On-kill buffs only help guns that can, you know, already kill...

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

To people saying "you can kill stuff with primary / secondary, even if it's not meta, so on kill buff will proc'", yes this sentence is true, but also they are missing some points :

"on kill" will be bad for everything butt missions where you have steady flow of ennemies

The ramp up will be slower than melee combo past 15min if you lose your stack.

you NEED to kill more than 1 mob per second in survival, and sometimes you have to find them after clearing a room (thus losing your buffs)

Those buffs are less consistent than x12 combo for which duration can be extended in several ways. This point needs further details about how duration will be adjusted when you kill multiple mobs : either it's a simple refresh of the timer, or the duration stack (like warcry eternal war)

All additionnals buffs (arcane and mods) are triggered with "on kill", so it's all or nothing (people will scatter in survival to get the buffs...)

-> don't make both arcane and mods trigger with "on kill"

-> duration should stack

If there aren't enough enemies to keep the stacks active, then YOU DON'T NEED THE STACKS ACTIVE.  The new mods are REACTIVE to the threat level in the room/mission.  If you're already killing ALL the enemies, why are you worried about not having buffs active when EVERYTHING IS DEAD? lol

When you're surrounded by enemies, these mods/arcanes will shine.  You don't NEED buffs up 24/7.

49 minutes ago, Monolake said:

Yeah its a non-soluition and DE again doesn't play their game, otherwise they would see same few guns dominating high-level play even more than melee. Massive carpet buffs will only make same aoe guns even more dominating. The weak weapons will not be able to compete and will remain unused.

Even no-new-mods Brama or Knukor outperform several-times buffed singletarget mediocre rifle or secondary - you can test it yourself with frame damage buffs.

But its impossible to talk any scene into DE

We'll be fine.   The numbers have been run, and we're fine.  I ran these numbers myself, ran SP the other night... had NO issues killing stuff.

Y'all are panicked over nothing.
 

 

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

il y a une heure, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt a dit :

If there aren't enough enemies to keep the stacks active, then YOU DON'T NEED THE STACKS ACTIVE.  The new mods are REACTIVE to the threat level in the room/mission.  If you're already killing ALL the enemies, why are you worried about not having buffs active when EVERYTHING IS DEAD? lol

When you're surrounded by enemies, these mods/arcanes will shine.  You don't NEED buffs up 24/7.

We'll be fine.   The numbers have been run, and we're fine.  I ran these numbers myself, ran SP the other night... had NO issues killing stuff.

Y'all are panicked over nothing.

The arcane and mods are still buffs, but it won't make melee more appealing than melee (perhaps appart from AoE weapons that are already good). I'm not saying that these are not buffs, I'm just saying that they feel not what they should be.

-> Survival mission : to get the 1~2 kills per seconds to maintain the survival % high enough you'll need the buff 24/7 if you intend do it with guns . If you get the kill by another mean either you'll lose the bonus or you didn't need it (Khora, Protea, Xaku). And appart from a few exception there are no warframe ability that gives damage buff limited to guns.

-> Disruption : perhaps it's something to try, but when you spot the demolisher, having to kill trash mod to get the buff to then be able to take out the demolisher is a bit risky when you can just smash E with your x12 combo meter up, or perform a heavy attack.

other endless

-> Defense : meh, who play defense anyway ?
-> interception / excavation : you don't have to kill mobs appart from a few ones.

other than endless
-> in most you don't have to kill mobs
-> exterminate : you can do it solo with whatever you want. I personnaly use loki with lull to make perfect runs with stealth scan for Simaris and finishers that 1HKO anything.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb MonsterOfMyOwn:

If you get the kill by another mean either you'll lose the bonus or you didn't need it (Khora, Protea, Xaku). And appart from a few exception there are no warframe ability that gives damage buff limited to guns.

I also say all the time ...
was that actually confirmed? it's an epic fail if it works that way. Damaging warframes / weapons just get better. and players who actually need it do just as little damage and run as bots do.
that's obvious!

In addition, theorists have already calculated that you drive better with the usual 60/60 mods.
therefore I keep asking myself where more garbage is designed. there are already deimos arcanes and almost all ranged weapons are poorly playable in the high lvl area.

[Monolake]

2 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

 

We'll be fine.   The numbers have been run, and we're fine.  I ran these numbers myself, ran SP the other night... had NO issues killing stuff.

