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Honest question - What's the game design point of making new frames in the current state of the game (other than monetary reasons)


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In my opinion, the amount of frames we have is starting to reach a limit. There are too many frames to pick, and most of them you'll only play for a few missions overall. Not to mention lots of frames literally do the same thing that countless others do, with basically similar abilities with 1 or 2 added quirks. The latest frame, Yareli, is just proof they really don't care if said frame already exists but in another form cough Hydroid. Rather than making carbon copies with a fresh coat of paint, they should focus on making new systems like helminth or modular frames (which is what I hope the new Bash Lab will be used for), reworking pre-existing Warframes to make them more unique and less boring, or just make radically different Warframes with crazy designs. I'm cool with 2 to 3 frames fitting the same niche, but if 10+ frames already exist solely for AoE damage bursts, or if 4 literally tank solely by high HP, what's the point anymore. Even worse is having, 2 Warframes with literally identical themes. If anything those places should be filled by frames that change the game in general or are unorthodox like Nidus or Gauss. Sure I get it's hard to make each frame radically different, but now I think they should divert their attention elsewhere. Maybe I'm wrong, that's why I want to here your suggestions. I'm genuinely fixed on this topic.

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I don't think Yareli and Hydroid are comparable for the same reason I don't think Gauss and Volt are comparable.

But overall, yes. I agree there are simply too many frames. It's the same problem as too many weapons out of which you only use a fraction as better weapons replace weaker ones. You can argue that DE are just creative and like to experiment; Yareli is a K-drive frame.

But at the end of the day it's just money and new content. There's an interview with Reb in which she flat-out recognizes that their data shows player activity dropping when there's some time without new content because WF has a retention problem due to lack of endgame content. Thus, only new content revitalizes the game.

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Crazy, a company becomes successful doing something, then chooses to continue to do that 'thing' as it seems to continue generating revenue, truly crazy.

Also this isn't Pokemon where we have 1000 or so of them bumbling around, so still more room to add more frames, that and most people want 'new' things not 'reworked/tweaked'. Companies have to play to the customer yah? (unless you are part of Hollywood apparently)

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Posted (edited)

Like how would we keep enjoying ourselves if not by being given new stuff to play with all the time?

I actually like some of the more recent frames. The last 3 years, of every 3 new frames released i enjoyed at least 2 to a great degree. Those that I didn't like were Garuda, Baruuk, Grendel and Xaku. Were they however poorly designed? Aside from Grendel I think they do overall still have quality and good mechanics, just not the mechanics I enjoy.

Hydroid is quite the opposite of yareli btw. He is an immobile semi-tanky frame. She will be a highly mobile (rewarding said mobility). Comparing the both is just wrong. I would be in more agreement if you tried to compare yareli to zephyr or nezha but even that comparison is still way off.

Edited by Quimoth
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26 minutes ago, (XBOX)Hyperion Rexx said:

DE have to release new frames on a regular basis in order to keep being able to release Prime Access every 3 months as that's a huge chunk of the company revenue. 

He specifically asked for non-monetary arguments... :facepalm:

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EH, it's an RPG game basically. It's mostly for RP purposes I think. Not like you can't nuke 95% of the content now with like 95% of the current arsenal anyways.

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Posted (edited)

I agree there are too many frames, and they need to spend more time bringing old, outdated frames up to speed rather than making new ones which end up feeling like a variation on a theme. But unfortunately I don’t think they have any intention of stopping, as that’s kind of their monetization model. A “free to grind, pay to skip” game doesn’t make money if there aren’t new things to grind/pay for.

I do absolutely think they need to slow warframe production to only 2 a year because having a 5 year gap between original frame release and prime release is just ridiculous, which is where they are heading if they don’t slow it down a bit. I mean think about it, even if they eventually reach a point where they say, “ok, that’s it. we’ve made our last Warframe,” it will still be another 4 or 5 years before the prime of that frame is released. That’s bonkers to me. Entire games come and go in that amount of time.

