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Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)


[DE]CoreyOnline
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The new flow is much better. I can kill a lich faster than I get sick of it. The damage reflection is really brutal though. I notice it when I'm dead. Maybe experience will help, but the counterplay at this stage seems difficult to recognize. (Better then energy drain eximus though. The counterplay there is just to chug pizza)

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 11 heures, (NSW)Lorkhan a dit :

I'd like to report that the new ephemeras are hardly visible even with pure white on Switch. 

I changed my settings and all but even with everything maxed, they are still nearly invisible...

Maybe make them much more saturated?

Totally agree on this ! Please DE make the new Sisters ephemeras more visible  !!! (Not only on switch but on PC too)

Edited by OPsyLex
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Posted (edited)

This whole thing is terribly communicated and opaque. Most people dont read forums or wiki, how are they supposed to know about it and about the way to activate corpus liches? from the small general update message in a corner of the screen? It's the main content of this update but its hidden from players, why? DE is shooting itself in the foot again. Final showdown being in RJ is not communicated either.

Should've made a simple small quest with step by step process for the first lich - that would increase their popularity and player engagement tenfold.

 

Liches\murmurs now being quicker to farm is good (Ive seen people say its too fast now and they ran out of weapons to farm in 2 days). Consolidating nodes on a single planet to bring more players together is good, but the downside is you have smaller choice of missions.

Final showdown is underwhelming as everything dies quickly, but what else to expect with players being this OP, its impossible to have good gameplay. The longest fight was with a coward lich who had all defense abilities and constantly teleported between floors and hid in a puddle regenerating shields.

 

Grinding RJ for holokeys to buy weapons from Perrinn is bad. 

 

Edited by Monolake
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Just had the absolute most frustrating mission of my entire time playing warframe because a sister kept spawning specters that silenced me, killing them resulted in another being spawned almost instantly. I could not use any abilities, I would get basically instant killed (even with chromas armour active and health and shield pads at my feet) while having to deal with CC from tanky hounds who keep stealing my weapons. This was not fun at all. It's genuinely aggravated me to the point of shouting at my computer. The mission became literally impossible because I would basically get one shot killed even with multiple health and shield pads at my feet as a strength based chroma.

While I can avoid this by not using a warframe that has silence (as it was copying my frame), that in itself annoys me having to remove my subsumed abilities (And then re-subsume) or disregard an entire frame because one of my useful abilities is being used against me with no way to fight back against it. 

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Posting  this again here since there's no dedicated thread for jt.

 

So, can we address the horrible injustice that is the reward for reaching Legendary 1? 

That is basically the least rewarding MR since it doesn't even increase drain for your gear. (Which Kuva/Tenet weapons have shown wouldn't be balance breaking since we're still restricted by our number of slots.)

These rewards should be getting better not SO MUCH worse. And while for new players that Reward might be worth their weight in platinum, for people who have done enough to reach Legendary 1 that might as well be a standard Forma.

 

I LOVE this game, but PLEASE address this. The rewards are what make the grind feel more worthwhile. 

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12 hours ago, (XBOX)x Deathcraft x said:

When running granum void, I feel like this new wind up speed for glaives is getting me killed or hurting my dps on the 75 enemies I need.
With both wind up mods the charge speed feels slower. If anyone has any tips on increases the speed at whitch I can full charge throw xoris plz help

Just use Mesa or Revenenat ult to quickly kill everything solo with no effort. 

Swift Momentum aura for faster glaive heavy throw

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4 minutes ago, Monolake said:

Just use Mesa or Revenenat ult to quickly kill everything solo with no effort. 

Swift Momentum aura for faster glaive heavy throw

That requires having Mesa and I am closer to Mesa prime than I am the original.  I don't even have a stance for my glaive let alone swift momentum or a spare potato to make it worth equipping... 

This entire update almost felt like DE saying "get gud scrub" with this and the kdrive point requirements.  I don't think we should have to farm the correct frames just to get past the granum void bit, not to mention the rest.

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It is currently possible to own multiple of a given Sister or Lich ephemera. This clutters up the ephemera menu, so they should either be made sellable, or not able to be gotten when you already have one.