Y'all are panicked over nothing.
 

You are not reading or replying to a wrong comment, Im not talking about melee cause I know the nerf is irrelevant since melee damage is too high vs 99% of enemies HP.

The problem is with guns balance - we already have OP guns that will become several times more OP and overshadow everything else even worse than now, weak guns will remain unused, carpet buff is not a solution to variety issue, it will only exaggerate the disparity. Especially with on-kill buffs it will take far longer to ramp up on weak and single-target weapons, the disparity will feel much worse than simple stats difference.

 

[RichardKam]

7分钟前 , Monolake 说:

You are not reading or replying to a wrong comment, Im not talking about melee cause I know the nerf is irrelevant since melee damage is too high vs 99% of enemies HP.

The problem is with guns balance - we already have OP guns that will become several times more OP and overshadow everything else even worse than now, weak guns will remain unused, carpet buff is not a solution to variety issue, it will only exaggerate the disparity. Especially with on-kill buffs it will take far longer to ramp up on weak and single-target weapons, the disparity will feel much worse than simple stats difference.

 

Let's make it clear - are we talking about gun vs melee, or strong gun vs weak gun? And where do the galvanized mods fit into these two problem? 

To me, strong and weak weapons always exist, and there is no way to make everything equal. Hell, after melee 3.0 still no one is using fang prime even though DE gave it a major buff in stat. Everyone is gunblade kronen prime glaive prime. Does melee 3.0 did a terrible job? No. Was it unfair to fang prime? No. Now I can use it in sortie or lich hunting. 

When you have 100 different weapons in your arsenal, there will always be differences between them. If you want equality by outcome, you will only have one gun with 100 different skins.

[Godmode_Ash]

6 hours ago, RichardKam said:

That's.......what strong and weak means.......strong weapon is stronger than weak weapon........which is weaker than strong weapon. Do you want 100 different guns, or one same gun with 100 different skins? Braton prime will always be stronger than MK-1 braton. 

On-hit won't suddenly make all guns "feel" the same. Most weapons are far from being balanced or too similar.

When a player is choosing which weapon to use, there are several factors they will consider:

On-hit removes a reason to use meta weapon base on the new mechanic, because all weapons have decent chance to gain new buff so it wouldn't matter.

On-kill, adds another reason to use meta, which makes weaker weapon be left out.

 

6 hours ago, RichardKam said:

If the condition is on hit, the stack is really meaningless because for a rifle or burst rifle at > 4 shot per second, it will always be at max stack. The new galvanized mod will be a direct replacement of all vanilla version, which totally change the landscape of modding across all difficulty. Also, I can still complain "on hit" is not fair for sniper rifle and "oh my Trinity with Lanka cannot hit as fast as Mirage with Braton MK-1 to get buffed so imbalance fix it DE".

I already mentioned there are mods like "Internal Bleeding" that behave differently base on weapon rate of fire. I am sure if DE decide to change the condition to on-hit, they can adjust the stack gains base on fire rate and tweak around the multishots.

Also don't sniper already has their own combo? Sniper rifle are rarely use indoor because they can't get zoom bonus, that's separate issue has nothing to do with slow fire rate. Shotgun(Arca Plasmor) are slow but players do use them.

 

5 hours ago, RichardKam said:

It is because, in a blitz mission like exterminate or capture, no one need support frame.

On the other hand, for endurance mission, your support frame will be useful.

But, are you aware that you are playing a "support frame"? You support, not kill. Leave that job to chroma or xaku. 

No, the reason a support frame aren't being played is not because the mission ends too quick. The reason a support frame aren't being played is because there is no need to play a support frame.

If you are giving stereotype and labeling support frames that they should stick doing utility and not worry about their damage, in the current stats of the game(power creep), the support frames will just die out. If a Mirage can gain weapon on-kill buff easier than a Trinity, it's just another reason to not play a Trinity.

 

 

[Godmode_Ash]

28 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

To me, strong and weak weapons always exist, and there is no way to make everything equal. Hell, after melee 3.0 still no one is using fang prime even though DE gave it a major buff in stat. Everyone is gunblade kronen prime glaive prime. Does melee 3.0 did a terrible job? No. Was it unfair to fang prime? No. Now I can use it in sortie or lich hunting. 

