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Revenant Delux. Reconsider. Do not destroy his theme.


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1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

I mean, we did that to Ray Bradbury once. It actually sorta worked, and now Fahrenheit 451 is down in history as a book about censorship. Instead of it's actual moral, anti-intellectualism

Isn't there a story of him freaking out and walking out of a guest lecture at a university because the students insisted the popular interpretation of his work was the "right" one, and not his own? 

From what I recall, it was really all about him hating television and thinking it would make us stupid, right? 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Isn't there a story of him freaking out and walking out of a guest lecture at a university because the students insisted the popular interpretation of his work was the "right" one, and not his own? 

From what I recall, it was really all about him hating television and thinking it would make us stupid, right? 

Indeed

Ironically, he loved the 1966 movie version

Edited by TARINunit9
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15 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

I will remind everyone here that you are the one you originally stated that “Eidolons are ghosts. And ghosts are vampires.”

How you still remain supported in Revenant arguments is beyond me.

No not really. I said way back that Eidolons are revenants since they are zombified pieces of a sentient. I also said that many of the traits surrounding vampires can be found in other entities that go under the revenant label, such as ghosts that also feed on the life force of people

Ghost =/= Vampire, both however = Revenants.

And you failed to back up how exactly there is nothing to support the exsistance of a vampiric themed frame in WF.

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15 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Letting the thing that influenced the poor outcome of Revenant continue to influence what he receives is not a smart way to go about things.

Putting the cart before the horse is an even dumber way to go about things, which is what you're doing here. If you don't believe Revenant should have the vampire theme, then ok, good for you. Unless you can transition that from a personal opinion to a majority consensus and make DE give him a rework that removes the vampire theme, you have zero ground to stand on when it comes to this Deluxe supposedly not fitting Revenant's theme.

Because does it fit his theme.

You just have a personal opinion that he shouldn't have that theme.

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2 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Putting the cart before the horse is an even dumber way to go about things, which is what you're doing here. If you don't believe Revenant should have the vampire theme, then ok, good for you. Unless you can transition that from a personal opinion to a majority consensus and make DE give him a rework that removes the vampire theme, you have zero ground to stand on when it comes to this Deluxe supposedly not fitting Revenant's theme.

Because does it fit his theme.

You just have a personal opinion that he shouldn't have that theme.

The issue is everyone is easily swayed by “OMG 100% DR BEST FRAME EVA”. Also Revenant isn’t not a very popular frame only coming in at the top of the bottom 1/3 in the 2020 usage stats. But despite that minority the Revenant players here are aggressively vocal against the very concept that their precious dumpster fire is bad.

 

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No not really. I said way back that Eidolons are revenants since they are zombified pieces of a sentient. I also said that many of the traits surrounding vampires can be found in other entities that go under the revenant label, such as ghosts that also feed on the life force of people

Ghost =/= Vampire, both however = Revenants.

And you failed to back up how exactly there is nothing to support the exsistance of a vampiric themed frame in WF.

Don’t lie to me, Ervin.

You denying every piece of evidence I give does not equate to me not giving evidence. There is absolutely nothing in Revenants backstory or lore that mentions anything remotely vampire like. The only thing that remotely mentions it is the meta commentary from things like his frame description in the Arsenal and patchnotes. But that’s not concrete evidence for his theme as developer opinion can be subject to change and has no actual weight on the lore of the game. And it’s pretty much just mentioning that he mind controls people.

And your argument is still “He is undead therefor he is automatically a vampire”.

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

The issue is everyone is easily swayed by “OMG 100% DR BEST FRAME EVA”. Also Revenant isn’t not a very popular frame only coming in at the top of the bottom 1/3 in the 2020 usage stats. But despite that minority the Revenant players here are aggressively vocal against the very concept that their precious dumpster fire is bad.

Because it isn't...

2 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

There is absolutely nothing in Revenants backstory or lore that mentions anything remotely vampire like.

Correction: There's nothing in the backstory or lore of Warden itself.
A Sentient Eidolan captured and infected Warden with it's essence which, in turn, transformed Warden into (a) Revenant.

The fact that DE flavored his abilities to seem vampiric is incidental.

A turned Vampire is certainly a Revenant... but not all Revenants are Vampires.

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1 hour ago, Padre_Akais said:

Because it isn't...

Correction: There's nothing in the backstory or lore of Warden itself.
A Sentient Eidolan captured and infected Warden with it's essence which, in turn, transformed Warden into (a) Revenant.

The fact that DE flavored his abilities to seem vampiric is incidental.

A turned Vampire is certainly a Revenant... but not all Revenants are Vampires.

Well that brings up the other argument of if Warden was a vampire and the intention from the start was to make a vampire frame why waste the concept of an Eidolon themed Warframe with an Eidolon centric backstory if there was zero intention of incorporating Eidolon themed abilities onto the frame?

 

1 hour ago, (XBOX)CaptainSeth5423 said:

That moment when Revenant gets a Limbo suiting deluxe and limbo gets a revenant suiting deluxe... 

Fr. They could actually swap Limbo and Revenant deluxe and they’d honestly fit the frames better.