Edited by (PSN)sister-hawk
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Tradition. The game thrives on customization, so naturally a new playable character along with new guns and sticks coming with the next major update is to be expected. All the Tenno Reinforcements, TennoGen, Mainlines, Hotfixes in between are fillers.

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I really think we reached saturation quite some time back from a feature/capability perspective,

There may be more thematically variant frames (which will actually make little to no sense on how they actually fit that theme once you see their abilities) but i do not expect to see frames add any new playstyles , so new frames will just be better or worse variants of older frames going forward.

There may of course be the occasional unique concept once in a while (necramech frame 2022?), but i really cant think of one in the last few years. There will need to be a rather significant shift in the core game for that to happen.

The main reason that frames keep being made , in my opinion , is monetary.

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If DE don't make new(or repeated) stuffs, then you will truly play The End(game). Perhaps new frame Yandere is a clear sign that this game is going towards the weeb path lol

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)NuclearSquiddy:

In my opinion, the amount of frames we have is starting to reach a limit. There are too many frames to pick, and most of them you'll only play for a few missions overall.

there are extremely many plants outside. they look different and function differently.
if you think there are too many warframes or devs are about to run out of ideas, then you are extremely wrong.

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I do think more resources should be devoted to polishing this game.  

 

Case in point, when I'm using a K drive in Eidolon hunts to take advantage of that on mount invincibility, about 1 in 3 times when I dismount I can't shoot or use abilities until I mount and dismount again.  And Yareli, a K drive focused frame, will drop next week.

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paragraphs, get your paragraphs here! hot fresh paragraphs!

2 hours ago, (XBOX)NuclearSquiddy said:

, they should focus on making new systems like helminth or modular frames (which is what I hope the new Bash Lab will be used for),

ah yes, people have been hoping that this new lab won't just be an addition for the sake of an addition.. when was the last time anyone went into their Orokin Lab? you gotta think about that and then wonder if DE aren't goign to do the same with the Bash Lab. don't get me wrong, I'd love for it to get some expansions, especially new unique Zaw and Kitgun possibilities, but I expect that DE won't touch it again after the update.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)NuclearSquiddy said:

reworking pre-existing Warframes to make them more unique and less boring,

they do get around to this, look at Zephyr's recent changes. the problem is that it takes time, and if the rework master Pablo is busy with other stuf, he can't work his magic on fraems that need it, like Hydroid, Loki and Nyx.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)NuclearSquiddy said:

or just make radically different Warframes with crazy designs.

dude, over the past year we've had a frame that's made of cobbled together pieces (Xaku), a frame that has two separate forms (Sevagoth) and now one that has a friggin' exalted surfboard. what exactly is "radically different" then? seem to me every frame is radically different from the last.

at this point we literally have every single theme covered by something to some degree, so there is bound to be some overlap in terms of powers and function, and the main reason for continuing to make frames is simple: DE have to keep making new content, or they won't attract new players, who are the most likely to spend cash. maybe it would be a stretch to say the game would "die", but the impact would certainly be noticeable if DE had way less to spend on the game. and yes, I know you asked for non-monetary reasons, but there aren't really any, so *shrugs*.

it sounds to me like you may be suffering from burnout, and could benefit from taking a break. 

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3 hours ago, (XBOX)NuclearSquiddy said:

The latest frame, Yareli, is just proof they really don't care if said frame already exists but in another form cough Hydroid. Rather than making carbon copies with a fresh coat of paint...

Lol, "water-themed" does not make these two frames carbon copies of each other. They share a cosmetic, that's as far as it goes.

Hydroid is designed around trapping the enemy, throwing down somewhat soft but constant CC. Harass and harangue the enemy through set-and-forget location-based abilities. Augments add enemy debuff (Corroding) and team support benefits (Heal on Undertow, Status immunity on Riptide, loot on Tentacles).

Yareli is unreleased and so her design notes aren't final or 100% confirmed, but from what we've seen she has more of a mobile striker design. A spammable but short-range light CC damaging skill, mobility, a DR, orbital constant damage and a draw-in spot nuke in her ult. Yareli appears to be designed around remaining in constant motion to optimize her application of damage. Augments are many months away.

