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Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)


[DE]CoreyOnline
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why can only one of us get the sister when trying to do a level 50 granum void. because doing solo is next to impossible?Also it seems kinda unfair for the other 3 people who help out in general? as well half the time the sisters bug out and the prompt to use the parazon runes bug out and they escape. other then that the update is fun!

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I just had the worst experience ever fighting SoP (corpus lich). I really dont want to do it again.

She dealt little damage to me (aka basically she didnt hit back), She was SUPER bullet sponge, SHE teleported to a different room every 5 Seconds, and She hid in a puddle to rebuild her shields every 10seconds.

I know you guys wanted to make liches a fight but i think you tackled this the wrong way entirely. What makes an enemy boring and too easy to fight, is not the fact that you can 1 shot it

Its fact that it did nothing to you. The enemy never did anything to entertain. This is what makes an enemy boring. Making an enemy require 1,000,000 more shots to take down alone does not fix the issue that the enemy is still not doing anything to entertainAll you will have basically done is put 1,000,000 1 shottable enemies, into 1 enemy, so that we can shoot it 1mill times instead of 1mill different enemies. Doesnt really improve anything you know?

 

What the SoP enemies does do besides be bullet sponge is hit you with a near hitscan weapon. Hitting a player with a hitscan isnt adding much entertainment because if you ask yourself the question of what the player can do with about it, you will end up with the answer that "they can do nothing but take damage". Placing much emphasis on "nothing" here because people seek entertainment to avoid doing nothing. 

 

Modding is entertainment, getting a new warframe is entertainment, helmith system (my hat is off to you on that one as id say that is a really unique and not too overpowered of adding additional) entertainment. Love all of it

But these enemy designs have been falling behind. Bullet sponge or Damage mitigation gets leaned on wayyyy too heavily that it seems to be forgotten that you are supposed to be giving the players something to do. We need things to do whether that be dodging attacks, using special moves, aiming at a multitude of different weakpoints, etc

Entertainment...

Thats all i wanted to say, much love and best of wishes

Edited by (PSN)Frost_Nephilim
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As a preface, I'm gonna mention that I'm a deaf player and I rely heavily on visual cues in-game.

I think it's nice that the mercy-kill indicator (the brief red flash) is subtle, and it makes sense to be subtle in that kind of scenario. However, I don't really like how similar it is to demolysts' indicator and that is already difficult to keep an eye out for. Now that there are mercy-kill indicators flashing near constantly when I'm running disruption and it's frustrating to look one place, thinking a demolyst is coming, only to have it come up behind you in no time and destroy the conduit.

Personally, I'd rather changes be made to the demolysts' indicator. It's way too tiny and subtle for something that's supposed to have a sense of urgency, and if there are tons of particles and enemies swarming the screen, it's really overwhelming to try and pay attention for something really small. I don't know if making the arrow just a little bit larger would be feasible, but what we have now isn't visually accessible at all.

And that's all I've really got to say about that.

EDIT: Actually, it would be wonderful to get something more like the void sink indicator. Maybe not as large, but something unmistakable.

Edited by RNGauss
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Currently the Tenet Diplos' aim down sights gimmick, while it functions like Sepulcrum alt fire, makes aiming down sights rather awkward to use and without seperate stats like when aiming down sights with Kuva Quartakk or Quatz it ends up feeling a bit weak. Please change the Tenet Diplos' auto targeting gimmick by either making it an alt fire or classifying it as a different firing mode. Giving it higher damage and critical stats for it's slower fire rate and travel time would help set the Diplos apart from other Akimbo pistols and help it's gimmick be more usable.

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The new Sister ephemeras cannot be equipped on companions as advertised in devstreams and the update splash pages, only the operator and the warframe.

Please update this, or remove the (false) advertising.

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14 hours ago, Ishiyyin said:

Fully built hounds is pretty cool. Until you run out of inventory space and have either sell/consign another companion, buy more slots, or just let it rot in the foundry. I did consider exchanging one of my existing hounds that I haven't touched yet for SU standing until I saw it needed to be gilded (I assume. All my moas and my one leveled hound are gilded and I've never had a need to use that option until now). However, having to constantly level new hounds just exchange them for standing isn't the ideal use of play time.

 

 

Not only this, but these new hounds are extremely squishy with certain frames.  I litterally have less then 300 health on the Baruuk I am running, and [Link Health] does more on the companion than [Enhanced Vitality]... Same for [Link Armor] mod and also [Link Shield].  They are always 99%+ better (Except for, of course, link shield mods on Nidus and Inaros) than the other 3 mods.   I think [Enhanced Vitality], [Calculated Redirection], and [Metal Fiber] companion mods need a re-think and a buff because they are useless after you get the LINK mods for every build.
 
