Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

The Arsenal Divide: Changes & Follow Ups


[DE]Rebecca

Recommended Posts

If the mods are being moved to arbitrations then that is totally fine by me but I have a gripe I would like to bring attention to.

Vitus essence reliability

  • The arbitration drone's don't drop vitus essence too frequently, from my experience.
  • The rotating drop table is not reliable for obtaining vitus either, as the drop table is a bit jam packed.

In my opinion, it would be nice if the arbitration drones, at least, were a little more reliable for drops; much like acolytes with steel essence. A guaranteed drop each time would certainly make the grind a little more consistent.

Thanks for listening to feedback DE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, InfestedMonkey said:
On 2021-06-22 at 3:08 PM, Famecans said:

Save Atlas, unfortunately my build focused on yellow criticals hits will be negatively affected.

The focus of the update should only be the weapons and not the melee ones, the melee mods nerf will affect all melee weapons but mainly the ones that are already bad.

My thoughts on Kuva Nukor's nerf?
I don't like kuva nukor but this nerf shouldn't happen as the focus of Nukor is to status procs to Condition Overload and the Condition Overload will be nerfed. Today we would have two secondary weapons at the top vying for popularity with extremely different functions, Catchmoon to Hit Kill, Kuva Nukor to Status proc;

apparently many players will replace Kuva Nukor with Epitaph and in the future Epitaph will have a spotlight to be nerfed.

Expand  

I've been using the Gaze kitgun secondary from it's original release, modded right and with a good riven this thing eats steel oath for breakfast. There are more than just meta guns in the game.... They do this to show you and wake you up to other options. If you feel other weapons are inferior, you need to rethink your modding, usage and synergies. 

I don't think they are inferior, the other weapons are really inferior.

I don't use Kuva Nukor much less the Condition Overload combo, my main kit is Atlas + Tekko + Tigris + Akjagara(The DE can see this),
so I try to modify them for maximum power as I want to feel the game progression like a new player.

Even so I can definitely say that we don't need to nerf the best weapons, the Steel Path content in Cambion Drift drops to ground almost 95% of the weapons in the game and the Kuva Nukor + Condition Overload combo isn't overpowering there.

Talking about the common star map, the problem is the enemy's global weakness against nuclear strategies and the firearms not tied to an efficient combo system.

really efficient Rivens are not affordable, for me the Riven market is broken as the inflated price is spurred on by wmarket.com's irregular trade; technically the gun increases should be accessible so I think Riven don't are not the topic here. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hace 16 minutos, Argon-Queen dijo:

Vitus essence reliability

  • The arbitration drone's don't drop vitus essence too frequently, from my experience.
  • The rotating drop table is not reliable for obtaining vitus either, as the drop table is a bit jam packed.

In my opinion, it would be nice if the arbitration drones, at least, were a little more reliable for drops; much like acolytes with steel essence. A guaranteed drop each time would certainly make the grind a little more consistent.

This could be a nice addition, maybe do something about Arbitrations being available once per hour aswell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jesterof_Chaos said:

First off, I think this "update" is not for those players that have already fully or mostly cleared SP.

...

Second, the whole "These mods are for SP level game play, so of course they should be locked behind it and not in normal star chart" is bull.

...

The whole concept of the galvanized mods is wrong.

...

Short comments:

First sentence: The "Galvanized" mods and the arcanes are actually for everyone. If you had written "is not ONLY for those players that already plays SP" it would have been completely correct. However, a lot of "players already playing SP" would clearly like to have sole access to them...

Second sentence: Yes, it's complete bull. The whole "should be able to buy for Steel Essence"-narrative is mostly driven by players already having piles (and piles) of Steel Essence in storage (and established farming methods to get more). It has nothing to do with "playing SP content", only with turning those piles of SE into "Galvanized" mods, and those mods into plat. And when greed/plat is involved you just can't trust anything anymore, the forum turns into the darkside of IRL.

