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The Arsenal Divide: Changes & Follow Ups


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50 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Can we get a fix for Ballista Measure with this as well? It was released undocumented about a year ago and the mod has an inconsistent description and doesn't appear to do anything for Archguns. Please don't forget about this mod. 

Also, for consistent weapon range modifiers, can (Primed) Firestorm/Fulmination get static range increases instead of percentage like melee received?

If / when that's fixed, do you think it could be a potential Exilus mod for Archguns? Well, hypothetically speaking at least. Resolute Focus also sounds Exilus-y, but it's reduced spread could be thought of as a DSP increase, perhaps.

 

The thought just crossed my mind since they've added RE & SR as Exilus, and they are a type of gun after all; Of course this wouldn't be akin to putting an Exilus slot on Melee, I don't think. Not to get off-topic too much.

  • That said I am still hoping Archmelee & Sentinel weapons can get a look-over at some point as well. At least the latter :)

 

Changing Firestorm & Fulmination in that static way would also make them more fair compared to various Range mods for Melee, I agree.

 

39 minutes ago, Taiepii said:

Please explain me how I'm suppose to equip any of those new mods ? I'm full forma, each slot with the right polarity and I'm still at 0 / 60 I can not even equip amalgam to begin with.

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Understand as well that I cannot properly have different Elemental build because of Cold being the only Varazin polarity 
 

I've been thinking that perhaps installing an Arcane of a varying level could function as a stance mod, to further increase the gun's mod capacity :)

  • Hypothetically, if that were implemented then a Rank 40 Kuva gun might be able to reach the same amount as a Rank 40 Paracesis / Kuva melee weapon.
     
  • That said, as Arcanes don't have polarities, I'm not sure if it would then be an increase based off of a non-polarized stance slot, or a green-polarity stance slot.

 

It would be some food for thought, if nothing else.

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9 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

So you’re not making the absolutely mandatory change of changing these gun mods and arcanes to ‘on hit’.

As long as these mods remain ‘on kill’ they are going to completely worthless for higher levels like what Steel Path provides.

This is a good point. At this rate, the "buffs" you are giving to guns will be about as useful (useless) as the nerfed "berserker fury" mod. So all weapons will be approximately equal levels of useless... I guess that is a form of balance? 

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58 minutes ago, Opyt said:

My snarky reply might be moot, as allegedly Reb announced on Reddit that it was the Arby shop, so Vitus Essence instead of RNG Rewards.

This would be alright IF they adjusted the arbitration drop tables to not include useless items AND buffed the amount of Vitus Essence that was dropped from the drones, as well as the amount given in rotation rewards. Unless they even look at that, this whole thing feels like it's been bandaged together, and that bandage is gonna come apart as soon as it gets wet. 

Edited by RivaAurelius
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Just now, RivaAurelius said:

This would be alright IF they adjusted the arbitration drop tables to not include useless items AND buffed the amount of Vitus Essence that was dropped from the drones, as well as the amount given in rotation rewards. Unless they even look at that, this whole thing feels like it's been bandaged together, and that bandage is gonna come apart as soon as it gets wet. 

Idk, I can get 30 Vitus Essence in like 30-45 min in an Arbitration with buffs I like, I can't reliably find a group to make it through a Steel Path mission on Earth

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I'm shocked people rooted for Arbitrations over The Steel Path when the mode:

  • Is heavily restrictive on mission pool
  • Alert style meaning you need to play on DE's schedule for good mission selection and missions rotate every hour. Not being able to play at your own leisure is what makes Eidolon night cycles, the old alert system, and Fissures unappealing.
  • Vitus Essence gains are vastly different per mission due to TTK (small defense tiles, faction differences, gamemodes)
  • Rotation Rewards are earned at different rates
  • Builds are much more restricted due to requiring nukes specifically on only very specific maps
  • RNG buffs to randomized equipment within the mode

You need to play The Steel Path for the Arcanes for this equipment progression anyway. Instead of killing 2 birds with one stone players are going to be dividing their grind and doing even more. I thought this playerbase didn't like more grind lol.

Edited by Voltage
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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Primary and Secondary Merciless Arcanes:
- Reduced MERCILESS Arcanes Duration from 6 to 4 secs
Why: We’re simply continuing to balance these (even after posting)! In practice, we felt lowering it was a better start given the pace of true Merciless enemy killing!

Does Primary Merciless Arcane include all forms of killing such as melee, primary, secondary, warframe power, parazon? I know there is a melee dedicated on kill condition for Primary Dexterity Arcane. It appears to be more focused on melee benefiting the user with higher duration per stack than merciless for those players that want to purely use melee. I assume merciless is for players that want to kill any way possible without being pigeon holed into one way of killing an enemy to gain stacks for the arcane buff. Especially with the duration being reduced to 4s per stack.

