Has anyone ever thought of making a comprehensive list of all the War Crimes, International Laws and Geneva Convention breaches the Tenno have caused?

[Zahnny]

2 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I mean, I can understand why players would say that there's no nobility in the Tenno, it only requires ignoring all of the instances that demonstrate said nobility after all.

Nah, there is some nobility to the Tenno.

But it becomes a bit harder to take it seriously when I evaporate a room with my [Primed Firestorm] + [Amalgam Furax Body Count] Kuva Ogris and my Tenno says "We fought with Honor." (With Nezha Prime of course. Wouldn't want knockback to get in the way of a good time.)

I think it's more that people have a hard time justifying all the horrific ways we murder Corpus and Grineer. Corrosive face bath anyone?

[(PSN)Jason_V_Jade]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

Among several others, we have assisted the Solaris without expectation of reward in-universe. In fact, most questlines involving civilian factions have the Tenno offer their assistance without payment even being mentioned.

I mean, I can understand why players would say that there's no nobility in the Tenno, it only requires ignoring all of the instances that demonstrate said nobility after all.

I agree,

It seems some just want paint the tenno as evil for some reason.

The tenno only goes after military groups only, not civilians in any shape or form.

[(PSN)Jason_V_Jade]

4 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

I think it's more that people have a hard time justifying all the horrific ways we murder Corpus and Grineer. Corrosive face bath anyone?

It isn't murder, they are enemy combinations, fair game

[Soy77]

2 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

 

I think it's more that people have a hard time justifying all the horrific ways we murder Corpus and Grineer. Corrosive face bath anyone?

I'm the kind of gamer who can play mortal kombat without any guilt whatsoever because i fully understand that it's merely a videogame. Some people don't have as strong separation and got annoyed.

Warframe is warframe. If we disable enemies by thoughtfully slapping them in the face and they pass out it wouldn't be as amusing isn't it?

Videogames are like magic. Modern magic show audiences are fully aware that they're about to see tricks and deceptions -not human with superpowers, yet they still watch them to get entertained. Gamers know what they're playing are just polygons and codes. I don't mind killing million grineers by pouring hot lava because i know i will never even remotely thought about doing it to real people in real life.

[Mints]

It ain't a war crime if nobody can prosecute you for it. Just ask any major world government. They call it "extrajudicial."

[(PSN)robotwars7]

5 hours ago, Zahnny said:

If we were to make a comprehensive list, by counting every single weapon that violates these things, along with the methods Tenno employ, and every observable breach in their history, what would that number total to?

there isn't enough paper, even if you cut down every tree on every planet in the universe.  go digital? there isn't a big enough storage device to hold a document of that size, and if it were stored on more than one, it would be enough HDDs to cover the surface of earth.

the vast majority of our crime is simply Genocides: we wiped out the Orokin, and we kill thousands upon thousands of people daily; but the people we kill are not innocent either. there is no inherent good or bad, only various shades of grey, which is what the universe is: even the Infested can be sympathized with to some degree: it doesn't know how to do anything other than consume everything in it's path, that's the reason the Orokin made it.

speaking of Orokin though, if we had to decide on an absolute worst faction in terms of unlikability, the Orokin easily come out on top; not only did they partake in murders, kidnappings, and torturing people with impunity, they basically bragged about it and were a Prime (pun intended) example of the deadly sin of Pride and Hubris. most written evidence of Orokin activities shows them to be absolute -Redacted-, the three main examples I like being:

- the Eviscerator Synthesis entry, in which an Orokin and her bodyguard are escorted by Grineer slaves as they escape the collapse, but the Orokin openly insults the Grineer and talks trash about them while they're stood next to her, knowing they won't retaliate. unsurprisingly, when the time comes for the Grineer to rebel, one of the slaves brutally murders the Orokin with his cutting tool. she deserved it, because why would you say stuff like that about a brute with a chainsaw when he's right. freaking. there!?

