The Arsenal Divide: Changes & Follow Ups

[Almagnus1]

2 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

What are you talking about? Synoid Gammacore had its nerf years before Parazons were even theorized by the Devs. Last change ever made to its power/stats was at the end of 2019 where they changed its disposition from 0.9 to 0.95 and before that was back in 2018 when they actually buffed the weapon.

Go watch https://youtu.be/G4wt-4Bx3Cg?t=635 .  Relevant clip starts at 10:35 and shows what I'm describing.

[vanaukas]

Just now, Almagnus1 said:

Specifically it's the changes to Berserker, Condition Overload, and Blood Rush as those should be delayed until after the galvanized mods are released as the nerfing of those three mods is going to ratchet melee back and likely cause it to swap places with primaries and secondaries on Steel Path.  

FYI https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1268017-dev-workshop-the-arsenal-divide/

I'm aware of the changes, I don't need your FYI

Neverliked those mdos, never used it and soloed Steel path on the first iteration, even got the Bishamo armor on my own, so I also did endurance runs ons teel apth and never felt the need on using any of these mods. Stop overracting, melee will perfom exactly the same.

[FuriousRat32]

5 hours ago, ME4TMAN said:

Auntie Rebecca (@[DE]Rebecca), so far "on paper" the update is ok but as some of our fellow nieces and nephews have pointed out, I also feel that the new Galvanized Mods should stay in the Steel Path Honors due to resource grind reasons. As such I have a table to prove my point.

 

	Arbitrations Vitus Essence	Steel Path Essence
Main drop sources	Arbitrations drones	Acolytes
Main Drop amount	One	Two
Main drop sources drop chances	3% chance	100% chance
Main drop sources spawn rate	Every three minutes, No change after update	Every five minutes, resets after acolyte defeat after update, Four to seven minutes before update
Main drop sources spawn location	Usual enemy spawn point; does not spawn in arch-wing and arena missions	Near host player location; does not spawn in arch-wing and arena missions
Rare Resource drop booster increase	YES	YES
Double Resource booster increase	YES	YES
Additional drop sources	End of round Rotation in mission	Steel Path Alert mission completion
Additional drop sources drop chances	7% chance per rotation reward, 100% after round completion	100% chance
Additional drop sources amount	Three as rotation reward, One after rotation completion	Three
Additional drop sources limitations	7% Chance per rotation	Five random missions per day
Mission selection(s)	One random endless mission per hour	ANY unlocked normal star chart missions
Mission selection(s) limitations	Till next mission reveal, one hour timer	Does not spawn in arch-wing and arena missions

 

As such, the compromise to appeal to most people is to have the Galvanized Mods available in both the Arbitrations Honors and Steel Path Honors with the latter having at a discounted price due to the slight harder work needed to smack the acolytes. Auntie Rebecca and Uncle Steve, please consider as those people will complain about the grind later if the update released as planned.

 

To those weak people who say Steel Path mission hard, I share link to weejio where one of our fellow nephews prove you can finish mission even with basic setup;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri-KDzoGSPQ

Drones don't spawn once every 3 minutes, there is a total cap of 5 drones present at all time, so the more you kill the more will spawn

[Almagnus1]

4 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

I'm aware of the changes, I don't need your FYI

Neverliked those mdos, never used it and soloed Steel path on the first iteration, even got the Bishamo armor on my own, so I also did endurance runs ons teel apth and never felt the need on using any of these mods. Stop overracting, melee will perfom exactly the same.

While that's true, that's also only your play style which is not representative of the playerbase.  Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it's fun for the majority.

[vanaukas]

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

While that's true, that's also only your play style which is not representative of the playerbase.  Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it's fun for the majority.

What's fun? Seeing bigger numbers? My playstyle was mostly melee and not even a god tier melee, I cleared it using skiajati and kronen prime (rivenless). Both with sacrificial set, no gladiator mods, 60/60 mods P Fury. So what's so different on "playstyle"? What's "unfun" there?