I'm 2 formas deep on one of these dogs with all of the link mods on and they WON'T stop dying while farming liches/sisters.. I feel like half the time I am ressing the robot dog and not even doing the mission.  If you could program it in where Robo hounds/kavats/animals get a better buff that would be great.  We all know Sentinels in general do not need it specifically because they are with us when we are dodging, as pets away from our Warframe attract more attention and get downed easier.

 

Edited by (PSN)Poestis
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2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

It doesn't work on the Vaykor Hek.  I can't say I'm surprised that it doesn't work on the Kuva Hek either.

It doesn't work for the Vaykor because it is a syndicate weapon with the justice effect already added. The effect can't stack on weapons that already have it.

That mod not working on the kuva hek is a stealth nerf or oversight as there are no established rules that it shouldn't. 

Nerfing it out of the gate goes counter to their bringing guns up to melee justification of previous nerfs. 

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Building Hound parts in the foundry takes way too long. Compare the hound part 24h build time to other modular parts which take 1h. It seems like a mistake or a placeholder timer that never got looked at.

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11 minutes ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

It doesn't work for the Vaykor because it is a syndicate weapon with the justice effect already added. The effect can't stack on weapons that already have it.

That mod not working on the kuva hek is a stealth nerf or oversight as there are no established rules that it shouldn't. 

Nerfing it out of the gate goes counter to their bringing guns up to melee justification of previous nerfs. 

Sure, but were you honestly surprised that it didn't work?

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I will parrot the concerns over the new added "difficulty" in lich/sister hunting. 

I didn't notice the DR as it was a level 1 sister.  However, the abilities of the dogs probably should be looked at.  My sister's dog is disarming instantaneously on sight/within range. 

The established enemy with disarming ability has a telegraphed action and wind up. This makes it possible to defend against or account for.

With the hound I get close enough and whoops weapon gone.   It doesn't seem to happen more than once per spawn.  But many of the Sisters, their abilities, and their hounds seem a little too cheesy. For higher level players this is an inconvenience.  Yet, I suspect players who are lower MR (5-10) will find this all but impossible without a squad carry.  

 

Also if you can add damage reduction of this level to the game. I assume some sort of stat squish proper balance of player, enemies, and weapons is entirely possible.

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Probably plenty of feedback on the Diplos already but I'm gonna throw in my own two cents. Guns sound nice and punchy, normal fire is quite nice, but I have no idea what to do with the aimed homing fire. I appreciate that aiming doesn't immediately lock you out of regular automatic fire, but if you accidentally hover over an enemy while not firing you basically cause your guns to jam due to the 1-second delay after firing homing shots. On top of that, the target acquisition requiring you to keep them within vision-ish seems to have the side effect of causing bullets to forget their target mid-flight if you turn the camera away. And of course acquiring targets requires you to look around anyway, which means that sometimes you lose targets by trying to tag other targets.


Even when the alt-fire functions properly its barely useful, because youre tagging 8 targets with two bullets each on a machine pistol that doesn't have high damage per shot. And then have to wait before firing again, and that requires you to tag all those targets again. It just feels clumsy in the end, the combat doesn't flow nicely and you don't really get much done compared to just shooting enemies normally.

Could the Diplos' alt-fire be changed instead to be able to continuously fire at all the marked targets, perhaps with a reduction in marks from 8 to 4? This allows you to mark and then mow those enemies down, even while moving around. You may want to consider making the target acquisition a bit more lenient in terms of having sight on the enemies to allow for more free movement, though I don't think this is too necessary. Perhaps just increase that radius a bit so that you end up with less cases of enemies getting untagged randomly mid-firing.

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2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

It doesn't work on the Vaykor Hek.  I can't say I'm surprised that it doesn't work on the Kuva Hek either.

Of course it doesn't work on the Vaykor Hek, the Vaykor Hek has it built in, that's how it's supposed to work. It not working on the Kuva Hek is either a bug/oversight, or an intentional effect they just didn't bother to tell us about

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18 minutes ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

But many of the Sisters, their abilities, and their hounds seem a little too cheesy. For higher level players this is an inconvenience.  Yet, I suspect players who are lower MR (5-10) will find this all but impossible without a squad carry.