You are kidding right? I love my Fang Prime!! I have over 50 different melee weapons all forma out, every single one of them can breath thru SP.

Melee damage is so high at this point there is almost no weak melee anymore(except those status whip).

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

15 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

Riven disposition.

~Fusilai (1.35)~Is the best throwing secondary.
(Damage=77 - Status Chance=29% - Crit Chance=23%)

~Kunai~
(Damage=46 - Status Chance=8% - Crit Chance=8%)
and (MK1) (1.51)~ Are the worst throwing secondaries.
(Damage=40 - Status Chance=2.5% - Crit Chance=5%)

~Hikou (1.3)~
(Damage=36 - Status Chance=10% - Crit Chance=4%)
and~Hikou Prime (1.25)~ Are in the mid ground.
(Damage=26 - Status Chance=28% - Crit Chance=6%)

Hikou and Hikou Prime should have = or < Riven disposition since they,
deal less damage, have less crit chance, and have less status chance.

Usage determines disposition, not overall strength. The riven system's primary purpose is to get players to try different setups and weapons by strongly buffing less used (not less powerful) weapons but still applying a buff to even the popular weapons.

Regardless of how weak the disposition is, rivens still provide a significant benefit to a weapon. The issue comes when overdramatic youtubers and posters attempt to ultimately convince DE to "lock" the rivens because they have "god-rolls", spent countless hours re-rolling or spent plat they didn't have to spend....personal issues and self inflicted wounds crap.

[RichardKam]

12小时前 , Godmode_Ash 说:

On-hit won't suddenly make all guns "feel" the same. Most weapons are far from being balanced or too similar.

When a player is choosing which weapon to use, there are several factors they will consider:

On-hit removes a reason to use meta weapon base on the new mechanic, because all weapons have decent chance to gain new buff so it wouldn't matter.

On-kill, adds another reason to use meta, which makes weaker weapon be left out.

 

I already mentioned there are mods like "Internal Bleeding" that behave differently base on weapon rate of fire. I am sure if DE decide to change the condition to on-hit, they can adjust the stack gains base on fire rate and tweak around the multishots.

Also don't sniper already has their own combo? Sniper rifle are rarely use indoor because they can't get zoom bonus, that's separate issue has nothing to do with slow fire rate. Shotgun(Arca Plasmor) are slow but players do use them.

Then your question is strong gun vs weak gun, not gun vs melee. In this case, this is not the question being addressed by the SoP update.

引用

No, the reason a support frame aren't being played is not because the mission ends too quick. The reason a support frame aren't being played is because there is no need to play a support frame.

If you are giving stereotype and labeling support frames that they should stick doing utility and not worry about their damage, in the current stats of the game(power creep), the support frames will just die out. If a Mirage can gain weapon on-kill buff easier than a Trinity, it's just another reason to not play a Trinity.

I am not giving stereotype. DE does. Different frames have different themes and skill sets. That's what people are min-maxing. No Loki player in his reasonable sense would want to build his 3 to switch teleport endlessly and become a better mobility frame than Gauss or Volt. If you insist to play a support frame and maximize the damage output and efficiency better than a nuke frame, feel free to do so.

[Godmode_Ash]

1 hour ago, RichardKam said:

Then your question is strong gun vs weak gun, not gun vs melee. In this case, this is not the question being addressed by the SoP update.

My suggestion is relate to the new mod/arcane. Strong gun vs weak gun isn't going to be balanced ever, noone is that naïve to believe that. Regard to the gun vs melee, if fewer guns are going to be pick because lacking the chance to receive buff from the new mods/arcanes, then it should be part of gun vs melee problem in this coming update.

 

1 hour ago, RichardKam said:

I am not giving stereotype. DE does. Different frames have different themes and skill sets. That's what people are min-maxing. No Loki player in his reasonable sense would want to build his 3 to switch teleport endlessly and become a better mobility frame than Gauss or Volt. If you insist to play a support frame and maximize the damage output and efficiency better than a nuke frame, feel free to do so.

You wrote that a support frame should just stick to do utility, and leave dealing damage to damage frame. I was disagree with that mind set.

Have you heard of Snow Globe use for collusion damage, or Trinity use Energy Vampire to 1 shot high level enemy? Warframe has many mixing role opportunities, especially after Helminth opened up a lot of possibilities. I am not saying support frames should take over damage dealing roles, but that doesn't mean support frames shouldn't try to increase damage either. If a support frame all can do is utility, what would it do if there is no damage frame around? Just don't kill?