[Birdframe_Prime]

DE are nerfing three mods, one gun, and making sure that quick-throws on Glaives are not as strong as fully charged throws.

Oooh... I haven't seen nerfs on such a scale since... since... I literally can't remember because these nerfs are so mild and pointless that we'll have forgotten them in a few years just like all the other mild nerfs.

You know what was a real nerf to Condition Overload? When DE changed it so that the damage acted like a regular mod rather than a modded-damage multiplier. Original Condition Overload multiplied your total modded damage by 60%, rather than just adding 120% Damage, based on statuses affecting a target.

Now that was a nerf. That was consequential.

Or how about when DE made Melee Damage no longer be multiplied by the Combo Counter? Now that was a nerf. That was consequential to the changes in the system. In fact that one was so consequential that DE literally buffed the damage of nearly every single Melee weapon up to match the damage that a 5x or 6x Combo could achieve before the change.

It was crazy.

Compared to those kind of changes? Three mods? One priming Gun? And half a function of throwing Glaives? The heck?

There's literally no point in complaining about this, DE could have gone way further with it. DE were talking like they could literally cap Melee speed entirely, regardless of mods, so that no melee weapon could achieve faster than a specific attack speed. But instead they made Berserker not stack with Fury. That's as far as that went.

And worst of all the problem that was raised, the fact that Melee has so many base systems working for it compared to the point-and-click Guns just means that even this nerf won't bring them down.

DE have just made guns have more damage conditionally on kill. That's it. It hasn't made guns more effective. Guns will still be single target. Heck, 90% of guns don't even have native Punch Through so your bullets are shooting at dead bodies and not the living enemies behind them. Melee has Follow Through so it hits everything in a cone or radius of effect.

So go take a seat with this 'Guns will replace Melee'. Knock it off. Before you herniate yourself.

[KlaussKlauss]

I am a super fan of the Galvanised mods. I play Warframe just to chill but it is so damn grindy and people go nuts with the grind and start being competitive in PvE. 

Solution: Galvanised mods with "on kill" effects. Just let the 2 members of your random squad that are always tryhard grinder boys to take all the kills, competing is stupid in PvE, chill half afk and get the loot. People will eat their heart out to get the kills as they already do, but now with buffed retardness. What support (ahem observer) should I play, Trinity?  

[--END--Rikutatis]

2 hours ago, keTch-uP said:

The update will certainly be a net nerf to Steel Path farming since even with the buffs to guns they will in no way reach old levels of Melee power. Also sorry for going a bit off-topic here, but I think the main culprit here is still armour(and to a certain extent shield)-scaling, it simply needs to be capped at a certain not too high percentage. A huge advantage of melee are the big slash procs, there is simply no way any gun can compete with these. Why there is even a need for armour-scaling when there's already a scaling factor(HP) is a question for another topic.

What do you mean by Steel Path farming? Long endless missions to keep killing acolytes over and over? If that's it, and you're going super long into it, then yea, sure, melees are the undisputed king (although snipers can dish out massive slash proc damage as well, they're just single target and way worse for clearing hordes). But even then it's not a huge nerf for melees, it'll be a small dps loss sure, but they'll still carry to enemy level cap regardless. 

As for guns, if you're doing just baseline level SP, there's quite a few AoE primaries/secondaries that completely devastate enemies at those levels, specially if you throw in a buff or two to them. They're just not as ridiculously powerful as melees, but that doesn't mean they're weak or can't handle SP enemies. The new mods will make them even more powerful. 

I'm still baffled by people saying that melees will die or that guns can't kill SP enemies. Makes me wonder how they're building their weapons. 

[ReaverKane]

1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Thats a subjective point of view and i doubt half the community abide by that.

First of all, you don't know gamers, sorry. I've been bored of Warframe lately so i went back to Guild Wars 2, and i constantly get grief for not skipping a specific part on a fractal. I don't because the mobs on that part have a high rate of dropping a rare material that i need for my next legendary. And people know that, and still will not engage even though its actually a gold loss. In warframe its the same thing. People won't do the relics on Railjack because its faster to skip that while farming for Sevagoth, while you could wait a few seconds and do both. Most people don't look for medallions on Syndicate missions, even though that's where most of the standing. If you think the majority of people don't want to get through stuff as fast as they can, you're delusional.

