Deconstructor Melee Modding Changes (Sisters of Parvos)

[spudster888.]

Just now, vanaukas said:

How so? Saryn it's used to maximize affinity farming or to level up other people weapons, not because the mode demands it, so I honestly don't understand your comment at all.

Which is only possible because you can spam her 1. If spores were her 4 she would be significantly less good in ESO. Pablo seemed to think these were reasons to nerf her, which is what caused the backlash

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

Well, yes, but they never compensate for nerfs. They never buff useless broken stuff. They will not make Helios worth using on it's own merit, best case they will nerf anything else remotely useful (technically they are nerfing Smeeta by making the important stuff despawn after 5 minutes).

I mean, that's an entirely valid point, but I think people should be harping on the right thing here. 

I feel like... I am in a twilight zone, where instead of using this as a chance to demand DE make all sentinels useful/survivable/useable on their own, and give them a good pass, people are just asking to have the (sort of, depending on your perspective I guess) broken thing back, that can be abused/used for if nothing else, ease of modding utility, even if not directly buffing yourself, when those people don't even really like the thing.... they just use it as a stat/utility-stick. 

[ReaverKane]

1 hour ago, Petroklos said:

oh it deals with them just fine, just don't tell people I told you

Dread was the first weapon i ever catalysed and forma'd... I know how good it can be, just not good enough.
 

 

56 minutes ago, Shemarria said:

My god... *blink blink* a nerf that makes actual sense?  End-times Tenno, end times.
🤣
Kidding aside; disabling these mods since they have no effect on the sentinels makes absolute sense.  THIS is the only nerf coming up with Sisters of Parvos that I actually agree with.

The ONLY one mind you, but yeah.

Regardless of the mean spirited and utterly boneheaded nerfing of TENNO Melee coming up  I'm looking forwards to the rest of Sister of Parvos update.  Especially  Yarelli 😍🥰💖

Can not wait to get our surfer-scout 'frame hanin'-ten on Boxhead and G'neer helmets.👍  

~Stay safe.
Keep the faith.
...  and as always; keep your skanna sharp, Tenno.

It makes sense, sure.
It doesn't make sense coupled with the rest of the melee nerfs, and ineficient primary improvements, AND the fact that they singled out the melee version, while the primary version of that interaction is apparently being kept.
If they're nerfing guardian set, they should nerf vigilante as well.

Also, doesn't address the fact that a lot of warframes that rely on exalted (and exalted adjacent) melee skills are getting a huge nerf, especially considering that melee 2.9 was incredibly detrimental to that. Exalted weapons are universally worse than regular melee. There's really no reason to use them, and DE is just making that divide even worse, because they're incredibly out of touch with the game.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I feel like... I am in a twilight zone, where instead of using this as a chance to demand DE make all sentinels useful/survivable/useable on their own, and give them a good pass, people are just asking to have the (sort of, depending on your perspective I guess) broken thing back

People did that for 8 years with zero results to show for it. Just not going to happen. What is going to happen, is that DE is breaking one more of our toys (Helios).

[SaiKrithik]

3 hours ago, Floppion said:

And so the divide between low crit melee and high crit melee is getting wider and wider....

"the arsenal divide"

[(PSN)Warframe_Elite_1]

2 hours ago, TTraw said:

Now, please, make sentinels actually worth using.

nah,too much works they prefer nerfing things it's much easy if i have understand their logic they will nerf the smeeta kavat if the new robotic pets are underused because no one use them

[PublikDomain]

4 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I feel like... I am in a twilight zone, where instead of using this as a chance to demand DE make all sentinels useful/survivable/useable on their own, and give them a good pass, people are just asking to have the (sort of, depending on your perspective I guess) broken thing back, that can be abused/used for if nothing else, ease of modding utility, even if not directly buffing yourself, when those people don't even really like the thing.... they just use it as a stat/utility-stick. 

