About Platinum, Trading, and Scammers

[NeoBahamut19]

Recently I had around 70 platinum, used 35 for Forma, and came back a few hours to only 1 on my account... This caused me to go on a search to see what may have happened.

To my horror, I have found thread after thread (across here, Reddit, Steam, and other places) stating that if a scammer trades Platinum, the victim who is COMPLETELY UNAWARE the Platinum they got was not legit can not only LOSE that Platinum, but can also be banned if they accrue a negative balance and then is ENCOURAGED to spend cash to make up the difference to essentially buy themselves out of their ban. Some of these bans have been for balances into the negative thousands due to large trades for expensive items such as Riven Mods.

A couple notes here: Trading is not only allowed in-game by Digital Extremes, but is highly pushed by them as a HUGE aspect of their live market. Digital Extremes should be held wholly accountable, not legitimate consumers, for any fraudulent activity that happens in their storefronts (the trading posts they provide people in Dojos). You are required already to be MR2 & have 2FA enabled in order to trade.

Given this, why is it acceptable to ban someone, Digital Extremes, for using a system YOU implemented and YOU watch over when YOU fail to stop someone in time? Isn't it on YOUR (Digital Extreme's) head for not verifying someone is purchasing Platinum legitimately?

What gives YOU (Digital Extremes) the right to punish a customer in YOUR store that YOU set up because of YOUR failings at verifying sales properly?

How am I or any other player to be able to trust Digital Extremes won't abuse us, ban our accounts with hundreds to thousands of hours, all because of one trade with someone who may have been using stolen information to purchase Platinum. It's not on US (the players) to verify the purchases that other players make. Are you expecting me to ask every vendor for their number, identification information, and all other information to verify WHO they are in order to protect myself on YOUR store?

Let's be real here, I keep calling Trading Posts YOUR (Digital Extremes) store because YOU (Digital Extremes) are the ones who not only implemented it but also allow the trading of Platinum, acknowledge the scamming issues that happen, and have put in some measly 2FA/MR2 requirements for trading. Here's the problem with those two methods:

2FA: It's called a burner phone, anyone can get one.

MR2: You can literally buy this with illegally obtained plat by getting a Mirage and a bunch of weapons and hitting up SO as fast as possible, if you even need to get that far to hit MR2.

 

You, Digital Extremes, designed this system that allows for US (the players) to be scammed. YOU, Digital Extremes, should be the one to pay the price for US getting scammed, NOT us.

 

The solutions are as follows:

Digital Extremes takes it on the chin when they fail to do their job verifying a purchase to be legitimate by NOT punishing the player through removal of Platinum/items.

OR

Remove the ability to trade Platinum. (We all know what their stance will be with that.)

 

I shouldn't feel like I'm putting my account into jeopardy just to trade some stuff for the currency I spend cash on in a system provided by you, the developer, in your game.

 

Imagine the following scanario: You go to a bar, someone from another table you don't know buys you a drink on their tab, they then do a dine n' dash. They also happened to do this to 2 or 3 other people as well who all took it as a gift from a random stranger. The server comes over to you and expects you to pay for the drink that they bought you. When you say "I'm not paying for it, I didn't ask for it, it's not on me", that server gets the bouncer to kick you out of the bar and ban you from coming back. Who is in the wrong here?

Answer: The scammer and the business.

 

/rant

[(PSN)goonie4good]

I’ve traded for years and never had a problem. Just be smart, you can usually pick up on people if they are acting shady. And if not, get into the habit of just grabbing a screenshot after the trade, in case you need it for proving you weren’t the one being scammy if some wild scenario happens and you’re banned. 

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

Does this suck? Yes.

Did you agree to it in the TOS? Also yes.

Welcome to the world.

[NeoBahamut19]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)goonie4good said:

I’ve traded for years and never had a problem. Just be smart, you can usually pick up on people if they are acting shady. And if not, get into the habit of just grabbing a screenshot after the trade, in case you need it for proving you weren’t the one being scammy if some wild scenario happens and you’re banned. 

 

I shouldn't have to be protecting myself in THEIR store that THEY set up, and risk being punished if I am the one who receives illegal Platinum unknowingly. You miss the point entirely. Congrats.

 

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Does this suck? Yes.

Did you agree to it in the TOS? Also yes.

Welcome to the world.

 

TOS doesn't excuse shady decisions by DE.

[Tesseract7777]

Yeah... their way of dealing with it doesn't exactly feel so great when you get punished by it as an innocent bystander.

But, DE seems to have decided this is the best solution (for their bottomline), and despite a lot of innocent people getting caught in the crossfire over the years and complaining, they don't seem to have any intention of dealing with it differently. 

