Update 30.5: Helminth Update Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[addamrobin2]

just installed the segment aaand no automatic xp carry over...

another nice way to punish people that actually play your game

i've only subsumed around 30(?), but i can feel the pain of early adopters that subsumed all warframes

i don't care about the people complaining about the random 3 warframes each week, in fact i think it's a good way to actually push players to try different warframes for once, but the fact that you keep screwing people again and again like this is really frustrating

are you going to punish people again once you decide to increase the helminth level in the future?

[Tesseract7777]

The complaints about not having xp carryover are just sad. I think I have given up on trying to even reason with you on any of this. 

If you think this is anything beyond unreasonable entitlement, you are missing the point of videogames entirely. 

You are supposed to play them, to earn things. And you want content from the new update to be handed to you. 

Just play the game, use invigorations, and you will be maxed again in no time flat... not answering anyone who @'d me to argue because there is no argument. 

If you expect a videogame to just give you free xp because you had xp "wasted" (and if you really have that mentality, have you EVER played an MMO?) from when there was a lower level cap, you not only have a really bad sense of entitlement, but you haven't played a lot of videogames before, and you are just being silly, no offense... 

This is an indefensible complaint, and it isn't feedback. It is just whinging that you have to actually work for an new update instead of having it handed to you. And that is not what feedback is. 

[Sojufueled]

It seems to me that most helminth abilities are superceded by a better warframe ability by the time you unlock them. For instance hideous resistance is going to be better than pillage is only very narrow circumstances (like before an eidolon pulse or something). 

[Grav_Starstrider]

59 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The complaints about not having xp carryover are just sad. I think I have given up on trying to even reason with you on any of this. 

If you think this is anything beyond unreasonable entitlement, you are missing the point of videogames entirely. 

You are supposed to play them, to earn things. And you want content from the new update to be handed to you. 

Just play the game, use invigorations, and you will be maxed again in no time flat... not answering anyone who @'d me to argue because there is no argument. 

If you expect a videogame to just give you free xp because you had xp "wasted" (and if you really have that mentality, have you EVER played an MMO?) from when there was a lower level cap, you not only have a really bad sense of entitlement, but you haven't played a lot of videogames before, and you are just being silly, no offense... 

This is an indefensible complaint, and it isn't feedback. It is just whinging that you have to actually work for an new update instead of having it handed to you. And that is not what feedback is. 

I think you'll find that the vast majority of responders disagree with you, and that you are the one missing a point.

Whether people want the XP back, or whether they want an alternative compensation, they don't want freebies, handouts, or to skip content. They want credit for one-time-doable, non-repeatable things that they spent time and effort to do. Imagine if a NEW player didn't realize the mastery tests were a thing, or procrastinated retrying after a failure, but kept ranking new warframes. Would you suggest that their MR experience shouldn't carry over towards the next mastery rank when they finally do their rank up? Or would you suggest that when DE finally does a significant update/rework to focus, that they wipe out all of the banked focus points we'd stockpiled?

Just because the Helminth System didn't have a player-facing bank of points being saved up, doesn't mean that we should be screwed over like this, punished for doing one-time-doable things by being "encouraged" to dump more resources into a system most of us consider ill-conceived.

Even if we have to DO the invigorations, and/or additional Infusions, our non-repeatable, already-complete efforts should be compensated for via things like resource and resource chance boosters so that we can more easily earn the resources we shouldn't even have to be re-farming in the first place, or universally loved evergreen rewards like Catalysts and Forma for the new weapons that arrived, or Kuva.

As other posters have pointed out, these comparisons to level caps in other games is ludicrous. In other games, there aren't MASSIVE one-time-use-only earnable EXP chunks that are the primary way of levelling up, that players are punished for completing, and told that they HAVE TO engage with a new type of content to level up further, when the newer/ slower players are allowed to use the previous EXP chunks to rocket directly to the new level cap. 

