PvE Conclave Standing

[TheLexiConArtist]

On 2021-07-04 at 10:12 PM, Sevek7 said:

Did you not listen to anything the devs said? They removed trials because the missions broke with every update. Conclave does not break with every update so there's no equivalence here. The decision had nothing to do with the size of the fan bases, trials simply became impossible to maintain.

Conclave doesn't break with every update primarily because conclave is never in a state of repair from which it can be broken.

On 2021-07-04 at 10:49 PM, Kontrollo said:

The elephant in the room however is that Conclave isn't allowed to have any rewards that are relevant for progression in this game. The community and devs saw to that.

So this is what's left. I'd rather earn worthwhile rewards than cosmetics and would switch in a heartbeat if offered, tbqh.

I'll point out here and @TARINunit9: Conclave players did not have to spend their Nightwave Credits for the newly-universal Warframe and Weapon Augments. Pure PvE players did. Ergo, PvP gained a PvE advantage for their time spent not PvE/

 

Elsewhere in the gaming universe, we can often see PVP activities offering comparable PVE rewards. It may not be 'best in slot', but it's still able to translate PvP activity into some progression in the opposing mode. Take World of Warcraft's PvP gear for example, which could be used to make up item levels (for unlocking gated PvE activities) and fill unlucky slots with 'good enough' gear to improve yourself and do better punching not-Players.

So why, then, must PvE activities be wholly forbidden from being utilised (even inefficiently, as UniMedals sure as hell would be) towards the PvP progress?

[Tyreaus]

9 hours ago, Stormdragon said:

I'm of the idea that universal medallions as a whole were a mistake since these could allow players to entirely bypass certain content added by the devs.

Wholly agreed. It's why I agreed with Kontrollo, not OP - trading at least has a net activity level. Someone still needs to put in the time to get that thing from that area. Medallions take that time and put it toward something else entirely.

9 hours ago, Stormdragon said:

However, there is an important difference between PvE and PvP you seem to be skipping and it's how PvE can be done entirely solo, while PvP requires *at least* 1 more player to start a match. We have enough issues from a small playerbase being split across 48 discrete player pools (6 regions × 4 modes × 2 "tiers") to top it off with ways to bypass the content and reduce player count even further.

Admittedly I haven't touched upon the solo capabilities of PvE. It's not something I've found particularly relevant to what I was discussing - which was revolving around the whole "PvP stuff via PvP" principle. Totally open to being changed on that because I'm far from omniscient, I just haven't been able to tie it together.

But yes, I do agree that medallions aren't the smart way to go about things. I'll beat that horse with glee.

9 hours ago, Stormdragon said:

DE failing to make their acquisition in a way that actually gives them such value and not fixing methods used by players to exploit their way to them or even get them almost passively with enough patience -which seems to be the basis of your point- is an entirely different issue.

That's less the basis of my point and more my point wholesale. TARINunit9 says that restricting PvP rewards to PvP is a principle, as other games do that. For what reason? Let's say it's for bragging rights. Conclave's current design doesn't fit that. So is there a problem with Conclave, does the principle not apply, or maybe is there a different reason?

Frankly, the answer to that is up to taste. I've said as much. How you answer that question depends on the direction you want to take.

My entire issue is that this idea that PvP rewards should be restricted to PvP is thrown out with little thought. "It's a principle". There seems to be little analysis as to why that's a principle. It's thrown out as "the way things should be done". Is it? Maybe something is missing in Conclave. Maybe Warframe is an exception - even a slight one, e.g. to allow trading of PvP rewards. It's not like copying ideas wholesale from other games onto Warframe without considering how and why it works has ever gone amiss before (coughMercyKillcoughhackLichescoughcough sorry).

8 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

In this case it isn't out of malice, but it does still require assigning demerits to Conclave ("You can afk in Conclave for free XP") rather than comparing merits against other merits (or demerits against demerits, i.e. "you can idle in Conclave for free XP" vs "you can idle in public Disruption for free Universal Medallions")

First, you do realize that the quoted section to which you ascribe malice contains only a correction of your information, right? If you're going to classify that as malice, for whatever reason, at least get the target right: it'd be you. Not the mode. You.

Second, why are you talking about demerits and merits when I'm talking about whether the basis of a principle even exists for Conclave? The only reason I have drawn any comparison is to show that such-and-such a foundation for your principle doesn't fit with Warframe. )It's not even to knock it as a "bad design decision" - I think it's an improvement on player retention to give them something for participating no matter how bad they do.)

