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Revenant Delux. Reconsider. Do not destroy his theme.


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Just now, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Yeah, or as a...

Revenant...

Hahahaha... right?! 

Old vampires, the "real ones" (not that they are real, but the real mythology behind them) is really more like a dead person being sent back by Satan to do evil, because God wouldn't take them, and because they had more wicked vengeance they wanted to wreak upon the world, They were nasty ghouls who rarely left neat little eyeteeth marks in the legends, but instead was much more violent and scary. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

 They were nasty ghouls who rarely left neat little eyeteeth marks in the legends, but instead was much more violent and scary. 

 

They were also pretty darn dangerous, which is why the historical / mythical version had *so* many limitations built into the lore.  Can't cross running water, sometimes ever, sometimes they had to be carried/assisted by a willing mortal.  IE, depending on the story a stream would be an impassable barrier... until it froze.  In others they could trick someone into helping them cross via bridge or ferry.  Some of them couldn't enter a home without permission, or holy ground.  Lots of stuff like that.

And the methods for dealing with them were as scary and brutal as the creatures themselves.  They recently found the skeleton of a young girl that they're *pretty* sure was buried as a vampire.  If I remember correctly, the bones were found with a fist sized stone wedged between her jaws.  I seem to remember that another way to silence a suspected vampire was to cut off the head, burying it either between the feet or in another grave entirely.  After all, the evil walking corpse can't cause much damage if it's already been beheaded, even if that won't actually "kill" it.  ( https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/10/fifth-century-childs-skeleton-shows-evidence-of-vampire-burial/   )

That's not even counting all the terrifying cultural variants on things that could be classified as "probably also vampires," like a pennagalon.

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hace 46 minutos, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu dijo:

I find it funny that that sentence is in the same post as this one:

Like, the total audacity to say "I acknowledge that the folks who made Revenant said he's vampiric, but I'm just gonna ignore that anyway."

They said the concept was based on* my mistake. The concept was involving a vampire theme indeed but the result is a strange one if you consider that a vampire.

hace 48 minutos, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu dijo:

I also love how you broaden it to "mental control". We're not just talking mental control, we're talking mesmerizing, enthralling, which is a more vampire-related form of "mental control", particularly in combination with its ability to spread. Likewise, you ignore that Revenant's leeching is in fact based on touch - through contact with his intangible form!

I may miss a piece of info here but where did you get that enthralling is more vampire-related?

Also, its over: 

hace 2 horas, VoidArkhangel dijo:

Now this is something!

How dumb of me for not thinking- viewing it this way! I disagree a bit with the spectres part but still this changes everything, if the Groove changed those frames to look like forest spirits, why we couldnt do the same? but that would imply that some tenno have the orokin tech to deform warframes or maybe you just have to ask the helminth to give it a lift up?

 

Still ugly af.

I was gonna awnser you with more but then I saw this

hace 2 horas, TARINunit9 dijo:

Ironically you are accusing them of doing the opposite what they actually did

Revenant is based on really, really old-school vampires. Not the Hollywood Bela Lugosi vampires, I'm talking Bram Stoker vampires, or even pre-Stoker vampires. Original vampires were grotesque ghouls, demonic walking corpses that could hypnotize you and turn into fog. That's what Revenant the Warframe does: crawl out of the mud like a zombie, hypnotize enemies, and turn into fog

This is it, the final explanation I needed. Thank you @TARINunit9

Thanks to it I can conclude with:

-Revenant is indeed a vampire but as said before is a really old school one, a thing from those really old urban legends

-The skin is ugly AF

-It fits into the theme? it doesnt give the vibes of a real vampire, I mean it doesnt seem like a ghoul at all, it doesnt seem like one from Castelvania and certainly it doesnt look like a sentient to me at least but I guess its personal taste since surely there are people who think that a vampire dresses like an emo ninja

As for you Framed_Waifu, I already said three times with this one that they can put the skin, changing my mind about the skin not having a real place in the game in the last two so stop trying to win a war that is already over.

