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Arsenal Divide Thoughts


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This is based on my opinion so and you are entitled to your own opinion.

 

Berserker Fury

This mods nerf in general probably had some of the worst said reasons for getting nerf. That is to the point that it is funny but besides that, in a functional sense its okay. The nerf as a whole won't be too bad if it weren't for the on kill effect instead of on crit. I think that the on kill effect might have been too much of a nerf with berserker considering that it can't stack with primed fury anymore. In the end, you will be getting the same attack speed anyway so the on kill effect it will have now is just a reduction in quality of life and doesn't change anything functionally besides being harder to acquire now. 

Blood Rush

Reducing the percent from 60% to 40% was honestly not even worth it considering that not many weapons can red crit on their own anyway. Take the Kronen Prime for example which is a meta melee weapon, with is base 22% crit chance, it could only achieve as much as orange crits without the assistance of gladiator mods, smeeta kavat, or riven mods. Nerfing the Blood rush in this case would only make the weapon perform less orange crits which in the end doesn't even change much considering the amount of crit bonuses you can have elsewhere. This shows that in the end, blood rush doesn't even give that many weapons the ability to red crit let alone do it consistently. This makes the blood rush nerf almost worthless. If they really wanted to nerf blood rush, 55% or even 50% would have been fine as its only a minor tweak that is less noticeable and still allows for red crits weapons to shine in what they do best anyway. 

Condition Overload

Condition overload got a pretty hard nerf from 120% to an 80% per status. This nerf is probably something I am going to get wrong given how they worded it. It is for that reason that I will run it under two scenarios. For the first one, if the percent got nerfed to 80% and now taking 3 procs to match or be better than primed pressure point, then I think that it is fine. however I think 80% was just a bit too much on the nerfs. Something around the lines of 90-100% would have been fine with a nerf. Now running off of the second scenario where condition overload now has 3 procs max, then I think that the kuva nukor nerf should be reverted given how well they synergize with each other. If this scenario is right and the kuva nukor nerfs happen, this will make condition overload completely obsolete with the amount of targets it can affect and the damage it can pull. However, given this nerf, it really is hard to know until the nerfs actually happen.

Glaive and Kuva Nukor 

These two nerfs are something I don't have an opinion on. Glaives are weapons I don't use at all so I really wouldn't know how much the nerfs would affect it and the Kuva Nukor nerfs don't affect me that much because I don't mind using other secondaries. However their nerfing of a lot of meta weapons is something I don't agree with. Not the idea of nerfing them per say but more how much they nerf those meta weapons. I don't mind them nerfing very powerful weapons but only make them as effective as most other A tier weapons instead of making them lower than that. 

Galvanized Mods

This addition along with arcanes is something I am pretty meh about. The Addition of Galvanized mods to me is okay and given they had their capacity dropped, makes them a better addition, but I adding them was kind of a very quick and lazy way of buffing primaries and secondaries . Primaries and secondaries need to be changed functionally for them to be in my opinion, more viable and much more fresh. Adding mods that scale while they will buff the damage and effectiveness of the weapons, that is all it will change. It will feel the same way as it has for many years and I think changing how they work is how they can not only be more effective, but also feel more different thus giving an incentive to use them more. 

Arcanes

Another addition I really don't have an opinion about and even then, I think my views would be similar to the Galvanized mods. 

 

 

Overall

Overall, this update is okay, it isn't game breaking or going to make the game completely different but, it needs improvements. A lot of the changes in this update feel a bit useless or excessive which is sadly a common occurrence. Some of the stat or functionality changes to me seem a bit too much for them to seem viable and I think that is a big problem. The changes should have just been a stat decrease to reduce its effectiveness without making it just also harder to use. The addition of new arcanes and mods is something I am not too worried about besides the pretty big mod capacity and acquisition of them. 

 

I don't believe in the idea of only buffing everything to reach the level of the meta because doing so would only make the game less fun. While it is a power fantasy game, it shouldn't be so easy. So nerfing is the easiest way to fix that but I think what DE needs to improve on is how much they Nerf things. A lot of nerfs they do are just too much and for us to really know if they are too much, set up some sort of testing server or if you really don't want to, create a hub to test these things. Maybe make it a mode you can toggle on and off in the simulacrum where you can turn on or off changes coming in the next update. 

