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On kill is a bad condition, make it CHANCE ON HIT instead


Xikto

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It is no surprise to anyone that ON KILL is a bad mod activation condition, i am actually surprised i have to explain why but here we are!

ON KILL means that you have to KILL an enemy just to be capable of using ur mods, at low levels this is no big deal and is quite easy, which makes these mods significantly better at places that .......we kinda don't really need it (which cases pretty bad power creep at low levels btw), and on the other hand at places that it ACTUALLY MATTERS killing that first enemy is gonna be a VERY jarring experience because ........ well ur mods are not active! (in other words this is the opposite of making a fluent combat)

Even though the intention with Galvanized mods is to make weapons better at high levels, with them having ON KILL effects they are going to be a nightmare in the usability department which is pretty much everything, lemme put it this way: right now snipers have one of the highest damage output of all weapons in game, they have insane range and can one tap pretty much anything, but they lack 1 thing and that is USABILITY and kaboom go find someone using a sniper for normal missions!

And now with BERSERKER being also on kill at high levels the entire experience will change to be MUCH WORSE.

SOLUTION? Well it is actually quite simple, instead of ON KILL or ON HEADSHOT KILL, we should simple make it a CHANCE to get the buff ON HIT or ON HEADSHOT, this way the mods will actually be weaker at low levels which will incentivize using other tactics, which is good we don't want any more low level power creep than we already have, and on the other hand at places where they matter they will be much more consistent and usable.


It is still not too late, you still haven't launched this, PLEASE pay attention right now and avoid this disaster!

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6 minutes ago, Omega-ZX said:

This is not all. Duration is trash too. Look at steel path. Let me explain...

High lv trash mobs are harder to kill. 4 Secs is a bad joke.

wow i totally forgot about that part so lemme just think about this for a sec.

Galvanised Scope and crosshair: Stacks 5x for 12s ON HEADSHOT KILL okay so that says to keep the buff all the time you need to do a HEADSHOT KILL every 2.4s, what is that? you ran out of enemies, well sucks to be you because you gotta do more HEADSHOTS KILLS to even activate your mods again.
Berserker Fury: stacks x2 for 10 seconds, that means either you always have to kill an enemy with ur melee every 5s or enjoy losing ur melee damage output.

IMO there shouldn't be an effect that lasts less than 20 seconds, and berserker fury should stay at  24s and scope and crosshair should be 20s while the others stay at a good 30s.

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29 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

If there's not that many enemies to keep your combo then why do you need to worry about keeping the combo? Lol

my friend you are completely off point here, let's say you are going railjack and your ship is boarded, there is only 10 of them but that doesn't meant they are easy to kill.
You need to understand that we are talking about a video game that is all about killing, for example extermination has a lot of enemies but that doesn't mean you will have a consistent 2 enemy per second in front of your crosshair, what happens is you kill everything in a tile, move to the next one and would you look at that, you need to build up all your on kill effects again, and this will just keep happening every single time there is not enough enemies to kill, and when you make a video game and say "we want to make the combat fluent" you can't really make a jarring combat like that and call it fluent.

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1 hour ago, Xikto said:

my friend you are completely off point here, let's say you are going railjack and your ship is boarded, there is only 10 of them but that doesn't meant they are easy to kill.
You need to understand that we are talking about a video game that is all about killing, for example extermination has a lot of enemies but that doesn't mean you will have a consistent 2 enemy per second in front of your crosshair, what happens is you kill everything in a tile, move to the next one and would you look at that, you need to build up all your on kill effects again, and this will just keep happening every single time there is not enough enemies to kill, and when you make a video game and say "we want to make the combat fluent" you can't really make a jarring combat like that and call it fluent.

I'm kinda thinking you are off point here. If my railjack is boarded I have my crew, my cat, my warframe, my primary and melee weapon to help take them down. Obviously higher level enemies are going to be more difficult to kill, but thats why you build for what you are fighting. If I'm doing an exterminate mission, I may bring a stealth frame with a dagger to take them out.

