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The Arsenal Divide: Changes & Follow Ups


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vor einer Stunde schrieb Almagnus1:

If DE was serious about solving this issue, ...

they can't. this is an absolutely blatant effort and is destroyed with every major update.
DE actually has top people in my opinion. but you can't jump higher than your head. that’s a fact!

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Personally I do not think this patch is the solution to ever widening gap between melee and everything else. Does anyone else remember when DE would say that they wanted the players to feel powerful? When did that change and why? These nerfs, new mods, and arcanes in this patch do not address the core problem with power gap between weapons. Will the new mods and arcanes make weapons that are horrible in the easiest of base content, maybe but I doubt players will be using them in SP, Arbitration, Sorties, etc. Instead of nerfing the CO, BloodRush and Berzerker, create similar mods for primary and secondary as a starting point and then adjust from there. Over nerfing does not make the game more enjoyable and does not fix the gap between different weapons. Maybe it is just me but it seems like DE continues to go in the wrong direction with Warframe. 

There is something that I’ve also been wondering that I have yet to see mentioned in any post about the changes in this patch is how will these nerfs effect frames that rely on stat sticks? How are these changes going to effect frames like Khora, Atlas and other frames? I’m guessing that the effect these nerfs have on frames wasn’t even considered? The constant nerfs that do not address the core problem is getting to be a bit too much.

Maybe instead of constantly nerfing what people enjoy using, bring other weapons up so they can compete with our favorite weapons. Making everything equally bad does not fix anything. Another idea would be to give the nerf hammer a break and fix real issues like Ropalolyst, Jordas Golem, and others that bug out to the point that you have to restart the missions. Or another idea I just had would be to maybe make rewards in SP worth actually playing SP. Whatever happened to Deimos getting a major boss fight like we have on POE and Fortuna? Maybe it’s just me but I would rather have content first and “rebalancing” second. I’ve been playing Warframe since it was released on the PS4, back when Excalibur still had a super jump as an ability. Maybe it’s time for me to retire from Warframe because I hate seeing a game that I love keep shooting itself in the foot. 

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Just now, BiancaRoughfin said:
3 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

Given the repetitive and grindy nature of this game, steamrolling is how you need to be playing it.

Thats a subjective point of view and i doubt half the community abide by that.

We are at a chicken or the egg dilemma.  

Do we have to steamroll the game because it's grindy?  

Or do DE have to make the game grindy because we can steamroll the game too easily? 

The fact of the matter is: if DE give a good drop rate on anything at all, everyone would be finished farming that thing in 3 hours then spend the next 3 months complaining about "Content drought".    

 

Anyway, back on topic. People need to chill the heck out. You can buff the damage of gun by 10x and cut melee damage by half, and melee will probably still be better than guns in almost every scenario. We already seen the nerfs in the Dev Workshop. It's a slap in the wrist at best. Melee will still be dominant. So again, y'all can  chill.  

As a bonus, here's what Glaive damages looks like. You can nerf this by 99% and glaives will still be better ranged weapon than every guns out there.

XJjTDvB.png?2

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Melee mods and glaives are getting nerfed, that's true but they'll still be very strong and capable of killing the stuff the game throws at you. Lets not blow this out of proportion, please.

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24 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Not easy pretending to be reasonable when all you really want is whine and cry and scream pointless hyperbole, isn't it?

Maybe you should actually provide an example where DE buffed something in a reasonable time after nerfing it.  Only example I can think of is Ember, and that took YEARS of her being dumpster fire tier before she got fixed.

I want to solve a problem, clearly you want the problem to continue to exist.

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12 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

they can't. this is an absolutely blatant effort and is destroyed with every major update.
DE actually has top people in my opinion. but you can't jump higher than your head. that’s a fact!

If DE has top people, please explain the population numbers seen at https://steamcharts.com/app/230410#All and why we're not in the top 10 at https://store.steampowered.com/stats/ (we used to be).

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1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

instead of just bringing up the primaries and the secondaries, DE is also nerfing the melees which means that all that's going to happen is that the melees will trade places with the primaries and the secondaries

This is too much conjecture to justify "just don't do it (yet)". The meta, while not exactly objective at times*, is reactive rather than proactive. It finds what does best in the game once players settle into changes and get to play them. A few melee mods are being nerfed to scale a bit less. And guns are being given upgrades to scale at all. After the update the only big in-config difference between gun and melee will be that non-Zaw guns get an Arcane while non-Zaw melees won't -- but melees already have Stance Mods, which boost total Drain capacity and do things like force powerful Status procs. I feel like melee will still have a leg up on range post-change.

Either way, let's not let feelings scare us into delaying changes to the game. Let's mix up the stale parts, take stock of how the game plays post-change, and deliver feedback once we have the update under our fingers and can express informed opinions instead of fear.