 

 

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I wrote a long paragraph but it started to become nonsense so I'll just tl;dr.

In my opinion they didn't nerf melee enough. I would've really slammed the attack speed via reducing it on all melee weapons by 30% on top of the Berserker changes. I also would've nerfed follow through.

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3 hours ago, Kraethius said:

I wrote a long paragraph but it started to become nonsense so I'll just tl;dr.

In my opinion they didn't nerf melee enough. I would've really slammed the attack speed via reducing it on all melee weapons by 30% on top of the Berserker changes. I also would've nerfed follow through.

That's why I want DE to make the decisions and not you. 

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...

I can't take those "in my opinion" anymore.

Do you wanna flash your opinion ? Or do you wanna have an actual discussion ?

Because you generally can't construct a point about technical topics such as this one, and also benefit from the shielding of it being your personnal opinion.

Because then, not a single thing you said holds any water, since it's all your subjective opinion, why care ? 

But hey, it's my opinion.

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I don't care ether way.  What I do care about is DE saying we are going to do 90% buffs and 10% nerfs. . This like many things DE say didn't turn out to be true. 

So my mane take from this is When DE say something it doesn't mean anything. .  And what poeple are talking about is  this update will be the definition of "Grind is Content " thier taking things away from the player and giving them nothing,  unless you grind for it all over agine. ..  

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Just a few points to note so you are better informed

7 hours ago, WildshadowPrime said:

This is based on my opinion so and you are entitled to your own opinion.

 

Berserker Fury

This mods nerf in general probably had some of the worst said reasons for getting nerf. That is to the point that it is funny but besides that, in a functional sense its okay. The nerf as a whole won't be too bad if it weren't for the on kill effect instead of on crit. I think that the on kill effect might have been too much of a nerf with berserker considering that it can't stack with primed fury anymore. In the end, you will be getting the same attack speed anyway so the on kill effect it will have now is just a reduction in quality of life and doesn't change anything functionally besides being harder to acquire now.

It does change things functionally a little bit (or a lot depending on your build) Berserker was a multiplicative mod , Berserker Fury will likely be an additive mod if its similar to (primed) fury. So speed buffs through arcanes/abilities will be noticeably slower. I think they are finally cutting down on all the multiplicative mechanics that exist. (maybe crit damage and viral effects will be next :P)

7 hours ago, WildshadowPrime said:

Blood Rush

Reducing the percent from 60% to 40% was honestly not even worth it considering that not many weapons can red crit on their own anyway. Take the Kronen Prime for example which is a meta melee weapon, with is base 22% crit chance, it could only achieve as much as orange crits without the assistance of gladiator mods, smeeta kavat, or riven mods. Nerfing the Blood rush in this case would only make the weapon perform less orange crits which in the end doesn't even change much considering the amount of crit bonuses you can have elsewhere. This shows that in the end, blood rush doesn't even give that many weapons the ability to red crit let alone do it consistently. This makes the blood rush nerf almost worthless. If they really wanted to nerf blood rush, 55% or even 50% would have been fine as its only a minor tweak that is less noticeable and still allows for red crits weapons to shine in what they do best anyway.

The objective is to have options, Blood rush at max currently gives 60x11 = 660% crit chance bonus at max that also depends on combo counter being up at all times and so might need a mod for combo counter extension. Sacrifical steel gives 220% crit chance by default , true steel at 120% without needing a combo counter mod (or specific focus). and as per proposed changes you will get 440 % CC with bloodrush at max. Is Bloodrush + combo count mod at max combo comparable to Sacrificial steel + other damage/utility mod now leaving most other mods as is ? maybe not in vaccum , but due to the other changes to melee it could be very close.

So i think they put it in an acceptable place.

7 hours ago, WildshadowPrime said:

Condition Overload

Condition overload got a pretty hard nerf from 120% to an 80% per status. This nerf is probably something I am going to get wrong given how they worded it. It is for that reason that I will run it under two scenarios. For the first one, if the percent got nerfed to 80% and now taking 3 procs to match or be better than primed pressure point, then I think that it is fine. however I think 80% was just a bit too much on the nerfs. Something around the lines of 90-100% would have been fine with a nerf. Now running off of the second scenario where condition overload now has 3 procs max, then I think that the kuva nukor nerf should be reverted given how well they synergize with each other. If this scenario is right and the kuva nukor nerfs happen, this will make condition overload completely obsolete with the amount of targets it can affect and the damage it can pull. However, given this nerf, it really is hard to know until the nerfs actually happen.