This isn't a thing that other mmo's do. This is not "a new level cap that all players can put equal effort into in order to reach". This is a shallow, hostile attempt at extending content length for those with lesser quantities of remaining/available content, and forcing the adoption of new content that was otherwise nearly universally criticized. 

[Tesseract7777]

8 minutes ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

I think you'll find that the vast majority of responders disagree with you, and that you are the one missing a point.

Whether people want the XP back, or whether they want an alternative compensation, they don't want freebies, handouts, or to skip content. They want credit for one-time-doable, non-repeatable things that they spent time and effort to do. Imagine if a NEW player didn't realize the mastery tests were a thing, or procrastinated retrying after a failure, but kept ranking new warframes. Would you suggest that their MR experience shouldn't carry over towards the next mastery rank when they finally do their rank up? Or would you suggest that when DE finally does a significant update/rework to focus, that they wipe out all of the banked focus points we'd stockpiled?

Just because the Helminth System didn't have a player-facing bank of points being saved up, doesn't mean that we should be screwed over like this, punished for doing one-time-doable things by being "encouraged" to dump more resources into a system most of us consider ill-conceived.

Even if we have to DO the invigorations, and/or additional Infusions, our non-repeatable, already-complete efforts should be compensated for via things like resource and resource chance boosters so that we can more easily earn the resources we shouldn't even have to be re-farming in the first place, or universally loved evergreen rewards like Catalysts and Forma for the new weapons that arrived, or Kuva.

As other posters have pointed out, these comparisons to level caps in other games is ludicrous. In other games, there aren't MASSIVE one-time-use-only earnable EXP chunks that are the primary way of levelling up, that players are punished for completing, and told that they HAVE TO engage with a new type of content to level up further, when the newer/ slower players are allowed to use the previous EXP chunks to rocket directly to the new level cap. 

This isn't a thing that other mmo's do. This is not "a new level cap that all players can put equal effort into in order to reach". This is a shallow, hostile attempt at extending content length for those with lesser quantities of remaining/available content, and forcing the adoption of new content that was otherwise nearly universally criticized. 

I already said I don't care what people @' at me. 

This isn't an argument. 

This is how video games work. Either you want to play them or you don't. The point of a new update is to play it, not to be given it. 

This is why WoW made you fight for new levels, and didn't care how much xp you had past the level cap that didn't go anywhere. If you don't agree with that basic vision that all video game companies have for videogames, to ensure you actively play, that's okay.

You are entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to think videogame companies are generally wrong to use this psycholigical stragey. 

But this is like complaining, imo, about how the sky is blue.

This is how the industry works.

They are not going to give free levels to veterans who have overlap xp when level caps are increased, because they want you to spend time playing the game.

That is why I say all of you are missing the point, because you are looking at it from the player perspective, not from the business perspective of the CFO's telling the devs ultimately what to do, who want to make sure even the vets are actively playing and grinding the new update.

It's the same reason your resources don't mean garbage in a new open world and the stuff you need to build.

There is a lot of pressure to make sure you have something new to grind for.

I don't mean to be insulting, but that's why I say if people don't see this THEY are missing the point. They have to take into account the devs overall vision for the game, which is controlled by the office of the chief financial officer and realities thereof, and at the end of the day, pleasing the players only matters so much if the cannot meet that singular goal. 

Sorry, I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, just talking business realities. DE is a company that needs to make a profit, and their vision may not always coincide with ours. DE isn't just going to give us stuff, because it means less player engagement with a new update.

And the financial pressures of that are more powerful than a few vets complaining about so called "wasted" xp points. 

[Grav_Starstrider]

27 minutes ago, Sojufueled said:

It seems to me that most helminth abilities are superceded by a better warframe ability by the time you unlock them. For instance hideous resistance is going to be better than pillage is only very narrow circumstances (like before an eidolon pulse or something). 