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5 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

The issue is everyone is easily swayed by “OMG 100% DR BEST FRAME EVA”. Also Revenant isn’t not a very popular frame only coming in at the top of the bottom 1/3 in the 2020 usage stats. But despite that minority the Revenant players here are aggressively vocal against the very concept that their precious dumpster fire is bad.

Revenant being in need of buffs  Revenant being in need of a theme change. Dude could be buffed to unquestionable godhood without taking a hair away from his vampire theme, which is kinda why I specifically wrote

7 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Unless you can transition that from a personal opinion to a majority consensus and make DE give him a rework that removes the vampire theme, you have zero ground to stand on when it comes to this Deluxe supposedly not fitting Revenant's theme.

And I think I said it before, but if you wanna complain about Revenant being bad, I suggest you make a thread about it. This one ain't it, mate.

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1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Revenant being in need of buffs  Revenant being in need of a theme change. Dude could be buffed to unquestionable godhood without taking a hair away from his vampire theme, which is kinda why I specifically wrote

And I think I said it before, but if you wanna complain about Revenant being bad, I suggest you make a thread about it. This one ain't it, mate.

*theme correction. His theme makes zero sense and simply buffing his abilities more isn’t going to fix his theme. His vampire powers need to go and he needs new, Eidolon/Sentient themed powers.

I already made a Revenant rework thread and have discussed on numerous other threads how bad Revenant is.

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11 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

*theme correction. His theme makes zero sense and simply buffing his abilities more isn’t going to fix his theme. His vampire powers need to go and he needs new, Eidolon/Sentient themed powers.

It's your personal opinion that his theme makes zero sense, that the theme needs "fixing", and that he needs new powers. You're free to have that opinion.

Revenant's theme makes sense and doesn't need any fixing. His vampire powers suit him perfectly.

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6 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

It's your personal opinion that his theme makes zero sense, that the theme needs "fixing", and that he needs new powers. You're free to have that opinion.

Revenant's theme makes sense and doesn't need any fixing. His vampire powers suit him perfectly.

It’s not my opinion! There is literally nothing in the game that supports him having a vampire theme.

His vampire theme makes literally zero sense. Any defense of it at this point is nothing but delusion.

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s not my opinion! There is literally nothing in the game that supports him having a vampire theme.

Except it is your opinion. His vampire theme is supported by him having vampire abilities. Remember?

On 2021-07-03 at 5:10 AM, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

He didn’t receive the vampire theme until DE let Rebecca design his abilities and she completely disregarded the Eidolon theme because she wanted a vampire frame.

And soon, his vampire theme will be supported by a Deluxe skin as well 🙂

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

His vampire theme makes literally zero sense.

Once again, that's just your personal opinion. Saying otherwise at this point is... Well, you said it best yourself.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

at this point is nothing but delusion.

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11 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Except it is your opinion. His vampire theme is supported by him having vampire abilities. Remember?

And soon, his vampire theme will be supported by a Deluxe skin as well 🙂

Once again, that's just your personal opinion. Saying otherwise at this point is... Well, you said it best yourself.

Him having vampire powers is the result of him having the vampire theme shoved down his throat. They weren’t like “Ok let’s make these vampire powers and put it on this frame that’s not vampire themed”. Then later be like “ok we’re going to make this frame vampire themed”. The theme is what influences the abilities. Not the other way around. And since the vampire theme has no business being on Revenant neither do his vampire themed abilities. Because you don’t look and Revenat and think “Yeah that’s a vampire”. No you look at Revenant and think “That’s an Eidolon Warframe”. And the fact that his powers don’t reflect what is blatantly obvious is absurd.

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6 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

A turned Vampire is certainly a Revenant... but not all Revenants are Vampires.

That reminds me.  I like the "Diskworld" take on vampires - all legends about vampires are true.  They just aren't necessarily *all* true for any *given* vampire.  So, are Diskworld vampires fatally allergic to sunlight?  Mostly, yes.  You probably want to make sure of it though before you pick a fight with one, just in case you throw a punch at the one who *won't* explode into ash when he chases you out into the morning's first light.  ^-^

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On 2021-07-01 at 8:27 AM, Gremlin said:

The one they are implementing looks really bad, luckily Revenant is a pretty bad frame so there's no reason to really play him anyways. Cosmetics are pretty much completely irrelevant at that point. 

...what.

Revenant is one of the strongest frames in the game.

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7 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Well that brings up the other argument of if Warden was a vampire and the intention from the start was to make a vampire frame why waste the concept of an Eidolon themed Warframe with an Eidolon centric backstory if there was zero intention of incorporating Eidolon themed abilities onto the frame?

Perhaps because they felt that the two coincided in this case?

People like to lean into Revenant's "vampiric" aspects because it's easy to do but that doesn't mean they are anything more than purely incidental.

While I tend to strenuously disagree with you on most of your opinions (just about all of them actually) on Revenant I can't disagree that his theme is fairly muddy and will remain so until we know more about Warden himself.

If I had my preferences DE would release 3 Prime Variants for Revenant:

One would be Warden.