*Jeff Kaplan, lead designer of Overwatch, has said that "the appearance of balance is often more powerful than balance itself" [paraphasing here]. Or in essence, tell the community a nerf to X is coming and a lot of players will think of X as trash now and never play it, even if post-nerf it still performs very well, because 'nerf' is a dirty word to those players. You could even tell players a nerf to X is happening, not even change X and still see the meta shift, as shown in League of Legends.

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Gerade eben schrieb Almagnus1:

If DE has top people, please explain the population numbers seen at https://steamcharts.com/app/230410#All and why we're not in the top 10 at https://store.steampowered.com/stats/ (we used to be).

Yes. they have top people. including top coder, top gfx designer and top sound designer ... you can see that straight away ..

I don't want DE defensive at all. I have 0 money from it. only obvious things can be easily checked ...

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5 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

If DE has top people, please explain the population numbers seen at https://steamcharts.com/app/230410#All and why we're not in the top 10 at https://store.steampowered.com/stats/ (we used to be).

Really? Your using Steam statistics?

Warframe goes through content droughts regularly which is when the player population decreases but increases when large new content arrives.
When content drought hits, players go to other games they also love and have a lot to do in like WoW and Final Fantasy that released large content expansions in the last few months.

So saying the game Devs are bad because population fluctuates is just plain dumb.

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3 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Really? Your using Steam statistics?

Warframe goes through content droughts regularly which is when the player population decreases but increases when large new content arrives.
When content drought hits, players go to other games they also love and have a lot to do in like WoW and Final Fantasy that released large content expansions in the last few months.

So saying the game Devs are bad because population fluctuates is just plain dumb.

Yet Warframe stayed flat through 2020 despite most other online games growing by a significant number, and the Warframe content creators are dwindling - which means the free PR they are providing warframe (and thus the awareness they are helpign to raise) is diminishing.  Warframe is showing all signs of a digital game in decline.

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13 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

Yes. they have top people. including top coder, top gfx designer and top sound designer ... you can see that straight away ..

I don't want DE defensive at all. I have 0 money from it. only obvious things can be easily checked ...

If they really had top designers... why did I play through Tempestarii, hit the song, get about a verse into the song and wonder how such lazy and uninspired gameplay ever got past testing?

These are also the same people that had Pablo CRIPPLE a Synoid Gammicore build just so he wouldn't evaporate mobs to demonstrate how to do parazon kills which shows DE is wasting time on a mechanic 99% of the playerbase will never see outside of the lich system.

Yes, Warframe is pretty and the sound design is good... but good stuff without good gameplay can only take you so far, especially when you have a dev team intent on nerfing everything fun about the game into the ground because we aren't playing Warframe how they decided we should play it.

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Gerade eben schrieb Almagnus1:

If they really had top designers... why did I play through Tempestarii, hit the song, get about a verse into the song and wonder how such lazy and uninspired gameplay ever got past testing?

you are addressing important matters! i can't answer it !!!!
I don't belong to it ...

important people are extremely important for game development .. but i'm not irrelevant here!

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb Almagnus1:

If they really had top designers... why did I play through Tempestarii, hit the song, get about a verse into the song and wonder how such lazy and uninspired gameplay ever got past testing?

These are also the same people that had Pablo CRIPPLE a Synoid Gammicore build just so he wouldn't evaporate mobs to demonstrate how to do parazon kills which shows DE is wasting time on a mechanic 99% of the playerbase will never see outside of the lich system.

Yes, Warframe is pretty and the sound design is good... but good stuff without good gameplay can only take you so far, especially when you have a dev team intent on nerfing everything fun about the game into the ground because we aren't playing Warframe how they decided we should play it.

Why exactly are you here? You clearly don't like a single thing about the game.

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On 2021-06-22 at 2:02 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Primary and Secondary Merciless Arcanes:
- Reduced MERCILESS Arcanes Duration from 6 to 4 secs
Why: We’re simply continuing to balance these (even after posting)! In practice, we felt lowering it was a better start given the pace of true Merciless enemy killing!

This is a serious overestimation to how fast high fire rate, non-aoe weapons can kill.

This definitely quells the concerns of another Bramma meta being on the horizon, but unless the stacks decay slowly (instead of all at once like Naramon's combo counter passive), a Stratavar will have to kill as fast as a Acceltra.

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1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

Why exactly are you here? You clearly don't like a single thing about the game.

I like that I can murder hordes of enemies well enough to hit MR27.  Why are you here?

Am I not allowed to be critical of lazy game design when DE has done some amazing things like the Second Dream and many of the other warframe quests that have more depth than a forced music video?

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb Almagnus1:

I like that I can murder hordes of enemies well enough to hit MR27.  Why are you here?

Am I not allowed to be critical of lazy game design when DE has done some amazing things like the Second Dream and many of the other warframe quests that have more depth than a forced music video?

Maybe you should read your comments in this thread out loud to yourself and think about whether you still like the game or are just here because of sunk costs.

 

 

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