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Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)


[DE]CoreyOnline
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On 2021-07-06 at 9:00 AM, DebrisFlow said:

The fact that each lich weapon is a pure RNG occurrence after downing a larvlign/candidate has been overwhelmingly considered a bad design. It was tolerable when there were only 13 kuva weapons and we could just accept whatever we got, for MR and maxing purposes. It started to become much less tolerable when 3 new weapons were added, with the previous 13 already done and maxed, and the only choice left was to abort an unfortunately long series of Cassini capture runs. Now, one year and a half later, 3 new kuva weapons are released, and the frustration due to this design has just increased exponentially.

Sisters of Parvos doubled down with this bad design by significantly lenghtening the time to spawn a candidate and check for the weapon (enter a mission, enter a granum portal, complete rank one, exit, execute candidate, wait some minutes for a new zenith crown holder to spawn). I can again say that this may be tolerable for 8 weapons, but if in 9 months you come out with the nice idea of 3 other new Tenet weapons, and then 6 months after other 3 new weapons...i just find it reasonable to not engage with this contet at all until 2023, when likely all of them will be out....

We need a way to influence kuva/tenet weapon type occurence. Let it be a chance if you can't stand the concept of a deterministic outcome, it would still be better than no influence at all. As it is now, i repeat, it just suggests me not to engage in the Sisters for a looong time

I agree, I’ve done over 50 missions at this point trying to get the kuva zarr which is my last kuva weapon but just refuses to spawn. I recommend them adding something like a “requiem requisition” gear item similar to the requiem ultimatum that they added so we can choose what weapons they will give before mercy killing the larvlings. The drop chance as it is right now is straight unbearable at times. Gotten multiple appearances of every other weapon besides the kuva zarr….. I refuse to believe the drop chances are fair at this point.

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Posted (edited)

I'm into the Mega forums [now me girls and me boys] again with another status update on my Tenet Diplos. My original pair of pistols, spawned with an Equinox Prime, were blessed with a 26% Rad bonus (just 1 percentage over the bare minimum elemental bonus, because the range has to be between 25%-60%).

After thinking that a cold infused pair would be more beneficial and useful, I spent over three hours of my life doing 61 Granum void runs on a Pluto Capture Mission just for a Diplos Sister to spawn while I was rocking my rarely used & built Trinity Prime. And what percentage cold weapon did I get? Mucking 25%. After taking the new pair apart and infusing them on the pair with 5-forma, I only have 28.8% Cold damage, meaning that I have to get MORE if I want the impact based pistols with less base damage than a single Lato to be capable of higher level content. I did three Granum void runs on the same Pluto Capture mission, and got two Flux Rifles and an Arca Plasmor. And then the burnout that took root from the 61 runs that I felt less than 24 hours prior came back today and I just couldn't force myself to do more.

I'm done. I have reached my breaking point. I am not going to put myself through the torture of Sister Creation grinding anymore, and I've only created and killed two. All I'm saying is that until the system is similar to killing larvalings in terms of speed,

I would rather eat a tray of square ice cubes without chewing than go into the Granum Void again, even if it gave out platinum caches instead of credit ones.

Edited by (XBOX)HollowCube987
Spelling error. If I'm going to be angry, I want to be grammatically angry.
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Anyone else have their sister appear while farming murmurs, then say "thank you mr. parvos, I don't know what to say" and disappear again?

It wasn't a quirk - she doesn't have any.

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Just jumping in to say that the damage attenuation is maddeningly overtuned. Punishing players for progressing in the game is not the way. For a fight to be more enjoyable because it lasts longer, it also needs to be fun by itself first. An enemy shrugging off millions of damage and invalidating the time and effort players put into proper modding isn't fun. There needs to be a mechanic by which to do better in order for content to be fun and rewarding, and the emerging meta seems to be stripping apart your build and using weaker gear in order to keep your DPS under the threshold; the exact inverse of a fun mechanic.