 

PS. Loki's 3 is godly in escort mission. I actually have a load out for that. Tired of those annoying drone in POE.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

 

16 hours ago, Monolake said:

You are not reading or replying to a wrong comment, Im not talking about melee cause I know the nerf is irrelevant since melee damage is too high vs 99% of enemies HP.

The problem is with guns balance - we already have OP guns that will become several times more OP and overshadow everything else even worse than now, weak guns will remain unused, carpet buff is not a solution to variety issue, it will only exaggerate the disparity. Especially with on-kill buffs it will take far longer to ramp up on weak and single-target weapons, the disparity will feel much worse than simple stats difference.

 

.....  vvvvv

2 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Then your question is strong gun vs weak gun, not gun vs melee. In this case, this is not the question being addressed by the SoP update.

 

18 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

The arcane and mods are still buffs, but it won't make melee more appealing than melee (perhaps appart from AoE weapons that are already good). I'm not saying that these are not buffs, I'm just saying that they feel not what they should be.

-> Survival mission : to get the 1~2 kills per seconds to maintain the survival % high enough you'll need the buff 24/7 if you intend do it with guns . If you get the kill by another mean either you'll lose the bonus or you didn't need it (Khora, Protea, Xaku). And appart from a few exception there are no warframe ability that gives damage buff limited to guns.

-> Disruption : perhaps it's something to try, but when you spot the demolisher, having to kill trash mod to get the buff to then be able to take out the demolisher is a bit risky when you can just smash E with your x12 combo meter up, or perform a heavy attack.

other endless

-> Defense : meh, who play defense anyway ?
-> interception / excavation : you don't have to kill mobs appart from a few ones.

other than endless
-> in most you don't have to kill mobs
-> exterminate : you can do it solo with whatever you want. I personnaly use loki with lull to make perfect runs with stealth scan for Simaris and finishers that 1HKO anything.

There is no reason you NEED to rely SOLELY on gunplay or melee, though. YOU are creating this restriction that DOES NOT EXIST.  If your melee is cutting it, go nuts.  If your guns are taking out enemies, keep it up!

Maybe you need to keep some combo meter going for when guns stall, and maybe when you come across the next patch of weaker mobs, you can stack up your guns again.  If melee is more effective against a Demolisher, than so be it.  Why is that "bad"?

You can also use buff frame, companions, ....  I feel like we're talking in circles here, my dude...   This isn't productive.


Point is, DE IS buffing guns via the arcanes and mods.  That's a fact.   Maybe not the buff you were HOPING for, but it IS most certainly a buff. 
Melee is ALSO still plenty strong.  

This is not Halo.  This is not Call of Duty.  You are not only given a sword or a gun and left on your lonesome.  You have an ENTIRE ARSENAL at your disposal throughout each mission.  If you fail to make use of what is available to you, that's on you at this point.  DE has certainly given us the tools.


PS:  I love Defense, so... maybe don't act like you're speaking for everyone, yeah?

[RichardKam]

29分钟前 , (PSN)JustJoshinEnt 说:

 

.....  vvvvv

 

There is no reason you NEED to rely SOLELY on gunplay or melee, though. YOU are creating this restriction that DOES NOT EXIST.  If your melee is cutting it, go nuts.  If your guns are taking out enemies, keep it up!

Maybe you need to keep some combo meter going for when guns stall, and maybe when you come across the next patch of weaker mobs, you can stack up your guns again.  If melee is more effective against a Demolisher, than so be it.  Why is that "bad"?

You can also use buff frame, companions, ....  I feel like we're talking in circles here, my dude...   This isn't productive.


Point is, DE IS buffing guns via the arcanes and mods.  That's a fact.   Maybe not the buff you were HOPING for, but it IS most certainly a buff. 
Melee is ALSO still plenty strong.  

This is not Halo.  This is not Call of Duty.  You are not only given a sword or a gun and left on your lonesome.  You have an ENTIRE ARSENAL at your disposal throughout each mission.  If you fail to make use of what is available to you, that's on you at this point.  DE has certainly given us the tools.


PS:  I love Defense, so... maybe don't act like you're speaking for everyone, yeah?

