The Arsenal Divide: Changes & Follow Ups

[inappropriatename5877]

On 2021-06-22 at 9:02 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Note that for consistency

>consistency
>in warframe
bruh

[(PSN)anansispiderPS]

On 2021-06-22 at 7:18 PM, Casardis said:

This. Allow us to grind before tackling Steel Path through Arbitration, but if you're doing well enough, you can grind Steel Essence and get the rest of the mods instead.

Please don't lock it behind a separate grind that has MUCH LESS reliable resource gain compared to Steel Essence, and more restrictive options (only one mission type per rotation).

EDIT: I wouldn't have mind this decision if Arbitration wasn't in its current state. If it had the same resource philosophy as Steel Path with Incursions and more than one MISSION/FACTION option per rotation (remember Steel Essence can be farmed on literally any mission in the Star Chart), it would be a decent decision.

If Arbitration remains unchanged, I believe the mods should be in both shops instead. Heck, you can even make them more costly in SP and MUCH LESS costly in Arbitrations to balance out the current disparity in Essence farm. However, I would prefer an Arbitration revision to bring that in line with SP in terms of fun + consistent essence rewards.

EDIT 2: I wrote this on Twitter but here are my new proposed changes, if the mods stay in Arbitration. I would rather see this happen so we can expand on an older, existing content.

  Reveal hidden contents

EDIT 3: Concerning "On-kill" effects. I was wondering if it's possible to please both sides of the party without breaking this function too much. Here's the idea I have:

- AoE Weapons = On-Kill only
- Single-target weapons = On-Kill + On-Hit with % chance to trigger, double % if lower fire rate. This isn't unprecedented since you've done that with Hemorrhage and Internal Bleeding.

That last edit is conceptually good.

[drsnivy]

On 2021-06-23 at 4:02 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

increase the Vitus Essence drop rate from 3% to 6% from the Drones.

That's one of 4 issues addressed, now make the solo spawnrates the same as steel path, remove the random 1 hour mission and replace it with just letting us choose so we don't have to wait 1 hour for defection to go away, and move all non-vitus/endo drops in the drop table to the arbitration shop.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

44 minutes ago, FuriousRat32 said:

Players complaining about vitus drops, do not know what farming them efficiently means, and by that,  I mean: tileset, faction, mission type and squad composition. You can't complain that you get 3 or 4 vitus in 30 minutes if you run solo survival arbi. You gotta learn how to farm them efficiently, otherwise, you're better off running steel path

 

Thats the thing - many people who are criticising/complaining about Vitus Essence versus Steel Essence aren't doing it because they/we lack either, (though that might be some peoples motives) but the idea it was moved to Arbitrations because its "easier" for people who can't do Steel Path or who need these new Gun Mods to be able to do Steel Path. The idea of "locking the reward behind the challenge". 

If we talk about team work, running groups, picking good compositions, knowing map and mission types, and being efficient, then it doesn't really matter whether its Steel Path or Arbitrations, you'll get a lot of the currency easy! Organisation and team work are OP! However we are talking about the practical ease and convenience of people who have avoided Steel Path or struggled, desiring the new mods. 

This is just an assumption I have, it may not be accurate, I might be wrong, but I figure, if someone can't do a Steel Path Daily capture for guaranteed 3 SE, they probably can't do an Arbitration Defection or Disruption. Or another way, I think there are easier ways and more ways, for them to get more SE than there are for them to get VE, which can be a very punishing game mode, only exists in 1 hour rotations, and features many unpopular game types (again, not to myself, I love Defection and Disruption etc).

That being said, those were my worries prior to the drop chance of VE being improved, and the price of mods were revealed at just 20 VE each. Also, more people seem to be playing Arbitration than ever before, so its nice to enter full squads for it. Granted, none of the people I have played with except two seem like the would struggle in Steel Path either. 

[Dunkelheit]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb HolySeraphin:

I don't know if anyone already noticed, but putting the mods in Arbitrations solves the endo cost problem. Because you get a lot of endo and ayatan statues as rotation rewards.

I think you don't know what "a lot of Endo" really means. Try farming Endo with a mod drop chance booster in Arena. You'll get 3.5k every 2 minutes if done correctly. Loading times included.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

I'm a bit worried that there are still no acknowlegment that "on kill" a condition to trigger all gun buffs is a bad idea. I'd like at the very least a "we undertand your concern and we're working on it, we don't have time to change everything for patch 30.5 but expect further information in a future devstream"

[-SicMundusCreatusEst-]

I think someone forgot how arbitrations works.