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"wE puT 99.99% dAMagE rEDUctiOn oN LiCh aNd SiStErS BecAuSe vOIdRiG OP"

THEN  DON'T  FORCE  RAILJACK  ON  PLAYERS,  SIMPLE  AS  THAT

why in the hell do i need to kill them twice? honestly...

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I appreciate the reduction in the murmur grind, it's noticeable and very welcome. But I hate the damage reduction on the sisters: it's way too strong. Look, the one thing that motivates players is the feeling of getting better and stronger. To simply nullify all the work and thought that have gone into our loadouts by just going "Oh, and you deal a maximum of (SisterMaxHealth/5000) of damage, so you will need at least 5000 hits to kill one" is not fun.

"But we don't want the Sister to be one-shot by a tenno!"
Really? Remember, we already had a climactic fight at this point! We found out the three mystical ancient runes that she is vulnerable to, hunted her down, and stabbed her in the heart with the most terrifying blade known to man or machine! She was practically dead, and barely managed to limp away! She should not be at more than full power - the ultimate confrontation should be more of an execution than a fight between equals.

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3 hours ago, (XBOX)HollowCube987 said:

I'm into the Mega forums [now me girls and me boys] again with another status update on my Tenet Diplos. My original pair of pistols, spawned with an Equinox Prime, were blessed with a 26% Rad bonus (just 1 percentage over the bare minimum elemental bonus, because the range has to be between 25%-60%).

After thinking that a cold infused pair would be more beneficial and useful,  //  what percentage cold weapon did I get? Mucking 25%. After taking the new pair apart and infusing them on the pair with 5-forma, I only have 28.8% Cold damage, meaning that I have to get MORE if I want the impact based pistols with less base damage than a single Lato to be capable of higher level content.

I'm not saying that it's okay. I have had exactly that sort of terrible luck in my Lich and now Sister history.

But at the moment, the best approach to Valence Fusion is to put some LOG1.1 logic in a spreadsheet and keep dupes in the foundry unclaimed, while noting down their percentages, until your LOG1.1 of (60/max bonus) is exceeded by the number of dupes you've accumulated.

It's pretty dumb. Couldn't they at least track number of Fusions and say "fusing this is now worth highestBonus * 1.1fusionCount" instead? Still wouldn't entirely solve the problem, but at least it doesn't encourage letting things rot in the foundry as much.

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i have ran god knows how many void storms, yet to see a singular corrupted holokey.
HoloKeys are a myth! they probbaly have a 0.1% drop rate or sth

 

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On 2021-07-07 at 5:54 PM, Skye_Archer said:

Being dropped into a the sister railjack assassination mission with the host using a ~600 health railjack (yes six hundred not six thousand), meant as soon as people saw this, they quit the mission, not surprisingly this resulted in a high turn over of PUG players, it didn't take long for the mission to fail, simply due to the railjack not being able to hold its own...

Needless frustration! There needs to be some sort of railjack strength check for this particular mission; an under geared railjack is a no no! Given that there is a sizable population which hate railjack, this isn't going to change their opinion of the game mode.

There needs to be a host migration if a member with a stronger railjack joins the mission. What determines a stronger railjack, maybe there needs to be a tier gear check?! 2 as a bear minimum?

This is one reason I do the new Sister's of Parvos Assassination railjack missions solo, lol.

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So, how shall I give input to this. Hmmnn.

Older Sons 1 and 2, both MR 30, with God tiered toys and rivens, who haven't played in about 6 months.

"Pops, we would rather work overtime on a continuous basis then deal with the new update and the grind from hell". Huh, ok. Noted Sons.

Significant Other, who will literally play any type of female character from any type of game, and min/max builds/weps in a manner that would make an MIT prof green with envy.

"I love you hun, but I'd rather clean the house than deal with that mess". Um, yes Dear, sorry Dear ( and I proceed to go get chocolate and ice cream for apologies sake).