This is honestly a problem of ability balance in general. And ultimately convergent functionalities. There are only so many things an ability is probably going to provide, for brevity's sake we could possibly simplify things down to "damage, survivability, mobility, cc, and utility", though I could be missing a broad category, or just a specific niche that fits into none of these. So every warframe ability can approximately only do some combination of these things, and we have over 40 warframes subsumable abilities covering different combinations already. They can't make helminth abilities outright BETTER than equivalent warframe abilities, or else it'll ALWAYS be applied instead of the weaker warframe's equivalents. Or just different in a way we will usually prefer less often. 

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

You are supposed to play them, to earn things. And you want content from the new update to be handed to you. 

Just play the game, use invigorations, and you will be maxed again in no time flat... not answering anyone who @'d me to argue because there is no argument. 

If you expect a videogame to just give you free xp because you had xp "wasted" (and if you really have that mentality, have you EVER played an MMO?) from when there was a lower level cap, you not only have a really bad sense of entitlement, but you haven't played a lot of videogames before, and you are just being silly, no offense... 

17 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

This is why WoW made you fight for new levels, and didn't care how much xp you had past the level cap that didn't go anywhere. If you don't agree with that basic vision that all video game companies have for videogames, to ensure you actively play, that's okay.

No, let me craft for you a more accurate analogy:

Let's say, in WoW, they add a new expansion. New levels. 

But the existing quests in current content are giving equal experience to the entirety of quests in new content, while being easier because they are tuned for the current level cap.

And current quests must also be able to give level-scaled items as their rewards, in order to make them fully equivalent to new content quests.

Add to that the supposition that completing all of the current-content quests holds some value for reasons beside experience: Reputation, items, sub-content unlocks, sheer completionism, etc.

Now you've created something closer to the Helminth situation: The old content is as profitable as new content, is more time-efficient to use for progression, yet active players consumed that finite resource before it could be used for new content.

 

But of course it's not like that, is it? Old content in WoW is inefficient for progressing compared to the new quest content, as it does not give the necessary new-content-power in items, and is outscaled in the experience on offer. And you don't get to do both at the same time. You'd have to waste time doing old-content tasks in old-content areas mutually-exclusively to progressing through new-content quests and zones.

[Grav_Starstrider]

2 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

This is why WoW made you fight for new levels, and didn't care how much xp you had past the level cap that didn't go anywhere.

I established in my comment in like, 4 different ways, how this is not equivalent.

You aren't actually letting other people have their opinions, you're saying their opinions are wrong, and are whiteknighting DE's decisionmaking, when everyone else is pointing out SEVERAL logical inconsistencies with their completely brand-new stance.

I tempt the monkey's paw, but this honestly would have only been consistent for DE if they had also capped each focus tree, and the entirety of the railjack intrinsics, so that nobody could have stockpiled beyond what was currently obtainable. This is NONREPEATABLE resource-for-exp expenditures that they have locked us out from. As previously said, this isn't a player cap to keep them on equal maximum footing for a while, with a cap being raised to allow new or old players equal opportunity to reach the new cap. They have ACTIVELY SABOTAGED us by allowing us to waste non-repeatably-earnable exp.

And if DE's decisions consistently swing towards disrespecting our time/money just so they can have us spend more time and money with them, eventually something's gonna give, and people are going to find a different hobby, and these comments are our warnings to them to be more courteous, or at least SMARTER or more sneaky about their little ways of squeezing more time/money (pay-to-skip/accelerate).

Your counter-criticisms of DE are not actually consistent with other MMO behaviors, and not even consistent with DE's current systems, or their semi-usual (often lackluster, delayed, and indicative of poor initial planning/balancing, but reasonably appreciated) restitutions when they make changes to existing systems (such as railjack, or forma for Saryn's rework, etc).

Please genuinely look for the inconsistency in their explanations and yours, the entire thread is full of people who have seen them.

[addamrobin2]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The complaints about not having xp carryover are just sad. I think I have given up on trying to even reason with you on any of this. 

If you think this is anything beyond unreasonable entitlement, you are missing the point of videogames entirely. 

