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Loadout Slot Rework


(XBOX)LeftHandDap

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With the new improvements and additions to the game, I was wondering if loadout slots could gain some leniency. I understand the desire to incentivize mastery progression but I think the game does a good job of that without limiting loadouts. Additionally, I think it's understood very early in gameplay that this game is vast, not only in terms of objectives but also surrounding weapons and frames. With this vastness in mind one of my first objectives, after understanding the game, was organization. This objective was afforded to me at the cost of platinum (which I found strange but eagerly accepted) up until a certain point. Then the limitation of mastery came into play and halted that organization. Not only did it halt my organization but also my motivation to progress. The idea of having to wait a considerable amount of time simply to organize the warframes I had worked so hard to accrue up to this point was a little disheartening at the time. 

To avoid being more long-winded than this, and also to avoid simply elevating issues with no solution, I will offer these suggestions in conclusion.

1. Platinum; I am more than willing to work in game to pay for loadout slots or even use real money to purchase them.

2. Nightwave; More variance in the offered rewards couldn't hurt and the loadout slots could even be purchasable through creds instead of an outright level reward if necessary,

3. Syndicate Rewards; While probably the worst option out of the three, I could see a benefit it executed efficiently. Loadouts could become direct incentivization for syndicate engagement.

Hopefully, my message is received as intended; sans negativity. 

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The reason that Loadouts are limited is, according to DE, two-part. Neither of those parts are more than tangentially related to progression.

The first is that the amount of data stored in a Loadout slot is equivalent to a player character save on other RPGs, and even if the loadout is unfilled (after being claimed) by the player, it still must have data entry for 'default' or 'null' in all its sections. Other games limit the player to one character per save profile, or force you to load into another character to achieve the level of customisation that this system has.

It's a data storage drain, and also a data-access (as in, network traffic, which is what costs just as much, if not more, than the storage space on servers). Having every single player accessing their loadouts every single play session, loading and reloading the equivalent of an entire character profile every time, does mount up to a lot of data to pay for.

In their statements, DE have cited this as a limit on the amount of Loadouts they give players access to, and account for when they make more available for purchase, or in the case of special functions (reaching MR30). And if I'm recalling correctly, one of the Devs joked that more Loadout slots also means that players get less Riven slots, because of the amount of unique data entries they cause.

The second is, pretty frankly, because you're only supposed to be using Loadouts for your Favourites. It's not supposed to allow you to organise your entire arsenal. It's not even supposed to allow you to organise a loadout for each Warframe. It's a Favourites system.

DE have stated that several times too, that it's for your Favourites, not the entire Arsenal. This is where it's tangentially linked to progression, because DE do grant you more as you progress, since the MR level is a 'stuff counter'. So you have more 'stuff' and you develop more favourite 'stuff' than a lower MR player does. It's proportional to the amount of 'stuff' you have, being that not everything can be your favourite 'stuff', but allowing that your favourite 'stuff' encompasses a larger amount given the larger amount of available 'stuff'.

You are genuinely supposed to pick and choose, within the limits, which frames you want a dedicated Loadout for, and if your answer is 'all of them' then their response is 'no'.

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Firstly I appreciate your response and the supporting details, very clearly articulated.

Secondly, I have no issues with the first part of your response. I was unaware of the toll that the loadout slots had, nor was I aware of the price behind them. Very reasonable to limit the number considering those ideas.

However, the second point I have a little trouble agreeing with. Not to be argumentative, but I don't think anyone has the space to define the way something like organization should be viewed. The intentions can be stated and suggestions can be made, but beyond that the individuality of the player base is going to override those intentions rather rapidly. 

 

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On 2021-06-30 at 9:31 PM, (XBOX)LeftHandDap said:

Not to be argumentative, but I don't think anyone has the space to define the way something like organization should be viewed.

Well, I would have to disagree with you on that one then.

While in a situation where nothing affects me, I always say that I have no right to dictate.

However if it were something I had made? Something I was selling to people as a service? Then heck yes I would define how my service is used. Both for ease-of-access to my customers, and for efficiency and cost effectiveness for myself.

And, specifically, the concept of limited quick-access is not new, it's not even confined to games.