- Grandmother's Naberus Story: in which three bored Orokin kidnap and mutilate three innocent Ostrons to then use their bodies as "costumes" for the Naberus Festival. Karma strikes when the little servant girl takes out some Red Kuva and uses it on their real bodies as they sleep, trapping them forever in the mutilated Ostron bodies. again, they totally deserved it.

- Grendel's Leverian entry, which mentions Karishh, a Gluttonous Orokin with 12 stomachs who feasts daily while the people of his town on Europa starve to death. Grendel buffs the whole town and together (with perhaps a little help from Gauss), they storm the Manse of Karishh and take the place over, and it is implied Grendel chased Karishh out of town but eventually caught up to him and ate him. 

then of course, there's the surviving Orokin, Ballas and Nihil: their actions speak for themselves. the ONLY exclusions to the rule of Orokin are the worst is the Entrati family, and I exclude Son for personal reasons because A: he arguably caused the Infestation on Deimos to begin with, and B: he made me do Conservation which I hate. nice that he doesn't hold a grudge against us for killing all the other Orokin though. conversely, Father is my favourite Orokin, because he's down to earth, sells cool weapons, and introduced us to Necramechs, which are awesome. 

TL;DR: everyone's done a lot of stuff that's really not OK, for their own reasons.

"Everyone thinks they're the hero of their own story" -  Handsome Jack.

[akots]

37 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

speaking of Orokin though, if we had to decide on an absolute worst faction in terms of unlikability, the Orokin easily come out on top

IDK, it is not black and white with the Orokin. Margulis/Lotus is also Orokin,  as well as Silvana and many other people mentioned in the lore. IMHO, Ballas is not exactly sympathetic but he is not clearly evil. It is him who created warframes and tenno as they are and actually sent the Tau expedition probably trying to save everyone from impending doom. Javi was Orokin, Myrmidon was some evil Orokin who hunted warframes but he was actually executed by the Council of Seven after his defeat by Ivara. So, even the Council is not inherently evil. Tuvul, Davis, and Provis are most likely top tier Orokin. The Queens are not particularly evil either, they simply lead one of the races to ensure the survival of this race. Upper corpus leadership is most likely Orokin in one form or another. Finally, tenno themselves and their families have been loyal citizens of the Empire sent on an important mission. The Unum is either Orokin creator or creature, which is totally neutral and probably the most important non-hostile remnant of the Empire together with Cetus.

In general, at least based on the descriptions, the Empire was more peaceful and certainly more appealing than the current situation or pure chaos and endless war with no purpose and no sign of hope fueled by tenno who "strive to keep the balance". Which means even more war in the end. Some anthropologists claim that war is a form of accelerated evolution, an adaptive response, and not an alternative to peace.

[(XBOX)Lady Ukita]

This “Tenno are bad because we kill people and killing people are bad!!!” logic needs to stop. I don’t know why people are so obsessed with saying how villainous and evil the Tenno are when literally any other major faction is infinitely worse in every way, shape, and form. Grineer tried to poison the entire Earth, Corpus literally conduct in trading human body parts, Sentients are basically cartoon villains since they’re essentially trying to destroy the world, Infested are Infested, and Orokins were the true villains.

[Zahnny]

51 minutes ago, (XBOX)Holy Reaper3076 said:

This “Tenno are bad because we kill people and killing people are bad!!!” logic needs to stop. I don’t know why people are so obsessed with saying how villainous and evil the Tenno are when literally any other major faction is infinitely worse in every way, shape, and form. Grineer tried to poison the entire Earth, Corpus literally conduct in trading human body parts, Sentients are basically cartoon villains since they’re essentially trying to destroy the world, Infested are Infested, and Orokins were the true villains.

Geez. I just wanted a thread for a bit of fun, now everyone thinks I'm trying to #Cancel Warframe or something.

I don't understand why everyone is getting so offended over this. Part of the fun is meant to be putting your head into the mindset or perspectives of others, right? Or is that not allowed on the forums?

[Surbusken]

Well, I tried the corinth prime for the first time last night.

And the nerf to that weapon is definitely a galactic crime against the cosmos.