One would be a fully Sentient Eidolan frame with skill flavoring more in keeping with such.

The last would be a Primed version of what we have now.

Revenant is one of our few "amalgam" frames and the Prime offering should probably highlight that.

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50 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Perhaps because they felt that the two coincided in this case?

People like to lean into Revenant's "vampiric" aspects because it's easy to do but that doesn't mean they are anything more than purely incidental.

While I tend to strenuously disagree with you on most of your opinions (just about all of them actually) on Revenant I can't disagree that his theme is fairly muddy and will remain so until we know more about Warden himself.

If I had my preferences DE would release 3 Prime Variants for Revenant:

One would be Warden.

One would be a fully Sentient Eidolan frame with skill flavoring more in keeping with such.

The last would be a Primed version of what we have now.

Revenant is one of our few "amalgam" frames and the Prime offering should probably highlight that.

No, it’s literally just because Rebecca likes Vampires and since she had full control over what powers Revenant got she would make him a vampire. There’s a lot of potential in an Eidolon Warframe, and it makes zero sense to completely throw that away in favor of a completely unrelated theme. Even Steve recognized that after he told them that Revenant needs to have Eidolon themed powers after he was shown off with 100% vampire themed powers.

And whatever Warden was is irrelevant as he is no longer Warden he is Revenant. And it doesn’t make sense to put a frame through such a dramatic transformation and have him not get anything new power-wise out of it.

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-07-01 at 1:02 PM, TitoElKehTeFokah said:

This is how the Revenant Delux skin should look like: https://davis.artstation.com/projects/XBddZD

That thing you showed in the dev.stream that instead of looking revenant looks like a handsome half-emo boy that has nothing to do with his theme, it doesn't fit at all. I hope you reconsider your decision. If in the end you get that skin then I'm not going to buy it, it's not worth it at all. Doesn't fit Revenant at all. It is a skin that could have been good for another warframe, with which it fits more, but for revenant it has nothing to do.

 

I know that you will not pay me any attention and still you will take out that skin that completely destroys the theme and the revenant's bearing, but hey, you had to try. All I have to do is try not to shoot myself in the eye when I see someone use it.

 

On 2021-07-01 at 1:10 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I love it. Do not reconsider. Destroy his theme.

How about DE just add both the skins instead?

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Edited by Numerikuu
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12 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

*theme correction. His theme makes zero sense and simply buffing his abilities more isn’t going to fix his theme. His vampire powers need to go and he needs new, Eidolon/Sentient themed powers.

I already made a Revenant rework thread and have discussed on numerous other threads how bad Revenant is.

He’s monumentally more powerful than the frames that actually aren’t viable...

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13 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Him having vampire powers is the result of him having the vampire theme shoved down his throat. They weren’t like “Ok let’s make these vampire powers and put it on this frame that’s not vampire themed”. Then later be like “ok we’re going to make this frame vampire themed”. The theme is what influences the abilities. Not the other way around.

In other words, the theme is supported by something in the game.

13 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

And since the vampire theme has no business being on Revenant neither do his vampire themed abilities. Because you don’t look and Revenat and think “Yeah that’s a vampire”. No you look at Revenant and think “That’s an Eidolon Warframe”. And the fact that his powers don’t reflect what is blatantly obvious is absurd.

That's your personal opinion. Because speak for yourself: I do in fact look at Revenant and think "That's a Warframe that was raised as a revenant, specifically a vampire with Eidolon influence."  His powers reflect that in an obvious way and they suit him well. 

8 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

No, it’s literally just because Rebecca likes Vampires and since she had full control over what powers Revenant got she would make him a vampire.

Once again, proof that Revenant is a vampire.

8 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

And whatever Warden was is irrelevant as he is no longer Warden he is Revenant. And it doesn’t make sense to put a frame through such a dramatic transformation and have him not get anything new power-wise out of it.

Yep, as mentioned above, he became a revenant of the vampire kind, and got vampire powers to go with it.

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I'd take this over the one we're getting any day of the week. Limbos Deluxe skin could be Revenants, I love that skin but it's also: on the wrong warframe.

It's a shame really, when your Sentient Warframe that should have a Sentient Skin: doesn't have one.

And the one that has one: doesn't suit him at all.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

In other words, the theme is supported by something in the game.

That's your personal opinion. Because speak for yourself: I do in fact look at Revenant and think "That's a Warframe that was raised as a revenant, specifically a vampire with Eidolon influence."  His powers reflect that in an obvious way and they suit him well. 

Once again, proof that Revenant is a vampire.

Yep, as mentioned above, he became a revenant of the vampire kind, and got vampire powers to go with it.


You cannot use the problematic theme as proof that the problematic theme should exist. That’s just building false evidence off a single point when that singular point is the thing being called into question.

You cannot say that everything that I’m saying is an opinion and wrong and then turn around and say that you saying “I think he looks like a vampire” as evidence that he should have a vampire theme. When that is very blatantly just an opinion

Eidolons are not vampires. It is illogical to put a Warframe through a transformation regarding the Eidolons and have them come out of it with powers completely unrelated to them.

Edited by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301
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