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15 minutes ago, Cypher77Burn said:

That requires having Mesa and I am closer to Mesa prime than I am the original.  I don't even have a stance for my glaive let alone swift momentum or a spare potato to make it worth equipping... 

This entire update almost felt like DE saying "get gud scrub" with this and the kdrive point requirements.  I don't think we should have to farm the correct frames just to get past the granum void bit, not to mention the rest.

It's content for "highlevel" - properly equipped players as liches are spongy and require proper builds on good weapons too.  And you are not required to have specific frames of course but they make farming Granum void really trivial and fast. I think Octavia works too.

Glaive stance drops pretty often from kuva jesters - just ask anyone who's been farming kuva syphons to give you one, the aura is from arbitrations.

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I have 2 complains:

1) If the golden hand spawns close to the exit/extraction, the candidate doesn't spawn.

2) The candidate spawned in the wall. Although I was able to stab it, the weapon model did not show above the candidate's head. In one run, I cast molecular fission before killing the candidate - the candidate blew up, ie, disappeared.

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9 minutes ago, Monolake said:

It's content for "highlevel" - properly equipped players as liches are spongy and require proper builds on good weapons too.  And you are not required to have specific frames of course but they make farming Granum void really trivial and fast. I think Octavia works too.

Glaive stance drops pretty often from kuva jesters - just ask anyone who's been farming kuva syphons to give you one, the aura is from arbitrations.

I had no problems with kuva liches but I am having huge problems spawning a sister... With the fact you need this or that frame for this or that element spawning should be easier, sure hard high level stuff after that.  Octavia I may be able to pull, but with the elements and using a granum coin every time it should be the lowest level granum coin or just done some other way.  I mean me running with my steel path setup really should be able to get 25 kills in the granum void.

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Posted (edited)

Now that I've had a little more time with the update I have some more feedback to add about the Lich/Sister system:

I don't like that Liches/Sisters don't occupy random planets anymore. I understand this was done in the interest of matchmaking, but it removes a unique part of the Lich experience by having them be on different planets, limits player choice in choosing what missions to play, and completely invalidates two of their quirks - namely "Hatred of Corpus" and "Hatred of Infested" since they'll never occupy those planets again. I don't believe that this change needed to happen, since it was always possible to join a Murmur Share on recruiting or with your friends since Murmurs were shared across planets.

Following that point, removing the Lich's/Sister's ability to occupy more than one planet makes no sense. I didn't think this would be a side effect of making their planets a set order, I thought it would work like before where uncleared missions would remain. The point of a Lich ranking up is supposed to be that their influence expands, it shouldn't just move them to a new planet. It feels less like they're getting stronger now and more like they're running away. This further severely limits the player's options in choosing what missions to play.

The only problem the old system had was that your Lich didn't spawn in a squad unless you were on a planet they had taken over, and this could easily be fixed by having Liches spawn in any Lich occupied mission, especially because you now need to go hunt them down anyway.

In regards to the new "final mission" being a Railjack mission, I actually don't mind this in concept, but in practice I think you made the Liches/Sisters too strong in it. I've defeated 14 Kuva Liches prior to this update and it feels like you suddenly gave them steroids just for the final mission. Not only is their damage reduction through the roof, but they're capable of one shotting you through your own damage resistances. I have an Ember with Umbral Vitality/Intensify, Adaptation, Max Immolation (50-90% DR), and Healing Flame, and this is perfectly capable of surviving even The Steel Path, but in the clip below you can watch me get two-shot by her Arca Plasmor (one gets rid if shield regen, one gets rid of all my HP) even though I moved out of the way, and my Kavat also gets one-shot (even though he has nearly double my HP):

https://streamable.com/k02q69

Take note that my Sister was only Rank 3. I found this incredibly unfun both to play against and to beat, because the only way I was able to defeat her was peeking through the door, throwing Sporelacer shots in, waiting for Toxin and Slash procs to build up, and repeating. I read in the patch notes that you balanced this around someone taking out their Necramech and one shotting the lich, but edge cases shouldn't be what you balance around. I have both Necramechs I could've used, however I wanted to try fighting one on one, but due to how it was balanced I wasn't able to do that without cheesing it.