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2 hours ago, VoidArkhangel said:

Im bothered because it doesnt follow the theme mainly, Zephyr is a warframe that looks like a bird and have abilities that control the air to some extent so why should a skin of a machine that the humans created to be a metal bird would bother me while the cracked warframe with the looks of a sentient that was attempting to literally put itself together is getting a skin with the "Anime Vampire" vibes as you say. The dev said Revenant was a vampire-like warframe but you and I know that isnt how the things went.

You just illustrated my point—There's absolutely no way you can see thematic continuity between a bird and what could have been a prop in Krush Groove but can't see it between a scary vampire hybrid and a cutesy anime vampire without having shifted goalposts.

You are welcome to your opinions of course... I just wish you wouldn't try to bolster them with stuff like "theme". 

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Posted (edited)

Ok guys are you really getting into an argument over Whether Revenants vampire theme is appropriate or not?

I’ll save all of you the effort (because I’ve already gone through it) and say no it’s not.

Just because something is undead does not automatically make it a vampire. And there is absolutely zero allusion to vampire or vampire-like beings within Revenants backstory.

Edited by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301
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Haven't read through the full six pages because ain't nobody got time for that but I swear Revenant threads always bring some of the worst takes the Warframe community can come up with, and it's not like there's a super high standard to begin with.

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56 minutes ago, VoidArkhangel said:

As for you Framed_Waifu, I already said three times with this one that they can put the skin, changing my mind about the skin not having a real place in the game in the last two so stop trying to win a war that is already over.

Yep, it's already over alright. The Deluxe fits Revenant's theme and abilities. It fits the game's art style. It fits the game's lore perfectly to the degree that it needs to...

All that's really left is people wanting to complain on the forum because one skin doesn't fit their particular taste. That's the only "war" I haven't "won" here. The objective stuff like those mentioned in the line above wasn't even a "war" though, unless you call me enjoying seeing someone headbutting against hard facts a "war".

I'm not here to convince anyone to like a skin they don't like - that's a lost cause. But I'm happy for you - you just saved yourself a few hundred plat!  Personally, I will enjoy embracing the vampiric side of Revenant, and not look like a leaking rust bucket for a change.

Also,

30 minutes ago, ebrl said:

I swear Revenant threads always bring some of the worst takes the Warframe community can come up with, and it's not like there's a super high standard to begin with.

Seconded. It's just a shame I find this kind of stuff hilarious. But yeah,

On 2021-06-08 at 12:33 AM, Leqesai said:

What could be a productive conversation regarding the pros/cons of Revenant Deluxe's design has deteriorated largely because people are not engaging in healthy discussion with those who think differently. If we just want to argue then continue going the direction we're going, but if we are serious about engagining in productive conversation I encourage us to be a little more respectful of other peoples' opinions.

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44 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

And there is absolutely zero allusion to vampire or vampire-like beings within Revenants backstory.

That's one way to circumvent the vampire allusions within his kit. And the fact that his development codename was Vlad. And that he coincidentally got an undead name.

But sure, I guess the codename could also be referring to the Russian singer and dancer Vlad Topalov, seeing as Revenant's got the power to "seduce" (Codex's wording) enemies and do the ballet. Yeah, totally absolutely zero allusions to vampires when it comes to Revenant.

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On 2021-07-01 at 8:39 PM, TitoElKehTeFokah said:

Yareli is cute, yareli is very nice.

Still that delux skin, at least for me, is not for a warframe like revenant.

You’re aware that Revenant literally just means vampire, right?

There’s no reason why Revenant can’t be a little high fashion, or even camp, or even just high fantasy. Just calm down, it’s not going to affect you at all, if people other than you like something.

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-07-01 at 8:18 AM, vanaukas said:

I'm tempted to buy it and use Yareli poses to sending you the video on PM

After that Zephyrmula-1 Race Car theme, especially mixed with other Zephyr schemes…all bets are off…nothing is off the table.