You are supposed to play them, to earn things. And you want content from the new update to be handed to you. 

Just play the game, use invigorations, and you will be maxed again in no time flat... not answering anyone who @'d me to argue because there is no argument. 

If you expect a videogame to just give you free xp because you had xp "wasted" (and if you really have that mentality, have you EVER played an MMO?) from when there was a lower level cap, you not only have a really bad sense of entitlement, but you haven't played a lot of videogames before, and you are just being silly, no offense... 

This is an indefensible complaint, and it isn't feedback. It is just whinging that you have to actually work for an new update instead of having it handed to you. And that is not what feedback is. 

nobody is entitled, people grinded for those warframes, people subsumed those warframes, people deserve those xp

nobody wants anything handed to us, people actually worked for those things

[Grav_Starstrider]

27 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The point of a new update is to play it, not to be given it. 

Also, geez, I've said "give us boosters and/or evergreens if you want us to 'earn' the new levels instead of giving them to us" several times. You are just flat out ignoring multiple people pointing out the logical inconsistencies here, and while I haven't seen others making the same suggestions, you're ignoring the fact that I've given alternative solutions/compromises despite the fact that you're replying to those very messages giving the alternatives! 

[Grav_Starstrider]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Have you ever played WoW?

When they came out with a new expansion that increased the level cap, did they just give veterans new levels?

Has any game?

This is a rhetorical question, for the most part.

I bet you can't name one. 

Note also that just because they call it "levels" doesn't immediately mean it's equivalent to character levels, btw. Nobody's asking for Saryn polarizations to immediately re-rank her to 30 just because she's done a survival mission since she last hit 30.

Btw, You're glossing over the better analogy that was already given, I see. Here you go.

17 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

No, let me craft for you a more accurate analogy:

Let's say, in WoW, they add a new expansion. New levels. 

But the existing quests in current content are giving equal experience to the entirety of quests in new content, while being easier because they are tuned for the current level cap.

And current quests must also be able to give level-scaled items as their rewards, in order to make them fully equivalent to new content quests.

Add to that the supposition that completing all of the current-content quests holds some value for reasons beside experience: Reputation, items, sub-content unlocks, sheer completionism, etc.

Now you've created something closer to the Helminth situation: The old content is as profitable as new content, is more time-efficient to use for progression, yet active players consumed that finite resource before it could be used for new content.

 

But of course it's not like that, is it? Old content in WoW is inefficient for progressing compared to the new quest content, as it does not give the necessary new-content-power in items, and is outscaled in the experience on offer. And you don't get to do both at the same time. You'd have to waste time doing old-content tasks in old-content areas mutually-exclusively to progressing through new-content quests and zones.

[UdsUds]

Have Invigoration to have a small lingering effect. Please.

From the example of Atlas +1000 armor, after the week your Atlas frame will have +250 permanent armor bonus. (That is Non-stackable to other invigoration) 

When you invigorate Atlas again with another set of effects like the "200 strength 75 efficiency" the +250 permanent armor bonus will be removed.

After a week again with the "200 strength 75 efficiency" you'll end up with +50 or less strength lingering.

 

Like some sort of specialty effect on warframes, or like some small kind of progression.

Thanks!

[Sojufueled]

1 hour ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

This is honestly a problem of ability balance in general. And ultimately convergent functionalities. There are only so many things an ability is probably going to provide, for brevity's sake we could possibly simplify things down to "damage, survivability, mobility, cc, and utility", though I could be missing a broad category, or just a specific niche that fits into none of these. So every warframe ability can approximately only do some combination of these things, and we have over 40 warframes subsumable abilities covering different combinations already. They can't make helminth abilities outright BETTER than equivalent warframe abilities, or else it'll ALWAYS be applied instead of the weaker warframe's equivalents. Or just different in a way we will usually prefer less often. 