Beside obtaining Vitus essence from drones you can obtain 3x as reward for rotations and 1x guaranteed for each rotation.

If you didn't obtain any in 5 minutes, you might want to think that you are not ready yet for arbitrations. 

[Cephalon_Umbra]

Why increase th drain to 16? It wasnt even fitting with 14 drain and 9 Forma.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

19 minutes ago, -SicMundusCreatusEst- said:

I think someone forgot how arbitrations works.

Beside obtaining Vitus essence from drones you can obtain 3x as reward for rotations and 1x guaranteed for each rotation.

If you didn't obtain any in 5 minutes, you might want to think that you are not ready yet for arbitrations. 

 

If you mean myself specifically. I am aware, I love Arbitrations and do them regularly. Yes you do get guaranteed rewards for rotations as well, but thats still restricted to that quests rotation. Meaning... after four rounds of defence, you could potentially walk away with just 4. With SP Daily's, depending what they are (like say an Extermination, Capture, Hostage, Defence and Disruption) you could do three of them in as much time, get a minimum of 9 (or 15 with the new change). Plus it would take longer, but do the other 2 for 15, without having to wait till the end of the hour. Both modes also have the potential to drop more than that, if you kill Drones/Acolytes, one is a guaranteed drop though. Then you can just play your favourite nodes after if you still want more, instead of waiting hours for Arb to be favourable. 

Otherwise yeah, though, eh, I don't mind if unprepared people join my Arbitrations, as long as they are trying their best. Struggling will help them learn the game mode and get better through experience. Plus we do want people to be able to access these new mods no? If we have some people telling them Arbitration is much easier than SP and so go there instead, and then they struggle there, because the game made can be weird (many people find Survival easy, but if they attempt the mode for the first time and its Disruption or Interception on a tough map, and they are paired with other people new to the mode?) I mean, isn't that why us veterans should be helping, both in game and with suggestions/advice. 

If you are referring to someone else, someone else's postings though, then my bad. 

[Cephalon_Umbra]

Why increase th drain to 16? It wasnt even fitting with 14 drain and 9 Forma. On Kill is the worst condition and paired with low Duration its NOT fluid Combat when you have to struggle to activate these buff and then loose them, because you had to run to the next Room. Make it based on Hit/Head Shot activation and increase all duration to 20 seconds tha way you remove the struggle to get buffs up and 20 second Duration should be enough to get to next Room before they run out.

[(NSW)M0rgarath]

21 minutes ago, Cephalon_Umbra said:

Why increase th drain to 16? It wasnt even fitting with 14 drain and 9 Forma.

I assume you are talking about the primary multishot mods, because these are the only ones with 16 drain. What you are saying doesn't make any sense. These are alternative versions of Split Chamber and Hell's Chamber, the regular multishot mods. Both of them have 15 drain. Which results in 8 drain on a polarized slot. Which is the exact same as their galvanized versions would cost on a polarized slot. If you could fit Split Chamber on your build before you will be able to replace that with Galvanized Chamber without adding a Forma... it goes in the same slot as before and costs the same. 15 vs 16 drain on the mod makes zero difference on a polarized slot.  

[RichardKam]

14分钟前 , (NSW)M0rgarath 说:

I assume you are talking about the primary multishot mods, because these are the only ones with 16 drain. What you are saying doesn't make any sense. These are alternative versions of Split Chamber and Hell's Chamber, the regular multishot mods. Both of them have 15 drain. Which results in 8 drain on a polarized slot. Which is the exact same as their galvanized versions would cost on a polarized slot. If you could fit Split Chamber on your build before you will be able to replace that with Galvanized Chamber without adding a Forma... it goes in the same slot as before and costs the same. 15 vs 16 drain on the mod makes zero difference on a polarized slot.  

To echo on the galvanized multishot mods. The galvanized version is merely 10% lower than their vanilla counterpart. Killing one single enemies will already give you advantage over the vanilla multishot mods. With the discussion above on drain after matching polarity, I would say it is a free upgrade and is fundamentally better than the vanilla one.

If we are fine with Amalgam Barrel Diffusion, I don't see any problem with the galvanized version.

[(NSW)M0rgarath]

1 minute ago, RichardKam said:

To echo on the galvanized multishot mods. The galvanized version is merely 10% lower than their vanilla counterpart. Killing one single enemies will already give you advantage over the vanilla multishot mods. With the discussion above on drain after matching polarity, I would say it is a free upgrade and is fundamentally better than the vanilla one.

If we are fine with Amalgam Barrel Diffusion, I don't see any problem with the galvanized version.

