Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[Sotales]

I don't know if it's just me, but the Sisters seem to be using all voice lines available during missions. May be a side effect of having everyone's Sisters spawning in mission. But while fighting my Sister, the sound and character of her voice lines changes.

[addamrobin2]

6 hours ago, addamrobin2 said:

nothing like spending 6 hours trying to find a kuva zarr that doesn't exist

very nice to know that your progress is slot machine-based

12 hours later, finally got a kuva zarr

25% toxin

mucking 25%

glad that's the reward i get for all of that

[Danielw8]

I killed 130 liches before this update, i have every weapon at 60, every ephemera, and some of them with different bonification

After this, i can say sisters liches are good very good, i like the flow and the progression, you get a low bonification weapon, but runs are fasters, and the sister die in 1 hour aprox.  Players can grind between and before get every weapon to 60% ephemeras, i general i like it.

Kuva liches, are slower, and here is the main problem with this. Kuva lich have 19 weapons, 3 are new, most of us already have those 19 weapons, and if you want grind those 3 new weapons (zar, grattler and hek) the grind is massive, and its not only massive the bonification is very low

After 1 hour doing capture cassini, finally got kuva hek, the first new kuva weapon i got (i was going to pick any of the others new weapons anyways) and what a surprise have 25% toxin

Being clear and resuming: Doing 1 hour to get a new kuva weapon, and that weapon have 25% bonification, how many times i need repeat this process to reach 60%?, With sisters i feel i have progression, with kuva lich its pure RNG (today July of 2021 was not the same when the system was new), and also kuva lich is slower compared to sisters probly 50% slower (im sure about this one)

Solution?: I dont know honestly, a sort of system where if you have only a primary weapon equipped, you get only primary weapons? im not sure, because corpus is new, nobody have the weapons, so any weapon you get is welcome, with kuva lich is not the same, you are aiming for only 3 weapons, and those 3 weapons with 60% to complete the collection.

I think you need adress people are really tired of RNG stuff, you can make the same content, playing similar ammount of hours but doing progression, And i think sisters does a really good work with this. The game needs more progression content, and less pure RNG. this is how you make feel the players the time spended in the game is worth, even if that progression is slow (like farming 10 of the same weapon to reach 60%)

We are literally more time looking for Kuva Hek (as axample) vs actually killing liches, and im not even counting if you want different bonification (i have 3  60%kohms, magnetic, cold and heat)

And Sisters lich will have the same problem, if you add 10 more corpus weapons in the next months, and probly worse because Capture missions vs capture+granum takes like x3 time each run.

Thanks

 

[FrostDragoon]

On 2021-07-06 at 6:42 AM, [DE]CoreyOnline said:

• Hounds Feedback: As Enemies & Companions
• Sister Tenet Weapons
• Murmur Reduction
• New Requiem Mod Oull
• Parazon Rework
• New Kuva Lich Showdown Flow

I don't have any real issue with hounds currently. Their shields are pretty beefy, though. I'm not sure if this is a problem or that we haven't properly adapted to it yet. I think it might be an issue for lower MR players without strong meta weapons and mods, but for endgame players it feels okay I think.

 

Have only tried the Tenet Spirex and am fairly disappointed. At first I thought it would be right up my alley as I'm a huge fan of the Lex Prime and have been since this game came out. The low accuracy of the Spirex makes it unsuitable to fill the role of a precision headshot weapon that its profile suggests it should be. Either give it some extra functionality or give it 90+ accuracy. It was not worth the forma at this point and I recommend that nobody take this weapon unless they have all the other lich weapons finished and just need some MR fodder.

 

Murmer reduction isn't really noticeable. Bad RNG still ruins the farms, as does other players habits and misconceptions if you try to do them in public matches. I think the new planet tier system was a fantastic change, but its undermined by the way the murmers actually work.