I think people are blowing "melee nerf, gun not getting buff" way out of proportion in the SoP update, coupled with some youtubers baiting viewers and exaggerating the mess even further. 

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Il y a 2 heures, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt a dit :

You can also use buff frame, companions, ....  I feel like we're talking in circles here, my dude...   This isn't productive.

I do like more dynamic mechanism. Take the Cedo as an example : use alt fire to proc status (viral for debuff, rad for CC, + innate blast and all single element to buff condition overload) then switch to melee to kill the mobs with the damage buff from viral and condition overload.

Need to kill an arbitration drone or depop a nullifier ? Use Cedo primary fire.

The CO buffs are too powerful atm but the gameplay was ok.

The issue with "on kill" with stacking damage is that it kinda force you to keep playing the weapon that gets the buff, moreover when the durations are 4s or 12s. In that way "warcry + eternal war" that stack duration and not bonus feels better and more reliable.

There are a lot of possible conditions to provide buffs, and I've played enough shooters to have tons of ideas. What is disappointing is that all are "on kill", we need detail if it's on gun kill but it will be probably the case (except one which is on melee kill)

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

2 hours ago, RichardKam said:

I think people are blowing "melee nerf, gun not getting buff" way out of proportion in the SoP update, coupled with some youtubers baiting viewers and exaggerating the mess even further. 

Agreed, 1000%.

24 minutes ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

I do like more dynamic mechanism. Take the Cedo as an example : use alt fire to proc status (viral for debuff, rad for CC, + innate blast and all single element to buff condition overload) then switch to melee to kill the mobs with the damage buff from viral and condition overload.

Need to kill an arbitration drone or depop a nullifier ? Use Cedo primary fire.

The CO buffs are too powerful atm but the gameplay was ok.

The issue with "on kill" with stacking damage is that it kinda force you to keep playing the weapon that gets the buff, moreover when the durations are 4s or 12s. In that way "warcry + eternal war" that stack duration and not bonus feels better and more reliable.

There are a lot of possible conditions to provide buffs, and I've played enough shooters to have tons of ideas. What is disappointing is that all are "on kill", we need detail if it's on gun kill but it will be probably the case (except one which is on melee kill)

... Here's the issue... You're acting like you'll NEED the buff up constantly, and you DON'T.  Guns (ESPECIALLY the Cedo) can already kill plenty well across the majority of content.  Arbitrations, too.  Steel Path gets tricky, but SP is NICHE, it is the toughest of the tough, and as such, it's meant to bottleneck builds and force you to use your best of the best.  Not your "okay-ish", not your worst... your BEST.

But that's SP, and SP is NOT the majority of the game.  That's important to point out and remember.

These buffs having "On Kill" with short timers honestly, imo, may bleed over into Melee mods down the line if all goes well, because... 

Currently, melee top-tier mods give you power ALL the time with EASE...  So you can walk into most content and, once activated, you can kill lazily without thinking...  

However, these "on-kill" mods with limited timers for the buffs give you power AS NEEDED, but not CONSTANTLY, which keeps the overall base power reigned in, vs just a constantly OP weapon.   This is not a bad thing.

When there are things to kill, your killing power will ramp up....   When there aren't enough things to kill, it won't.   

I really don't understand why y'all think that's a problem.  I mean, the buffs these mods are giving are HUGE, and the Arcanes are pure BUFF, as they don't even take up a mod slot! lol

[vegetosayajin]

1 hour ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

 Steel Path gets tricky, but SP is NICHE, it is the toughest of the tough, and as such, it's meant to bottleneck builds and force you to use your best of the best.  Not your "okay-ish", not your worst... your BEST.

But that's SP, and SP is NOT the majority of the game.  That's important to point out and remember.
 

The whole update is because of SP, they said it on multiple streams and devstreams. :D
Guns didn't need any buff for normal content as it was.

[Krilexis]

About the 'on kill' stuff just make sure to group up enemies, plenty of options to do so (my personal favorite currently is Vauban bastille with Garas 3 augment) and people already use this strat for SP. Dont really see a problem.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

il y a une heure, Krilexis a dit :

About the 'on kill' stuff just make sure to group up enemies, plenty of options to do so (my personal favorite currently is Vauban bastille with Garas 3 augment) and people already use this strat for SP. Dont really see a problem.