If there had been a video game rights court in Hague I'd definitely filed a report on it, doing petitions etc.

The UN gun I guess, when you take the "F" out of fun, it turns into the un-gun or the un-fun gun. Definitely a crime against video games right there, my god man.

[Soy77]

1 minute ago, Surbusken said:

Well, I tried the corinth prime for the first time last night.

And the nerf to that weapon is definitely a galactic crime against the cosmos.

If there had been a video game rights court in Hague I'd definitely filed a report on it, doing petitions etc.

The UN gun I guess, when you take the "F" out of fun, it turns into the un-gun or the un-fun gun. Definitely a crime against video games right there, my god man.

What?!?

What did they do to my baby?!?!

I'm too afraid to pick her up and find out myself

[Aldain]

31 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

Geez. I just wanted a thread for a bit of fun, now everyone thinks I'm trying to #Cancel Warframe or something.

It's not you Zhanny, it's the topic and the forever "doom n gloom" types constantly painting the Tenno as villains while sticking their fingers in their ears whenever somebody brings up...well pick a Warframe villain being far worse in every possible way.

It's the same rhetoric every time and it just gets boring, the same "Killing is always bad" types in every thread who ignore the fact that discourse has LONG since stopped being an option in Warframe's universe for the most part and frankly the disingenuous universal painting of the Tenno as murder-hobos just becomes exhausting when people purposely deny or avoid the topics of what good we have done for people like the people of Solaris U and Cetus.

I've said it before myself, we might not be heroes in the conventional sense, but anyone who is saying that the universe would be better off with what's running the Corpus or the Grineer are nuts.

[Surbusken]

13 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

What?!?

What did they do to my baby?!?!

I'm too afraid to pick her up and find out myself

lol.

They took the awesome alt fire explosion and deleted it.

Secondary fire is now a sniping projectile, with a tiny hitscan hitbox, that easily misses and is impact damage.

There is also some kind of problem with the reload, I think it forces you to play a longer reload animation for the entire magazine, even when reload after 1 shot, where before you might shoot single rounds and reload after each.

So basically the whole concept of the weapon right out the window. Don't know if there are any other prime weapons where they straight up delete the weapon's concept, lol. Baffling.

We really should have like a video game court or something, any type of regulation, where you could be heard or they could be given written warnings or something.

"3 demerits will lead to a citation, and five citations will lead to a violation. Four violations will lead to a verbal warning. Two verbal warnings will lead to a written warning, and two written warnings will lead to a disciplinary review".

"... let me put it like this, you do not want to get 4 of those".

[Slayer-.]

Solve the real world war crimes and human violations then get back to me. 

The world is a really screwed up place that we can do that to another human. 

Anyone noticed the amount of zombie survival killing games out there? it's because people can except zombies being mass slaughtered than a whole lot of normal people. 😱

There was a game years ago that had a depiction of real normal everyday people in it rather than zombies, I think the scenario was an airport that had been taken over by terrorists and the player had to go into the airport and retake it quietly from the terrorists, only problem was the player bases was just going in and killing anything that moved so real people in the real world saw this and had it banned or changed I cannot remember.

[Zahnny]

14 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

it's because people can except zombies being mass slaughtered than a whole lot of normal people. 😱

Zombies are people too!

[(PSN)Yggranya]

6 hours ago, Awazx said:

The Tenno have NO nobility, no honor. We are Ninja, not Samurais.

You think samurai were good? Now that's hilarious.

Also, is "nobility and honor" supposed to be a free pass for all the horrors people inflict on each other? If yes, then you're using them as humans have used them since forever, as excuses. You might as well just say "Might makes right!".

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 hours ago, Corvid said:

Among several others, we have assisted the Solaris without expectation of reward in-universe. In fact, most questlines involving civilian factions have the Tenno offer their assistance without payment even being mentioned.

I mean, I can understand why players would say that there's no nobility in the Tenno, it only requires ignoring all of the instances that demonstrate said nobility after all.