Youngest Son ( Uni Student. Also, for background reference, we live in the country).

"Pops, I'd rather have my tentacles wrapped in barb wire and let a rooster peck at them, then have to deal with WF as it is now". Ah. Eloquent Son, very eloquent.

As for myself, I'm not anywhere near to what the above family unit has in time, let alone gear. I now have to grind areas that I didn't want to in order to offset what I've lost do to ner..., Err, I mean, updates. Deal with a bunch of bugs, reforma previous builds do to "Changes", spend an inordinate amount of what little free time I have to attempt to research and read everything in the forums, just so I can have a little "fun" on my days off.

As of right now, I'm not really seeing what's "fun" about playing the game. Let alone trying to understand what DE's vision is with all of this.

/s.

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-07-07 at 2:32 AM, Soup2504 said:

so. the tenet flux rifle. listen, I don't mean to be rude....... but what in the world happened here?

i'm honestly baffled by this variant. For context, this is the weapon I was looking forward to the most. despite how not-great it was, the flux rifle has been my favorite weapon for a very very long time (even before the beam rework. when it was way worse). but i'm just completely confused by what the tenet version ended up being

it's not a beam weapon anymore

so we got increased crit chance (nice), 2% higher status chance (...), higher fire rate (ok), and increased accuracy (pretty much meaningless)

but then........ its base damage not including the element bonus is the same as the original flux rifle (so 25-60% higher. which... yeah fine. but I'd hoped it'd get a little bit of a boost to its base damage. not anything too crazy, but a little), its punch through is gone (...), its crit damage is lower (not by much but still ?), the battery recharge mechanic is gone (why??), and most importantly of all...

it's not a beam weapon anymore (WHY????? SERIOUSLY WHAT)

what happened here? i'm so disappointed....

So some suggestions: make it a beam weapon again (this is the bare minimum imo. it's not the flux rifle if it's not a beam weapon), give it its battery ammo mechanic back, give it its punch through back, give it a bigger boost to status chance (so instead of 26% status, i'm thinking 30%. or 40% if you want to be extra cool), and maybe give it a slight boost to its base damage. and once again, make it a beam weapon again...............

the crit damage being 1.8x can stay honestly. I don't mind that as much as everything else.

if nothing changes about it, then I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed that we get a flux rifle vandal soon (and I do mean soon), and it's. you know. not whatever the tenet flux rifle turned out to be....

and even if the tenet gets fixed, you should still release a flux vandal one day :)

EDIT AFTER FORMAING THE WEAPON:

so predictably, with the same build on both guns (split, serr, crit delay, vital sense, viral heat 60/60s, hunt mun) the tenet flux (at 26% heat) is slightly better than the original (shaving ~1-2 seconds off the ttk for heavy units. non-heavy doesn’t matter they all die if you sneeze on them with either version). But the fact that they stripped away everything that made the flux rifle the flux rifle, and gave it just a little tiny bit of a stat boost is SO disappointing.

idec they can keep the same stats and just make it a battery based beam weapon with innate punchthrough again and i’d be happy (though I would like a little buff. not a huge one! but another small push would be nice. Perhaps giving it 30% or 40% status chance 👀?)

please 😭

ok, quoting this and giving an update here so it's not just buried in earlier pages never to be seen again. but I changed some stuff around on the build and. it's a lot better now (though it still isn't a flux rifle)

So, I forgot flux overdrive existed, and it does work on the tenet flux for some strange reason (though it seems to be giving MUCH more status chance than it should be in the arsenal. HOWEVER, even if that is a bug that gets fixed, I have a pretty good feeling it’d still be a damn strong weapon even after that). but point is: i’ve changed the build up a bit, and now it does perform noticeably better than the original flux rifle (that said I have a really good riven for the normal flux so…. I am able to make the original work extremely well too. so I'll prob still use that unless the tenet flux gets changed back to a beam)