I mean, I bought the “Hindu”-esque Nova Deluxe that looks like a giant Fly that over-ate a box of Crayola Crayons and colorfully “ralphed” on itself so you just never know…

Edited by (PSN)Silverback73
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Posted (edited)
On 2021-07-03 at 6:24 AM, EmberStar said:

They were also pretty darn dangerous, which is why the historical / mythical version had *so* many limitations built into the lore.  Can't cross running water, sometimes ever, sometimes they had to be carried/assisted by a willing mortal.  IE, depending on the story a stream would be an impassable barrier... until it froze.  In others they could trick someone into helping them cross via bridge or ferry.  Some of them couldn't enter a home without permission, or holy ground.  Lots of stuff like that.

And the methods for dealing with them were as scary and brutal as the creatures themselves.  They recently found the skeleton of a young girl that they're *pretty* sure was buried as a vampire.  If I remember correctly, the bones were found with a fist sized stone wedged between her jaws.  I seem to remember that another way to silence a suspected vampire was to cut off the head, burying it either between the feet or in another grave entirely.  After all, the evil walking corpse can't cause much damage if it's already been beheaded, even if that won't actually "kill" it.  ( https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/10/fifth-century-childs-skeleton-shows-evidence-of-vampire-burial/   )

That's not even counting all the terrifying cultural variants on things that could be classified as "probably also vampires," like a pennagalon.

From what I understand, the processes of killing a vampire is as follows;

Step 1: stake heart.

Step 2: remove head.

Step 3: remove literally everything else.

Step 4: burn it all, to ash.

Step 5: salt the ash.

Step 6: Bury the salted ash.

Step 7: encase salted ash in concrete, or keep it separated with hundreds of tiny stones.

Step 8: protect the site with holy symbology, particularly of the faith the vampire had while alive.

Edited by _R_o_g_u_e_
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6 minutes ago, (PSN)Silverback73 said:

After that Zephyrmula-1 Race Car theme, especially mixed with other Zephyr schemes…all bets are off…nothing is off the table.

I mean, I bought the “Hindu”-esque Nova Deluxe that looks like a giant Fly that over-ate a box of Crayola Crayons and colorfully “ralphed” on itself so you just never know…

Zephyr deluxe is based on jet planes, which is quite appropriate for an aerial themed warframe.

Also to your comment on Nova, are you aware how disparaging you are being towards a member of a living pantheon?

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7 minutes ago, (PSN)Silverback73 said:

After that Zephyrmula-1 Race Car theme, especially mixed with other Zephyr schemes…all bets are off…nothing is off the table.

I mean, I bought the “Hindu”-esque Nova Deluxe that looks like a giant Fly that over-ate a box of Crayola Crayons and colorfully “ralphed” on itself so you just never know…

I like that deluxe too... for the body.  I use something else for the helmet.  There are some Deluxe skins that fight pretty hard if you try to mix them with anything else.  Ember Chicken Deluxe is a MAJOR offender here, because the neck mesh is different and leaves a massive gap under her chin with a number of other helmets - she looks half decapitated with a couple of the Tennogen I'd *LIKE* to try to use with it, and I can't unsee it.  But that Nova Deluxe works pretty well with several other helmets.

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2 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

That's one way to circumvent the vampire allusions within his kit. And the fact that his development codename was Vlad. And that he coincidentally got an undead name.

But sure, I guess the codename could also be referring to the Russian singer and dancer Vlad Topalov, seeing as Revenant's got the power to "seduce" (Codex's wording) enemies and do the ballet. Yeah, totally absolutely zero allusions to vampires when it comes to Revenant.

He was called Revenant for his concept art, which was strictly Eidolon themed and had zero mention of vampires. He didn’t receive the vampire theme until DE let Rebecca design his abilities and she completely disregarded the Eidolon theme because she wanted a vampire frame. And that’s where the development code name of “Vlad” came from. From the forced insertion of a theme that has no business being on a frame that literally already has a theme that was not and still isn’t fully utilized.