 

New Oull Mod is awesome on paper, but disappointing that you can't run 3 of them to shortcut a lich. This seems like a missed opportunity to increase their value and usage from a market perspective. The lich process is already so grindy that having a way to shortcut it for a price seemed like a natural fit. As it is, they are just useful once in a great while if you run out of a particular word mod and are too cheap/lazy to buy another right away. Great concept, poorly executed.

 

Parazon rework - no opinion as I haven't noticed/felt a difference.

 

Showdown Flow - This is awful. Absolutely the worst change to the lich system was trying to force Railjack into it. These modes should be distinctly separate content. I know people want to find ways to get people to play Railjack more--and I love Railjack, so don't get me wrong here--but it is not appropriate, not rewarding, and doesn't serve the presupposed purpose of putting them here (to get people to play Railjack more). If you want people to play Railjack, make it more rewarding and add more interesting stuff to do there. Trying to clumsily force feed it onto people who don't want to do it while they try to engage in content they actually want to play only serves to make them resentful of both systems.

In the same way, shoving Sisters behind Granum Void is a terrible mistake and Sisters should operate the same way Kuva Liches do in terms of generating new liches. Keep G-Void as its own thing. Nobody wants to run it and forcing us to--again--just makes people resentful of both systems.

 

 

[_.-Toscany-._]

Untradeable Liches & Specters (Sisters): I've just found out the hardway that a converted lich obtained from a trade cannot be traded again. Is this the same mechanic for specters (sisters)? 

Could we pls get a game mechanic that would allow for such lich/specter to become tradeable again, OR once the lich/specter has been traded, it is stripped of it's ephemera - thus solving the infinite ephemera problem with continuous trades.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Since the damage reduction on sisters is i assume cause necramechs like void rig why not have all liches have an emp ability that disables mech use instead of crazy high DR? It can be easily explained with liches/sisters saying you're going to fight on their terms.

Cause it feels a little too necessary to bring a nyx or a rhino to face off against lv 4-5 sister 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Love the unique requim failure animations for sisters and hope that we can get them for the kuva liches as well, since flowing to getting the right requiems to a fail guess always looked akward after the kill animation was removed for liches. And for final showdown with the lich can they should have some kuva guard backup or something 

[samuraihinjaku]

After update 30.5, disconnection is obviously more frequent than before. And each time I do the Mercy attack to a Sister, this will definitely cause a disconnection. Many of my dojo members are also suffering from the problems (frequent disconnection and disconnection caused by Mercy attack). I don't think it is simply question of our Internet connection. 

[AreeSoothsayer]

Diversified Denial is a pretty good skill. My problem is while my MechaHound is split into 3 parts they are unable to use the other skills and when their time is up it's only seconds before they split up again. This makes it a choice between this skill or freely being able to use Audit and Prospectis abilities.

 

Could you either let it keep the main MechaHound active with only 2 specter pups or allow the specter pups to use the other 2 skills in exchange for a lower damage output?

[Arthegall]

I'm a big fan of fashion frame, so getting the ephemeras is very important to me. Unfortunately, I have had terrible luck and never once received an ephemera from either liches or sisters. I completely understand that this is the nature of RNG and that it is a pain in most games, but other games have a form of roll protection, and I would like something similar added to Warframe. I propose that liches/sisters, upon being upgraded to  level 5, roll an additional time for an ephemera. This would be a nice addition to the mechanical gameplay of the lich/sister system and allow people to feel like they aren't wasting their time farming a lich/sister; if they cannot discover the correct paragon combination, or lack an Oull, maxing out their lich or sister's level still grants them another shot at an ephemera. This also fits more with the lore, as when they reach their max level they are supposedly at their strongest, and an ephemera would certainly accentuate that fact.

[p_silveira]

Tenet Exec has a unique mechanic: on slam attacks, it produces 1x small series of shockwaves forward, and on heavy slam attacks it produces 3x series of small shockwaves forward. I got the weapon after getting Tenet Agendus, which also have a unique mechanic (a wave-like projectile on heavy attacks). The problems on Exec's gimmick are:

- The shockwaves deals negligible damage (compared to Tenet Agendus's projectile which has a very decent damage);
- The shockwaves have a very small range (compared to Tenet Agendus's projectile, which has a much bigger range);
- The shockwaves ragdolls the enemies caught on it's (small) path everywhere (after dealing next to no damage on them).