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Particularly I only use warframe whose abilities can kill high levels like khora, baruk, ember, mesa, atlas.... in my thinking if a warframe can't kill with its high level abilities then it sucks(this is my personal opinion, you can judge me if you want) the nerf in blood rush it will only affect the khora and the atlas, but your killing skills are already ridiculously strong so maybe it doesn't matter so for me these weapons changes make no difference to me, but one thing that really pisses me off is my sentry being dead when the enemies reach level 200 or my kavat/kubrow down to just 1 or 2 hit, when will they change that? "bUt tHeRe iS a nEw mOd tHaT rRvIvEs tTe sEnTineL wHeN FIniSHeS 3 eNeMIeS wItH PAraZoN" no one uses or will use that...... vulpaphyla are the only useful companions against high levels just because they "don't die"

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I am glad that you moved the galvanized mods to another place, even tho i hate gridning for vitus essence (more of a "me" thing really, i just don't like endless missions lol) , also some modifications to those mods are nice (changing the base MS for the pistol and shotgun mod was a wise move). But i am still really dissapointed, you still don't touch the actual weapons, the actual gunplay and expect mods to fix the disparity between guns and melee on the steel path. Even with the nerfs that you will give to melee, gunplay will still be left behind.

The mods and arcanes are welcomed, but i think there is much more to be done if you want to make gunplay relevant on the Steel Path. (more done to guns/archguns i mean).

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10 minutes ago, (PSN)MistahPringles said:

Idk, I can get 30 Vitus Essence in like 30-45 min in an Arbitration with buffs I like, I can't reliably find a group to make it through a Steel Path mission on Earth

Yeh, I usually solo steel path with a smeeta and maybe a resource booster. Sometimes I use a frame with a looting build, but I prefer to just camp survivals. My point is though that because of the way the rotations and the drop tables work, it is far too RNG based to lock these mods behind the shop UNLESS they look at and adjust the way the drop tables work. You CAN get 30-40 vitus essence from an endurance run on arbitrations, or you can get unlucky because of RNG and wind up getting between 15-25. Getting vitus essence should be much more reliable, and they should consider applying similar changes to the changes they are making with steel path. For example: making the drones drop more essence. People don't like arbitrations in it's current state because it is unfulfilling and unrewarding. What can you buy from the arbitrations shop? Not much. Once you've bought the small amount of valuable stuff, and you've grinded the mods and arcanes you want, there isn't much reason to play it. The steel path shop with Teshin at least offers rewards that you will always need and can always use more of, like forma, umbra forma, kuva, etc. Arbitrations needs some of the love that is being shown to steel path.

Edit: Another thing that needs to happens is the mission types need to be more diverse and there needs to be a selection of arbitration missions available at one time. Why are we being limited to one type of mission every hour? 

Edited by RivaAurelius
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36 minutes ago, VhwatGoes said:

Beam weapons are too strong.

They have broken scaling with multishot bonuses on status damage, giving them a major edge on all other guns. Since deadlock protocol, Multishot has affected both base damage and status chance, resulting in a double-dipping from multishot bonuses on status damage, much like Faction mods but far stronger.

Is this going to be balanced? Status damage just needs to be divided by the multishot factor.

Dude they’re beams. Unless a weapons actively inhibiting other players from playing the game because your weapon nukes half a map there should be no reason for something to be nerfed.

Beams are narrow damage trails.

Melee has limited range.

Neither of these things should be nerfed.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades! 

 

If you can't handle The Steel Path enemies without Galvanized Mods on Primary and Secondary, do you really deserve them to begin with?

These mods are equipment progression. Lowering the bar for players like you did to Helminth, Plains of Eidolon Remaster and Scarlet Spear/Orphix Venom only encourages players to put less effort in their loadout and expect more handholding. I don't see why Galvanized Mods need to be accessible for people who can't complete the Steel Path without them. Likewise, Arbitrations are worse than Steel Path in terms of viable farming availability and the fact this change will divide players in their grind for these items instead of farming these mods while getting the Arcanes through the Steel Path and Teshin's Honors.

Edited by Voltage
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6 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Hot take: If you can't handle The Steel Path enemies without these mods on Primary and Secondary, you don't deserve to own them unless you trade for them.

These mods are equipment progression. Lowering the bar for players like you did to Helminth, Plains of Eidolon Remaster and Scarlet Spear/Orphix Venom only encourages players to put less effort in their loadout and expect more handholding. I don't see why Galvanized Mods need to be accessible for people who can't complete the Steel Path without them. Likewise, Arbitrations are worse than Steel Path in terms of viable farming availability and the fact this change will divide players in their grind for these items instead of farming these mods while getting the Arcanes through the Steel Path and Teshin's Honors.

The whole reason for these mods is to make the majority of primary and secondary weapons remotely usable in steel path. How are you supposed to get the mods if you don't have the weapon power required to play the game mode? You think your melee is gonna get you through the missions? Hot take, it won't, because melee is, ironically enough, about to be hit with a nerf hammer. I will probably rely on warframe abilities to do the majority of the grunt work after this update drops. Don't work harder, work smarter. 

