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The Arsenal Divide: Changes & Follow Ups


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So, the solution to having mods that were better for Steel Path is to move them to Arbitrations....where the odds of getting these on a drop are still not known, nor do we know how much Arbitration currency we will need.

Arbitrations are not a great solution, if only because you can only do 1 an hour, and if you bomb out, that's it. I suspect all you have done here is made a mode that already has issues with keeping players in them for longer than a few minutes, an unrealistic expectation. 

We cannot control what Frames bonus into Arbitrations, nor can we control what others come in with as well. 

I propose you allow the mods to exist in both places, or be a drop chance in one, and purchasable in the other.

I have no issue chasing items in the Steel Path, and those mods helped with the idea of spending more time in Steel Path, aside from just the Arcanes. I'd much rather spend time in Steel Path, then being even more gated in Arbitrations given their time limits and constraints. 

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16 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

3) Galvanized Mod Acquisition:

Moved all Galvanized Mods to Arbitrations from Steel Path. 

Does that mean as rotation reward or purchasable in the arbitrations store via vitus essence?

 

16 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Reduced MERCILESS Arcanes Duration from 6 to 4 secs

Does the entire stack get removed if these 4 sec run out or only one part of the stack? Meaning if I have a full stack of 12x, will this last for 48sec and will go down slowly every 4sec or just 4sec in total? If it's in total you might as well remove it from the game. 6sec was already little, 4sec would be too little to be usable. 

Edited by (NSW)M0rgarath
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On 2021-06-22 at 2:11 PM, Cash4Cookies said:

please just add them to BOTH shops. only having them in one decreases the accessibility a lot

This. Allow us to grind before tackling Steel Path through Arbitration, but if you're doing well enough, you can grind Steel Essence and get the rest of the mods instead.

Please don't lock it behind a separate grind that has MUCH LESS reliable resource gain compared to Steel Essence, and more restrictive options (only one mission type per rotation).

EDIT: I wouldn't have mind this decision if Arbitration wasn't in its current state. If it had the same resource philosophy as Steel Path with Incursions and more than one MISSION/FACTION option per rotation (remember Steel Essence can be farmed on literally any mission in the Star Chart), it would be a decent decision.

If Arbitration remains unchanged, I believe the mods should be in both shops instead. Heck, you can even make them more costly in SP and MUCH LESS costly in Arbitrations to balance out the current disparity in Essence farm. However, I would prefer an Arbitration revision to bring that in line with SP in terms of fun + consistent essence rewards.

EDIT 2: I wrote this on Twitter but here are my new proposed changes, if the mods stay in Arbitration. I would rather see this happen so we can expand on an older, existing content.

Spoiler

EDIT 3: Concerning "On-kill" effects. I was wondering if it's possible to please both sides of the party without breaking this function too much. Here's the idea I have:

- AoE Weapons = On-Kill only
- Single-target weapons = On-Kill + On-Hit with % chance to trigger, double % if lower fire rate. This isn't unprecedented since you've done that with Hemorrhage and Internal Bleeding.

EDIT 4: If Vitus Essence drop rate doesn't change, at least give us up to 3 missions per hour for options. I think that alone can help a ton for "fun factor" while keeping matchmaking concise.

Edited by Casardis
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Please consider allowing these mods to be in both Arbitrations in some form (maybe not direct drops) and also in Steel Path. This will further dilute the already-strained Arbitration drop tables, and I don't like that I will have the choice of exactly one mission type, chosen via RNG, per hour to play if I want these mods. Steel Path allows much more flexibility in how we choose to obtain these, especially for older players like myself who are sick of Arbitrations.

  

1 minute ago, Casardis said:

This. Allow us to grind before tackling Steel Path through Arbitration, but if you're doing well enough, you can grind Steel Essence and get the rest of the mods instead.

Please don't lock it behind another grind wall that has MUCH LESS reliable resource gain compared to Steel Essence, and more restrictive options (only one mission type per rotation).

  

2 minutes ago, MythosoftheDamned said:

So, the solution to having mods that were better for Steel Path is to move them to Arbitrations....where the odds of getting these on a drop are still not known, nor do we know how much Arbitration currency we will need.

Arbitrations are not a great solution, if only because you can only do 1 an hour, and if you bomb out, that's it. I suspect all you have done here is made a mode that already has issues with keeping players in them for longer than a few minutes, an unrealistic expectation. 

We cannot control what Frames bonus into Arbitrations, nor can we control what others come in with as well. 