That weapon needs a lot of buffs on this mechanic if DE wants it actually be used by players. There are literally no benefits from using this unique gimmick, and it even gets in the way (because ragdolling).

[White_Matter]

14 hours ago, LittleSnowNeko said:

Why in the world are the sisters so much harder to get than the kuva liches? Because they come with a robot dog as well? Not worth the extra insane challenge honestly. To spawn a kuva lich you pop on over to Cassini on Saturn, run through it in almost no time at all, and spawn a larvaling and check to see if you want their weapon or not then go. To spawn a sister, you have to clear out the enemies that are probably surrounding the stupid gold hand to go to the Granum Void, you have to use a Zenith Coin so it costs an expendable resource, you then have to complete a challenge of killing annoying specter enemies, and if you fail it you don't get a sister candidate to spawn or any other reward and you're out a coin. And if the sister doesn't have the weapon you want? Time to run it again. This whole spawning process already makes it take much longer than spawning a lich, but also has an actual cost tied to it beyond just time in the form of Zenith coins (and added frustration). 

Why not make them spawn like kuva liches do, so in any level 20 or higher corpus mission, or at least make it so they spawn no matter which coin you use so we can just use our regular granum coins instead of the zenith. Would still be more annoying than farming for a lich, have a higher time, and an actual cost tied to it, but at the very least the enemies would be a bit easier to kill. 

I created one with Mesa just fine but I can't seem to create a Toxin  one.

I played around an hour with different toxin affinity frames and couldn't create 1 candidate. 

It already is a bigger hassle than a grineer lich at this point for me. I'll try a couple of times more and if I can't have a candidate I'll probably wait till the rework.

It is classic DE design, unfair RNG/grind on initial release and then gradually reduce it.

 

[CloudStrife91]

@[DE]Rebecca is there any chance with the next set of tenet weapons that we can possibly get a tenet quanta added to the game. Quanta is one of my favorite weapons and severely underused/underestimated that we have such a high disposition in rivens and the fact that it needs a lot of forms to make it viable was hoping it could be added for the polarity slots and it would just be cool to see a sister if parvos wielding let alone murdering you with a quanta 

[_.-Toscany-._]

So either my game glitched and I am the progenitor of a sister with a male voice actor: or, male Sister of Parvos specters can exist. May we get confirmation from DE; there are male and female corpus variants of liches?

 XD

Also I have corrected my Plasmor's element bonus, prior to this post. A Specter that Puddles their way to shield gating my attacks was annoying.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

Thank you DE, nothing better than being forced to play a game mode I have know experience in, desire to play, or even research/crafting in.  Now I get to play newb and ruin other players games joining them just to try and level in this mode before I can even continue using a system I was just fine with before the update all because why? You forcing this game mode on me? Sure Ill play it for however long it takes me to collect the weapons I want, but unlike before, I have no desire to collect ALL the lich/sister weapons if this is what I have to deal with. Glad I already grabbed the original Kuva weapons and max % the ones I liked before this update.

Edit: Reaching rank 1 in the rift solo does not gurantee Sister spawn, if even allows it. After over 40 solo runs and 30 pub squads, only had it spawn 5 times in pub when hitting rank 3. Never solo.

[(NSW)Peandragon]

On 2021-07-06 at 11:00 AM, DebrisFlow said:

 

We need a way to influence kuva/tenet weapon type occurence. Let it be a chance if you can't stand the concept of a deterministic outcome, it would still be better than no influence at all. As it is now, i repeat, it just suggests me not to engage in the Sisters for a looong time

When you capture the larvaling, it says the weapon type. If that's not the one you want, don't capture it. 