Here are some suggestions for improving the fight:

  1. Drastically lower the damage resistance you gave to the Lich/Sisters, or at least make it function the way you stated where it resists more for higher damage weapons. In practice this doesn't seem to be the case and they just always have max damage resistance so you have to rely on something like building up constant DoTs.
  2. Lower the damage the Lich/Sister does. You should never be one shot by a boss through all your defenses. This doesn't make the fight engaging. As a trade-off, make the Lich/Sister more aggressive. I noticed that my Sister was perfectly content hiding behind this door the whole time, waiting for me to peek my head back in and get one shot if I wasn't fast enough to run back out.
  3. Make them use their abilities more instead of preferring just their gun. I didn't see my Sister use her abilities once. Again, the AI needs to be more aggressive and not in the sense of being an aimbot damage sponge.
  4. Let other people join you even if they don't have a Lich or Sister. There are a lot of weird contradictions in this update, like saying the Lich planet change was to make matchmaking easier, but then in their final mission you make matchmaking harder? I couldn't even help my friend kill their Lich while I had a Sister.


Also, let us pet the robot dogs please. We can pet MOAs, why not them?

Edited by Fireshock
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Hey DE it wouldn’t be bad to let us use scattered justice on kuva hek, why does the tenet flux rifle get to use flux overdrive but kuva hek can’t, seems unfair, I don’t know if this a bug but if it is please fix

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To whomever on DEsign team who thought giving kuliches and kolachiks growing damage resistance:

 

Here's a hydroelectric dam.

Here's a single plastic spoon.

Drill a hole straight through that dam using that spoon. 

Call me when you're done and tell me if you had fun

 

Because this is how fighting liches feels now. I only managed to kill Parvos' tulpa because she got stuck in level geometry where she couldn't shoot me but I could shoot her.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Cypher77Burn said:

I had no problems with kuva liches but I am having huge problems spawning a sister... With the fact you need this or that frame for this or that element spawning should be easier, sure hard high level stuff after that.  Octavia I may be able to pull, but with the elements and using a granum coin every time it should be the lowest level granum coin or just done some other way.  I mean me running with my steel path setup really should be able to get 25 kills in the granum void.

Do you detonate Xoris in the air with heavy attack? it doesn't even need any damage mods, it instakills them and getting only 25 points should be trivial (while if you run cheese frames you'd easily get 100 points and farm Protea and her weapons as well)

Edited by Monolake
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13 minutes ago, Monolake said:

Do you detonate Xoris in the air with heavy attack? it doesn't even need any damage mods, it instakills them and getting only 25 points should be trivial (while if you run cheese frames you'd easily get 100 points and farm Protea and her weapons as well)

I tried that and it did 300dam, yes fully charged.  Perhaps it was a one off glitch or something, and if you are right that would fix the problem I am having.  I will try it again and see if it works next time.  On a side note where did your picture go, it disappeared with the last reply.

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Ambassador isn't a Tenet weapon, but since it has a Tenet skin and this doesn't fit neatly into any other megathread I've got some feedback on it here: 

The short version is, the rifle is really cool but feels like a squirt gun even without the Soaktron skin. 

 

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  • Hounds Feedback: As Enemies & Companions
    As enemies -Meh. Give me my melee back and they'll be bearable.
    As Companions -Useless. Seeing as there is no current way to determine how they are even made to gain MR, doubly so. Also, It would 'seem' that the moduals they may or may not drop will require grinding out so many more unwanted liches that it may even exceed the amount of grind required when you first introduced liches
     
  • Sister Tenet Weapons
    So far, epic amount of grind for virtually no gain. Just like lich weapons.
     