I will wait until they clarify about the 3 status effects statement to make any further comments , but i am leaning towards scenario 1.

7 hours ago, WildshadowPrime said:

Glaive and Kuva Nukor 

These two nerfs are something I don't have an opinion on. Glaives are weapons I don't use at all so I really wouldn't know how much the nerfs would affect it and the Kuva Nukor nerfs don't affect me that much because I don't mind using other secondaries. However their nerfing of a lot of meta weapons is something I don't agree with. Not the idea of nerfing them per say but more how much they nerf those meta weapons. I don't mind them nerfing very powerful weapons but only make them as effective as most other A tier weapons instead of making them lower than that.

I dont think glaives needed the nerf , but its only for quick attacks , so its actually not going to be noticeable for those that built it for heavy blasts or charged attacks.

I perosnally feel they never should have introduced kuva nukor in its currently bonkers state, It was a nerf waiting to happen from the get go , i am disliking the "release OP at launch , let players have fun at the expense of game balance then nerf it to acceptable states" philosophy which DE seems to have taken up.

Other than that the Nerf itself is valid according to me (they should have made a kuva atomos instead of the kuva nukor IMO) as the weapons will still be pretty powerful , just not bonkers.

7 hours ago, WildshadowPrime said:

Galvanized Mods

This addition along with arcanes is something I am pretty meh about. The Addition of Galvanized mods to me is okay and given they had their capacity dropped, makes them a better addition, but I adding them was kind of a very quick and lazy way of buffing primaries and secondaries . Primaries and secondaries need to be changed functionally for them to be in my opinion, more viable and much more fresh. Adding mods that scale while they will buff the damage and effectiveness of the weapons, that is all it will change. It will feel the same way as it has for many years and I think changing how they work is how they can not only be more effective, but also feel more different thus giving an incentive to use them more.

I agree it was a lazy fix , i think it will make some moderate/situational weapons good , but i dont think it will be making weak weapons any stronger. The on kill condition is not going to help most weapons.

I am going to pretend its not actually an attempt at bridging the gap between guns and melee , and just another update with new mods. Less disappointing that way.

7 hours ago, WildshadowPrime said:

Arcanes

Another addition I really don't have an opinion about and even then, I think my views would be similar to the Galvanized mods.

I feel they are interesting , Firstly they dont take up capacity in the mod loadout , so that's already a plus , but the farm is probably going to be annoying for the first few days or weeks. I already see one arcane simply being staple (the one with melee kills) cause thats what players already do , prime enemies for CO then melee them. Personally i am looking forward to the headshot one for my prisma grinlok which is already tuned to take care of steel path (with some minor difficulty)

7 hours ago, WildshadowPrime said:

Overall

Overall, this update is okay, it isn't game breaking or going to make the game completely different but, it needs improvements. A lot of the changes in this update feel a bit useless or excessive which is sadly a common occurrence. Some of the stat or functionality changes to me seem a bit too much for them to seem viable and I think that is a big problem. The changes should have just been a stat decrease to reduce its effectiveness without making it just also harder to use. The addition of new arcanes and mods is something I am not too worried about besides the pretty big mod capacity and acquisition of them. 

 

I don't believe in the idea of only buffing everything to reach the level of the meta because doing so would only make the game less fun. While it is a power fantasy game, it shouldn't be so easy. So nerfing is the easiest way to fix that but I think what DE needs to improve on is how much they Nerf things. A lot of nerfs they do are just too much and for us to really know if they are too much, set up some sort of testing server or if you really don't want to, create a hub to test these things. Maybe make it a mode you can toggle on and off in the simulacrum where you can turn on or off changes coming in the next update.

I have a similar opinion that the changes are overall okay , nothing that will make things drastically different.

But i feel the nerfs are a good starting point. I will be happy if thats all they do , but they can probably make some more changes to make the gap between meta and non meta lesser.

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7 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

...

I can't take those "in my opinion" anymore.

Do you wanna flash your opinion ? Or do you wanna have an actual discussion ?

Because you generally can't construct a point about technical topics such as this one, and also benefit from the shielding of it being your personnal opinion.