My advice is that if you have recently traded, especially for a large amount, don't use it for at least a week or so, to avoid any unpleasant issues.

Or, at least don't use enough that it would put you in the negative if you lost it, until you can be sure the persons purchase has properly cleared, and was not bad plat. 

I'm just offering solutions, because I don't see them changing this. I understand it sucks, but that's the world we live in. 

Be super careful about the rep of anyone you are doing large transactions with as well. 

My point? I commiserate, I get it, I don't really think its fair. But they aren't going to change it, so all you can do is protect yourself from their anti-consumer practices. 

[NeoBahamut19]

4 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Yeah... there way of dealing with it doesn't exactly feel so great when you get punished by it as an innocent bystander.

But, DE seems to have decided this is the best solution (for their bottomline), and despite a lot of innocent people getting caught in the crossfire over the years and complaining, they don't seem to have any intention of dealing with it differently. 

My advice is that if you have recently traded, especially for a large amount, don't use it for at least a week or so, to avoid any unpleasant issues.

Or, at least don't use enough that it would put you in the negative if you lost it, until you can be sure the persons purchase has properly cleared, and was not bad plat. 

I'm just offering solutions, because I don't see them changing this. I understand it sucks, but that's the world we live in. 

Be super careful about the rep of anyone you are doing large transactions with as well. 

My point? I commiserate, I get it, I don't really think its fair. But they aren't going to change it, so all you can do is protect yourself from their anti-consumer practices. 

 

Their way of dealing with it doesn't fly in any other industry.

The fact that they're willing to nuke relationships with their playerbase to meet a bottom line in this manner is another equally huge issue.

The fact that keeping a log is constantly recommended, yet they have no in-game log system, yet are somehow able to magically track where Platinum has gone is highly sketch.

Lastly, they should be changing it, it doesn't matter how long it's been. Time is no excuse to continue doing something shady. That's like saying that you've been doing something the illegal way, yet because you haven't been caught in years, that it's okay to continue doing it.

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, NeoBahamut19 said:

 

Their way of dealing with it doesn't fly in any other industry.

The fact that they're willing to nuke relationships with their playerbase to meet a bottom line in this manner is another equally huge issue.

The fact that keeping a log is constantly recommended, yet they have no in-game log system, yet are somehow able to magically track where Platinum has gone is highly sketch.

Lastly, they should be changing it, it doesn't matter how long it's been. Time is no excuse to continue doing something shady.

I'm not disagreeing with you. 

But I've cynically accepted they won't change it and given up long ago. If you want to keep trying to get them to change it by my guest, but I've given up on that long ago personally. I don't think its cool, but I don't think they are going to do anything different about it. 

[NeoBahamut19]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

I'm not disagreeing with you. 

But I've cynically accepted they won't change it and given up long ago. If you want to keep trying to get them to change it by my guest, but I've given up on that long ago personally. I don't think its cool, but I don't think they are going to do anything different about it. 

 

One of the problems is far too many people in their community have been cultured to follow them and not question their decisions, treating DE as if they're holy figures that are not wrong and that if a player is wronged, it's on the player.

It's the most toxic thing about this game.

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

 

One of the problems is far too many people in their community have been cultured to follow them and not question their decisions, treating DE as if they're holy figures that are not wrong and that if a player is wronged, it's on the player.

It's the most toxic thing about this game.

I get what you are saying. But at least that's not me in this situation, I don't think what they are doing here is right, I just think this is an issue where I could bang my head against the wall about it until I'm committed and they won't do anything about it. 

[ZeroX4]

1 minute ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

 

Their way of dealing with it doesn't fly in any other industry.

The fact that they're willing to nuke relationships with their playerbase to meet a bottom line in this manner is another equally huge issue.

The fact that keeping a log is constantly recommended, yet they have no in-game log system, yet are somehow able to magically track where Platinum has gone is highly sketch.

Lastly, they should be changing it, it doesn't matter how long it's been. Time is no excuse to continue doing something shady.

I agree with you 100% i myself never experienced that kind of issue but i can feel every bit of anger when i see post like yours

I do see how i could do what scammer does and being your friend i could give you part of my plat and that way you would keep it if de would not punish bystanders

So what is your solution to the problem? Cause i really didnt come up with any
Or at least my would be give back items that was sold for plat on that trade and no1 would get harm but i wonder would it be possible
(i think rolling back would be harder to pull considering many factor than just simply hurt innocent players like it is now)

Yet i still wonder do you have any solution?

[NeoBahamut19]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

I get what you are saying. But at least that's not me in this situation, I don't think what they are doing here is right, I just think this is an issue where I could bang my head against the wall about it until I'm committed and they won't do anything about it. 