Edit: I would like to add that I largely solo'd the steel path when it first came out, and completed it shortly after it's release. Just want to add this in case my cred as a player is brought into question. 

Edited by RivaAurelius
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28 minutes ago, CodeVauban said:

My only problem with mods dropping from arbitrations is that every arbitration rotation is already filled with trash.

Pretty sure it means the Arbitration store. I mean I hope it’s the store. Seems kind of ridiculous to me to move the mods from the Steel Path store to Arbitration’s already bloated drop tables. 

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2 hours ago, ScionNinja14 said:

How are people supposed to get mods to kill steel path enemies by farming the steel path which they can't kill enemies in?

You know... Steel Path putting the player at a disadvantage isn't something that farfetched... the Entire Game literally does that everywhere since U7 (and probably before), and people kill enemies in several parts of the game outside Steel Path.

 

... After all, Steel Path is basically the game before DE made Warframe completely and utterly super trivial with their consecutive changes to make current Normal Star Chart more "accessible" to "players"...

 

And in this game, where up to 4 players can squad up, those so called "disadvantages" become negligibly existent... All they need to do is to simply play the game differently than what they did in Normal Star Chart...

 

... But I digress...

Edited by Uhkretor
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3 hours ago, .Khaos. said:

Why, just why...

They literally explained why in the post. It would be dumb to earn these mods in the Steel Path if you need these mods to even attempt Steel Path with gun combat. So Arbitration is the next best way. I support it because there was no way I was attempting Steel Path to earn these.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Primary
- Galvanized Scope - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Aptitude - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Chamber - Stack count increased from 4 to 5. Mod Capacity increased from 14 to 16

Shotgun
- Galvanized Acceleration - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Savvy - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
 Galvanized Hell - Base Multishot increased from 80% to 110%. Mod Capacity increased from 14 to 16

Secondary
- Galvanized Crosshairs - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Shot - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Diffusion - Base multishot increased from 80% to 110%. Mod Capacity increased from 12 to 14

Monkey's paw in action: realistically, players will run Chamber/Hell/Diffusion and one of the others. So thanks a bunch DE, you just did exactly nothing re: mod capacity changes.

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12 minutes ago, RivaAurelius said:

The whole reason for these mods is to make the majority of primary and secondary weapons remotely usable in steel path. How are you supposed to get the mods if you don't have the weapon power required to play the game mode? You think your melee is gonna get you through the missions? Hot take, it won't, because melee is, ironically enough, about to be hit with a nerf hammer. I will probably rely on warframe abilities to do the majority of the grunt work after this update drops. Don't work harder, work smarter. 

Weapons come with progression. Not all weapons should be viable otherwise you water down the arsenal and make choices even less meaningful. You don't need melee to survive the entire Steel Path starchart. There's plenty of abilities and weapons that can aid you in missions. Eclipse, Vex Armor, Roar, Amp, Seeking Shuriken, Snowglobe, Mass Vitrify, Whipclaw, Reservoirs, Toxic Lash, Venom Dose, Shock Trooper, Shields, Catchmoon, Tombfinger, Sonar, Molecular Prime, headshot multipliers, most sniper rifles, most bows, Synapse, Convectrix, Phantasma, Epitaph, and Kuva weapons just to name a few.

Melee is being nerfed but not really by a whole lot to be quite honest. There's plenty of non-melee abilities that work in the Steel Path. Maybe start building your weapons properly if you are struggling.

Something I see most players do (to name a few):

  • Not using 55% final damage from Primed Faction Damage mods
  • Stacking the same multipliers and having diminishing returns on builds (Heavy Caliber, Augur Pact)
  • Using the wrong elements for the mission
  • Choosing lower end/lower progression weapons which do not perform well in their given mission

I still don't see the problem with these mods being locked behind Steel Path. Again:

15 minutes ago, Voltage said:

If you can't handle The Steel Path enemies without Galvanized Mods on Primary and Secondary, do you really deserve them to begin with?

These mods are equipment progression.

Edited by Voltage
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28 minutes ago, CanOfCraig said:

Please Consider:

Impact is still going to be sitting in a largely un attractive state. Making it only preform an effect on 5 enemy types + eximus units removes many of the use case situations parazon kills could be useful. (strategic AOE blind, a way to spawn health and energy orbs, a way to refill guns [something that would have been really interesting to use with the new mods], and so on)

To be fair, at least Impact has both the Parazon thing AND bleed proc mods (Internal Bleeding, Hemorrhage...). Puncture on the other hand...

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3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

3) Galvanized Mod Acquisition:

Moved all Galvanized Mods to Arbitrations from Steel Path. 

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades!

Come on, Arbitrations is even worse. In SP we still have a choice on the missions, for the Arbitrations we don't have choices.

If really thinkng about letting players to have the new mods not too easy not too hard, why not developing a new mission method lol

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