Third sentence: No, of course it isn't. Galvanized mods are great. Hopefully more of them will be added, so you'll have to choose which 2-3 of them you'll use in a build. This "one build to rule them all" is what's destructive, adding options and choice is great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really don't like the moving the mods to Arbitrations. A lot of people don't like the game mode for one reason or another and would rather not be absolutely forced into doing it. There should be more than one way to acquire Galvanized mods so people don't feel forced into doing a game mode they don't like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Because biased players that aren't aware of the whole picture always think they have the answers but it isn't always so.

but i am looking at the whole picture. its DE thats not.
they have:

  • failed to properly diagnose the arsenal divide (its combo counter and the ability to deal with groups of enemies)
  • failed to add proper solutions (on kill effects are useless, as guns cant kill fast enough to keep the buffs up)
  • failed to recognize that melee needs to be as strong as it is in steel path (its the only thing that CAN kill in steel path)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Because biased players that aren't aware of the whole picture always think they have the answers but it isn't always so.

Like, yeah, sometimes people do overreact, but there are also plenty of instances of DE ignoring the obvious, even when it's pointed out to them repeatedly.

For example, I don't need to do extensive testing to guess that Merciless is now poopoo compared to Dexterity. The only question is if Merciless' stacks fall off individually, or if it behaves like almost every other buff in the game and the entire stack drops at the end of its timer. If it's the latter, which is reasonable to assume, it's doodoo and Dexterity is now the default, even for Merciless's intended use weapon group: AoE weapons. The convenience of 20 seconds vs. 4 and not having to worry about the stacks falling off because a friendly nuked your intended refresh target is too valuable. 

Doesn't take much thinking to figure that out. But here we are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm actually worried about how much it will cost each mod, because vitus doesn't have the same drop chance like the steel path currency, not to mention, if the whole squad dies in arbitrations that means you lose everything so... =l! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, TheGreaterWar said:

When you say from Arbitrations, will they be dropped from the missions or bought with Arbitration essence?

Someone has said Rebb has confirmed that its will be bought with essence over on Reddit. Either way, it's a bad move since a the essence drops are unreliable and some people just dislike the game mode all together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

il y a 3 minutes, kaotis a dit :

You say " locked behind a temporary event " either you really don't know or you are the target audience for this buffs that they made... the mods they nerfed drop from the core star chart without any event more specifically Deimos

Blood rush was first an "Acolytes mods", it dropped first from Acolytes, which appeared temporary within their dedicated event. I'm well aware that nowadays it drop from Deimos, this is how I first got it, but firstly it dropped from that, which is what I was referencing.

il y a 12 minutes, kaotis a dit :

What is the buff? We get some mods that are locked behind grind walls that force you to deal with the content that was hard to do with those weapons....

Like the Acolytes Mods ! Even nowadays if you want to have them, you need to deal with Deimos' drop chance (or farm like a madman seven enemy for condition overload, most being once again on Deimos). Buying mods from the Steel Path store in comparison is a lot less work

But I get it, the problem is that you need to deal with Steel Path. . . Which is not the case anymore since they moved the mods to Arbitration. Which is one mission on the regular chart star but with some buff to specific equipment, and some drones you have to shoot from time to time (although the currency is more difficult to farm). . . So the problem is now void. (although I think they should put it in both).

Although, said grind can be resolved by buying them from players anyway.

il y a 22 minutes, kaotis a dit :

you love primary and secondary. You dread melee... steel path will be straight up torture

I don't dread melee per say, but it's pretty fun without it. But there's no one who truly dread melee anyway, so even without the previous point, there's was no real problem with "the grind wall". You only had to do two or three missions with only melee to get the new mods, it's really nothing bad. (Compare to Berserker, which demand you to either do a lot of void fissure, or that you do a junction over an over again... 0,6% drop chance is not much. Although the sister may make it easier to get)

il y a une heure, kaotis a dit :

It is ok to defend a game you like but look in the mirror and ask yourself if it's worth to defend something that is fundamentally out of touch with the reality of the game you like.