You even cut out the part where I said as much:

11 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

That means the "you can't get PvP standing in PvE" principle can't both be founded on "PvP requires skill" and apply to Conclave. At least as-is.

I'm pointing out that your principle about PvP rewards being acquired only via PvP doesn't fit in Warframe as it stands, insofar as I can figure out the basis for that principle - remember that "fair question" you never gave your answer to? Maybe that means Warframe needs to be tweaked somewhere for that to fit. Maybe that means that principle just doesn't apply and we look elsewhere for guidance. Like, for example, ensuring a net time investment among the populace, like trading - something that violates the "PvP only" principle on an individual basis but forbids globally PvE work-arounds like Universal Medallions. Maybe I'm just looking at the wrong base and I'm missing something altogether.

Do I need to start over from the beginning? Must I ask again what the basis is for this principle of yours, and once you point to other games, ask what the underlying reason is that those games do it that also applies to Conclave? Is that how we make headway: by starting again from square one?

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Tyreaus said:

Second, why are you talking about demerits and merits when I'm talking about whether the basis of a principle even exists for Conclave?

Because when a principle is wholly defended (I do not at all feel there is a single argument in this thread that defeats the principle) you start comparing the situation.

But if you really, really do not get the principle, let me dive into why:

2 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

So why, then, must PvE activities be wholly forbidden from being utilised (even inefficiently, as UniMedals sure as hell would be) towards the PvP progress?

This is a universal law of human competition in general: you do not buy your way into the winner's circle. It's considered so basic and obvious that it's written into books for children. If it comes from a sport -- and with all the eSports popping up, this very much does apply to video games -- it is only legitimate if earned by playing the sport.

[Sevek7]

3 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Conclave doesn't break with every update primarily because conclave is never in a state of repair from which it can be broken.

Huh? Conclave hasn't received any real updates in ~ 3 years and still mechanically works just fine. Players are able to start and finish matches both in public and private. I'm not aware of any point when this was not the case. Can you please elaborate? 

[TheLexiConArtist]

56 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Because when a principle is wholly defended (I do not at all feel there is a single argument in this thread that defeats the principle) you start comparing the situation.

But if you really, really do not get the principle, let me dive into why:

This is a universal law of human competition in general: you do not buy your way into the winner's circle. It's considered so basic and obvious that it's written into books for children. If it comes from a sport -- and with all the eSports popping up, this very much does apply to video games -- it is only legitimate if earned by playing the sport.

'The principle' is fundamentally inconsistent with what we're talking about. You're looking for a "why can't I buy an Olympic gold medal" argument, but that's not what we're talking about here. The sport is the game. Overall. The rewards are time invested in the game.

You made no effort to address the PvP progress -> PvE gains disparities both local and in the greater abstract, because there is no rebuttal. If PvP time can provide PvE rewards then there is no absolute disconnect that proves that PvE time cannot be translated into PvP in any way, shape or form.

The closest thing you have to a stable foundation is the Celestia Syandana - having to do your duties to light it up. That is 'accomplishment in the mode'. That is the only outward measure of PvP 'prestige' present in Conclave offerings.

Everything else is under the purview of base-level 'participation rewards for playing the game' for which there is no reason to consider sacrosanct from an inefficient PvE -> PvP conversion.

[Tyreaus]

41 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Because when a principle is wholly defended (I do not at all feel there is a single argument in this thread that defeats the principle) you start comparing the situation.

As I said:

1 hour ago, Tyreaus said:

The only reason I have drawn any comparison is to show that such-and-such a foundation for your principle doesn't fit with Warframe.

The point of comparison is just logical analysis. I.e., "if we followed x, we'd get y and z as consequences". For example, if we said that syndicate items should only be gotten through syndicates, and that was our (hypothetical) basis for saying PvP stuff stays to PvP, then we couldn't have trading for other syndicate items. Otherwise, we would be getting items without going through syndicates - we'd be breaking the rule. That's a consequence of adhering to that logic.

It is not a qualitative analysis. It is meant to show "if you base this principle on x reason, these parts don't jive with that logic".

To clarify: this isn't to say your principle is inherently wrong. I'm saying it's applicability in the current environment has issues.

It's like a hammer. You can have a hammer, a perfectly good one at that, with not so much as a fleck of paint shed from its handle. That doesn't mean you should go off and use it to drive a screw into a board. Those don't work very well together.