The new build is: split chamber, serration, critical delay, vital sense, viral dual stat mods, hunter munitions, and flux overdrive (it is a heat variant, so its getting heat damage too. just not in the mods. tripling down on slash procs with hunter munitions and flux overdrive is better than putting thermite rounds on it if it's already got its own heat damage)

so, turns out the tenet flux is a pretty damn good weapon, actually. I don’t think it really needs any buffs at all. esp with the new galvanized mods and arcanes and stuff (I don’t have those yet. they would obviously make it even stronger though)

That being said, I do still take issue with the weapon losing its entire identity. It just… isn’t the flux rifle anymore. and for that reason alone, I’ll likely still use the original flux over this one. but it IS a good weapon, and IF they do make it work like a proper beam again (and give it battery ammo. that would be nice too. I know the og flux didn’t have that for most of its life, but i’ve grown quite attached to it), then I think it would be my new favorite weapon. but as it stands, it’s just. not the flux rifle to me.

So please. Make it a beam weapon again. Give it innate punchthrough again, and if you're feeling really nice, give it the battery ammo mechanic back (this isn't NECESSARY imo, but it would be very nice) :)

Edited by Soup2504
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Posted (edited)

I've noticed a few weapons have energy effects that aren't affected by your chosen colors- namely Tenet Livia's blade and the sight that appears in Ambassador's alt fire mode. These should probably take on the weapon's energy color just for the sake of consistency. It's likely the other Tenet melee weapons have the same issue, but I haven't been able to check yet.

Edited by Ropcord
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OK just checking here... Am I supposed to be doing 400dam at most to my current sister, and that is using what she is supposedly weak to.  It is like trying to kill her with a toothpick.  Using the same setup, changing elements to suit, I could take down the old liches without much trouble... but now the sisters can two shot my best frame and I am doing nearly no damage to her, is it supposed to be like this? hell I haven't even made it to the railjack part cause she kills me so much I can't finish her off even though I know the full sequence of parazon crap to use.

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2 minutes ago, Cypher77Burn said:

OK just checking here... Am I supposed to be doing 400dam at most to my current sister, and that is using what she is supposedly weak to.  It is like trying to kill her with a toothpick.  Using the same setup, changing elements to suit, I could take down the old liches without much trouble... but now the sisters can two shot my best frame and I am doing nearly no damage to her, is it supposed to be like this? hell I haven't even made it to the railjack part cause she kills me so much I can't finish her off even though I know the full sequence of parazon crap to use.

Yes. Kuliches and Colachicks have hidden adaptation mod in them, for the purpose of them not being atomized by Arquebex sneezing in their general direction.

 

WORKING AS INTENDED.

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We need to be able to turn in unranked Hounds in Fortuna or have some other meaningful way to dispose of them. They are piling up quickly in my inventory and I am not going to rank up all of them just to be able to turn them in. The only reason I have to rank up existing hounds is if they have different cores so that they can be gilded and maxed out for their mastery. Another thing to take note of with the Hound pets is that once all 3 Hound cores have been maxed out and one have made their own perfect hound, there really isn't much reason to keep the previous 3 hounds around since the precept mods are interchangeable. This isn't a issue in itself but the part drops and the hound acquisition from the Sisters becomes kind of meaningless. Any player that strengthens their Tenet weapon's elemental percentage up to the desired level and farm the Sister ephemeras that they would want will by far have the perfect Hound before they even reach this goal. This will create an excessive supply of Hounds, Hound Weapons and Hound parts just sitting in our inventory that we can't get rid of unless we choose to sell them for some meager credits which isn't much of a reward in itself.

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On 2021-07-06 at 6:03 PM, XHADgaming said:

Having to go through what appears to be 6 cards each with 5 different requirements to complete just for the base blueprint of Yareli seems a little bit excessive. Adding in the component blueprints into each of the different cards might make this progression system a little bit easier to swallow rather than trying to complete 30 individual objectives for a singular blueprint.