I dunno. I mostly did it for the good ol’ fashioned joy of killing; any payment would be secondary consideration 😋

My character’s choices have put her more on the dark side of neutral, though. I feel like I’m being misunderstood a little when people celebrate my accomplishments

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

There are no good guys because each fraction's intention is to benefit their own agenda with others, at the cost of others, willing to destroy an entire planet because of others, and instigate an incursion for the sake of others. 

The game even have Invasions where we as the Tenno are hired by Grineer or Corpus to fight the opposing fraction.

Deciding that one valid Justice law apply to the whole Origin System is laughable. Considering how our own Earth have 7 billion people on it at the moment. While Warframe universe, there are numbers of settlements across each Celestial Body.

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

There are no good guys because each fraction's intention is to benefit their own agenda with others, at the cost of others, willing to destroy an entire planet because of others, and instigate an incursion for the sake of others. 

The game even have Invasions where we as the Tenno are hired by Grineer or Corpus to fight the opposing fraction.

Deciding that one valid Justice law apply to the whole Origin System is laughable. Considering how our own Earth have 7 billion people on it at the moment. While Warframe universe, there are numbers of settlements across each Celestial Body.

🤔 Maybe we the Tenno will become the new body of law, unifying the system through force

[Dairaion]

9 hours ago, Zahnny said:

It's no secret that the Tenno who are portrayed as the good guys are...kinda gray in their methods.

The question came to my mind again just recently how killing Crown carriers is kinda the same thing as killing a defenceless religious priest who is trying to flee.

 

If we were to make a comprehensive list, by counting every single weapon that violates these things, along with the methods Tenno employ, and every observable breach in their history, what would that number total to?

Better yet, what would the price of compensation look like?

the geneva convention doesn't exist because geneva got mined into a lake.

[Mints]

4 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

🤔 Maybe we the Tenno will become the new body of law, unifying the system through force

Do you want Red Veil Deathsquads? Because that's how you get Red Veil Deathsquads.

[(NSW)Greybones]

25 minutes ago, Mints said:

Do you want Red Veil Deathsquads? Because that's how you get Red Veil Deathsquads.

Oh Red Veil. Your doctrines are so close to my own beliefs, yet there's no space for nuance in your zealous fervor, and I don't believe you'll be able to stir the hearts of the people while breaking their will at the same time.

Sweet Red Veil, you are close, but ultimately you are not the force that I will align myself to. That's why I shall defeat your Deathsquads in a rousing round of fisticuffs! (🤔 I think they're already pissed at me for aligning with the Arbiters)

[MqToasty]

6 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

Solve the real world war crimes and human violations then get back to me. 

The world is a really screwed up place that we can do that to another human. 

Anyone noticed the amount of zombie survival killing games out there? it's because people can except zombies being mass slaughtered than a whole lot of normal people. 😱

There was a game years ago that had a depiction of real normal everyday people in it rather than zombies, I think the scenario was an airport that had been taken over by terrorists and the player had to go into the airport and retake it quietly from the terrorists, only problem was the player bases was just going in and killing anything that moved so real people in the real world saw this and had it banned or changed I cannot remember.

This.  OP, while I do not mind and even find it fun to philosophize about fictional universes, it becomes really sombering when you realize the answer to your question when applied to the real world.  Once you carefully look at what is happening around the world today, you will realize humanistic ideals like the Geneva convention are merely tools wielded by powerful nations to excuse their abuse of rival nations.  They only apply to you if you are weak -- powerful nations get away with violating whatever they damn well please.

So I really do not blame the devs for taking such a bleak view of humanity.  If Warframe can be summed up in one word that represents it thematically, I would say it is "Hubris".  And what makes us think the Tenno, who are saddled with an unprecedented amount of undeserved power, will fare any better than their Orokin forebearers?

[Tesseract7777]

14 hours ago, Awazx said:

We are not good. They try to make us believe that we are some kind of "hero", but in reality we are just mercenaries selling to the highest bidder.

"Are you just mercenaries? Fighting for scraps? Where is this so-called Tenno honor?"