As I've said multiple times - sans the analogy - you can switch the hammer for a screwdriver, or swap the screw for a nail. The issue isn't in either element but in the mismatch.

What you're insisting is that the hammer is perfectly fine (while I haven't really said otherwise) and then swung it at the screw without looking. Because your hammer can be found in children's books. Meanwhile, I'm trying to point out that it looks like you're hammering at a screw. While telling me I must hate carpentry.

And if you think I'm changing my point again, perhaps I'll quote some parts of my replies you didn't (and one part you did!):

Spoiler

  

On 2021-07-04 at 11:24 AM, Tyreaus said:

So what's the mismatch? Are we supposed to be earning rewards through the designated avenues and it's a mistake to allow bypasses with other syndicates? Is it that Conclave syndicate reputation should reflect skill or ranking in some way and, likewise, be re-designed independent of other syndicate systems?

I find it erroneous to just go off principle without further analysis. It's like the principle of "never hit a girl": not a bad principle, but it might be worth re-thinking if they're coming at you with a knife.

  

On 2021-07-04 at 2:28 PM, Tyreaus said:

Of course, what we do from that lack of applicability depends on what we want to do. We can discard the principle or adjust the design so that the principle applies properly. Abandon the house or re-build the foundations, as it were. And precedents, whether internal or external, exist both ways. But I find it erroneous to try to apply the principle if the foundations of the principle don't apply. It holds steadfast to a principle with ignorance to the situation at hand.

  

On 2021-07-04 at 5:11 PM, Tyreaus said:

I am questioning why that principle exists - on a global scale - and based on that reason, whether it actually applies to Warframe. (Because the existence of a principle does not entail it is always applicable)

  

14 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

That means the "you can't get PvP standing in PvE" principle can't both be founded on "PvP requires skill" and apply to Conclave. At least as-is.

  

2 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Let's say it's for bragging rights. Conclave's current design doesn't fit that. So is there a problem with Conclave, does the principle not apply, or maybe is there a different reason?

Frankly, the answer to that is up to taste. I've said as much. How you answer that question depends on the direction you want to take.

My entire issue is that this idea that PvP rewards should be restricted to PvP is thrown out with little thought. "It's a principle". There seems to be little analysis as to why that's a principle. It's thrown out as "the way things should be done". Is it? Maybe something is missing in Conclave. Maybe Warframe is an exception - even a slight one, e.g. to allow trading of PvP rewards.

 

Does that make my direction clear at all?

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

The sport is the game. Overall.

Ah there's our disconnect. Yeah, that would do it.

No, I don't believe you could equate that. Conclave is the sport, since it's human against human. That's probably why the PvP maps have so much sports theming ("Capture the Cephalon" is a sport, Lunaro is just lacrosse, PvP maps are reused for the sports-themed Rathuum and Index) -- it's Tenno (human players) in a sport against each other.

And grinding out Disruption for Universal Medallions is NOT part of that sport

 

3 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

The point of comparison is just logical analysis. I.e., "if we followed x, we'd get y and z as consequences". For example, if we said that syndicate items should only be gotten through syndicates, and that was our (hypothetical) basis for saying PvP stuff stays to PvP, then we couldn't have trading for other syndicate items. Otherwise, we would be getting items without going through syndicates - we'd be breaking the rule.

Frankly I don't think we should allow that. There's a lot of items in this game I think should only be tradable for other items of the same "type." Sancti Tigris for Vaykor Marelok is fine, but Sancti Tigris for Plat is not fine. Braton Vandal Barrel for Lato Vandal Receiver is a yes, but Braton Vandal for Plat is a no

That's where I'm coming from with my "no Universal Medallions in PvP."

And since we seem to have a lot of common ground:

3 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

What you're insisting is that the hammer is perfectly fine (while I haven't really said otherwise) and then swung it at the screw without looking. Because your hammer can be found in children's books. Meanwhile, I'm trying to point out that it looks like you're hammering at a screw. While telling me I must hate carpentry.

I think our real problem is we couldn't agree whether it was a nail or a screw.