I am not sure I share that concern. I am curious how many people are using the helminth abilities actually. Empower I expect sees a little use. Marked for Death had a moment of mediocrity before its demise as well. I could imagine new players getting more mileage out of these abilities if they weren't locked behind a deep grind. The rank 15 one is especially amusing this way.

[Grav_Starstrider]

33 minutes ago, Sojufueled said:

I am not sure I share that concern. I am curious how many people are using the helminth abilities actually. Empower I expect sees a little use. Marked for Death had a moment of mediocrity before its demise as well. I could imagine new players getting more mileage out of these abilities if they weren't locked behind a deep grind. The rank 15 one is especially amusing this way.

I don't really feel like it was a "concern" I had,  as much as it was just an observation. You're right that there are definitely some unique, worthwhile Helminth abilities, I just wouldn't expect the direct competitors to existing abilities to be outright better, only different. And that's honestly fine, don't want any Helminth abilities to be no-brainer options that are consistently better than other abilities 99% of the time. At the same time though, I think DE really needs to do another pass over the Subsumed abilities, since so many are a complete joke, meanwhile several of their selections were so ludicrously effective they had to nerf them to be half as effective, or only doing half of their things. I'm still upset that they used Warcry and Roar  and Quiver with nerfs instead of buffing Ripline and Charge, and giving us Navigator simply as-is. Meanwhile options like Mind Control or Decoy are still such jokes when things like Vapor Specters exist. 

I guess my overall point is that there's only so many things abilities can do, but DE hasn't seemed to figure out how to make each Subsume/Helminth ability a theoretically situationally "best pick". Its ridiculously universally "use Roar, Warcey, Larva, or Dispensary" even with their nerfs.  I think it's also an issue of their game designs creeping towards rewarding massive quantities of enemy kills above all other approaches. So single-target or setup-dependent or utility-based abilities end up feeling wasteful. There might not be solutions other than doing an entire pass over all abilities and/or gameplay reward systems. Should be considered though, I'd like to get some "space ninja" vibes back instead of increasingly gravitating towards the "genocide is the best approach" deal.

[(PSN)thorfinn01]

Apart from Yareli, I previously went and subsumed every warfame available, even going so far as to re-grind every single base frame so I could keep my leveled up ones in my inventory.

Today I logged in and collected the new helminth upgrade and installed it..... to no avail.

You can imagine my disappointment (but really no surprise) to find that the punishment for my eagerness was that none of the work past the 10th metamorphosis counted. None of those frames subsumed or resources spent have been recognized towards 11 - 15 metamorphosis.

I was looking forward to using 12 and 15 which, for my style of play, would have been the first useful things to come out of Helminth, but no. Got to go back and do more useless grind so I can artificially inflate your stats on usage to make middle managers look better.....
 

[Indecisive1]

Just posting this to +1 the notion that RNG invigorations and not compensating early Helminth adopters is bad for numerous, already mentioned, reasons.

It's unfortunate and and honestly quite frustrating that the devs seem to be intentionally ignoring a large amount of the feedback, both pre and post-update, regarding this. 

[Kokomala]

XP not carrying over is more than fine. With the exp values from invigorations being what they are, in 5 weeks this will be a non-issue - nothing is make or break or a "must have it now" to the point where not getting it in 2 weeks will break your gaming experience, nor will someone with frames to go getting it 2 weeks earlier impact your gameplay either - you are most likely more progressed in this game overall than those who are currently working through it.

If you have that much of a FOMO reaction, then by all means use the infuse/feed loop with resources to get there. You have that choice.

[FelisImpurrator]

Helminth Invigorations shouldn't have a random selection of frames. I'm fine with random buffs and a full selection of frames, expanding to a wider selection the more you rank up Helminth - or a set of fixed, weaker buffs, still on any frame selection. I don't really personally care about competitive flexing or minmaxers relying on specific combos, and just want fun buffs, but I do care about not having build diversity pigeonholed by the flavor of the week.