Also, half the community don't engage with the kind of content where these changes are relevant. Because i can steamroll the star chart with most primary or secondary weapons without having to put up an effort, we're not talking about the kind of content that is for half the community. Its the kind of content for people that like to engage with the game and understand its systems. In fact the changes in this will definitely make ranged weapons ridiculously overpowered in normal star chart.
 

[-Augustus-]

3 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

the melees will trade places with the primaries and the secondaries.

That's, uh...yeah, that's totally going to happen! Care to place a small plat wager on it? 1000p?

[----Legacy----]

10 hours ago, (PSN)tpen5663 said:

Does anyone else remember when DE would say that they wanted the players to feel powerful? When did that change and why?

Many things change with DE over time, so anything they say must be taken with a grain of salt.

For instance, back when they announced a console port, a big concern for PC players was our updates being delayed for simultaneous releases, which they stated wouldn't happen. However, a brief look at DE's update cycles is enough to tell that they are now doing exactly that: delay PC updates for simultaneous releases on all platforms.

[Sir-Von-Abyss]

On 2021-06-22 at 8:06 PM, Sevek7 said:

Do you worry that all this emphasis on buff stacks will incentivize players to use only a single weapon during missions to avoid losing the stacks? For example, if I build up my stacks on the primary weapon I'm unlikely to use secondary or melee since I'm afraid of losing primary stacks. 

Personally, I would prefer a system that incentivizes players to use the entire arsenal and mix it up a lot during missions, keeping the combat fresh throughout instead of just repeating the same actions over and over.

__________________________________________________________________________
(!) Just throwing out a wild card my brain conjured up after i read this.
But, how would it be like if >Primary & Secondary gained Part or Half percentage % of the damage multiplier from melee combo hits❓
 

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Or how about when DE made Melee Damage no longer be multiplied by the Combo Counter? Now that was a nerf. That was consequential to the changes in the system. In fact that one was so consequential that DE literally buffed the damage of nearly every single Melee weapon up to match the damage that a 5x or 6x Combo could achieve before the change.

Fact check time. Median raw damage buff for melee weapons was 2.8x damage. 75th percentile was 3.48x damage. 95th Percentile was 4.96x. That's right, only the top 5% of weapons got a damage buff of 5x or greater.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Just now, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Fact check time. Median raw damage buff for melee weapons was 2.8x damage. 75th percentile was 3.48x damage. 95th Percentile was 4.96x. That's right, only the top 5% of weapons got a damage buff of 5x or greater.

Good fact check.

Even then, 2.8x damage for the majority of weapons is pretty incredible to compensate for a nerf, and the fact that it wasn't even as much as I'd pointed out in the majority of cases, means that the nerf was even heavier.

Previous nerfs to larger systems in the past wouldn't have even bothered to provide a counter-buff, too.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Just now, Birdframe_Prime said:

Good fact check.

Even then, 2.8x damage for the majority of weapons is pretty incredible to compensate for a nerf, and the fact that it wasn't even as much as I'd pointed out in the majority of cases, means that the nerf was even heavier.

Previous nerfs to larger systems in the past wouldn't have even bothered to provide a counter-buff, too.

It is indeed. This isn't accounting for other stat buffs though, which where pretty massive for some weapons (Looking at you Orthos Prime).

[Kegnor97]

En 22/6/2021 a las 11:09, CheesyCanine05 dijo:

Question (Sorry if this was answered previously in the video): Will Galvanized Hell stack with other standard multishot mods like Hell's Chamber does?

The name implies it will not be equipable with hell's chamber (just like you can't put true steel and sacrificial steel together) but it will most likely be equipable with vigilante armaments

[(PSN)LK-4T4]

On 2021-06-22 at 2:15 PM, -Kittens- said:

No thanks.