Because then, not a single thing you said holds any water, since it's all your subjective opinion, why care ? 

But hey, it's my opinion.

Niceee

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6 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Just a few points to note so you are better informed

It does change things functionally a little bit (or a lot depending on your build) Berserker was a multiplicative mod , Berserker Fury will likely be an additive mod if its similar to (primed) fury. So speed buffs through arcanes/abilities will be noticeably slower. I think they are finally cutting down on all the multiplicative mechanics that exist. (maybe crit damage and viral effects will be next :P)

The objective is to have options, Blood rush at max currently gives 60x11 = 660% crit chance bonus at max that also depends on combo counter being up at all times and so might need a mod for combo counter extension. Sacrifical steel gives 220% crit chance by default , true steel at 120% without needing a combo counter mod (or specific focus). and as per proposed changes you will get 440 % CC with bloodrush at max. Is Bloodrush + combo count mod at max combo comparable to Sacrificial steel + other damage/utility mod now leaving most other mods as is ? maybe not in vaccum , but due to the other changes to melee it could be very close.

So i think they put it in an acceptable place.

I will wait until they clarify about the 3 status effects statement to make any further comments , but i am leaning towards scenario 1.

I dont think glaives needed the nerf , but its only for quick attacks , so its actually not going to be noticeable for those that built it for heavy blasts or charged attacks.

I perosnally feel they never should have introduced kuva nukor in its currently bonkers state, It was a nerf waiting to happen from the get go , i am disliking the "release OP at launch , let players have fun at the expense of game balance then nerf it to acceptable states" philosophy which DE seems to have taken up.

Other than that the Nerf itself is valid according to me (they should have made a kuva atomos instead of the kuva nukor IMO) as the weapons will still be pretty powerful , just not bonkers.

I agree it was a lazy fix , i think it will make some moderate/situational weapons good , but i dont think it will be making weak weapons any stronger. The on kill condition is not going to help most weapons.

I am going to pretend its not actually an attempt at bridging the gap between guns and melee , and just another update with new mods. Less disappointing that way.

I feel they are interesting , Firstly they dont take up capacity in the mod loadout , so that's already a plus , but the farm is probably going to be annoying for the first few days or weeks. I already see one arcane simply being staple (the one with melee kills) cause thats what players already do , prime enemies for CO then melee them. Personally i am looking forward to the headshot one for my prisma grinlok which is already tuned to take care of steel path (with some minor difficulty)

I have a similar opinion that the changes are overall okay , nothing that will make things drastically different.

But i feel the nerfs are a good starting point. I will be happy if thats all they do , but they can probably make some more changes to make the gap between meta and non meta lesser.

I agree, in the end, not much is changing and I do agree that this might be a good starting point. It was just bad that melee remained pretty untouched for so long that the builds essentially became part of playing the game.

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7 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I think they are finally cutting down on all the multiplicative mechanics that exist. (maybe crit damage and viral effects will be next :P)

Looking at those Arcanes and Galvanized mods I am insanely doubtful of that.

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A rebalance of Firearms similar to the one that made Melee op in the first place would have been better, followed by a rebalance of the mobs we encounter.

I guess that DE can't be bothered to do that though so we get half hearted nerfs and band aid mods/arcanes rather than anything really meaningful.

All this is doing for me is confirming that DE do not understand the game they are creating.

Frankly, that worries me a lot.

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59 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

A rebalance of Firearms similar to the one that made Melee op in the first place would have been better, followed by a rebalance of the mobs we encounter.

I guess that DE can't be bothered to do that though so we get half hearted nerfs and band aid mods/arcanes rather than anything really meaningful.

All this is doing for me is confirming that DE do not understand the game they are creating.

Frankly, that worries me a lot.

I had this dumb Idea where the melee combo counter also affects primaries and secondaries in the same way. Thereby making combo a arsenal mechanic. This could be from mods or probably better, a mechanic. That way, using melee not only can help with generating combo, but also help generate more damage for guns from mods.  This in turn would create more synergy with all the weapons as they all compliment each other. 

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7 hours ago, Aldain said:

Looking at those Arcanes and Galvanized mods I am insanely doubtful of that.

I am not sure if they are multiplicative damage boost or additive boost (to serration) right now. I am leaning towards additive.

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My opinion? Most people are dumb and don't know how to play the game, mod, or use warframe powers that compliment what they're trying to do. 

