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FidelityFX SuperResolution (FSR) support?


DtZNimpo
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As the title says do you guys plan on adding or supporting this new technology from AMD ? As it increases performance over a wide range of hardware both AMD and Nvidia GPU and APU.

I don't particularly have performance issue your game is really well optimised as it is, amazing job on that 10/10, But there's always improvements to be made. I myself prefer to play at 1440p 144hz with my current hardware that's doable (steady 130+fps) in some mission tho depending on whats going on if it's in a plain or railjack or regular mission thats action packed , i may dip in the 60 or lower in native 1440p. So i resort to using Sapphire Trixx software to create a custom resolution of 2304x1296 making the experience in those action pack mission closer to the 130+ fps. The quality of the image does get hit a bit but the performance gain is much better , on the downside it forces me to play fullscreen i'd rather play borderless.

With this new FSR i could have both good quality image , borderless gaming , high frame rates.

And for you guys being one of the early adptor of that new Technology AMD released on june 22nd.

 

-A Lone Tenno with 1650 hours played time.

Edited by DtZNimpo
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since it's a fairly easy to support Module, basically may as well, some people would appreciate it.

that being said, people being GPUbound in Warframe isn't all that common so it won't benefit most Players. if it works on iGPU's those would appreciate it, though.

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1 hour ago, taiiat said:

since it's a fairly easy to support Module, basically may as well, some people would appreciate it.

that being said, people being GPUbound in Warframe isn't all that common so it won't benefit most Players. if it works on iGPU's those would appreciate it, though.

It works on a wide vareity of GPUs, even on iGPUs. But in the end, this feature requires developer integration and maintenance. It's up to DE to support it or not.

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this need to happen, it has better quality than the ingame dinamic resolution and can improve performance on consoles as well

... and need this, I have an old apu 7850k with no dedicated gpu, its still playable but having more fps for free its always welcome 

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Warframes implementtion of radeon boost is pretty awesome so combining the 2 would probably lead to some nice gains on older cards.

Although i've upgraded to a rx6800, I still have memories of how my rx 580 was performing at 1440p UW and how i wished there was a better scaling method ingame.

Warframes TXAA has allot of grainy edges and odd artifacts that drove me nuts when focusing on fashion frame.

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I would like this as well. It would be nice to have at least one game I enjoy playing able to use this. None of the others I play will probably ever get it. FSR is a nice idea but pretty useless since it has to be supported by the game. And 99.99999999999999999% of games don't and will never support it. AMD should have came up with an option that could have supported all titles and then it would have been worthwhile. As it stands, not so much since only a few games actually support it and even 2 of those aren't released yet.

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Man I do hope they support it, people using APUs like me would really benefit from that. Just having the in game settings and some tweaks in the drivers aren't enough most of the time to have a stable gameplay at times. They should probably try and get it to work if ever.

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On 2021-06-23 at 12:42 AM, DtZNimpo said:

 it increases performance over a wide range of hardware both AMD and Nvidia GPU and APU.

 released on june 22nd.

You need to take that with a grain of salt.
What was announced was the formal addition of their improved upscaler 'FSR' to the FidelityFX suite and importantly, that is would be OPEN SOURCE. The FidelityFX suite that is it part of has been around for a while and a large pile of studios are using (parts of) it already.
What they actually claim, is that this FSR has 2.4x performance compared to rendering full resolution 4k unscaled.

Ok? Compared to unscaled. Not compared to existing upscalers. Which may be uglier while being faster. Or just entirely worse than 'FSR'.

Pay attention to the details: that 2.4x is on the "performance" setting, which is just one out of 4 presets.
 