Based on their design, and not their cosmetic, I think Hydroid is more like Vauban, and Yareli will be more like a ground-based Zephyr. Hydroid and Yareli seem very differently designed from each other.

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New frames are content that people are interested in.  And every new frame is going to be someone's favorite frame.  It's the same reason they keep making new Pokemon: because people like new things.

It doesn't even make sense to suggest that DE is making content people don't want so that they can make money.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, (PSN)kadeliza740 said:

Crazy, a company becomes successful doing something, then chooses to continue to do that 'thing' as it seems to continue generating revenue, truly crazy.

You are wrong.  New frames are just a tiny, very little part of Content updates.  And the "thing" that makes DE successful is their frequent updates and cooperation with community.

Even if they stop releasing new frames, as long as Quests, bosses and missions keep coming, its going to be good.  

 

So I agree with OP. There is a large amount of frames that can cover any role already.......And new players will most likely buy Trinity instead of Yareli... Coz old frames are much more stable in their roles.   There is not much point to add new ones....  They are like awkward "variants" of existing frames....there are no new roles added to the teamwork...and gameplay doesn't expand with more frames...

Edited by Kainosh
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Posted (edited)

Just something new to keep you playing and its easier to make than new missions or quests. And I consider frames to be intersting playable content  - you just need to actually play the frame, learn how it works, try it in different missions instead of just ranking it up and going back to your old familiar frames. New frames add variety to the game.

Also people will play frame for the looks alone even if it's not great skill-wise. 

Edited by Monolake
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Posted (edited)

It's not even monetary reason. It's literally to help keep this game relevant. This game would DIE if no new weapons and frames are released. It's on life support. 

Most of the people here being sarcastic regarding your post haven't even played this game for 1 year and are talking as if they are some experts. Of course they would love if DE released a new frame every 3 months. They have just started this game. They have never used the outdated frames loki, frost, ember, etc. They get the new octavia, gara, etc. and see nothing wrong with this.

OP, it's life support for this game. 

Edit: Most of the older players aren't even playing this game. I think another open world (Deimos) destroyed their desire to even continue with this.

Edited by Prime_Reckoner
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1 hour ago, Kainosh said:

You are wrong.  New frames are just a tiny, very little part of Content updates.  And the "thing" that makes DE successful is their frequent updates and cooperation with community.

Even if they stop releasing new frames, as long as Quests, bosses and missions keep coming, its going to be good.  

Yes new 'Things' new weapons new warframes new modes are what DE has done and has been why the game has lasted so long, because they knew people liked what they made and wanted 'more'.

Quote

So I agree with OP. There is a large amount of frames that can cover any role already.......And new players will most likely buy Trinity instead of Yareli... Coz old frames are much more stable in their roles.   There is not much point to add new ones....  They are like awkward "variants" of existing frames....there are no new roles added to the teamwork...and gameplay doesn't expand with more frames...

Maybe a new player will, maybe they will buy the newest hotness, each person is different. Many games do not add ANYTHING new and stagnate to such a degree that there is no real way back without some 'miracle' update. Elite Dangerous or your pick or Madden/Fifa games versus No Mans Sky or Warframe etc.

 

The Simple thing is that we are a consumerist society, always looking for the 'new and exotic' as opposed to fixing what is serviceable but old, a sad truth that the world(and every industry) is in. Yes I would like if they touched up some of the old frames/content but so many games are out their that just float along without any update, kept alive by their ever dwindling fanbase. A fanbase that does not want change since they like the game as is(which is fine) but means that there is no real drive to want to get more players(and paying players) to give them a try.

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It is DE's business model and its only way of survival, and that is not open to criticism.

What can be criticized is that they do exclusively that, while the core of the game is in pieces.

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Warframe is a power fantasy that embraces variety. Just like with guns and weapons, we each have our likes and dislikes and we want to use them in a way that is fun and exciting. Ironically, this is exactly why the difficulty levels, as viewed by vets and hardcore players, is not high. DE wants the frames to be varied and enjoyed without having to deep dive into how to get each one to break through to Mot or Steel Path unless desired. 

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