Here, I'm going to once again use your logic against you : it is ok to criticize a game you like, but look in the mirror and ask yourself if it's worth to criticize something that is fundamentally out of touch with the reality of the game you like.

You complain about a grind wall for the new mods, but the mods that were nerfed were ALSO behind a grind wall, one arguably worse due to them being on low drop chance rather than in a store. And if you try to tell me in the end there's no real "buff" to guns because it's only mods that changes, you also have to consider there's no "nerf" to melee because the only thing that changes is mods (excepts for Glaives' quick throw. But, you know, they're Glaives' quick throw...).

Basically you're trying to make a separation that isn't there. Both are behind grind walls, and the chance that you get Berserker or Condition Overload without grinding specifically for them is slim. And buying them from other players is something that so far, can also apply to the Galvanized mods (I see no reason for them to not be available for trading... but then again I see no reason with the Amalgam ones either. But since they never specified, I assume we will be able to trade them). And that whole argumentation can also apply to the Kuva Nukor (specifically for a melee primer).

That aside, I have no problem in agreeing that the mods were fine as is. But that in the end the nerfs will have little impact. (as you said : "melee stil go brrrr").

 

Good day to you as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, festivneer said:

but i am looking at the whole picture. its DE thats not.
they have:

  • failed to properly diagnose the arsenal divide (its combo counter and the ability to deal with groups of enemies)
  • failed to add proper solutions (on kill effects are useless, as guns cant kill fast enough to keep the buffs up)
  • failed to recognize that melee needs to be as strong as it is in steel path (its the only thing that CAN kill in steel path)

Guns can kill, though. You have to actually properly buff them and/or debuff the enemy. 

If you're a new or inexperienced player expecting to solo steel path Mot with a 3 forma akmagnus....that's an individual player issue.

 

 

56 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Like, yeah, sometimes people do overreact, but there are also plenty of instances of DE ignoring the obvious, even when it's pointed out to them repeatedly.

For example, I don't need to do extensive testing to guess that Merciless is now poopoo compared to Dexterity. The only question is if Merciless' stacks fall off individually, or if it behaves like almost every other buff in the game and the entire stack drops at the end of its timer. If it's the latter, which is reasonable to assume, it's doodoo and Dexterity is now the default, even for Merciless's intended use weapon group: AoE weapons. The convenience of 20 seconds vs. 4 and not having to worry about the stacks falling off because a friendly nuked your intended refresh target is too valuable. 

Doesn't take much thinking to figure that out. But here we are.

It's only players that assume everything in the game is supposed to super OP and efficient. It's an option just like everything else. You're free to not use it. Someone else may use it though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Guns can kill, though. You have to actually properly buff them and/or debuff the enemy. 

If you're a new or inexperienced player expecting to solo steel path Mot with a 3 forma akmagnus....that's an individual player issue.

 

ok then, go through steel path mot to a hour using only guns, warframe abilities are allowed but their purpose cannot be to kill enemies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Ask DE, it's their game. Maybe they don't want to add scaling mods to be nerfed later and deal with more forum whiners, who knows. 

But YouTube whiners are what prompted them to upend an entire system in the first place. Stands to reason the majority of people who weren’t complaining would be entitled to be a little mad that the “buffs” we are getting are not only being locked behind farming walls, but also nerfed in real time thus discouraging any confidence that the farm will be worth it at all. 
 

I am not excited about having to play Arbitrations, a tedious game mode with unrewarding drop chances in endless missions that make me drowsy to sit through. I don’t want melee nerfs forced upon me because a YouTuber who resents having to make Warframe content for a living decided to embarrass the devs. And I don’t want to invest in arcanes that will just be “rebalanced” a month after I spent several hours maxing them out and purchasing the unlocks for each of my weapons. Not to mention, you think the community is toxic now? And they nerfed the KESTRAL?
 

this update sounds worse and worse the more it is discussed. 