Quote

AMD FSR offers four quality settings – Ultra Quality, Quality, Balanced and Performance – allowing gamers to adjust the balance between image quality and performance based on their preferences

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/radeon-software-fidelityfx

Now pay attention to the demo image on that page. It is with the "ultra quality mode". This becomes important if you are looking for that "magic" 2.4x to your framerate. Because as I pointed to before, that kind of gain was on the "performance" setting, the opposite end of the scale of "ultra quality". So expect FSR to be less pretty than the demo image when you are looking for framerate.
It's not to poo-poo AMD's stuff, but it would be fair to demo more common settings as well, to get more realistic expectations.

https://www.amd.com/en/press-releases/2021-06-22-amd-fidelityfx-super-resolution-amd-brings-high-quality-high-resolution

Lord knows we could all benefit from a open common standard. Specially if it is *both* better looking AND faster, than the usual "roll our own" implementations of upscaling/dynamic resolution that so many games have done. Else we get reruns of vendorspecific stuff, like (amd)freesync vs (nvidia)gsync and a decade+ of vendorspecific OpenGL extensions before Vulkan came along, and the whole nvidia-centric PhysX thing.

I am not optimistic when it comes to seeing this in warframe, they are hostile enough about changes and how things should be. It could further be the case that WF dynamic res upscale is already faster, but just is not as visually advanced.

And I do want you to manage your expectations. If you want to jump from 30fps to 60+ from this, the quality could well be a lot less than you hope for.
"no free lunch" applies, despite years of effort from industry leaders, so if the rig is just way out of its league for the resolution that you want, this won't magically make it a steroid badboy that can lift.
Nvidia is even resorting to hardware based machinelearning in the 3000 series to help them do some realtime adaptive improvement, just to paint you a picture of the efforts to keep framerate up, in the face of rising pixelcounts and graphical complexity.

Anyway, back on track, remember, the claimed jump is compared to unscaled and on FSR's lowest quality setting, not compared to what warframe dynamic/scaled res is doing for you already if you have it turned on. No doubt they have already paid attention to that fact, done their own calculations and decided against it. Could be wrong, but unlikely.
Too much hope in this thread, WF is just not a lightweight anymore (if it ever was) and 4k is not a trivial amount of pixel per frame.

Edit to add: "4k" is almost misleading. It is really ~8.3M pixels on a '4k' screen and ~2.1M pixels on the old 1080p.

Edited by Morteno
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After seeing real world use of FSR, I was a little bummed out myself. I mistook it as a way to bump up image quality and get more frames while doing so. That isn't the case at all. Even on the ultra quality mode, you could tell the difference in quality between it and the native ( without using it ) picture. And it just went downhill from there as far as quality went. It did however boost frame rates so at least it does that. If you can run any game on high or ultra settings above 35fps, this probably isn't something you need. For older systems or maybe budget systems that struggle to play games, then I can see this being useful.

So, just to make sure everyone knows, this does not improve image quality in any way. It is just for increasing your frame rates in a game. How much will depend on what game, what resolution and settings you choose for said game, and your hardware.

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On 2021-06-25 at 11:14 PM, Morteno said:

You need to take that with a grain of salt.
What was announced was the formal addition of their improved upscaler 'FSR' to the FidelityFX suite and importantly, that is would be OPEN SOURCE. The FidelityFX suite that is it part of has been around for a while and a large pile of studios are using (parts of) it already.
What they actually claim, is that this FSR has 2.4x performance compared to rendering full resolution 4k unscaled.

Ok? Compared to unscaled. Not compared to existing upscalers. Which may be uglier while being faster. Or just entirely worse than 'FSR'.

Pay attention to the details: that 2.4x is on the "performance" setting, which is just one out of 4 presets.
 

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/radeon-software-fidelityfx

Now pay attention to the demo image on that page. It is with the "ultra quality mode". This becomes important if you are looking for that "magic" 2.4x to your framerate. Because as I pointed to before, that kind of gain was on the "performance" setting, the opposite end of the scale of "ultra quality". So expect FSR to be less pretty than the demo image when you are looking for framerate.
It's not to poo-poo AMD's stuff, but it would be fair to demo more common settings as well, to get more realistic expectations.

https://www.amd.com/en/press-releases/2021-06-22-amd-fidelityfx-super-resolution-amd-brings-high-quality-high-resolution

Lord knows we could all benefit from a open common standard. Specially if it is *both* better looking AND faster, than the usual "roll our own" implementations of upscaling/dynamic resolution that so many games have done. Else we get reruns of vendorspecific stuff, like (amd)freesync vs (nvidia)gsync and a decade+ of vendorspecific OpenGL extensions before Vulkan came along, and the whole nvidia-centric PhysX thing.