The idea of a 'favourites' system is intended to be limited. Especially when there's other mitigating factors there, like data access.

When you are creating a system of organisation in addition to the main one you have already created, specifically to accommodate the idea of 'favourites', limiting the amount of those (under the circumstances) is not just a sound way to get users to curate their content carefully, but also a sound design choice to lower your own costs.

Limiting the number of slots gets players to curate their slots. It gets them to assess what they actually use in the game, or what they want to just look pretty, or whether they have Articulas they want to show off... but then not hold on to the things they don't use regularly (in a sense).

Plus the game changes so much over time that no weapon combo with a Warframe, or companion, or any of that is going to stay the same. A year or so down the line, the Loadout you dedicated to a specific Wisp/Weapon combo will be supplanted, replaced, or made better by something else, and your Loadout will change. Maybe you won't even use Wisp for that anymore, and so that Loadout will change frame.

You won't use a Loadout for every frame every time. You will, over time, use the Arsenal to select your actual loadout far more over time, because your saved Loadouts won't always be appropriate, or will need updating with new items.

...

That said...

I do also have a bit of a confession to make. I was testing you a little on this.

The test here is that your account was made in 2019. With the way 2020 went, there is time for you to have gotten to MR 30, and you're on Xbox, so I can't actually go check your account like I can with PC players... In any case I checked because if you had reached MR 30, you would have responded a lot differently to that second part.

I said that DE didn't want this to be a system for holding your entire Arsenal, but... DE literally give you an extra 30 Slots if you hit MR 30, which if you add to the number you gain while you level (15 when you reach MR 29), plus the ones you buy with platinum (an extra 5), brings the player to 50 possible at the moment.

Given that there are currently only 45 Warframes available, that means you can actually create a Loadout for every single one. But only if you earn it.

If you grind more? You'll get that, and be set for Sisters of Parvos and then the next four major updates that release a Warframe (probably around two, maybe two and a half, years of new Frame releases).

So...

You do get your wish, eventually. Not as unlimited as you actually want, but DE did listen to us complain before.

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On 2021-06-26 at 4:14 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

The first is that the amount of data stored in a Loadout slot is equivalent to a player character save on other RPGs, and even if the loadout is unfilled (after being claimed) by the player, it still must have data entry for 'default' or 'null' in all its sections. Other games limit the player to one character per save profile, or force you to load into another character to achieve the level of customisation that this system has.

It's a data storage drain, and also a data-access (as in, network traffic, which is what costs just as much, if not more, than the storage space on servers). Having every single player accessing their loadouts every single play session, loading and reloading the equivalent of an entire character profile every time, does mount up to a lot of data to pay for.

you are correct in this and sadly most people who aren't in the IT-business won't ever really understand the problem...

that said, there are possibilities for this problem beyond the simple "pay-for-it" but ofc, like so often too, with some other problems as well. one that comes to mind right away would be:

loadout slots builds are no longer saved with DE but on the players computer (aside from the data about what mods they actually have access to, ofc, other wise one could manipulate data to get any mod in the game)... while this is the good idea part of this way, the bad one is that if for any reason the use would 'lose' those saved data, he/she would be screwed and have to rebuild everything again (e.g. like just happen to me a few days back, the ssd/hdd where the warframe data was saved upon died and the data were lost - and like with the lack of IT-understanding, far too many people lack the sense of regular backups too ^^)

anyway, this is a solution for not only the loadout 'problem' (if one could call it that) but for other things in the game too - some could even be solved if DE would use a workable encryption/decryption system (for not only data storage but transfere too) between the players computer and the server and still prevent manipulation to about the same extend like it is now (which is nowhere near perfect either). ofc, they should offer a way for players to backup those encrypted information too otherwise it would create too much problems in cases of data loss. best, to offer both ways (locally and 'cloud' saved) for the players with some of those boons like more slots available (or even buyable) for some of those 'restricted' things in game (that is anything restricted for economical reasons and not game-mechanic ones).

either way, there are risks involved that should be taken into calculation if ever they think of using it - and i guess they did thought of that pretty early in the development and choosen what we have now...

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