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Because biased players that aren't aware of the whole picture always think they have the answers but it isn't always so.

The youtubers seem to have all the answers. DE Listens to them consistently. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

Short comments:

First sentence: The "Galvanized" mods and the arcanes are actually for everyone. If you had written "is not ONLY for those players that already plays SP" it would have been completely correct. However, a lot of "players  already playing SP" would clearly like to have sole access to them...

Second sentence: Yes, it's complete bull. The whole "should be able to buy for Steel Essence"-narrative is mostly driven by players already having piles (and piles) of Steel Essence in storage (and established farming methods to get more). It has nothing to do with "playing SP content", only with turning those piles of SE into "Galvanized" mods, and those mods into plat. And when greed/plat is involved you just can't trust anything anymore, the forum turns into the darkside of IRL.

Third sentence: No, of course it isn't. Galvanized mods are great. Hopefully more of them will be added, so you'll have to choose which 2-3 of them you'll use in a build. This "one build to rule them all" is what's destructive, adding options and choice is great.

Well I had hoped by some of my comments later in my post, I would have made it clear that if these mods were available in base star chart, they are for everyone. And no, I'm not talking about them being available in Arbitrations. Plenty of others have given why that is almost as bad as locking them behind SP. I don't really have an answer as to where to put them.

But at the same time, I've made it clear they should be put into the base versions they are upgrading. As they are now, they are basically conditional Prime mods. I feel the amount of mods we have available is really starting to get bloated. Adding in a whole new class of mod types isn't going to help. It's just going to push a lot more mods that aren't being used into the dirt.

I did sit here and try to think of some way melee mods could be galvanized, but unless they are only 'on kill' like the current galvanized are, and with the way melee works, it's no use making those. Melee already has base mods that these are acting like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, (PSN)Alphonso-Alonso said:

But YouTube whiners are what prompted them to upend an entire system in the first place. Stands to reason the majority of people who weren’t complaining would be entitled to be a little mad that the “buffs” we are getting are not only being locked behind farming walls, but also nerfed in real time thus discouraging any confidence that the farm will be worth it at all. 
 

I am not excited about having to play Arbitrations, a tedious game mode with unrewarding drop chances in endless missions that make me drowsy to sit through. I don’t want melee nerfs forced upon me because a YouTuber who resents having to make Warframe content for a living decided to embarrass the devs. And I don’t want to invest in arcanes that will just be “rebalanced” a month after I spent several hours maxing them out and purchasing the unlocks for each of my weapons. Not to mention, you think the community is toxic now? And they nerfed the KESTRAL?
 

this update sounds worse and worse the more it is discussed. 

You played the game for how long, but all of a sudden farming and playing the game is impossible now huh? 

Well you're more than welcome to use plat...or simply not participate....it's your life I don't know what to tell you.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see how any of this would make me play less melee and derive from ignis wraith, bramma, ogris etc. AoE will still absolutely dominate, certain damage abilities will be even more useless and the best non-AoE guns will still kinda be OK and guns that actually require you to aim will stay niche and only good for certain situations. What about arch guns, made almost no sense to use them except when we had to (profit taker), now there's even less of a heavy gun feel when every primary and secondary get's 9000% multishot for basic gameplay.

 

All in all this seems like a total fail to me and looks more like a scheme to power-creep normal gameplay more and make people have to forma their fav guns a couple more times,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Changes, I'm okay with but there are some grey areas.

If the mods are being implemented into the Arbitrations store, do not make them anything above 30ish vitus since vitus can be tedious to farm especially for players just starting to progress towards SP. Possibly make a dedicated drop for vitus or increase drop rates slightly. 

Have there been thoughts about a mod for primaries and secondaries similar to a aura or stance mod to increase a players mod slots? If not, players will skew towards Kuva variations and the new Corpus variations of weapons for leeway on modding.