That being said, the potential toxicity of Recruitment chat as a result of possibly having 'ONLY 200% STRENGTH RHINO, ALL OTHERS IGNORED' might be enough of an issue that perhaps it's best to just offer fixed buffs that don't randomly give you an Arbitration's worth of ability stats.

Also, as an early adopter who actively sold nonprimes, and consequently did the grind *and* spent plat for most of the warframes available... I really don't care about the lost XP. It's not so crippling a loss that I see a need for the overdramatic responses. I've benefited from having the abilities unlocked so much that it doesn't feel like a loss at all.

But, aside from all the bad faith and insults being thrown around... perhaps the number of subsumed Warframes should apply a scaling permanent bonus to Helminth's future XP gains, retroactively tracked by the number of flowers in the garden? That would make progression through Helminth's system faster for new players and people who subsumed everything alike, allowing the 40-frame completionists to rocket through the last five ranks very quickly with a handful of invigorations and infusions.

[(PSN)MrTrixer]

I just fed my Helminth some resources, my exp went from 10th metamorphis 0/13,500 to 1,400/13,500.

Its been quite some time since i hit the 10th Metamorphis and after that i continued to collect warframes to unlock more abilities, i paid for those i found to be a pain, i grinded weeks for those i was able to get normally (I will never go back to fight Tyl Regor ever again..) but here i am at the starting line instead of getting all the accumulated exp from all the infused warframes that ive fed Helminth with ever since. I have unlocked 46/60 abilities now, and if i have to learn/unlearn skills and feed the Helminth resources all the way to Metamorphis 15..

Come on, that is just unreasonable. Give us the accumulated exp that we missed please, its not fair that all our hard work collecting abilities is gonna get overlooked now of all times..

[quxier]

11 hours ago, Paranoicon said:

Retroactive Helminth XP should be given for subsumed Warframes. Not necessarily for anything else. Just subsumed Warframes.

Infussion should counts as well. For few frames I even maxed slots (6x) and even infused few times.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, FelisImpurrator said:

Also, as an early adopter who actively sold nonprimes, and consequently did the grind *and* spent plat for most of the warframes available... I really don't care about the lost XP. It's not so crippling a loss that I see a need for the overdramatic responses. I've benefited from having the abilities unlocked so much that it doesn't feel like a loss at all.

It's still an active disadvantage. How much have you 'benefited' from unlocking, say, Decoy? Or any of another dozen-or-two utterly forgettable subsumed abilities. You just did it because it's a daily restriction anyway, so why not get it done while you have the frames to burn. Only now that decision screwed you.

It's also the sheer principle of what this entails going forwards. I'll give you two comparable scenarios, one on an old system and one more current concern:

1: Imagine you, today, take all your Eidolon shards and burn them into your Focus stockpiles despite having maxed every item and every pool already. Tomorrow, DE announces updates for the system with all-new stuff to unlock, so they will be  cutting Focus to the previous maximum required in each school but both refuses to refund your recently-spent Shards, while allowing others to utilise their remaining stocks of Shards. 
Sure, you can just go farm more Focus and Eidolons post-update, so it's fine your previous time and resource investment is stolen away, right? Even though the only difference between you starting from scratch and someone else maxing most of the new stuff immediately is the fact they didn't burn their shards the day before the announcement?

2: We currently get an abundance of Hounds from Sisters that we have little use for, once we have all the models and precepts. Now you can A) Claim the spare Hounds from your foundry into spare companion inventory space and sell them off for mere credits, or B) let them sit unclaimed in the foundry. A later update might give us the ability to, say, break unwanted Sister Hounds into their component parts. But you will not get compensated if you sold an unused Hound for credits before this update. Consequently, (A) Players will have had their gameplay investments largely wasted (with only credits to show) compared to (B) players who can now burn all their unclaimed Hounds into a fat stack of (even trade-able!) commodity. 

[F00K]

10 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I already said I don't care what people @' at me. 

This isn't an argument. 