Grind so you can grind while grinding for your grind didn't work with railjack and it's not going be any more popular or "convenient" here.

Every game has grind. How else are you supposed to get it?

Just have it handed to you? Big pass.

[Snake]

Get rid of the "On Kill" and "On Aim" Condition on the Galvanized Mods.

This is not going to be effective with the pace/speed of the game in Steel Path.

Even with Rivens - This will not make Guns more balanced with melee.

If the point is to balance with melee, the mods will not be effective at this.

 

If you have to start out with less damage EXAMPLE - "Galvanized Multi-shot Mods" to meet a "Kill" condition on tougher enemies that do more damage to you; You are disadvantaged unless you kill quick.

You know you first have to kill it Right?

Also - Aragon Scope "Aim" Condition always made it less appealing to use unless you are Eidoloning; Why would a better version with the same awful "Aim" condition be better for steel path? AGAIN the pace of the game is too fast for this to be effective on steel path.

 

On "5 Hits", "Crit" or on Status would be better.

 

Looking at these mods I can only imagine the discussions DE has had within. Thanks for opening up the forum too, so the player base can provide feedback.

We play this game.

 

The forum community is not the only WF community. There are many other communities in Voice Chats and the Fandom that have expressed my same concerns and suggestions.

[--MADE-IN-HEAVEN--]

arbitration? No, please, no. The ideal is good although it has a time stretch player un-friendly drone, but overall it's not a bad ideal. The real problem here is the missions are random, not everyone like to defense or survival etc. Everyone has their own preference, so the fact that ppl have to w8 for their preference mission to show up is a huge boomer.

Steel path worked so well simply because ppl get to choose which mission they wanna play. survival? No problem. Take a step further? Corpus survival? Bang! Available too, 24/7 anytime, just hop in.

Btw, Dev team. The person that handles game stats really need play the game on yourself. By on yourself I mean on actual average player's perspective, just simply as finish all kuva weapon farm or get to MR30  without using any GM thing. You just need look at things at average play level, take it in mind at least. Please don't just show up and throw out changes like Blizzard. Force player to grind or play stuff they don't like rather then make stuff attractive to players is not a good ideal. I believe everybody in dev team understand how and why overwatch balance itself all the way to the ground, right? Or look at bungie, another clear example.

[(XBOX)HollowCube987]

I only gone for like 3 hours

How did this section of the forum catch fire

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

1 hour ago, (PSN)LK-4T4 said:

Every game has grind. How else are you supposed to get it?

Just have it handed to you? Big pass.

Yeah it’s like people don’t want to come home from a full time job to clock into a part time job. 
 

hard pass on that mentality. Who need work when you can do a bunch of unpleasant game modes so that you can unlock those buffs we were promised to counterbalance those melee nerfs we received day one.

 

How can anyone not be excited by that prospect? They’ve already nerfed an arcane before it even launched! Why isn’t anyone excited yet????

[ShogunGunshow]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Alphonso-Alonso said:

Yeah it’s like people don’t want to come home from a full time job to clock into a part time job. 

You may have picked the wrong game to invest your time into, then.

[[DE]Rebecca]

On 2021-06-22 at 2:02 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

How many Vitus Essence will each Mod cost from Arbitration Honors?

20 Vitus Essence Each. If you'd like to wait until the Sisters of Parvos Update launches, it will increase the Vitus Essence drop rate from 3% to 6% from the Drones. Note that for consistency the Vitus Essence will also disappear after 5 minutes if not picked like Steel Essence as previously announced. Heads up! 

 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Ah sweet, 20 Vitus Essence is great news! Am glad to hear the drop rate is improving. 

[Jesterof_Chaos]

I'm sorry, but that drop rate increase is still abysmal compared to the guaranteed drop from Acolytes. Yes we may kill more drones over time in missions, but there are still times when I've gone well over 5 minutes without an essence drop in Aribs, and an extra 3% isn't going to make it much better.