That's how the Corpus get away with it and get rich.  Cheap trick cheap shots.  Counter the knockdowns with [Sure Footed] or the Primed variant if you've logged on enough to get it.  I have no problem with the new Sisters of Parvos (liches).  All this feedback is so negative about the difficulty but it just takes a little strategy to beat a Corpus Sister and her companion.  Lose a weapon, use your melee, that's what it's there for and hope you weren't in the first forma of the melee because this is pretty much endgame (besides Fasionframe and Dojo decorating).  I wouldn't expect less then MR10 to take this on, do you remember when sorties were hard and now they are a cakewalk.  It's the same thing with these new Sisters of Parvos.  I do agree that there is some adjustments needed but not a whole rework.  If somebody is getting stun locked for a whole minute (and dies because of it) then that's the kind of issue that I would think needs to be worked on for those not running some sort of knockdown recovery mod.

 

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26 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Sure, but were you honestly surprised that it didn't work?

Me? Yes.

Fomorian Accelerant works just fine on both normal and kuva Drakgoons.

Entropy Burst works just fine on both normal and vandal Supras.

Nightwatch Napalm goes on normal and kuva Ogrises.

Kinetic Ricochet works just fine on both normal and prisma Tetras. I've no idea whether it can go on kuva Tetras, because I have no intention of touching corpus liches - but I'd say yes.

Justice Blades goes on both normal and prisma Dual Cleavers.

So why is this case unique?

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1 minute ago, (PSN)Poestis said:

That's how the Corpus get away with it and get rich.  Cheap trick cheap shots.  Counter the knockdowns with [Sure Footed] or the Primed variant if you've logged on enough to get it.  I have no problem with the new Sisters of Parvos (liches).  All this feedback is so negative about the difficulty but it just takes a little strategy to beat a Corpus Sister and her companion.  Lose a weapon, use your melee, that's what it's there for and hope you weren't in the first forma of the melee because this is pretty much endgame (besides Fasionframe and Dojo decorating).  I wouldn't expect less then MR10 to take this on, do you remember when sorties were hard and now they are a cakewalk.  It's the same thing with these new Sisters of Parvos.  I do agree that there is some adjustments needed but not a whole rework.  If somebody is getting stun locked for a whole minute (and dies because of it) then that's the kind of issue that I would think needs to be worked on for those not running some sort of knockdown recovery mod.

 

I think the issue is that it is artificial difficulty. As in it is over the top for the sake of appearing hard when in reality it's not hard at all.  I wasn't struggling with my sister but I found the mechanics a little too much for what should seem engaging and challenging.  Instead of seeing the hound and thinking "alright he's going to try and take my weapon I need to watch out."  The hound would come into view, I would see the yellow waypoint indicating he had my gun. Then I would go "🙄 again" walk over pick it up and shoot him in the face until I could mercy. Most of my ease though is because I use Nezha for my lich hunting over a pure DPS frame. So many of the cheaper mechanics were stopped short of being able to one shot me or stagger me.

It just didn't feel as fun as I was having with my liches before the update. 

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6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

I think the issue is that it is artificial difficulty. As in it is over the top for the sake of appearing hard when in reality it's not hard at all.  I wasn't struggling with my sister but I found the mechanics a little too much for what should seem engaging and challenging.  Instead of seeing the hound and thinking "alright he's going to try and take my weapon I need to watch out."  The hound would come into view, I would see the yellow waypoint indicating he had my gun. Then I would go "🙄 again" walk over pick it up and shoot him in the face until I could mercy. Most of my ease though is because I use Nezha for my lich hunting over a pure DPS frame. So many of the cheaper mechanics were stopped short of being able to one shot me or stagger me.

It just didn't feel as fun as I was having with my liches before the update. 

If I am shooting, usually I am aim gliding.. I've adjusted my aiming sensativity controls perfectly (ps4 joystick) in the options menu to where I can aim and get head shots constantly.  I don't know if this will help you but stay in the air, they may not be able to steal your gun.. I really have not had an issue losing my gun at all.  I am a very fast player though.  During the Dog Days event, aimgliding was another way to avoid dying or them even hitting you, while you aimglide shot heads.. I would go 40 to 50 kills sometimes.  30 on bad days.  If you are more of a shooter I would recommend starting to get used to this sort of method, if you are shooting while standing you are going to get your weapon stolen.

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Please make it so that the lich/sister cannot get anywhere near the extraction point. I just fought one that was camping inside the extraction point on jupiter tileset and I couldn't parazon stab her without extracting because i was playing solo.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)Poestis said:

If I am shooting, usually I am aim gliding.. I've adjusted my aiming sensativity controls perfectly (ps4 joystick) in the options menu to where I can aim and get head shots constantly.  I don't know if this will help you but stay in the air, they may not be able to steal your gun.. I really have not had an issue losing my gun at all.  I am a very fast player though.  During the Dog Days event, aimgliding was another way to avoid dying or them even hitting you, while you aimglide shot heads.. I would go 40 to 50 kills sometimes.  30 on bad days.  If you are more of a shooter I would recommend starting to get used to this sort of method, if you are shooting while standing you are going to get your weapon stolen.