This is how video games work. Either you want to play them or you don't. The point of a new update is to play it, not to be given it. 

This is why WoW made you fight for new levels, and didn't care how much xp you had past the level cap that didn't go anywhere. If you don't agree with that basic vision that all video game companies have for videogames, to ensure you actively play, that's okay.

You are entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to think videogame companies are generally wrong to use this psycholigical stragey. 

But this is like complaining, imo, about how the sky is blue.

This is how the industry works.

They are not going to give free levels to veterans who have overlap xp when level caps are increased, because they want you to spend time playing the game.

That is why I say all of you are missing the point, because you are looking at it from the player perspective, not from the business perspective of the CFO's telling the devs ultimately what to do, who want to make sure even the vets are actively playing and grinding the new update.

It's the same reason your resources don't mean garbage in a new open world and the stuff you need to build.

There is a lot of pressure to make sure you have something new to grind for.

I don't mean to be insulting, but that's why I say if people don't see this THEY are missing the point. They have to take into account the devs overall vision for the game, which is controlled by the office of the chief financial officer and realities thereof, and at the end of the day, pleasing the players only matters so much if the cannot meet that singular goal. 

Sorry, I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, just talking business realities. DE is a company that needs to make a profit, and their vision may not always coincide with ours. DE isn't just going to give us stuff, because it means less player engagement with a new update.

And the financial pressures of that are more powerful than a few vets complaining about so called "wasted" xp points. 

Says I dont care, replies with page long of I dont care what people @ at me lmfao... so does care lmfao

[NovusKnight]

Dear DE:

thank you.

thank you so much.

thank you for giving us a forum in which we can give feedback.

thank you for letting us voice our disapproval of a system we never wanted, needed, asked, or could consider beneficial to the game.

thank you so much for not only allowing us to voice or concern, but even allow us to voice it together in a dev workshop with over 27 pages of people vehemently, explicitly, insistently telling you how much of a terrible design choice and a toxic feature invigorations are.

I could not be happier for friends that have invested all their existing warframes into this system. it's so good to see their efforts are being respected!

thank you so much for being upbeat and chipper and positive and excited to announce their addition in the patch notes. I can't wait to let a weekly diceroll dictate wrether I am relevant or not more than the over 4000 hours and 6 years I've invested in the game, to say nothing of hundreds of forma, thousands of platinum spent on slots and catalysts, and countless trades to acquire my current power level, which is now surpassable by a MR8 with basic mods and a good diceroll. I'm so glad you've done all this, it makes me feel so immensely heard, communicated with, and respected for my time.

keep going like this, I'm sure nothing but success and the approval of this community awaits you.

[FartsWithEagles]

Sickening Pulse works very strangely with Slash procs: https://streamable.com/0mb83k

"The first time you cast, the slash proc will be duplicated and do the same damage as the first, but if you cast again it will deal 1 damage." 

Please fix, ty.
 

[Paranoicon]

I just noticed that my posts got swallowed by the Void yet again. Oopsie. I guess the Void must be hungry.

Anyways:

6 hours ago, quxier said:

Infussion should counts as well.

Personally, I don't think Ability Infusion or Resource Costs should count. At the end of the day, it's possible to remove infusions and to re-infuse again, same thing when it comes to feeding resources. It's not possible to subsume all the Warframes into the Helminth again.

1 hour ago, NovusKnight said:

[...]

A- and I don't want to understate this- men.

In any case, to reiterate my previous post, in bullet points, because I'm not typing that wall of text again:

• Not-Technically-A-Veteran believes that retroactive Helminth XP for subsumed warframes is the fair thing to do.
• By not giving off that XP, DE is setting a precedent by which they behave as if the time players spend in their game doesn't matter.
• This is, in fact, not good. One could even say it is bad. Because, unfortunately, time is money.
• The fact this is the first time it happens, as refunds were given for the Railjack Retrofit update, and Forma were refunded in this update due to nerfs, is both confusing, and concerning.