The whole quest took me roughly 2hours. This is totally OK for me and it was fun, too.

-c0y

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Posted (edited)

2 of the weapons have innate heat, so when players use warframes that are not heat or secondary element as progenitor, they will have the element permanently mixed with heat.

Eg, a cold progenitor will produce a permanent blast weapon. Worse thing is they cannot use heat or cold as separate elements again. If players want to use heat then they are forced to use a heat, radiation, magnetic or impact progenitors.

So could you please replace heat with a secondary element? If it is not possible to program the innate heat to be separated from another primary element. Thanks.

Edited by kyori
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Posted (edited)

The changes to murmur gain, Oull mod and Ultimatum are great, pure and simple. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about that.

I haven't acquired all of Tenet weapons yet (mising all melee and Detron), but those that I have feel really nice, especially Flux Rifle and Arca Plasmor. The only exception is Diplos with its weird lock-on on aim and changes to burst. Or maybe I'm just dumb and cannot use it properly, but still, there's something clunky about that weapon. Also, even though 5 forma requirement to get to the max rank is nothing new and nothing unexpected, I have to say I never liked this system and nothing's changed in that matter.

Sisters of Parvos themselves are fine, I guess. Visually, they don't look particurarly interesting. Their characters as archetypes (let's call it that) are all right, but I absolutely despise the fact that each and every one of them makes cringy jokes practically all the time. Warframe never striked me as a comedy. Sure, there are some reliefs like Ordis or Helminth playing with your kavat, but the story, setting, and lore in general are more or less serious. Parvos with his cold stoicism and Vala with her anger fit the tone of the game, their Sisters acting like characters from a Marvel movie do not. Male kuva liches were already bad enough but we could at least somewhat avoid them. Sister of Parvos are all like that. Quirks system became completely pointless, as every single Sister is as quirky as a usual reddit post tries to be. I'm aware that the most players probably do not share my opinion on that matter but well, it's just how I feel.

And the last thing, a little bit off-topic: the icon for 1st legendary rank is disappointing. I may be vain, but I liked having a golden symbol as a final reward for grind and dedication. Now I'm back to ugly bronze and it'll probably get a year or more to change that. Legendary rank icons should all be platinum colored (or maybe purple like rivens) and evolve (not change color) with each rank. And seeing how, in all probability, it's going to be one rank per year at most, it shouldn't be that much of a problem.

Edited by -Loko-
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Posted (edited)

I think we should take a statistical breakdown of Kuva/Tenet Weapon Securing time - the amount of effort isolated to any point of entry that is, probabilistically, required for certain levels of expectation of seeing specific desired weapons.

We'll seek chances of 50% (break-even), 90%, 95% and 99% as our four breakpoints of interest for certainty of at-least-one drop (cumulative probability from commencement of attempts) and infer how many missions and how much time running said missions will require. I don't think I need to state how 1% of players engaging with the new content is a very real quantity, not just an insignificant theoretical.

KUVA WEAPONS
We now have 19 Kuva weapons in the pool (3 new). These can be sought on Capture missions with times of <2 minutes per run (using 1:30 for analysis just so sweaty lads don't take exception to two whole minutes of cap).

Any of 3 new weapons (3/19): 

  1. Break-Even chance: 4.033 missions (~6 minutes)
  2. 90% chance: 13.399 missions (~20 min 6 sec)
  3. 95% chance: 17.432 missions (~26 min 9 sec)
  4. 99% chance: 26.798 missions (~40 min 12 sec)

This is already getting quite large in the 'unlucky' bucket. ~27 runs for a reasonable certainty is quite repetitive already.

Singular weapon from pool (1/19): 

  1. Break-Even chance: 12.820 missions (~19 min 15 sec)
  2. 90% chance: 42.587 missions (~63 min 53 sec)
  3. 95% chance: 55.408 missions (~83 min 7 sec)
  4. 99% chance: 85.175 missions! (~127 min 45 sec!)