Point is, you're going to be able to take these enemies out easier than you think you are, these changes aren't as bad as you're making them out to be. Wait to give it a try before you complain about it.

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Xikto:

Berserker Fury: stacks x2 for 10 seconds, that means either you always have to kill an enemy with ur melee every 5s or enjoy losing ur melee damage output.

Oh i kill way faster without berserker. xD Crit is not the only option.

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I agree that "on kill" is bad and will only be effective for weapons that actually have no issues at killing mobs, and that durations are a bit too short.

Too short mostly because if you have to cast a buff / debuff / CC spell you'll probably lose your momentum . It will favor buffs with long duration (mirage eclipse, vex armor, roar) rather than more dynamic gameplay (ensnare + ash shuriken with augment)

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Or just let it be on hit, make each stack a tenth of its individual power, but allow ten times the max stacks for the same total maximum effectiveness. Then use fire rate to determine how often it can gain one stack.

This achieves the same overall effect as your chance method would achieve on average as measured over a long enough period of time, but with 100% consistency so you are not relying on RNG, which should not be involved in mod effects on weapons.

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"Chances on hit" could be too generic for all weapon types.

Imho there should be different triggers for the different weapon types.

Launchers : X ennemies hit (with a single shot)

Shotguns : small additive buff for each pellet that hit, or on hit at close range

Assault rifle : stack buffs on hit / lose buffs on miss

Sniper rifle : on headshot hit, or on hit at more than X meters (not 100m as it's not consistent with level design, but 30m could be okay)

Pistols : on hit x seconds after swapping (if secondary are not supposed to be main)

Also there could be more "generic" on critical hit or on status proc.

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While I think "on kill" is kinda debatable stuff, "on headshot kill" must be changed since if status proc like toxin, fire, electricity, gas and most importantly, slash takes the kill instead of initial hit even though it is procced by headshot, it does not count as headshot kill. and we mostly kill enemies with status ticks or CO melee in steel path.

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I mean - every action rpg have much more buffs triggered on hit rather on kill.
And WF is an action rpg/shooter.
Sooo...
I can agree with OP.
Or if DE so insisting on kill trigger, then make it 50 or 75 percent. I think it's pretty fair deal.

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb IncuBB:

I mean - every action rpg have much more buffs triggered on hit rather on kill.
And WF is an action rpg/shooter.
Sooo...
I can agree with OP.
Or if DE so insisting on kill trigger, then make it 50 or 75 percent. I think it's pretty fair deal.

just not. this is mainly used for bad weapons and most weapons are unplayable in the high lvl area.
how do you want to get this buff when she has to shoot a mob forever? ammunition is running out!

In addition, a lot of information is still missing:

  1. does the scaling work similarly to serration mod? because then it will be even more ridiculous!
  2. does the player have to kill or do you get the buff from the group member?
  3. what do you do against high lvl opponents when buff has run out? Ammunition is running out, status effects too ...
  4. and much more...
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11 hours ago, dwqrf said:

I do agree as well. I'm not happy with the "on kill" condition. It's creating a lot of problems to many weapons and many gamemodes, world boss included.

I thought about this too. This “on kill” mechanics means that they won’t activate on bosses. How are we going to activate the buffs when we fight bosses?????

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14 часов назад, Battle.Mage сказал:

just not. this is mainly used for bad weapons and most weapons are unplayable in the high lvl area.
how do you want to get this buff when she has to shoot a mob forever? ammunition is running out!

In addition, a lot of information is still missing:

  1. does the scaling work similarly to serration mod? because then it will be even more ridiculous!
  2. does the player have to kill or do you get the buff from the group member?
  3. what do you do against high lvl opponents when buff has run out? Ammunition is running out, status effects too ...
  4. and much more...

Dude, i just said IF DE won't change on kill condition, it should be at least working with higher chances.
 

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