Yeah it's definitely a free upgrade. I will replace the vanilla ones on all my builds with the galvanized versions. Prior to this follow up post vanilla multishot for shotguns and especially pistols might still have had some usecases, because the starting amount of MS was only 80% (thinking of primer secondaries and stuff like that), but now that they have raised the base value on these two to 110% there is absolutely no point in using vanilla anymore for anything really. 

[(PSN)Crazy_Mr_J]

Le 22/06/2021 à 20:02, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

How many Vitus Essence will each Mod cost from Arbitration Honors?

20 Vitus Essence Each. If you'd like to wait until the Sisters of Parvos Update launches, it will increase the Vitus Essence drop rate from 3% to 6% from the Drones. Note that for consistency the Vitus Essence will also disappear after 5 minutes if not picked like Steel Essence as previously announced. Heads up! 

Ok for 20 Vitus Essence, but Vitus Essence farming aren't interesting in comparison to the Steel Essence, and 6% (or 12% with Ressource Chance Booster), will not change that (that's reminds me the 5% / 10% / 20% chance of the Lichs Ephemeras). For me, for the Steel Essences, you have changed in the good way with 100% Drop Rates for the Acolytes, and your Plans to adds 100% Drop Rates of Arcanes + Spawn Frequency of Acolytes increased are, really, a very good way to farm in WF (without Grind for Grind, just Farming again and again), but i think Arbitrations need the same treatment with Vitus Essence, especially if you considers the Primaries and Secondaries' weapons need this Galvanized mods for being betters in some ways (in comparison to Melees and/or Some Mission Types and/or Endless Missions, according to you)

EDIT : And just for add other reasons to change the Drop Rates of Vitus Essence, reminds you this rules for Arbitrations :

• A Rank 30 Warframe is required to play Arbitrations.
• Once a player loses all their Health, they die instantly (no Bleedout phase). Same for Your Companion.
• Missions have Special Rules (ex for Survival Misssions : Life Support Capsules are worth 75% of usual).
• Arbitration Shield Drones (you understand what i want to says...)
• Arbitrations Missions are alerts Missions (so, if you don't want to do a particular mission and this mission is the actual Arbitration, you need to waits... and if you've already doing the alert, you need to wait the next too...)

EDIT 2 : we really needs, after finishing all Steel Path's missions, a new unlocked Elite Arbitration mode after that

[Monolake]

10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

20 essence is fairly quick farm especially with increased chance. 

You should make the mods untradable to keep them for actually endgame players and be a real reward and progress, otherwise they will sell for cheap and every new player will just buy them, completely destroying the progress and removing the need to even play high level missions to gain this excessive power.

Arbitration structure sill badly needs a change - there is no choice and long wait for rotation making it impossible for people to get to play what they want. You may come from work/school and only have few free hours to play games, but there is only one crappy arbi mission - like defection - on the menu, what do you expect people to do?

[Tokomi_]

Just not convinced any of this is good news for mid-grade/mid-game players.

For we who are far along, it's irrelevant. We will find the next most powerful build and provide DE their next nerf target.

New players can't access it.

I don't want or need more choices of lesser quality for the sake of diversity.

Maybe I'm wrong. I've been conditioned to doubt here...

[Monolake]

5 hours ago, Jesterof_Chaos said:

Pretty sure that's not how the math actually figures out. By your thoughts, that 1-2 that I've gotten in 30 minutes runs are now going to be possibly a whole whopping 3-4. And that was when I did have resource boosters going.

Thats not how arbitartions work. You get guaranteed essence for every rotation, so 30 min would be 6 essence for rotations alone plus whatever you get from the drones and plus a 7% chance at 3 essence rotation reward.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Crazy_Mr_J said:

Ok for 20 Vitus Essence, but Vitus Essence farming aren't interesting in comparison to the Steel Essence, and 6% (or 12% with Ressource Chance Booster), will not change that (that's reminds me the 5% / 10% / 20% chance of the Lichs Ephemeras). For me, for the Steel Essences, you have changed in the good way with 100% Drop Rates for the Acolytes, and your Plans to adds 100% Drop Rates of Arcanes + Spawn Frequency of Acolytes increased are, really, a very good way to farm in WF (without Grind for Grind, just Farming again and again), but i think Arbitrations need the same treatment with Vitus Essence, especially if you considers the Primaries and Secondaries' weapons need this Galvanized mods for being betters in some ways (in comparison to Melees and/or Some Mission Types and/or Endless Missions, according to you)

EDIT : And just for add other reasons to change the Drop Rates of Vitus Essence, reminds you this rules for Arbitrations :

• A Rank 30 Warframe is required to play Arbitrations.
• Once a player loses all their Health, they die instantly (no Bleedout phase). Same for Your Companion.
• Missions have Special Rules (ex for Survival Misssions : Life Support Capsules are worth 75% of usual).
• Arbitration Shield Drones (you understand what i want to says...)
• Arbitrations Missions are alerts Missions (so, if you don't want to do a particular mission and this mission is the actual Arbitration, you need to waits... and if you've already doing the alert, you need to wait the next too...)