Yeah, but people have been asking for this. For a long time. And instead of making all sentinels useful/survivable/usable on their own like everyone's been asking for years, DE's only nerfing one of the specific interactions that people actually use. And so instead of using Deconstructor to buff Crit Chance people will just use Ardaza. We had 2 choices for this niche, and instead of making more choices viable DE has made it so there's now only 1 choice. They could have instead allowed all Sentinels to equip Deconstructor, and given beast companions moddable melee weapons (Claws, Fangs, etc) so that every choice is an option.

DE isn't fixing the system as a whole, they're just putting a bandaid over one of the symptoms.

[DebrisFlow]

3 hours ago, .durandle. said:

means the mod will not even be visible for modding that weapon
same as say serration is not visible when modding a melee as it is a rifle mod
or split flights is not visible when modding a lenz or bramma despite them being bows
and might i remind you that the non aoe bows note on spilt flights was added after baro arrived with it

Right, completely forgot that in those cases mods are invisible, silly me :p

[Joezone619]

About time these were fixed, now fix sentinels not being viable enough as companions please.

[Leon_Von_Comarre]

13 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

About time these were fixed, now fix sentinels not being viable enough as companions please.

I mean, between the Verglas, synth mods and the new parazon mod that allows for infinite revive they seem to be in a decent place to me? I've been running sentinels even without the new parazon mod with no problem, and it can melt enemies up to SP and output amazing status.

[Andele3025]

34 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Except Orb Vallis denemies got elite variants that where actually stronger than the pre-nerf versions within 10 days of the orginal versions being nerfed.

Yup, sad part is per simulacrum they wouldnt be if they didnt lie about their level.
If you adjust the fake display "level" down to instead measure by ehp of equivalent regular units (for not just OV and Juno, but especially Railjack) you actually gert about the same performance. Railjack enemies start at 20~ish (which due to how stats scale, gaining 10-18 effective levels worth of free stats as they scale up each time) and OV non-elites gain around should start around 18~ish (gaining 9~13 free levels worth of stats with scaling).

And thats ignoring how OV still has bugged stuff like AW weapons that fire at regular frames/things not in archwing for 4k+ base damage, their plasmors and opticors arent bothered by silly things such as inability to headshot or collision and those damn embattor moa bounce pads that ignore CC immunity and cant even be destroyed by slam attacks literally requiring you to play rhino or nezha to not have to spam /unstuck every 15 or so minutes if you let them live even for a second.

[kulow]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

which is a many-year-old oversight we’ve lived with, but are approaching changes more thoroughly with this Update and as a result we’re patching up this behaviour. 

Very nice to see, that you're adressing many years of abusive behaviour and fix it. Does this go only for melee or does this go for primary and the secondary companion weapons too ?

This is surely another reason to look forward to the next update. Feels like I'm getting rewarded for not relying on bug abuse =)

[(PSN)Oracle-Raven]

These changes thoroughly suck.
This game can't stop getting worse...

[DrivaMain]

Good riddance. I know that tactic is "exploitable" and gonna get nerfed eventually. Now, can you actually fix Exalted Melees by removing their mod type restrictions?

Oh you should probably do a balance pass on companion weaponry in general. They are pure garbage.

 

[spudster888.]

15 minutes ago, kulow said:

Very nice to see, that you're adressing many years of abusive behaviour and fix it. Does this go only for melee or does this go for primary and the secondary companion weapons too ?

This is surely another reason to look forward to the next update. Feels like I'm getting rewarded for not relying on bug abuse =)

This is the funniest thing i've read this week

[(PSN)RWalls91]

What about vigilante mods on sentinel weapons?

[Kaiga]

Nerfs dont diversify loadouts dum-dums. No reworks, no QoL, no survivability for companions, 

One step forward, two steps back into the monkey's paw sillyness as usual.

[Okami_Amaterasu]

And just like that, Helios is useless outside of new updates.

[Rebore]

See DE can do things like changing/fixing things if they wish to.

On the other hand they wont fix any actual problems in the game but only things that are "trivial" that players use like this sents as statsticks or like Limbo in SS.

I am fine with this change as I have been really only using my Kavat for charm buff for doing fissures as to the only thing I do.