I am not optimistic when it comes to seeing this in warframe, they are hostile enough about changes and how things should be. It could further be the case that WF dynamic res upscale is already faster, but just is not as visually advanced.

And I do want you to manage your expectations. If you want to jump from 30fps to 60+ from this, the quality could well be a lot less than you hope for.
"no free lunch" applies, despite years of effort from industry leaders, so if the rig is just way out of its league for the resolution that you want, this won't magically make it a steroid badboy that can lift.
Nvidia is even resorting to hardware based machinelearning in the 3000 series to help them do some realtime adaptive improvement, just to paint you a picture of the efforts to keep framerate up, in the face of rising pixelcounts and graphical complexity.

Anyway, back on track, remember, the claimed jump is compared to unscaled and on FSR's lowest quality setting, not compared to what warframe dynamic/scaled res is doing for you already if you have it turned on. No doubt they have already paid attention to that fact, done their own calculations and decided against it. Could be wrong, but unlikely.
Too much hope in this thread, WF is just not a lightweight anymore (if it ever was) and 4k is not a trivial amount of pixel per frame.

Edit to add: "4k" is almost misleading. It is really ~8.3M pixels on a '4k' screen and ~2.1M pixels on the old 1080p.

Did AMD do something bad to you?

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25 minutes ago, TeamKingdoom_King said:

 

Did AMD do something bad to you?

Not at all. I have no major regrets about all the AMD hardware I have had, when I remember to compare what the alternatives were at the time.

Maybe I rambled a bit like an old slashdotter. I've just seen a lot through the years and so many on old hardware grasping at straws when they'd be much better of not getting their hopes up. Been there, done that, don't wish it on others.

I think AMD did a neat thing here, we just need to be realistic about the limitations.

If you look at it reasonably, it is a thing aimed at getting a tolerable framerate on 1440p or 4k (high res, high pixel density), with hardware & games that can not really deliver that. Which is a commendable thing, since there is a bunch of people out there trying to run resolutions that they do not have the rig to do in a satisfying manner.
A good upscaler kinda works ok for 4k, because the pixel density is generally much higher than on 1080p displays, where casual observer wont notice as much as when you do upscaling on "large pixel" 1080p screens. Many, specially consolers playing on a TV, have viewing conditions where they need to be wearing glasses to notice every detail when looking at 1080p, to say nothing of 4k.
Particularly in that scenario, and with a 4k tv, you can "afford some detail loss", unlike on a 1080p TV where upscaling quickly begins looking like high quality VHS or a old SNES.

I have next to no illusions of what upscaling can do (and cant do) and if you think I have something against AMD then you took it the wrong way. What I was aiming for was imparting some of my experience to nip false hope of magic extra framerate in the bud.
I have no worthwhile reason to believe AMD was being dishonest about the capabilities of FSR, so I am sure FSR will do well at its intended task: Doing better looking upscaling (by virtue of integration allowing it to make better edge reconstruction/sharpening) than the various "postprocess" level homegrown scalers that games have been using, that frankly make people want to turn scaling off and live with lower resolution or lower framerate.

Just remember some simple calculations:
Rendering 1080p is about 4x faster than 4k.
There is some CPU overhead, so not directly 4x. And scene complexity mostly ignores resolution, so no major gain here. That aside, it's mostly about pixelcount.
FSR was only announced to do 2.4x vs 4k.
In other words, it is competing against this: You could render 1080p and let your monitor/tv scale up for you for a 4x gain.
Meaning, for FSR to make sense, it has to give you enough quality vs device-scaling 1080p to 4k, to justify being considerably slower.
It's as simple as that. That is where the game studios have to find a niche for it. Look better on 4k than device-scaled 1080p does, while still giving enough speed to not just drop down to 1080p.
And if we have to dig a bit more: device-scaled 1440p is also knocking on the door. That is about 2x faster than 4k, so FSR has a speed edge, but does it still have a quality edge then?