His final name became Revenant literally during the Tennocon 2018 art panel where his concept artist was just like “I like the name Revenant”. He also said some stuff about his ideas regarding him coming up with Revenant and again. zero mention of vampires.

And again, just because the term “revenant” refers to something undead. Just because something is undead does not automatically make them a vampire. I will not repeat this. It should not require repeating.

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10 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Zephyr deluxe is based on jet planes, which is quite appropriate for an aerial themed warframe.

Also to your comment on Nova, are you aware how disparaging you are being towards a member of a living pantheon?

I’m in no way, shape, or form insinuating any form of disparagement to any belief system or the centuries of art tied to it.

Look to your own filters, pre-conceived notions, and perceptions for your conclusions.

I apologize if I have offended anyone, including you.

Now, from an art-critique perspective:

1.  The head looks like a fly

2.  It is very, very colorful

3.  It is a highly stylized representation of said art inspiration.

4.  I did, in fact, buy it and can show you the Nova FF I currently have it equipped on.

Thanks.

 

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16 hours ago, VoidArkhangel said:

First of all, a vampire is generally associated with bats, blood, sunlight and garlic allergy wich none of them are present on the design nor on the lore. Only appears at night <- that doesnt say the sun burns affects him in fact it could just be because the eidolon shows up at night and he is connected to it.

Mental control and leeching, first mental control wich isnt that uncommon anymore so any monster could have it, leeching is something interesting and could work but seems odd since when I imagine a vampire leeching I imagine touching its victim with its former body you know the neck thing or a hand draining.

Now this is something!

How dumb of me for not thinking- viewing it this way! I disagree a bit with the spectres part but still this changes everything, if the Groove changed those frames to look like forest spirits, why we couldnt do the same? but that would imply that some tenno have the orokin tech to deform warframes or maybe you just have to ask the helminth to give it a lift up?

Still ugly af.

That really depends on when in time you look at the vampiric lore and how much of the theme they intended to apply. The things you describe are mostly post christian slavic themes, tied to a romaticism era of vampires, the same folklore that spawned the silly idea of alergic reactions to the sign of the cross. The origin of the vampire ties all the way back to ancient greece and earlier. Every culture on the planet has some form of "vampire" in their folklore, something that feeds on the life force of others, is undead, can control people and tend to be able to shift into fog, mist or smoke. And in the early stories, specifically regarding vampires, the feeding/leeching occured in the mist. The whole neckbite thing is a modern idea to give them some mystic romantic side. And the ancient greek vampires simply butchered and ate people like animals.

Even if "mental control" is more widespread now it doesnt change where the idea is mostly rooted. When I think of monsters that can mind control people my thoughts go to Vampires and Poltergeists. Just as when I hear possession I think of demons and ghosts/ghasts.

As to the specter, there isnt much to disagree with since the quest states clearly it is a specter we fight. It isnt positively the tenno that does the deforming, since we dont know where the skins actually come from because we obtain them from a black market. We also dont know why they were specifically made to begin with. I assume our appearance changing method is that we do it somehow in the orbiter, but there is no actual mechanic for it since a time sink to change skins likely wouldnt be too popular. Certain things have to be ignored for the sake of fluidity in gameplay mechanics. I for instance still cannot explain how my characters in Diablo, Path of Exile or Grim Dawn can run around with 20 cuirass, 20 2-handed swords, or 20 shields in their backpack, or how a tiny we ring takes up a quareter of the space of a full plate helmet or ½ the space of a glove in that same backpack.

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10 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Just because something is undead does not automatically make them a vampire. I will not repeat this. It should not require repeating.

Oh, definitely not. But you know what makes Revenant a vampire? The fact that Revenant was made a vampire.

10 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

He didn’t receive the vampire theme until DE let Rebecca design his abilities and she completely disregarded the Eidolon theme because she wanted a vampire frame.