[Tyreaus]

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Frankly I don't think we should allow that. There's a lot of items in this game I think should only be tradable for other items of the same "type." Sancti Tigris for Vaykor Marelok is fine, but Sancti Tigris for Plat is not fine. Braton Vandal Barrel for Lato Vandal Receiver is a yes, but Braton Vandal for Plat is a no

The point is that there are knock-on effects, and they're made worse if there's no justification or thought put behind it. If you just say "items should only be tradable for items of the same type" and leave it at that, then there'd exist no way to get Platinum outside of paying real-world money: no trades would happen involving Plat. If that's a conclusion you want to avoid, then a line must be drawn - preferably with justifications so it doesn't end up into another cascade of knock-on effects.

(Not to mention said vagueness leaves open a slew of fuzzy definition problems. Consider this example: Conclave mods and PvE mods are both mods, so they're the same type and can be traded. Conclave mods and Conclave skins are both Conclave rewards, so they can be traded. By association, PvE mods should be able to be traded for Conclave rewards. You probably don't want that, but if you're lacking care, that's where you can end up.)

That said, I want to observe something:

On 2021-07-03 at 7:47 PM, Tyreaus said:

So what makes it a problem with PvP that leaves it A-OK with PvE? Or is it not okay to be done in PvE, and progression in syndicates should be done within those syndicate activities (as before Universal Medallions)?

  

On 2021-07-04 at 11:24 AM, Tyreaus said:

So what's the mismatch? Are we supposed to be earning rewards through the designated avenues and it's a mistake to allow bypasses with other syndicates? Is it that Conclave syndicate reputation should reflect skill or ranking in some way and, likewise, be re-designed independent of other syndicate systems?

It took 3 pages to get an answer for these.

6 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I think our real problem is we couldn't agree whether it was a nail or a screw.

If you're saying that we shouldn't be able to get Syndicate items outside of their respective Syndicates (or at least outside the Syndicate system), then you agree it's a screw. It's a screw because the way things are now, we can get Syndicate items outside Syndicates. But we say we shouldn't be able to do that. Clearly, the way things are and the way things should be don't jive, right? Well, that's your screw and your hammer there.

[ShyPup]

On 2021-07-04 at 12:23 PM, TARINunit9 said:

I'm reading your argument as "Nobody else cares about Conclave, so let me break this principle to get a thing I want."

I'm reading all of your arguments as "everyone should subscribe to my principles because I said so damnit!" 

[TARINunit9]

7 minutes ago, LittleSnowNeko said:

I'm reading all of your arguments as "everyone should subscribe to my principles because I said so damnit!" 

Mmm, my apologies if it came across that way

[BiancaRoughfin]

On 2021-07-02 at 4:36 AM, Leon_Aeris said:

There really should be a way to gain standing with the Conclave outside of public PVP matches, as next to no one is playing Conclave except with their squad/friends. This makes it next to impossible to rank up in the Conclave and locks most people out of the entirety of Teshin's rewards, many of which are not available anywhere else. I do hope DE will address this issue in a future update.

As i said in other posts about Conclave Standing, by me i would remove PVP completely from the game, move some of the Nightwave Challenges to Teshin as Daily challenges that award standing with him, challenges like "x Kills wile Airgliding" or "x Kills with Finishers", "x Kills with specific Element" or "x Kills with Melee/Secondary/Melee".

[Sevek7]

3 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

As i said in other posts about Conclave Standing, by me i would remove PVP completely from the game, move some of the Nightwave Challenges to Teshin as Daily challenges that award standing with him, challenges like "x Kills wile Airgliding" or "x Kills with Finishers", "x Kills with specific Element" or "x Kills with Melee/Secondary/Melee".

That's a nice way to reduce the number and diversity of active players.

[BiancaRoughfin]

7 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

That's a nice way to reduce the number and diversity of active players.

Yeah, because PVP in warframe is such a big active community isnt it? Derp...

[Stormdragon]

3 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

i would remove PVP completely from the game

What's this fixation with removing content from the game while completely disregarding players who enjoy it?

Especially keeping in mind that, even though i don't like the idea, i'm sure that implementing it could be done without removing anything from the game.

[Sevek7]

26 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Yeah, because PVP in warframe is such a big active community isnt it? Derp...

You know what else is small?

The Eidolon hunting community, the fishing / mining community, the pet breeding community, the K-drive community, the Captura community, the long Survival community, etc...

The fact is that the game community at large is composed of a large number of smaller communities, each corresponding to a small part of the game.

So, if your only argument for removing Conclave is "the community is small" then you must be in favor of removing all of those other parts of the game, too.

Unless you have some other arguments for removing Conclave? Do share.

[BiancaRoughfin]

18 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

You know what else is small?