How do the stacks disappear with these arcanes? Is it one stack at a time or all stacks at the end of the duration? Can we get maybe a exilus mod for added duration if need be due to losing "On kill" stacks being tedious to manage especially if you lose them in higher levels.

Also, please consider a PTS with big changes like this. Internal testing is nice and appreciated but players can also bring awareness to issues and scenarios you might not encounter.

Edit: Fixed Arbitration question since I missed my dose of reddit answers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...this all hinges on actual costing.  I'm not sure why people aren't taking that into account first...because even DE have finally tacitly admitted to this.

 

Let's spend just a second, and figure this out.  In an arbitration you've got 1 vitus essence awarded per cycle, a potential to drop from the drones, and one reward that is a pack of three vitus essence.  This practically has meant that I can get anywhere from 13 to 50 vitus essence when playing a 40 minute survival (50 requiring a booster)...so let's cut the math to about 30 vitus essence as a high estimation of the earnings per 40 minutes.  This of course runs us at about 45 essence per hour, though your mileage may vary substantially run to run.

That means when DE places something into the store at 50 essence they're imposing a grind that is greater than an hour in arbitrations.  It also means if we're getting it as part of the random drops...oh boy, that'd suck.  Nothing quite like 40 minutes where your rewards are a mod, 6 sculptures, a endo pack, and 3 essence.  Now imagine trying to get 21 arcanes....oh boy.  Specifically, I can imagine this because I've maxed out every single other arcane in the game, except for those five.  11 Pistoleers, 18 Bodyguard, and the three remainders between those two.  Literal years of casual arbitrations, and I cannot get 21 of those arcanes.

 

Now, let's look at Steel Essence.  That's rewarded as 3 per mission, for a finite mission quantity.  It's dropped in increments of 2 by a spawn that seems to be at best every five minutes.  That means you can theoretically get 16 Steel Essence in 40 minutes, or 24 per hour.  This means that asking for the same time investment would have the cost in steel essence being exceptionally low...as in about half the cost of vitus essence.

 

 

Now....what exactly do we have as a setup?  Well, no numbers.  The acolytes will "spawn more frequently" than before...so what?  4:30 instead of 5:00 is more frequently, but it's immaterial if you're searching for 50 Steel Essence.

I'd challenge that what DE has presented is about 25% of a plan.  There's no mod cost.  There's no new spawn rate.  There's no cost for these arcanes, or the unlocker to get arcanes applied.  There's no data on how many arcanes we'll need (to be maxed out).  There's no data on whether these arcanes matter.  Most unfortunately, these mods all seem to be high cost...so how exactly are we to use other high cost mods with them?  A crit and heavy calibur build already requires a polarity to each mod slot, without any extra capacity for a pexilus slot.  You now want to add on a slightly better version of the mods...with a significantly higher cost?  Well, goodbye edge case builds using high cost mods already.

 

 

I'm not happy with the changes and the setup here.  It's not about feeling cheated, but DE slapping together 5-6 changed systems without any regard for how things work together.  The switch to arbitrations is...fine.  It indicates though that DE isn't working with a vision.  They're slapping crap together at the last minute, so that we can have something to work with.  It's shaping up to be another Railjack level of failure, only this time it's monkeying with core systems.  Fine, whatever.  Maybe this will be the update that finally makes me regret playing this game.  If it isn't, then it'll probably wind up being another 40-60 hour time sink just to get to where we were before.  Hey....anybody remember those exilus slot adapters...a rare reward...for only requiem mission...that could only equip mods that were meant to be QoL?  Wow...it's a repeat.  Everybody is losing their crap, instead of just rolling their eyes.  Why?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ceryk said:

Really don't like the moving the mods to Arbitrations. A lot of people don't like the game mode for one reason or another and would rather not be absolutely forced into doing it. There should be more than one way to acquire Galvanized mods so people don't feel forced into doing a game mode they don't like.

Well a lot of people don’t like steel path.

so regardless of what store it goes to people are going to be upset.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2021-06-22 at 8:09 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades! 

 

But why

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...