[Alexis_Walker]

Why disable allowing set mods entirely though? Couldnt you have just disabled their set bonus from counting? I really love the jugulus mod on deconstructor purely for its boost to impact damage and status chance. I couldnt care less about the set bonus.

 

Also why are you disabling quickening? That was a really good mod for increasing deconstructor's fire rate... So what if its secondary effect gimmick didnt work? Let us use it for its primary effect dangit.

 

If the mods have secondary functions that dont work as intended, FIX THEM. Dont just take them away! Their primary functions are still needed!

[Token]

2 hours ago, DonGheddo said:

Yup ,they need a huge nerf aswell , please DE 

Do u just not like having things that hit hard !? 

 

[smashedwookie]

10 minutes ago, Alexis_Walker said:

Why disable allowing set mods entirely though? Couldnt you have just disabled their set bonus from counting? I really love the jugulus mod on deconstructor purely for its boost to impact damage and status chance. I couldnt care less about the set bonus.

Probably for the same reason they could not add a toggle for Gara glass. it would create bugs, so they took the easier safer way of completly disabling them.

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

This just seems like overkill. I was fine with the melee changes before this (other than concerns with Berserker being on kill rather than on critical hit), but I don't really see the reason to remove the functionality of the Gladiator set mods and such from Deconstructor. Its part of your loadout and set mods that are equipped to the Sentinel's weapon should still count in my opinion. Plus, its a rather niche strategy typically reserved for buffing Exalted melee weapons because, for whatever reason, they still can't use mods like Blood Rush and the like. It gives reason to use Sentinels over Kavats and the like. It also seems strange that only Deconstructor and the like were addressed here, but not things like the Vigilante mod set doing the literal same thing for ranged Companion weapons and your loadout. This to me shows a weird, heavy bias going on against melee right now if not all instances of this scenario are being addressed but rather JUST companion melee weapons. I also find it suspicious that this information was dropped the day before the update rather than at the same time as the other developer workshops. Almost comes off as a calculated measure to dilute backlash. Again, this is coming from someone who largely didn't care about the other melee changes. I understand removing mods that have zero effect on the weapon AND your loadout, but mods like the Gladiator set mods did provide a useful bonus and were absolutely NOT "invisible." You can see in the upgrade screen that having set mods equipped on a Companion does in fact increase their potency throughout your loadout via the little progress bar at the bottom of each set mod. 

I strongly dislike this change, but if you are dead set on making it, then be consistent and remove this functionality from all Companion weapons, not just the melee ones. Furthermore, give Exalted weapons the QOL change they deserve and let them use Blood Rush, Body Count, and every other mod that they are currently unable to use that aren't exclusive to a specific weapon or something.

[General_Durandal]

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

There’s also some ‘invisible gear hopping’ where if you put Mods on your Deconstructor (or Prime), the carry over to your Melee which is a many-year-old oversight we’ve lived with, but are approaching changes more thoroughly with this Update and as a result we’re patching up this behaviour. 

Which was the only reason to use Deconstructor, because it's not very good,
and you still had to have at least one mod from the set on your actual melee to make it work.

There are sets that have mods that go on your pets,
why not let weapon set mods go on pet weapons too?

It also wasn't invisible, you could see it clearly.

This *behavior* is acceptable because it's *bugs*,
but you could have turned it into a feature instead.

~

Also, when are you getting rid of out-of-bounds areas?

The reason you added them was so we wouldn't get stuck in parts of the map,
but now that everyone can wall hop endlessly, double-jump, and bullet jump,
there is no-where we can't reach.

The out-of-bounds areas make playing online annoying in maps with elevators,
because the elevator will move for the host first,
meaning in the host's game, you will just phase through the floor and fall into the out-of-bounds area,
causing you to teleport out of the elevator.

[Xcallion]

As many others here have already said:
Preventing the set bonus from working on your melee is a logical thing to do if you want to bring melee in line.

Preventing the mods themselves from working seems a tad harsh.  A handful of the mods on the list are actually good for the sentinel weapon itself rather than the sentinel weapon as a statstick.