Unfortunately that seems to be what they're hoping for, that people will just give up and let them to continue abusing them.

[Berzerkules]

It's a S#&$ty situation 

2 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Yeah... their way of dealing with it doesn't exactly feel so great when you get punished by it as an innocent bystander.

But, DE seems to have decided this is the best solution (for their bottomline), and despite a lot of innocent people getting caught in the crossfire over the years and complaining, they don't seem to have any intention of dealing with it differently. 

My advice is that if you have recently traded, especially for a large amount, don't use it for at least a week or so, to avoid any unpleasant issues.

Or, at least don't use enough that it would put you in the negative if you lost it, until you can be sure the persons purchase has properly cleared, and was not bad plat. 

I'm just offering solutions, because I don't see them changing this. I understand it sucks, but that's the world we live in. 

Be super careful about the rep of anyone you are doing large transactions with as well. 

My point? I commiserate, I get it, I don't really think its fair. But they aren't going to change it, so all you can do is protect yourself from their anti-consumer practices. 

Pretty much this here.

It's a terrible situation but we all agreed to ToS so we're kind of just stuck dealing with it. I'm not defending DE by any means, it's a horrible policy and should get changed to protect to seller. 

UNtil DE makes changes I suggest you hold some of your plat and never go anywhere near zero. It really sucks because you essentially have plat that you can't spend but it's like insurance. Having a stash of untouchable plat is worth your account IMO. 

[NeoBahamut19]

Just now, ZeroX4 said:

I agree with you 100% i myself never experienced that kind of issue but i can feel every bit of anger when i see post like yours

I do see how i could do what scammer does and being your friend i could give you part of my plat and that way you would keep it if de would not punish bystanders

So what is your solution to the problem? Cause i really didnt come up with any
Or at least my would be give back items that was sold for plat on that trade and no1 would get harm but i wonder would it be possible
(i think rolling back would be harder to pull considering many factor than just simply hurt innocent players like it is now)

Yet i still wonder do you have any solution?

 

I posted the two solutions that are acceptable:

Either DE doesn't take away plat/items from players, says "we made a mistake allowing this transaction, sorry", and takes it on the chin.

OR

They disable trading Plat, at least until a much higher MR like 10 or something to where it's not worth the time invested for scammers.

The only other solution I could have would involve logs and tracking every single resource possible, including through crafting, which I can't even imagine the database size for let alone computation power required.

[NeoBahamut19]

Just now, Berzerkules said:

It's a S#&$ty situation 

Pretty much this here.

It's a terrible situation but we all agreed to ToS so we're kind of just stuck dealing with it. I'm not defending DE by any means, it's a horrible policy and should get changed to protect to seller. 

UNtil DE makes changes I suggest you hold some of your plat and never go anywhere near zero. It really sucks because you essentially have plat that you can't spend but it's like insurance. Having a stash of untouchable plat is worth your account IMO. 

 

My solution is to just not support DE anymore with Plat purchases and maybe find another game from another developer that's not going to abuse its loyal customers.

[Berzerkules]

Just now, NeoBahamut19 said:

 

I posted the two solutions that are acceptable:

Either DE doesn't take away plat/items from players, says "we made a mistake allowing this transaction, sorry", and takes it on the chin.

OR

They disable trading Plat, at least until a much higher MR like 10 or something to where it's not worth the time invested for scammers.

The only other solution I could have would involve logs and tracking every single resource possible, including through crafting, which I can't even imagine the database size for let alone computation power required.

DE could also make the plat untradeable until it clears. It would suck for the seller but would stop any bans for going into the red.

[Berzerkules]

Just now, NeoBahamut19 said:

 

My solution is to just not support DE anymore with Plat purchases and maybe find another game from another developer that's not going to abuse its loyal customers.

If you don't like DE policy leaving is always an option. I'm pretty sure almost any developer has their own best interest in mind and will screw the customer to male a buck though.

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, Berzerkules said:

DE could also make the plat untradeable until it clears. It would suck for the seller but would stop any bans for going into the red.

I think this is the best solution.

I got the impression somewhere they are afraid to try this, because they think it might slow down people's enthusiasm to trade, knowing that they platinum wouldn't be available right away, or something to that effect. 

[ZeroX4]

1 minute ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

 

I posted the two solutions that are acceptable:

Either DE doesn't take away plat/items from players, says "we made a mistake allowing this transaction, sorry", and takes it on the chin.

OR

They disable trading Plat, at least until a much higher MR like 10 or something to where it's not worth the time invested for scammers.

The only other solution I could have would involve logs and tracking every single resource possible, including through crafting, which I can't even imagine the database size for let alone computation power required.