  • Murmur Reduction
    Nice. However, all the added grind in the combat after the melee nerf counteracts any initial benefit.
  •  
  • New Requiem Mod Oull
  • Meh. Would have been nice under the lich system, but fairly useless now.
  •  
  • Parazon Rework
  • Useless. By the time I even see the marker through all the 'effects' that I can't turn off so I can see, the enemy are dead. 
  •  
  • New Kuva Lich Showdown Flow
  • Horrible. I have killed so many damn liches that now having to kill it at lvl 5, then go kill it again at level 5 is you just adding crap grind to make up for the grind you tried to suspend with the murmer reduction. 
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1 hour ago, Monolake said:

Do you detonate Xoris in the air with heavy attack? it doesn't even need any damage mods, it instakills them and getting only 25 points should be trivial (while if you run cheese frames you'd easily get 100 points and farm Protea and her weapons as well)

It worked this time... HOORAY! Thanks for making me go back and try again... It must have been a glitch the first time cause i did the exact same thing but this time it killed em instead of just making them angry. 

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Posted (edited)

Ambassador

  • The AOE splash is broken in some way, and doesn't seem to have a properly working hitbox when hitting enemies - it seems as though the enemy's body (and surfaces) blocks the AOE partially the way Tombfingers did on release, vastly decreasing its ability to actually reach its 6m radius.
  • The reload speed and extremely slow mode swap speed tied to it are just not fun. They make the weapon feel clunky. I'd like at least a reduction to 2.3-2.4 on the reload, and instant altfire swap.
  • For the grind and its MR, the damage on this feels underwhelming. Stat-wise, it's simply inferior to the Stahlta in most respects due to its very low base damage and crit chance. With just lower base damage and high crit, it would be competitive against Stahlta, but - especially for the alternate fire - not critting with its 600 base damage, as opposed to Stahlta's 1200 with high crit, is equivalent to a miss.
    • Update: It's also basically a worse Fulmin; the Fulmin at least has infinite ammo. The ammo economy on this is horrendous, with 44 ammo per underwhelming altfire shot and low damage automatic primary fire. It really needs to have better economy, like 22 ammo per altfire shot and more DPS overall.
    • I think it could just use more crit chance, especially on the alt fire - on that, it should be at least 100% or more modded.
  • Maybe a chance of forced electric procs regardless of equipped element (100% for alt fire, maybe 50% for the primary) or two damage types would make this more interesting?
  • Update: It really just needs too much QoL. It needs fire rate for the alt fire, it needs reload speed in general, and it needs Punch Through to be relevant in automatic mode (but that breaks the alt fire). It really could just use buffs to reload speed and innate Punch Through on the primary fire like Stahlta.
Edited by FelisImpurrator
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1 hour ago, Cypher77Burn said:

I tried that and it did 300dam, yes fully charged.  Perhaps it was a one off glitch or something, and if you are right that would fix the problem I am having.  I will try it again and see if it works next time.  On a side note where did your picture go, it disappeared with the last reply.

Ive just tried with this bare minimal build and it works fine, just hold till full charge and detonate in the air with heavy attack key near enemies, got 75 points solo and spawned corpus lich.

Spoiler

T5mjgN6.jpeg

The avatar picture must have changed cause forums logged me out.

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Alone, friendless, and not that bright...

Spoiler

sezlOJi.jpg

I'm more interested in the Kuva Grattler, so the Candidate getting KO'd in the extraction zone is not that much of an issue, but they really need to take a few pointers from the treasurers regarding pathfinding.

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10 minutes ago, 6079Smith said:

I'm more interested in the Kuva Grattler, so the Candidate getting KO'd in the extraction zone is not that much of an issue, but they really need to take a few pointers from the treasurers regarding pathfinding.

This seems to imply Treasurers won't run into the extraction zone, but I distinctly remember them doing exactly that. A lot.

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These new liches at higher ranks are ridiculously difficult to kill. My weapons shouldn't be capped at 40-80 damage a shot. This makes rank 5 liches, specifically radiated ones, unkillable and completely annoying and unfun.

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Spawning sisters needs changed/reworked. spawning a lich takes two seconds, whereas spawning a sister becomes a toxic race that we have to compete for, and doing it solo is even worse, as the void spectres have dmg reduction, and are difficult to kill without frames like saryn, mesa, ect (restricticting the elemental type) for most of the fanbase/players. this leads to public matches where people have to rush to the lich to kill it first so they get a chance to get one.

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