Oh sorry, you meant on the new arsenal stuff? Eh copy and past what I put above. I'm going to carry on playing the way I do after this update. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

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1 hour ago, Butterfly85 said:

My opinion? Most people are dumb and don't know how to play the game, mod, or use warframe powers that compliment what they're trying to do. 

Oh sorry, you meant on the new arsenal stuff? Eh copy and past what I put above. I'm going to carry on playing the way I do after this update. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Same, it will be sad a little to see some pretty strong builds get their effectiveness lowered a little but in the end, I keep going.

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the arcanes that were supposed to buff guns got nerfed before release

merciless got nerfed from 6s to 4s, not considering if hun mun triggers it, reload and kill time, it has turned to trash and bramma will be the only primary being used

the galvanised status mods look like ass, you'll get better results from 60/60s

if you want to simulate the gun buffs run mirage, it still wont be SP viable even with godly rivens

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb (NSW)flyingspandexguy96:

the arcanes that were supposed to buff guns got nerfed before release

merciless got nerfed from 6s to 4s, not considering if hun mun triggers it, reload and kill time, it has turned to trash and bramma will be the only primary being used

the galvanised status mods look like ass, you'll get better results from 60/60s

if you want to simulate the gun buffs run mirage, it still wont be SP viable even with godly rivens

i finally have a reason to uninstall warframe and madurai prime looks like a DE shill

 

that is the point.
why bring out more garbage when almost all weapons are bad and many mods are not used!
devs apparently want players to shoot the mobs 2-3 longer.

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the fact that the players here are eating these horribly thought out nerfs makes me think that they dont even play the game

every single gun build uses base damage and ms mods just like how every single melee uses CO, BR, WW and BER but unlike melee they have no scaling damage

give give all guns CO and that soma prime aug but remove the reset on reload/holster and they'll be able to compete with melee

360% damage isnt going to do S#&$ when chroma/mirage can already hit 500-1000% damage easily and still struggle without bleed

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb (NSW)flyingspandexguy96:

360% damage isnt going to do S#&$ when chroma/mirage can already hit 500-1000% damage easily and still struggle without bleed

and it is unclear whether there is actually "360%" more damage. or it will depend on other mods and then maybe it will be only 120% damage increase or even less .

the thing is: there are already top riven for bad weapons. and these rives do not help at all, because either it is single target trash or hardly any range or extremely little ammunition etc ...... that was just another epic fail story. even then, the devs tried to somehow balance bad weapons.

 

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13 hours ago, WildshadowPrime said:

I had this dumb Idea where the melee combo counter also affects primaries and secondaries in the same way. Thereby making combo a arsenal mechanic. This could be from mods or probably better, a mechanic. That way, using melee not only can help with generating combo, but also help generate more damage for guns from mods.  This in turn would create more synergy with all the weapons as they all compliment each other. 

This is actually a really interesting and extremely relevant point you just brought up there.

If the objective is to have "players use all weapons" it should have been deliberately worked into the mechanics of the update. Respect.

And of course no reason to not include the helminth expansion into the same concept, to avoid "content islands", while you are at it.

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Even with all the nerfs a max combo melee weapon kills lvl 200 enemies instantly if you get a still red crit and a slash proc even whole squads die. So the nerfs will be felt only by low level players but they mostly dont come in contact with high lvl enemies. And the buff mods will be a static must have mods again.

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20 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

and it is unclear whether there is actually "360%" more damage. or it will depend on other mods and then maybe it will be only 120% damage increase or even less .

the thing is: there are already top riven for bad weapons. and these rives do not help at all, because either it is single target trash or hardly any range or extremely little ammunition etc ...... that was just another epic fail story. even then, the devs tried to somehow balance bad weapons.

 

it being 360% hints at it being calculated as a serration mod since primed chamber is a thing and DE hates fun

you can get more than 300% base damage on a dispo 5 riv with double + and 1 neg

even the vectis prime with its 2 dot dispo can hit 200+% damage under those conditions

Base damage is inherently bad, DE said that they were nerfing CO so that PPP could compete, using silva n aegis p as an example, PPP would push its base damage to 842 and molten impact 604, then considering that CO needs only 3 different procs to surpass PPP post nerf which are easily settled with the stance and that the molten impact can scale off CO, base damage mods will still be trash

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