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Deconstructor Melee Modding Changes (Sisters of Parvos)


[DE]Rebecca

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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

According to whom? The devs themselves or min-maxers?

FYI, all exalted weapons were stat-sticks prior to 2018. DE changed the weapons alone so they were something you can mod for. The logical expectation was for all statstick abilities to get that treatment. In my opinion, that change is long overdue.

Yeah all the exalted weapons were changed so they can be moded…that’s why the same exalted weapons are afected by this nerf,that’s why the same exalted weapons can’t use all the mods.

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

I don't agree with this assessment. These "caster" frame's abilities scale with the melee combo counter as well. Thus, there is an expectation of you using your melee with them rather than sacrificing your melee to them. Yes, they build combo at this moment. No, that was not something you could rely to build using the ability alone prior to Melee 2.9 in October 2019 because scaling the combo counter required thousands of hits instead of 220. Just like the Decaying Dragon Key shield getting issue, people relying on it and building around it is more on the side of oversight resulting from changing a different mechanic than intended use. Not to mention that some of these abilities (Whipclaw) don't offer the function people build around for on their own. After all, Accumulating Whipclaw is an Augment; it is not a a default part of the frame's core ability and design.

Tbh the skills have their own scaling.

Atlas fists have their own combo 

Khora’s whip scales with mod and acumulatong whipclaw(hitting enemies)

Gara doesn’t scale to anything

This melee tradeof you are talking makes no sense and is not like shield gating.

You are requiered to mod a weapon in order to affect a skill that acts like a weapon…the skill becomes the weapon how hard can it be?

Both khora and atlas mod just enhance their kill potential….And please tell me how someone mods for acumulating claw which is a has a hitting enemies condition?

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Yes it does. The performance expectations trickle down. Just today, Brozime made a video highlighting the secondary weapons that will benefit the most from the new arcanes and mods. Only 5 weapons, with his conclusion being that "You may notice a pattern of AoE, this is what is expected to be good from now on". That mentality is a problem, and the same mentality applies to just 3 WF's that dominate because of the ability to indirectly use Rivens.

Are you insane? Atlas (0.10%),Gara(0.89%) and Khora(3.38%) according to https://www.warframe.com/2020stats . Excluding Khora which is the most used warframe for farming steel path the rest just barely seen the light of day…and what exactly these warframes dominate,come on     
 

Brozime? Really? If you need Brozime to tell you how these changes will affect the game you still have a long way until you understand stasticks and the role of the 3 frames that use them.

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

The irony here is that you, as a 2020 player, are judging the game based on the state of the game by the time you joined totally oblivious (Willingly or not) to how those very frames operated prior to some changes made prior to the time you joined and how the current way they play seem to be leftover oversights from systematic changes made to other systems rather than the frames themselves. Being disingenuous or ignorant about history while accusing others of not understanding something only makes you look foolish on top of arrogant.

What’s funny is that you don’t actually know when i joined,and as all the other wf players want to validate their point compare the hours spend ig like it equals with experience.I know warframe’s history,I was there when it was written including the dark times when revives were 3 plat.

I’m not accusing,it’s a statement.You don’t actually understand the difference between shattered lash, landslide,whipclaw and the rest of exalted melee the same way you don’t understand how the changes will impact said warframes.Try to invest some time into building and exploring these warframes,not all warframes need to have the 0 modding complexity 

 

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2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

They will have to if they want to get the game to a spot in which they can start considering adding end-game content that won't be cheesed and invalidated after 10 minutes. There is no way around it as long as we have our current absurd power levels.

You really think after 8 years they are going to make those sorts of changes to the game? Thats hilarious ..... Also, if they want end  game content, they can do what destiny does where the player is set to a certain level when you enter the activity, you don't have to literally ruin the game for that. 

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2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

They will have to if they want to get the game to a spot in which they can start considering adding end-game content that won't be cheesed and invalidated after 10 minutes. There is no way around it as long as we have our current absurd power levels.

END GAME OMEGALUL

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4 minutes ago, spudster888. said:

You really think after 8 years they are going to make those sorts of changes to the game? Thats hilarious ..... 

I can only hope. After all, our current power levels wouldn't allow it even if they want to.

4 minutes ago, spudster888. said:

Also, if they want end  game content, they can do what destiny does where the player is set to a certain level when you enter the activity, you don't have to literally ruin the game for that. 

That wouldn't work here. We can currently deal with the enemy cap like they were butter. We need to be nerfed so enemy levels matter, until a level 300 enemy is deemed a problem or dangerous.

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1 minute ago, spudster888. said:

Maybe you need to find a new game if thats what you want, because warframe will never have it. 