It is not about having anything against AMD at all. It is about the practicality of FSR, and to some intent the false belief in "magical" upscalers giving 2x framerate for free.

I do honestly apologize for one thing though. It was untimely of me (DE does not post in the weekend) and it is of course up to DE to decide whether to add this as an alternative to Warframes existing upscaler and it is not my job to answer that. I too find it offensive when others do that kind of thing before the relevant party has had time to respond.

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Its been very hard to get a new GPU in the last 6 months. While higher resolution ultrawide screens have started become more accessible. Technologies like FSR and TXAA was the only option to gaining back some performance while waiting out the GPU drought.

Although thinking about it. I wonder if FSR is compatible with the way Warframes UI is rendered.

18 hours ago, Sepharoth said:

After seeing real world use of FSR, I was a little bummed out myself. I mistook it as a way to bump up image quality and get more frames while doing so. That isn't the case at all. Even on the ultra quality mode, you could tell the difference in quality between it and the native ( without using it ) picture.

I think any improvements visually are only likely on games with large objects and fast motion, racing games for example. They currently suffer awfull amounts of artifacts and ghosting on TXAA and DLSS. (2 examples being watch dogs legion, Assetto Corsa Competizione).

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2021-06-25 at 5:14 PM, Morteno said:

You need to take that with a grain of salt.
What was announced was the formal addition of their improved upscaler 'FSR' to the FidelityFX suite and importantly, that is would be OPEN SOURCE. The FidelityFX suite that is it part of has been around for a while and a large pile of studios are using (parts of) it already.
What they actually claim, is that this FSR has 2.4x performance compared to rendering full resolution 4k unscaled.

Ok? Compared to unscaled. Not compared to existing upscalers. Which may be uglier while being faster. Or just entirely worse than 'FSR'.

Pay attention to the details: that 2.4x is on the "performance" setting, which is just one out of 4 presets.
 

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/radeon-software-fidelityfx

Now pay attention to the demo image on that page. It is with the "ultra quality mode". This becomes important if you are looking for that "magic" 2.4x to your framerate. Because as I pointed to before, that kind of gain was on the "performance" setting, the opposite end of the scale of "ultra quality". So expect FSR to be less pretty than the demo image when you are looking for framerate.
It's not to poo-poo AMD's stuff, but it would be fair to demo more common settings as well, to get more realistic expectations.

https://www.amd.com/en/press-releases/2021-06-22-amd-fidelityfx-super-resolution-amd-brings-high-quality-high-resolution

Lord knows we could all benefit from a open common standard. Specially if it is *both* better looking AND faster, than the usual "roll our own" implementations of upscaling/dynamic resolution that so many games have done. Else we get reruns of vendorspecific stuff, like (amd)freesync vs (nvidia)gsync and a decade+ of vendorspecific OpenGL extensions before Vulkan came along, and the whole nvidia-centric PhysX thing.

I am not optimistic when it comes to seeing this in warframe, they are hostile enough about changes and how things should be. It could further be the case that WF dynamic res upscale is already faster, but just is not as visually advanced.

And I do want you to manage your expectations. If you want to jump from 30fps to 60+ from this, the quality could well be a lot less than you hope for.
"no free lunch" applies, despite years of effort from industry leaders, so if the rig is just way out of its league for the resolution that you want, this won't magically make it a steroid badboy that can lift.
Nvidia is even resorting to hardware based machinelearning in the 3000 series to help them do some realtime adaptive improvement, just to paint you a picture of the efforts to keep framerate up, in the face of rising pixelcounts and graphical complexity.

Anyway, back on track, remember, the claimed jump is compared to unscaled and on FSR's lowest quality setting, not compared to what warframe dynamic/scaled res is doing for you already if you have it turned on. No doubt they have already paid attention to that fact, done their own calculations and decided against it. Could be wrong, but unlikely.
Too much hope in this thread, WF is just not a lightweight anymore (if it ever was) and 4k is not a trivial amount of pixel per frame.

Edit to add: "4k" is almost misleading. It is really ~8.3M pixels on a '4k' screen and ~2.1M pixels on the old 1080p.