Again your 1st idea is that would let abuse the system if i could scam de like that i would make tons of fake accounts and cancel even more plat purchases
Abusing the system generating plat left and right now imagine if allot of players would get same idea

And again only fair way would be to give back items traded with that plat and no1 would get hurt but also i believe rolling back would be hard to pull and thats why we dont have it

Your 2nd idea also would fall flat you dont know how some ppl are determined

3rd idea that falls under rolling back but that seems the best way anyway

[NeoBahamut19]

7 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

DE could also make the plat untradeable until it clears. It would suck for the seller but would stop any bans for going into the red.

 

I would be perfectly fine with that, if I have to wait for my Plat to clear to use it. As long as any offers on the store are locked until the Plat on hold is unlocked, I'm perfectly okay with that.

[-Kittens-]

32 minutes ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Does this suck? Yes.

Did you agree to it in the TOS? Also yes.

Welcome to the world.

Once again your white knight visor covers your actual vision.

 

There not a single eula or tos that is legally binding in the us canada or eu. All it will take is one lawsuit to end DE's enforcement of ANYTHING in their agreement. Anything.

[Surbusken]

The solution for the player is staying out of expensive trades, particularly rivens. Double points if you stay away from rivens entirely as those are both fake content and hardcore slot(h) machines. We are in the fifth circle of video game hell here.

Empty stats in notepad are not content.

 

If you absolutely, positively, insist on getting a riven, get one for unpopular but still great weapons, which are cheap in plat, or only do trades with items instead of plat.

Doing trades with players of a certain MR, for prime parts or 20 plat mods, I figure it's highly unlikely someone would risk a mule account for that little.

 

Since the developers have you sign an agreement, that says they can ban you if they feel like it, and you have no rights, it's then up to you to decide which kind of relationship you are in and act accordingly.

[Tesseract7777]

4 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

Once again your white knight visor covers your actual vision.

 

There not a single eula or tos that is legally binding in the us canada or eu. All it will take is one lawsuit to end DE's enforcement of ANYTHING in their agreement. Anything.

For example, there is a clause that they can ban you at any time, for any reason, even if you are a paying customer, a whale, so to speak. 

Obviously, for their own legal skin I don't think DE has been crazy enough to just ban a whale for no reason, but if someone who spent a lot of money on this game got banned for something frivolous, yeah, they would definitely have standing in court, and a clause that says "we can ban you for any reason" is not necessarily going to magically protect DE. 

People don't realize, an EULA only appears strong legally as no one is likely to challenge it. Legal fees are costly, so unless they are a paying customer who has spent a lot of real money they are probably just going to let it go and move on. That's what the video game companies count on, that they can court the whales, and that lower end consumers will just chalk it up as a loss and not challenge it legally if they get the EULA unfairly used against them. 

[Berzerkules]

3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I think this is the best solution.

I got the impression somewhere they are afraid to try this, because they think it might slow down people's enthusiasm to trade, knowing that they platinum wouldn't be available right away, or something to that effect. 

There is no clear solution where everyone wins. DE wants to make sales and encourage trading, they are a business after all.

I just feel that innocent people should not have their accounts banned and DE should take steps to resolve this long standing problem. Until then, we have to take steps to protect ourselves. 

I played a lot of Diablo 2 back in the day where duped items would poof from your inventory, I've been burned in trades more times than I can count. Maybe I'm just accepted the fact that no in game trade system is perfect. You will eventually get screwed but there are always ways to minimize the risk. 

4 minutes ago, NeoBahamut19 said:

 

I would be perfectly fine with that, if I have to wait for my Plat to clear to use it. As long as any offers on the store are locked until the Plat on hold is unlocked, I'm perfectly okay with that.

Many people would not be ok with purchased plat being untradeable for days though. It's really a no win situation for everyone.

[DrivaMain]

Negative plat is pretty rare nowadays. DE support usually sends you a mail regarding the illegal plat and told you not to spend any plat while they do an audit of your account. If they found out you are innocent, the plat purchase and trade will be reversed. For example, if you trade an arcane energize for 1000p and you do not spend any of it you will get your energize back and platinum taken once they found out  you are the innocent party. If that plat you spend into market items DE will remove those purchased item.

But for safety measures, do this :

• Take screenshot of the trade before accepting.
• Do not spend the plat for at least one week.

[Soy77]

Governments only responsible for money that they print.

But if you got caught using counterfeit money -even unknowingly, you're the one who will get arrested.

I don't see how a game company can solve problem that smartest minds in whole nation haven't solve.

Anyway, this is also happening in other games. You got scammed? You'll probably be getting banned as well. Gamers who play diverse number of games usually are not foreign to this concept of unfair law enforcement.