DE starting to remove the bandaids and lowering our damage ceiling doesn't look like it. They are starting to equalize things and close loopholes.

Keep it coming I say.

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9 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

They will have to if they want to get the game to a spot in which they can start considering adding end-game content that won't be cheesed and invalidated after 10 minutes. There is no way around it as long as we have our current absurd power levels.

There is always a way around, saying there is no way around is just a lack of imagination.

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27 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I no longer remember the exact values myself, but the difference in upkeep due to combo counter duration was a bigger balancing mechanism. It became more sustained and easier to pull with the 2.9 melee revision. Duration was no longer a concern, so those mods were replaced with more damage buffers as well.

Which did slightly offset the much higher multiplier loss, unless you used Power Spike in which case it was a really brutally massive loss (worse than merely the CO change) OR were already only basing your DPS off 2.5x combo as it was only 45 hits and then relied on it being enough with corrosive or slash (and maybe cold, as back then it gave increased condition duration).

I mean naturally combo duration going from 3 to 5 was really big, but more so the importance of the gap between floor to average performance to potential ceiling (which also delayed the ramp speed of scaling mods like old BR, even if its calculation was whack) meant circa level 40~+ enemies actually had a tiny bit of kill time (if we ignore meme strike, which again mostly whack because of how BR calculated it, as clearly even DE have no problem with FLAT 80%~140% crit as thats what they gave heavy attacks for literally no reason).

Point is either way:

19 minutes ago, Shemarria said:

My god... *blink blink* a nerf that makes actual sense?

It doesnt make sense because DE isnt fixing Vigilante set bonus from applying.
One rule for thee another for me shouldnt be the point of a well designed game as this isnt even about different gameloops.
Same pets just randomly different rules.

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5 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I can only hope. After all, our current power levels wouldn't allow it even if they want to.

That wouldn't work here. We can currently deal with the enemy cap like they were butter. We need to be nerfed so enemy levels matter, until a level 300 enemy is deemed a problem or dangerous.

I mean quite frankly, if they go this route watch the playerbase hemorrhage. We don't need to be nerfed, like at all. 

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2 minutes ago, Nyarllathoteph said:

There is always a way around, saying there is no way around is just a lack of imagination.

Not always. Some content is so tightly-designed that you only have 1 way around it, like the Exploiter Orb vs Nova, And it was quickly patched out. Nothing else lets you skip phase 1 of the fight anymore.

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This is incredible. 

This is why we can't have nice things. 

DE fixes a longstanding bug people were making use of for an extra boost, that any with common sense knew was a bug and not intended -- it was clearly something that needed to be fixed. 

And people cry nerf.

I'm not sure whether I should laugh or just shake my head. 

I hope most of you are joking. 

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2 minutes ago, spudster888. said:

I mean quite frankly, if they go this route watch the playerbase hemorrhage. We don't need to be nerfed, like at all. 

They are already bleeding players because the game is too easy and lacks challenge. Reb publicly acknowledged it in an interview.

Something's got to give, and they seem to be lowering our damage ceiling rather than raising it.

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2 hours ago, PookieNumnums said:

how are rivens being a stat sticc affecting mod an oversight? you literally just said 'affected by equipped mods' while rivens are in effect an equipped mod.

Only DE can comment on whether that interaction fits into the category of an oversight or not, so I admit I might be wrong there. However, it is an unhealthy interaction regardless.

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1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

They are already bleeding players because the game is too easy and lacks challenge. Reb publicly acknowledged it in an interview.

Something's got to give, and they seem to be lowering our damage ceiling rather than raising it.

If players are leaving because of a lack of challenge, why has the game ever had a playerbase because its always been easy ...... Your logics really bad when you  consider that point alone

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10 minutes ago, Nyarllathoteph said:

There is always a way around, saying there is no way around is just a lack of imagination.

The problem is there are two ways around it, and every time DE addresses them, people go on a whiny rampage on social media. 

Way 1) Make the enemies truly more powerful. I don't mean up their stats, I mean bring back all the stuff people complained so much about.

Nullies that require you to keep a high rof weapon. 

Unnerfed Orb Vallis enemies, all restored to their original opness

back breaking liches

rollers stagger locking you if you don't move quickly enough

sapping ospreys that make the floor is lava with blue glowing death

manics that pounce and beat up your face with deadly slash procs if you don't move quickly enough

bursas that weren't nerfed to nothing 

etc. etc. etc. 

Or:

Way 2) Nerf the players, 

There IS no other way. If you think you have some magic answer, explain it. 