Uh dude chill. Btw i know how it works I played GodFall one of the first title to support AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution and let me tell you that the quality doesn't get a big hit VS the performance gain, Of course it won't be as pretty as Native or Better looking than Native that is not the point. The point is it's being able to retain as close to Native resolution quality while increasing performance because of less of a load to render on the gpu.

Something similar have already been done for awhile in cyberpunk 2077 for example you have AMD FidelityFX CAS static / dynamic which adjust your resolution scale this is not the same as FSR, but the result is also a big improvement in performance the image quality do take a bigger hit than FSR tho.

there is also Sapphire GPU of AMD that have their own tool called Sapphire Trixx which enables you to do something similar to CAS / FSR which upscales the image while reducing the resolution scale which in turn give you better performance while reducing the quality of the image a bit. also gives you a custom resolution to set in game and in windows. for example 1440p which is 2160x1440p normally would now be 2304x1296p with a 90% resolution scale, image quality doesnt change much but theres big improvement in performance. That's just a third party tool which simulate the CAS / FSR but it's not widely spread and only a very limited of hardware can support / use that. In the contrary AMD FSR can be implement in past , present , future games for a wide variety of support on hardware even on console! 

 

For gamers that is alot better than Nvidia DLSS as the support for hardware is wider more accessible, games support is also wider and more accessible. Do you realise that for game dev to support DLSS they have to go thru Nvidia front end submit the game that the AI will run thru countless of iteration then release the cache of that data thru a Nvidia update ? I'm sorry but that's just not game dev nor user friendly. You cannot have free performance gain without sacrificing a bit of image quality compared to Native claiming that DLSS can do that is just absurd because of how limited the application is , only a very selected titles can really say "Yes this looks better with DLSS on".

 

last note the current Dynamic Resolution Scale warframe has , is nothing like AMD FidelityFX CAS nor FSR Nor DLSS, it's something else entirely, it's close to AMD Radeon Boost tho , it lowers the resolution when there's alot of action in the scene to keep a steady frame rate. In the case of Radeon boost it does this when you move your camera around.

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On 2021-06-27 at 10:09 AM, Sepharoth said:

After seeing real world use of FSR, I was a little bummed out myself. I mistook it as a way to bump up image quality and get more frames while doing so. That isn't the case at all. Even on the ultra quality mode, you could tell the difference in quality between it and the native ( without using it ) picture. And it just went downhill from there as far as quality went. It did however boost frame rates so at least it does that. If you can run any game on high or ultra settings above 35fps, this probably isn't something you need. For older systems or maybe budget systems that struggle to play games, then I can see this being useful.

So, just to make sure everyone knows, this does not improve image quality in any way. It is just for increasing your frame rates in a game. How much will depend on what game, what resolution and settings you choose for said game, and your hardware.

I'm sorry but what ??? LOL that is especially WHY you need this! Have you ever played on a 120hz/144hz monitor ? it's a whole different world Warframe benefits ALOT from higher Hz and higher FPS , if you can sacrifice a bit of image quality (btw AMD never ever claimed it would bump the image quality idk why you would assume otherwise) to get that crispy 70-140fps range oh boy that's just exquisite.

 

Also idk if you have actually tried a game that did indeed support AMD FSR, but i did , even reviewers like LTT/GN all say it's pretty decent and there ain't much of an impact on image quality loss , of course it won't be as good looking as native of course you won't get an image quality boost<- lol. but it's close to Native and you really have to pay attention to details and focus on things to really notice what's missing, in a fast moving pace game like warframe 100% you won't notice a difference except maybe if you go with Ultra Performance setting. but on Balanced and higher not a chance to see one, it's just free FPS gain and smoother gameplay across the board.

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  • 4 months later...

FSR when?

 

Like others have said this will mesh really with APUs. 

 

AMD's recently released 5000G series (with WF partnership) would work great for max settings, high FPS gaming with 1080p with FSR. I have tested the 5700G in WF and it performs really well at MAX settings but sub 60 in open world zones though the FPS is very consistent. 

Digital Extremes, make it happen.

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