The "problem" is that "on kill" won't add variety or guns / gameplay because it'll benefit to guns that actually kills.

Take Vauban as an example, add Ivara stealth arrow and you can carelessly melee in the vortex, why should I bother use a gun ?

Btw I think that it's too late to make the devs change their mind, and we'll have to wait for them stating with a genuine surprise that "bramma usage stats is even higher after the patch" or whatever will be meta

[(PSN)ninpy]

On 2021-06-23 at 9:21 PM, Zyocuh said:

Exactly this. Every gun when modded right can go into SP and kill a charger or butcher if you need to get the ball rolling on the buff.

✨viper wraith✨

[General_Durandal]

22 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Regardless of how weak the disposition is, rivens still provide a significant benefit to a weapon.

I had a Godly Nukor Riven, (Nukor has 1/5 orbs disposition, one of the lowest)
but it was still worse then just using normal mods,
because all it's numbers are way less then everything else.

+ damage, status, something else, and a okay -.
All the numbers where around 40, so not even a replacement for a 60/60 status mod.

Tried many different combos, couldn't make the riven build better then my base build.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

I had a Godly Nukor Riven, (Nukor has 1/5 orbs disposition, one of the lowest)
but it was still worse then just using normal mods,
because all it's numbers are way less then everything else.

+ damage, status, something else, and a okay -.
All the numbers where around 40, so not even a replacement for a 60/60 status mod.

Tried many different combos, couldn't make the riven build better then my base build.

Because you're using a major outlier. You choose to be a meta chaser so you have to own up to that decision. Plenty of 0.9 and higher are just fine.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

10 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

The "problem" is that "on kill" won't add variety or guns / gameplay because it'll benefit to guns that actually kills.

Take Vauban as an example, add Ivara stealth arrow and you can carelessly melee in the vortex, why should I bother use a gun ?

Btw I think that it's too late to make the devs change their mind, and we'll have to wait for them stating with a genuine surprise that "bramma usage stats is even higher after the patch" or whatever will be meta

The people that are actually good at the game and know what they're doing won't have any problems at all. You'll have to just wait for a youtuber to tell you how to play.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb General_Durandal:

I had a Godly Nukor Riven, (Nukor has 1/5 orbs disposition, one of the lowest)
but it was still worse then just using normal mods,
because all it's numbers are way less then everything else.

+ damage, status, something else, and a okay -.
All the numbers where around 40, so not even a replacement for a 60/60 status mod.

Tried many different combos, couldn't make the riven build better then my base build.

i also use riven but the stats are bad.
a normal mod would bring much more here ...

vor 8 Stunden schrieb (PSN)ninpy:

✨viper wraith✨

I don't know if this is trolling .... but there are heaps of single target garbage and you can kill something with that. but it's not about that! you don't fight against single target most of the time! this brainlessness has no place here!

[Venus-Venera]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Krilexis:

About the 'on kill' stuff just make sure to group up enemies, plenty of options to do so (my personal favorite currently is Vauban bastille with Garas 3 augment) and people already use this strat for SP. Dont really see a problem.

problem certainly not. it will still be playable. The question is how......
why remove convenient options? I see no reason to ...

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

il y a 24 minutes, (PSN)Madurai-Prime a dit :

The people that are actually good at the game and know what they're doing won't have any problems at all. You'll have to just wait for a youtuber to tell you how to play.

The patch won't change much and won't change as much as it should have. I'll buy / farm the mods and arcanes, probably most if not all. I'll use the buffs but it won't make the game any better.
I think it's not too late for a lobbying to have guns buffs that don't rely on "on kill" condition. Some working that way is OK (and Deimos guns alternate fire are "on kill" and it's OK to have such gimmick for a few guns) , all guns buffs as changes advertised to rebalance melee/guns is not good.

I don't think we'll come to an agreement as you'll keep saying that these are actually buffs (which they are), and that you're a good player who is OK with them, and I'll keep saying that it's not a good gameplay that will narrow the meta and DE are cornering themselves.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

9 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

The whole update is because of SP, they said it on multiple streams and devstreams. :D
Guns didn't need any buff for normal content as it was.

Yes, I'm aware, HOWEVER changes they make FOR SP will bleed over into regular gameplay.

So, these mods make sense.  These CHANGES make sense.  They get stronger AS NEEDED, and don't stay super-buff for long durations.