EDIT 2 : we really needs, after finishing all Steel Path's missions, a new unlocked Elite Arbitration mode after that

It's the same exact game except you have drones that require you to not be lazy. Stop making excuses please: 

Why is a rank 30 warframe now all of a sudden some arduous task? Please explain.

None of these are issues and we're all aware of what arbitrations are. 

You'll have these in a reasonable time or you can buy what's left over if you can't wait.

 

46 minutes ago, Monolake said:

20 essence is fairly quick farm especially with increased chance. 

You should make the mods untradable to keep them for actually endgame players and be a real reward and progress, otherwise they will sell for cheap and every new player will just buy them, completely destroying the progress and removing the need to even play high level missions to gain this excessive power.

This hasn't been a thing so it shouldn't now. And people were gonna do that anyway. 

Should people not be able to buy prime stuff as it releases too? 

 

31 minutes ago, Tokomi_ said:

Just not convinced any of this is good news for mid-grade/mid-game players.

For we who are far along, it's irrelevant. We will find the next most powerful build and provide DE their next nerf target.

New players can't access it.

I don't want or need more choices of lesser quality for the sake of diversity.

Maybe I'm wrong. I've been conditioned to doubt here...

Games are about progression. They have something to work towards like everyone else.

[fo3nixz]

30 minutes ago, Tokomi_ said:

Just not convinced any of this is good news for mid-grade/mid-game players.

For we who are far along, it's irrelevant. We will find the next most powerful build and provide DE their next nerf target.

New players can't access it.

I don't want or need more choices of lesser quality for the sake of diversity.

Maybe I'm wrong. I've been conditioned to doubt here...

new players dont need everything in game when they start it.... do they do that in wow? gw2? destiny ? diablo3 ? poe

[-Augustus-]

6 hours ago, Jesterof_Chaos said:

By your thoughts, that 1[.5]-2 that I've gotten in 30 minutes runs are now going to be possibly a whole whopping 3-4.

That's...how doubling works?

 

32 minutes ago, Tokomi_ said:

New players can't access it.

They don't need it. Literally nothing before SP needs the primary/secondary power creep this creates,

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

I'm a bit worried that there are still no acknowlegment that "on kill" a condition to trigger all gun buffs is a bad idea. I'd like at the very least a "we undertand your concern and we're working on it, we don't have time to change everything for patch 30.5 but expect further information in a future devstream"

Because it's not an issue if you know the slightest way about how the game works. Kill a fodder enemy.

[Shinyah]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Because it's not an issue if you know the slightest way about how the game works. Kill a fodder enemy.

How do you proc the new mods/arcanes against the latest reworked boss : The Jackal in Steel Path ?
Maybe I don't know the slightest way about how the game works.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 minutes ago, Shinyah said:

How do you proc the new mods/arcanes against the latest reworked boss : The Jackal in Steel Path ?
Maybe I don't know the slightest way about how the game works.

There are weak moas that appear during each stage of the fight. Have a team member strip their armor or buff the team....or both... 

[(XBOX)CFG SatanDevil]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Shinyah:

How do you proc the new mods/arcanes against the latest reworked boss : The Jackal in Steel Path ?
Maybe I don't know the slightest way about how the game works.

U don’t need the new mods/arcanes to kill Jackal, u can kill it with ur olds mods like everyone do it at the moment 

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

il y a 38 minutes, (PSN)Madurai-Prime a dit :

Because it's not an issue if you know the slightest way about how the game works. Kill a fodder enemy.

Fodder ennemy ? You mean nullifier or ancient healer ? Or both ?

Play 15min+ survival in a mission that is not Grineer, and tell me what is "fodder enemy" and how you kill them fast with ranged weapons without few second pauses to swap from primary (AoE) to secondary (high rof to depop nullies) or to cast a buff or CC, or just to reload...

Otherwise you can just yolo with your melee with bloodrush / weeping wounds / primed reach and x12 combo all day long with Naramon school