I propose you allow the mods to exist in both places, or be a drop chance in one, and purchasable in the other.

I have no issue chasing items in the Steel Path, and those mods helped with the idea of spending more time in Steel Path, aside from just the Arcanes. I'd much rather spend time in Steel Path, then being even more gated in Arbitrations given their time limits and constraints. 

 

All of this.

Edited by Anaktoria
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Now the real difficulty of farming Galvanized mods. The terrible spawn rate when solo in Arbitration. Can arbitration finally get the steel path treatment with enemy spawns? Been begging for this since Steel Path became a thing, whether it's a toggle or not. I don't care, but Steel Path showed how much better this game is when you don't think solo players are weak and stop a ton of enemies from spawning from not being in a full group.

or just have the mods in Arbitration AND Steel Path if you don't feel like upping the enemy spawns.

I see you mentioned on Reddit it will be with Vitus Essence, so from the store. That emphasizes even more how much this will suck. Drones are few and far between when solo. I hope these mods are tradable, buying them will be more enjoyable than dealing with this mode again.

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11 minutes ago, .Khaos. said:

Why, just why...

Did you not see the flood of comments saying these mods should be available before reaching TSP? This is DE literally working on said feedback.

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12 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

Do you worry that all this emphasis on buff stacks will incentivize players to use only a single weapon during missions to avoid losing the stacks? For example, if I build up my stacks on the primary weapon I'm unlikely to use secondary or melee since I'm afraid of losing primary stacks. 

Personally, I would prefer a system that incentivizes players to use the entire arsenal and mix it up a lot during missions, keeping the combat fresh throughout instead of just repeating the same actions over and over.

Remind me of the Ranger gameplay in Neverwinter MMO. Its fairly well designed with a melee build, a range build, and the hybrid build. What gets cool with the hybrid build is it is setup so melee attacks stack buffs for range and then range attacks use up the stacks instead of having a timer but at the same time build up stacks for the melee... which for when you switch back, the melee will use up the stacks while building the range stacks. Makes for rewarding game play.

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13 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

Do you worry that all this emphasis on buff stacks will incentivize players to use only a single weapon during missions to avoid losing the stacks? For example, if I build up my stacks on the primary weapon I'm unlikely to use secondary or melee since I'm afraid of losing primary stacks. 

Personally, I would prefer a system that incentivizes players to use the entire arsenal and mix it up a lot during missions, keeping the combat fresh throughout instead of just repeating the same actions over and over.

Changing the on kill status to trigger by any kill made by the player would help with this.

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18 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Bonus: Beam Weapon Mods! 
4) General Beam Weapon Mod Change:

Ruinous Extension and Sinister Reach are now slottable in the Exilus slot and their text changed from "+X Range" to "+X Beam Length"
Why: While we are in the revision process for all things Mods, some well reasoned suggestions made it aboard! 

 

18 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Primary
- Galvanized Scope - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Aptitude - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Chamber - Stack count increased from 4 to 5. Mod Capacity increased from 14 to 16

Shotgun
- Galvanized Acceleration - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Savvy - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
 Galvanized Hell - Base Multishot increased from 80% to 110%. Mod Capacity increased from 14 to 16

Secondary
- Galvanized Crosshairs - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Shot - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Diffusion - Base multishot increased from 80% to 110%. Mod Capacity increased from 12 to 14

Thank you!

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2 minutes ago, Hello said:

Now the real difficulty of farming Galvanized mods. The terrible spawn rate when solo in Arbitration. Can arbitration finally get the steel path treatment with enemy spawns? Been begging for this since Steel Path became a thing, whether it's a toggle or not. I don't care, but Steel Path showed how much better this game is when you don't think solo players are weak and stop a ton of enemies from spawning from not being in a full group.

or just have the mods in Arbitration AND Steel Path if you don't feel like upping the enemy spawns.

I see you mentioned on Reddit it will be with Vitus Essence, so from the store. That emphasizes even more how much this will suck. Drones are few and far between when solo. I hope these mods are tradable, buying them will be more enjoyable than dealing with this mode again.

Honestly, I like having some RNG and a Store too. Being that the stuff randomly drops along with currency, so if I just don't get the drop, I can go to the vendor and buy it.

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hace 19 minutos, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

Tenno!

Since The Arsenal Divide Workshop launched on Friday, we’ve been busy developing, testing, and reading responses. 