 

My issue isn't with the disarm itself. It's how it's been implemented. If they want the sisters to one shot and CC Tenno like crazy.  Have there be sounds, wind ups, or something in the way of a warning.  So that way I can feel smart if I am able to react in time instead of having to change my loadout and playstyle just to circumvent it. 

I'm also noticing finally the out of control particle effects. There's too much flashing and splashing on the screen to be able to even see if there was supposed to be some telegraphing.  I'm literally using the waypoint markers at melee range to locate the hound at times. 

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First off I would like to say that not only do I play but so does my wife and kids. We have greatly enjoyed this game and have been happy to support this company and game.

So these are all of our thoughts on the update and this includes both sides of our review (Pro & Con).

 

1) As for Sister of Parvos: We are enjoying the corpus side of things and hunting the sisters. The weapons look amazing but we have yet to test them all out. Some of the things the sisters say while hunting or fighting them is really hilarious and it adds some flavor to the game. But there are a few things that really feel empty when going through the hunts.

A) Litches had a payout of Kuva and that made it a little worth while to go after them. Sisters? Nothing at all and it just seems like a huge time sink with little payout during the hunts.

B) The story seems a bit dry. Or maybe not well explained.

2) The Hounds: Well my wife loves the idea of building her own and also loves the fact that she received a fully built one after each sister completion. This allowed her to test and see if she really wanted to put the time into farming the parts she wants. Lets just say that I will be dragged on some hunting parties often.

3) Yareli: Well I am not a fan of the cutesy thing, my kids are. But as a frame she seems weaker then we thought she would be. And this leads me to the missions leading up to her blueprint.

The one thing I never liked about the game was the K-Drive (But was thrilled that I was not forced to take part in the disaster known as K-Drive)....... Now to get a stupid blueprint of Yareli I have to play 6 cards through and do a rediculous amount of K-Drive tricks, races, kills, and other moronic things. This is simply just poor design. If I wanted any boards I would buy Tony Hawks games. I don't buy Tony Hawks games............ I am fine with you putting something in about the K-Drive due to the fact it was time and money that went into the design. But my issue is that the hilariously rediculous amount of stupid tricks and points needed is simply cruel and unusual punishment.

Over all I am not disappointed with the Sisters of Parvos but am not at all happy with the quests that are now part of the story line arch.

Edited by AnubisDRH
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11 minutes ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

 

My issue isn't with the disarm itself. It's how it's been implemented. If they want the sisters to one shot and CC Tenno like crazy.  Have there be sounds, wind ups, or something in the way of a warning.  So that way I can feel smart if I am able to react in time instead of having to change my loadout and playstyle just to circumvent it. 

I'm also noticing finally the out of control particle effects. There's too much flashing and splashing on the screen to be able to even see if there was supposed to be some telegraphing.  I'm literally using the waypoint markers at melee range to locate the hound at times. 

I turned most of the effects off (Start button > Options > Display > many of those turned off), but I agree with you on this point.  The radial stomps the dogs do have too much visual effects, it does cause a sort of visual impairment.  I think it's on purpose.

I have Only 3 things turned on in the display menu:  Ambient Occlusion, Depth of Feild, and Color Correction.  Low GPU particles.  That field is STILL a visual brightness issue.

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9 minutes ago, AnubisDRH said:

The one thing I never liked about the game was the K-Drive (But was thrilled that I was not forced to take part in the disaster known as K-Drive)....... Now to get a stupid blueprint of Yareli I have to play 6 cards through and do a rediculous amount of K-Drive tricks, races, kills, and other moronic things. This is simply just poor design. If I wanted any boards I would buy Tony Hawks games. I don't buy Tony Hawks games............ I am fine with you putting something in about the K-Drive due to the fact it was time and money that went into the design. But my issue is that the hilariously rediculous amount of stupid tricks and points needed is simply cruel and unusual punishment.

I think if they would have introduced this when K-Drives launched it would have been a great tutorial of how tricks worked.  Sorry you didn't like it.  For the 3600 race points just do the longer races if you had an issue with that.

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7 minutes ago, (PSN)Poestis said:

I turned most of the effects off (Start button > Options > Display > many of those turned off), but I agree with you on this point.  The radial stomps the dogs do have too much visual effects, it does cause a sort of visual impairment.  I think it's on purpose.

I have Only 3 things turned on in the display menu:  Ambient Occlusion, Depth of Feild, and Color Correction.  Low GPU particles.  That field is STILL a visual brightness issue.

I am definitely going to have to look at those settings when I get back on.

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