis
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So, let me get this straight.

Not only do we farm arbitrations for the mods, but we also still farm SP Acolytes for the Arcanes?

With all this time investment into primary guns, I really don't see why players would be enticed to stop using melee.

Melee weapons take so much less effort and investment overall without doing the extra work.

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hace 9 minutos, Deminisis dijo:

So, let me get this straight.

Not only do we farm arbitrations for the mods, but we also still farm SP Acolytes for the Arcanes?

With all this time investment into primary guns, I really don't see why players would be enticed to stop using melee.

Melee weapons take so much less effort and investment overall without doing the extra work.

Exactly, that is what is being sold as a buff right now.

And even forgeting the nerfs and suposing we have the new mods... melee will stil outperform ...

I'm serisoly confused to who are they listening to. Any one that has a few hours into this game will realize. Withaut changing the topic i'll just point to the parazon and Pablo having to use a barely moded weapon to showcase finishers...  DE day by day seem to know less about how this game plays and in some instances works (coz some bugs just keep on repeating in the first isntace of some repeated content , example recharge arcane for kitguns) ...

Edited by kaotis
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23 hours ago, Famecans said:

Save Atlas, unfortunately my build focused on yellow criticals hits will be negatively affected.

The focus of the update should only be the weapons and not the melee ones, the melee mods nerf will affect all melee weapons but mainly the ones that are already bad.

My thoughts on Kuva Nukor's nerf?
I don't like kuva nukor but this nerf shouldn't happen as the focus of Nukor is to status procs to Condition Overload and the Condition Overload will be nerfed. Today we would have two secondary weapons at the top vying for popularity with extremely different functions, Catchmoon to Hit Kill, Kuva Nukor to Status proc;

apparently many players will replace Kuva Nukor with Epitaph and in the future Epitaph will have a spotlight to be nerfed.

I've been using the Gaze kitgun secondary from it's original release, modded right and with a good riven this thing eats steel oath for breakfast. There are more than just meta guns in the game.... They do this to show you and wake you up to other options. If you feel other weapons are inferior, you need to rethink your modding, usage and synergies. 

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16 minutes ago, Deminisis said:

So, let me get this straight.

Not only do we farm arbitrations for the mods, but we also still farm SP Acolytes for the Arcanes?

With all this time investment into primary guns, I really don't see why players would be enticed to stop using melee.

Melee weapons take so much less effort and investment overall without doing the extra work.

You don't have to yourself, but others are free to.

The game is meant to be played and experimented with. It's not work if you like playing the game.

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45 minutes ago, festivneer said:

explain then. explain in detail why im wrong.

Ask DE, it's their game. Maybe they don't want to add scaling mods to be nerfed later and deal with more forum whiners, who knows. Maybe they want to try steps and observe behavior instead of immediately dropping this update along with scaling mods on top of that all at once. Can't all happen at once.

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Either Rework and FIX Arbitrations or keep the mods in BOTH Shops, this is not good as the drop rates for Vitus Essence is CONSIDERABLY Lower then Steel Essence.
Disappointed. All this does is double our grind as we now have to grind BOTH Steel Path AND Arbitrations to collect these new items.

Edited by -NovaUmbra-
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19 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Ask DE, it's their game. Maybe they don't want to add scaling mods to be nerfed later and deal with more forum whiners, who knows. Maybe they want to try steps and observe behavior instead of immediately dropping this update along with scaling mods on top of that all at once. Can't all happen at once.

except thats the thing. we are literally telling them the problem but they choose to ignore us.

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