You have read, but you have not listened. Nothing that is said in this post fixes anything that other players have pointed out in the first post. In fact, they have made it even worse.

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2 minutes ago, Hello said:

Now the real difficulty of farming Galvanized mods. The terrible spawn rate when solo in Arbitration. Can arbitration finally get the steel path treatment with enemy spawns? Been begging for this since Steel Path became a thing, whether it's a toggle or not. I don't care, but Steel Path showed how much better this game is when you don't think solo players are weak and stop a ton of enemies from spawning from not being in a full group.

or just have the mods in Arbitration AND Steel Path if you don't feel like upping the enemy spawns.

I see you mentioned on Reddit it will be with Vitus Essence, so from the store. That emphasizes even more how much this will suck. Drones are few and far between when solo. I hope these mods are tradable, buying them will be more enjoyable than dealing with this mode again.

Obligatory "Marathon, not a race."

There's not many things that are untradeable. You shouldn't expect every mod and arcane on day 1.

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Just now, Awazx said:

You have read, but you have not listened. Nothing that is said in this post fixes anything that other players have pointed out in the first post. In fact, they have made it even worse.

I disagree. Many people brought up the mod drain....and now it's lower....

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20 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades!

If these mods are added to Steel Path rotation rewards, diluting reward pool even further - nobody is going to farm them.

If you're adding them to Arbitration shop, then why can't you add them to Steel Path stop as well?

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15 minutes ago, .Khaos. said:

Why, just why...

While this announcement should have been swifter, this would add more use to the arbitration shop, which hasn't been updated in ages. I do however still think Teshin needs to offer more than operator armour and two ephemeras as well as occasional umbral forma and kuva though. Maybe some occasional aura formas at 10-20 steel essence each?

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27 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

3) Galvanized Mod Acquisition:

Moved all Galvanized Mods to Arbitrations from Steel Path. 

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades! 

https://media.tenor.com/images/a19963b1098476c364e59c45daf87089/tenor.gif

While I still believe there's a serious issue with the disparity of building for melee VS building for guns, IE: The effort and materials required to bring a Primary or Secondary weapon up to par with a Melee weapon is not commensurate with the time it takes to make a single Melee weapon viable. I can still appreciate that there are a handful of positive changes being made here. Changes that, while they don't solve the problem, at least they don't make it worse.

I do hope that changes like these continue to happen, and this isn't where it ends. Primarily due to the disparity present in mod capacities between Firearms and Melee. I do think that is something that should be looked into. Either utilizing the new "Firearm Arcanes" to bring the capacity up to par to that of a melee weapon with a stance, or to make some other change that allows for a fully developed build without requiring two dozen and a half visits to the Affinity Farms™.

Edit: I'll note that I'm hoping this refers to the Arbitrations store.

Edited by Paranoicon
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On 2021-06-22 at 2:02 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Moved all Galvanized Mods to Arbitrations from Steel Path. 

Hi Reb. Do you mean the Arbitrations store or do you mean the already polluted Arbitrations drop table?

Thanks.

EDIT: Reb clarified Arbitrations store, 20 Vitus. This is pleasantly reaonable.

Edited by Jarriaga
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So on the Merciless Arcane, does getting consistent kills refresh the timer? Or do we have 4 seconds to get the damage to ramp up and then have to start over again? Might be a silly question but just want to be sure.

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Moved all Galvanized Mods to Arbitrations from Steel Path. 

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades! 

 

Translation: Grinding increase x10

 

Im sure you dont expect us to be happy with this change. Cause we arent. Im not, believe me. 

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I mean the game has 12+ different damage types, if you are so keen on incentivizing variety, adding variety to combat would benefit more. Put some new enemies on steel path maybe. Drones that require blast damage to crack their armor first so that you can normally kill them. Shield drones that gets disabled by magnetic damage. A necramech like enemy that is impervious on its turret form but gets disabled by gas damage perhaps. A big enemy that has a weak point that spins so fast that you need to slow it down with cold damage. This kind of mechanics would incentivize weapon variety, adding to numbers is not adding variety. 

If the mechanic I mentioned above existed, Catchmoon wouldn't need to be nerfed this much, or Bramma, or Xoris, or other "Everybody uses weapon X so nerf" because you would have to use your whole arsenal. 

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Kinda of a bummer you guys moved the mods to Arbitrations, but overall good changes.

Please, consider making more than 1 Arbitration mission [type] available every hour. Waiting for a good mission type/faction rotation is already bad enough.

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