The only thing they other thing they ever tried or could try was forcing mass cooperation like in trials, were people had to stand on freaking buttons, and it made it content almost no one did without voice chat. And clans still found ways to beat that with just a few people using almost any frame combination. 

What's your magic button solution? Use your imagination, and give us one. 

Edit: Also, if you think any game can survive in today's competitive market without providing a challenge to players, you are purposely deluding yourself, simply because you are angry about nerfs and not seeing things clearly. 

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4 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I can only hope.

That requires further nerfs though. Significantly more.

It requires to NOT be able to gain immortality , infinite energy, killing trough walls , infinite dmg , TURNING OFF ENEMY AI with a button press.it requires significant nerfs to the core gameplay or enemies that counter you harshly . Lets take the champions from destiny for example. There could be elite enemies buffing every enemy around them to gain skill immunity, dmg reduction , toxin bullets. so YOU HAVE TO take them out with a specific way, skills only , primary only , this enemy can only be killed with a bow etc. ( ofc the mission would tell you beforehand that what weapon you need to get down with these enemies. Hard counters to our skillset. With that said , the energy leech could use a rework so it drains you faster but it connects you to itself with a beam so you can actually kinda see where it is. There could be elite enemies slowing you and speeding the other units , and only killable with a specific thing that you have to use against them otherwise they will screw up your run. ( forexample more elite enemies in the field the longer those dmg reductions stack and you cant kill them the normal way just the specific way that the game tells you ) these ways could be randomized by weekly or daily , today pistols , thomorrow beam weapons and abilities and so on.

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il y a une heure, fo3nixz a dit :

will new  melees also reset combo count like the xoris when used with exalted abilities or will this be another "oversight"?

...new melees will have infinite combo duration, like the Xoris ? (it was this feature, combined with "scaling" abilities (you know which ones I mean) that called for that "bombo-reset" also feature)

 

Genuily wondering if I understood the point correctly or something else

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4 minutes ago, spudster888. said:

If players are leaving because of a lack of challenge, why has the game ever had a playerbase because its always been easy ...... Your logics really bad when you  consider that point alone

Because of hope the game may improve? Because improvements take time? Because DE publicly acknowledging the issue allows for people to remain hopeful? Because they see DE taking babysteps, but steps nonetheless?

Again: They are lowering our damage ceiling. That's not an opinion.

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2 minutes ago, potiisbest said:

It requires to NOT be able to gain immortality , infinite energy, killing trough walls , infinite dmg , TURNING OFF ENEMY AI with a button press.it requires significant nerfs to the core gameplay or enemies that counter you harshly . Lets take the champions from destiny for example. There could be elite enemies buffing every enemy around them to gain skill immunity, dmg reduction , toxin bullets. so YOU HAVE TO take them out with a specific way, skills only , primary only , this enemy can only be killed with a bow etc. ( ofc the mission would tell you beforehand that what weapon you need to get down with these enemies. Hard counters to our skillset. With that said , the energy leech could use a rework so it drains you faster but it connects you to itself with a beam so you can actually kinda see where it is. There could be elite enemies slowing you and speeding the other units , and only killable with a specific thing that you have to use against them otherwise they will screw up your run. ( forexample more elite enemies in the field the longer those dmg reductions stack and you cant kill them the normal way just the specific way that the game tells you ) these ways could be randomized by weekly or daily , today pistols , thomorrow beam weapons and abilities and so on.

DE has sort of tried that before, they've had truly tougher enemies. That's what is so frustrating. People just complained so much they nerfed them, proving DE can actually make some challenging enemies if they want. 

SP at least, imo could be a good chance to test something like this, at least to start with. 

On SP, we could have the fully rebuffed versions of all the old enemies that people complained about until they got nerfed to be only slightly more threatening than anything else. 

Bursas, Manics, Orb Vallis enemies in general, Sapping Ospreys, Nullies, etc, used to be so much more threatening, and just throwing on more stats doesn't matter because we can just overkill damage. 

I want the SP to have enemies with their nerfs reversed. Now that might be a fun challenge. 

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1 minute ago, Astral_AEther said:

...new melees will have infinite combo duration, like the Xoris ? (it was this feature, combined with "scaling" abilities (you know which ones I mean) that called for that "bombo-reset" also feature)

 

Genuily wondering if I understood the point correctly or something else

new melee the combo is paused when holstered, wil this reset when use with those abilties? thats my question.. 

and sorry if question sounds weird, english not my written language

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I mean, with out the Gladiator mods, you can just use the Adraza, it has a predictable consist crit buff that affects all weapons even Vaubans 2. And if you are doing only melee, you are constantly healing it with Pack Leader. Might be a drag because my Ash is going to change some, but not by much and he is mostly affected but combo duration.

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