In other words:

10 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

He did receive the vampire theme. DE let Rebecca design his abilities and she designed a vampire frame, completely disregarding the Eidolon theme.

As you've said, Revenant has a vampire theme. For some, that needs to be repeated, although

10 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

It should not require repeating.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Oh, definitely not. But you know what makes Revenant a vampire? The fact that Revenant was made a vampire.

In other words:

As you've said, Revenant has a vampire theme. For some, that needs to be repeated, although

He shouldn’t have a vampire theme. Not only is there nothing in the game that supports its existence, but it’s actively making him a bad frame. We could’ve had a super powerful Warframe with sentient inspired abilities, but instead we got this forced vampire frame who 3/4s of his kit is uninspired ripoffs of other frames abilities that are some of the worst designed abilities in the game.

Edited by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301
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1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

He shouldn’t have a vampire theme.

But as said, he has that theme, and that's justification enough for a vampiric Deluxe. Sure, one could argue whether or not he deserves a near-complete rework, but this is not the thread for that.

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13 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

From what I understand, the processes of killing a vampire is as follows;

Step 1: stake heart.

Step 2: remove head.

Step 3: remove literally everything else.

Step 4: burn it all, to ash.

Step 5: salt the ash.

Step 6: Bury the salted ash.

Step 7: encase salted ash in concrete, or keep it separated with hundreds of tiny stonesz

Step 8: protect the site with holy symbology, particularly of the faith the vampire has while alive.

That's the more modern take.  Ancient traditions were all over the place.  The child that was probably buried with anti-vampire precautions just had a really big stone jammed in her mouth.  In some places, someone suspected of having the potential to rise as a vampire might have a wooden stake driven through them to essentially pin them in their grave.  In another place, burning.  In yet another, beheading.  The list you have above is "modern" because it's squashing *multiple* traditions into a single sequence.

In any case, ancient vampire mythology isn't my specialty, and it's honestly not really the point of this thread.  So this would be my stop on this particular train of thought.

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Not only is there nothing in the game that supports its existence,

Orokin ideas, vanity and design supports the exsistance, just like there is a frame based on the queen of the fairies, one a neo-viking shield maiden, two that are based around death and necromancy, one based on dead women from anglian folklore, one based on a norse jotun, one based on a paladruid or druidadin, one based on a flaggelating cultist priest and so on. That doesnt make any of those frames the things they are inspired by. So Rev isnt a vampire frame, he is a frame inspired by vampires.

Or do you actually think we run around with Thor's creepy step-uncle Loki?

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5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Orokin ideas, vanity and design supports the exsistance, just like there is a frame based on the queen of the fairies, one a neo-viking shield maiden, two that are based around death and necromancy, one based on dead women from anglian folklore, one based on a norse jotun, one based on a paladruid or druidadin, one based on a flaggelating cultist priest and so on. That doesnt make any of those frames the things they are inspired by. So Rev isnt a vampire frame, he is a frame inspired by vampires.

Or do you actually think we run around with Thor's creepy step-uncle Loki?

I will remind everyone here that you are the one you originally stated that “Eidolons are ghosts. And ghosts are vampires.”

How you still remain supported in Revenant arguments is beyond me.

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6 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

But as said, he has that theme, and that's justification enough for a vampiric Deluxe. Sure, one could argue whether or not he deserves a near-complete rework, but this is not the thread for that.

Letting the thing that influenced the poor outcome of Revenant continue to influence what he receives is not a smart way to go about things.

Its like letting the Producer of “The Amazing Spider-Man 2” produce the new Star Trek content. You’re just going to keep getting bad things out of them.

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On 2021-07-01 at 3:45 PM, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

Considering the lore is made by the people releasing the skin, anything they allow is allowed. Do you feel like telling the writers how the story is supposed to be written?

I mean, we did that to Ray Bradbury once. It actually sorta worked, and now Fahrenheit 451 is down in history as a book about censorship. Instead of it's actual moral, anti-intellectualism

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