The Eidolon hunting community, the fishing / mining community, the pet breeding community, the K-drive community, the Captura community, the long Survival community, etc...

The fact is that the game community at large is composed of a large number of smaller communities, each corresponding to a small part of the game.

So, if your only argument for removing Conclave is "the community is small" then you must be in favor of removing all of those other parts of the game, too.

Unless you have some other arguments for removing Conclave? Do share.

Eidolon Hunting, Fishing and Mining are core gameplay features the player has to go through in order to level up reputation with some factions and acquire materials to craft some equipment. Wile the comunity of players that continue doing those even after having maxed out and bought everything they need is small, there is still a market for Arcanes, Fishes, Gems, and Pet breeds which keep the market flowing.

Conclave adds nothing that affects the game's core gameplay, there are no mods you can take into normal missions, there are no special arcanes that affect you frame, weapons or operators, you have no resources or items that you can trade.

From time to time Conclave bugs hard and DE has to turn their attention to fixing it, every time they release a new weapon it has to go through a balancing process for Conclave which is pretty useless since i only hear of players using snipers in most conclave matches.

DE never planned on adding PVP to the game in the first place, they only added it so players would stop complaining on the forums and as some have stated here in the forums "To prove they have bigger brains than the rest". They tried implementing Lunaro to be a PVP mode without players killing each other but it was a massive waste of time and at launch was a major cluster fck as balls many times wouldnt enter the goals or would enter and not count points and most of the players would just get near the other and spam E to stun lock others with the Arcata which by the way its been years they said they would try making it into an actual weapon to use in missions tho i guess they abandoned the idea.

[Stormdragon]

23 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Conclave adds nothing that affects the game's core gameplay,

By request of PvE players. People like you throw hissy fits over cosmetics that don't affect gameplay in any way, so i can only imagine what would happen if DE suddenly added arcanes, mods, weapons or even frames that can only be obtained through PvP gameplay but offer mastery and work in PvE. You'd probably be in the front lines of such complaints.

23 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

DE never planned on adding PVP to the game in the first place

That's a null statement since DE never planned to add archwings, railjack, open worlds (with their minigames), k-drives, liches/sisters, sigils, armors, ephemeras, etc. in the first place. But here we are...

If you're against DE adding stuff that "wasn't planned in the first place", might as well find a way to download and play on the old closed beta build instead of sticking to the current one.

[Sevek7]

55 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Conclave adds nothing that affects the game's core gameplay, there are no mods you can take into normal missions, there are no special arcanes that affect you frame, weapons or operators, you have no resources or items that you can trade.

I agree. Conclave should be better integrated with the PvE side of the game. Glad we agree on this one :)

56 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

From time to time Conclave bugs hard and DE has to turn their attention to fixing it, every time they release a new weapon it has to go through a balancing process for Conclave which is pretty useless since i only hear of players using snipers in most conclave matches.

Everything in this game bugs hard from time to time. Again, you suggest this is a reason to remove Conclave, so then you must want to remove everything else that bugs out too. New weapons are by default disabled in Conclave, not balanced. There is no "balancing process." You definitely heard wrong, snipers are a fun playstyle in Conclave but far from the most common.

57 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

DE never planned on adding PVP to the game in the first place

Okay... So lets remove everything that DE didn't plan in the first place? Are you sure you want DE to remove just conclave and not the entire game?

Look, I think Conclave should be kept and improved but I'll admit that there are legitimate arguments for why Conclave should maybe not be kept. But all of your arguments for scrapping Conclave apply to the entire game, so you clearly haven't thought very hard about it.

[SpicyDinosaur]

@Sevek7you're wrecking the complaints about PvP, don't you know soley PvE players can't handle that kind of thing? Too challenging to make a cogent argument. :P

[Nebu4]

On 2021-07-02 at 9:44 AM, Quimoth said:

Universal medallions were going to be this. Then people made angry posts on reddit and twitter and we were back to conclave. Yes, the part of warframe that has been neglected ever since the big flop we call Lunaro.

If you do want/need the standing, I suggest getting a friend to do all daily objectives with. PvE conclave standing is a farfetched dream that won't be coming anytime soon.

There have been several suggestions already, including people trying to best others in PvE content and what not. Who can kill quickly, who can stay alive longer etc.

I could be wrong, but I've heard that cheating on those daily challenges will get you in problems with DE

[Kontrollo]

On 2021-07-06 at 3:28 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

Conclave doesn't break with every update primarily because conclave is never in a state of repair from which it can be broken.