Two hours chaining the same capture mission for a certainty of seeing a single specific Kuva weapon now. You can kill a Sister faster than getting a specific weapon on your Lich. Let that sink in.

TENET WEAPONS
Only counting the Sister candidates, of course, we have 8 Tenet weapons in the pool (all new). These are sought by completing a Granum Void, inflating an otherwise-Capture mission time to roughly 5 minutes.

Since they're all new, I won't break it down twice (1=1 for new items!) and just cut straight to the single specific weapon.

Singular weapon from pool (1/8):

  1. Break-Even chance: 5.141 missions (~26 minutes)
  2. 90% chance: 17.244 missions (~86 min 13 sec)
  3. 95% chance: 22.435 missions (~112 min 10 sec)
  4. 99% chance: 34.488 missions (~172 min 26 sec!)

Almost three hours for certainty on the poor luck bucket, incredibly.

Once again, you can spend more time hunting the right weapon than fighting your Adversaries.

Edited by TheLexiConArtist
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On 2021-07-08 at 6:27 AM, NecroPed said:

Just had the absolute most frustrating mission of my entire time playing warframe because a sister kept spawning specters that silenced me, (...)

Isn't it possible to bring Warframes with status immunity? Like Inaros with Augment, Nezha or Oberon?
Additionally we just received as Lvl11 from Helminth system the 'status immunity' infusion.
Its worth a try

-c0y

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  Pleaseeeeee increase the lich's rage meter, or make them some how just as fast as farming Sisters, I've been running after some kuva guns I've been putting off and every time now it's A SLOG to actually test out all requiems so I can figure out the order, and on top of that, if I've got the wrong order, I have to build up the rage meter AGAIN, EVERYTIME. Increasing the rage meter gain would not only make murmurs faster by giving you the lich more of often but it'd also make it considerably less of a headache when you get it wrong. 

 Maybe it has to do with the fact you get so little murmurs from the thralls and how little THRALLS you get in a mission compared to how much like 4 Hounds will give you. I guess in general I wished kuva liches were faster to grind after having experienced the SISTERS grind.

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3 hours ago, Kaokasalis said:

We need to be able to turn in unranked Hounds in Fortuna or have some other meaningful way to dispose of them. They are piling up quickly in my inventory and I am not going to rank up all of them just to be able to turn them in. The only reason I have to rank up existing hounds is if they have different cores so that they can be gilded and maxed out for their mastery. Another thing to take note of with the Hound pets is that once all 3 Hound cores have been maxed out and one have made their own perfect hound, there really isn't much reason to keep the previous 3 hounds around since the precept mods are interchangeable. This isn't a issue in itself but the part drops and the hound acquisition from the Sisters becomes kind of meaningless. Any player that strengthens their Tenet weapon's elemental percentage up to the desired level and farm the Sister ephemeras that they would want will by far have the perfect Hound before they even reach this goal. This will create an excessive supply of Hounds, Hound Weapons and Hound parts just sitting in our inventory that we can't get rid of unless we choose to sell them for some meager credits which isn't much of a reward in itself.

Agreed.

 

What if we could scrap them for Holokeys, or for a new resource that we can use to target a specific weapon type for a sister/lich to spawn?

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TYPE: In-Game
DESCRIPTION: Modding the Kuva Hek, Scattered Justice is not on the list of available mods when it should be.
REPRODUCTION: Reproduction is easy, go try to mod it yourself.
EXPECTED RESULT: I would expect the syndicate mod to work with a non-syndicate weapon variant, such as the Supra, Dual Cleavers and Flux Rifle mods do.
OBSERVED RESULT: What is happening is that the mod is for some reason not available and it should be.
REPRODUCTION RATE: It is happening 100% of the time. 

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