If you have no clue about what is and isn't working correctly in Conclave then maybe don't even comment on it. Fact is, it was in relatively good shape a few years ago, and it was PvE updates over time that caused its current, sorry state.

Overall in the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't even need that much dev investment to bring it back to that level, but they're only fixing a few things over time, and always less than they've broken.

 

On 2021-07-06 at 3:28 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

I'll point out here and @TARINunit9: Conclave players did not have to spend their Nightwave Credits for the newly-universal Warframe and Weapon Augments. Pure PvE players did. Ergo, PvP gained a PvE advantage for their time spent not PvE/

That argument is so backwards I have doubts you even want a sincere discussion here. As soon as they made things available to use in PvE as well, they also introduced a way to acquire it there. People who play PvP still have to invest the time to unlock these things through PvP, there is no unfair advantage in that.

The reverse is not true.

There's no way to get Warframes or weapons through PvP, except the starter Warframes, and they're only available at the highest rank. I honestly wonder how many people ever went through the Conclave to unlock one of those.

On 2021-07-06 at 3:28 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

Elsewhere in the gaming universe, we can often see PVP activities offering comparable PVE rewards. It may not be 'best in slot', but it's still able to translate PvP activity into some progression in the opposing mode. Take World of Warcraft's PvP gear for example, which could be used to make up item levels (for unlocking gated PvE activities) and fill unlucky slots with 'good enough' gear to improve yourself and do better punching not-Players.

So why, then, must PvE activities be wholly forbidden from being utilised (even inefficiently, as UniMedals sure as hell would be) towards the PvP progress?

You're still progressing towards it in PvE. Where else do you get all the weapons and Warframes? And as I said already, all the dual mods (i.e. also made available in PvE) are also unlockable in PvE.

Besides, most Conclave mods are either side grades, minor upgrades or weapon/Warframe specific augments that make the respective thing "fit better" in the PvP environment. But e.g. weapons that don't have an augment are balanced for the mode with that in mind. Well, at least that's what it was like a few years ago. You know, when there were devs who were actually putting some time into it.

 

The only things that are exclusive are some mods that are not (yet?) unlocked/balanced for PvE and cosmetics. That's literally it.

[Kontrollo]

23 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

As i said in other posts about Conclave Standing, by me i would remove PVP completely from the game, move some of the Nightwave Challenges to Teshin as Daily challenges that award standing with him, challenges like "x Kills wile Airgliding" or "x Kills with Finishers", "x Kills with specific Element" or "x Kills with Melee/Secondary/Melee".

Well, good thing you are not one of the devs.

Seriously, the game already is 99% PvE. They almost exclusively update that part of the game these days, to the point that the PvP part has gone downhill over the years because they won't even fix all the bugs and exploits they introduce with PvE updates.

But somehow you "PvE-exclusive people" are still not happy. Makes one wonder.

[----Legacy----]

21 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Eidolon Hunting, Fishing and Mining are core gameplay features the player has to go through in order to level up reputation with some factions

Core features? Eidolon hunting only locks an unnecessary layer of powercreep, fishing and mining can be totally bypassed by doing actually core gameplay activities (i.e. shooting enemies) like defeating Thumpers, orbs, or isolation vaults.

21 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

From time to time Conclave bugs hard and DE has to turn their attention to fixing it, every time they release a new weapon it has to go through a balancing process for Conclave which is pretty useless since i only hear of players using snipers in most conclave matches.

The huge balancing process you mentioned is as hard as changing a flag from "enabledinpvp=1" to "enabledinpvp=0". You'd have a point if new weapons were kept in a balanced state instead of being outright disabled from the mode.

21 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

DE never planned on adding PVP to the game in the first place, they only added it so players would stop complaining on the forums

It was already pointed above, but that can be said about over half the stuff we have in the game right now.

[(PSN)Pragmatic_2015]

Simple problems require simple solutions. 

Option 1:- Index/Rathuum/Steel Path give conclave standing 

Option 2:- Add Lunaro to option 1 but with bots.

Option 3:- Add certain conclave only accessories/mods to the Steel Path honors store that rotate on a weekly basis.

Option 4:- Treat Conclave syndicate as a Steel essence sink.

TEAL DEAR. Opening up the conclave with as many already existing methods that complement what is already there is a start.

[(PSN)II2j-ZII]

Why not just play with your friends?