[Oreades]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)EnviousShadow92 said:

I am not sure if this was said…but do you guys think you could change it to whoever puts the crown in gets the sister? Because forgetting to switch it to private and others join after the void has been completed and can just kill the person to claim it is a bit saddening. From what I have noticed it is just whoever kills it and that just seems a little well silly but maybe I could be wrong.  

The whole Kingpin acquisition system is just wonky. 

The fact that you can spend potentially hours farming for the correct weapon drop BEFORE you even start engaging with the actual system, is actually maddening. The number of times I've thought I'd try Liches again only to spend like 20+ minutes NOT engaging with the system and ultimately just saying hecc this nonsense, is not insignificant. 

That said one of the easier bandaid fixes I can imagine would just be letting everyone who is present at the time the Larva is downed engage/accept the Kingpin. Allowing up to all four party members to be able to engage the system without turning it into either a fight to see who gets the thing or ending up with someone who doesn't even want a Kingpin accidentally getting the kill, thus blocking erryone else. 

The next thing I'd do would be shifting away from RNG weapons to a currency system where whatever Kingpin you got gave you enough currency to buy the weapon you wanted from an NPC. The weapons could still sport the RNG bonus and they could retain whatever the system is that merges the percentages. 

With those changes engaging with the system becomes more consistent to interact with as any and everyone can get a Lich from a single mission. Coupled with ANY lich now representing forward progress. 

[ShyPup]

2 hours ago, White_Matter said:

I created one with Mesa just fine but I can't seem to create a Toxin  one.

I played around an hour with different toxin affinity frames and couldn't create 1 candidate. 

It already is a bigger hassle than a grineer lich at this point for me. I'll try a couple of times more and if I can't have a candidate I'll probably wait till the rework.

It is classic DE design, unfair RNG/grind on initial release and then gradually reduce it.

 

So I made one with Revenant because I was just helping my friend farm one up and forgot to swap off of mine, and let's talk about some things with the sisters. First of all, the cold element sister abilities? Do they even actually have 3 of them, because I swear to god mine never used anything but puddle. She could apparently use Frosts snowglobe, but I never once saw her do it. Also, I finally kill her, only to find out that her dog is stuck in my inventory and I can never get rid of it apparently. This stupid thing that I don't even want is stuck taking up 2 of my companion slots, one for the dog and one for it's weapon, and I can't sell either of them. 

[AreeSoothsayer]

I've just used 3 coins to spawn a Spirex 3 times in a row. This is very, VERY, annoying.

[CortiWins]

Sisters Mechanics, Health and how to die

The top reason to die in fighting sisters is radiation effects and being killed by your team. It takes down my inaros with 9k life in a tick. It's as fun as dying to a dice roll. (Which it mostly is ). The fights are not very fun and seeing my damage numbers on sisters, "reducing the damage by 99% to make the fight a 100 times longer" is pretty close to reality. If something is not fun for 30 seconds, it won't be fun for 3 or 5 minutes.

Edit:

Fight idea: What if you had an enemy that had so much damage mitigation that within 10 seconds you can barely even reduce its shield by a few % but every few seconds it would teleport away and regenerate its whole shields. That way the player can fight for a solid 5 minutes without any progress until the whole group says "well, thats a you problem, byebye". Well, seeing how my recent attempt to kill a sister went, someone at DE had that idea already.

 

[yarl5000]

The beginning part of getting a lich/sister with the weapon you want needs to be addressed.  Especially before you add more weapons to the sisters as they got that extra grind with the zenith crown.   That lever pull isn't enjoyable and is down right boring making engaging with them not something I want to engage with.

Suggestions:

1. Limit the spawn pools based on: Lich (tile set/planet/enemy level), Sister (tier of coin used in hand)
2. Give us means to make the lich/sister spawn with the weapon we want.
3. Ideally both, give narrower RNG but let us have direct control when we want it.  

[Kraethius]

Hounds Feedback - As Enemies & Companions:

I think the enemy hounds feel great. They're pretty tough and have some abilites that strike a good balance where you'll want to avoid them, but failing isn't too detrimental. Their mobility is quite fresh as they chase you. Spawn rate is surprisingly high.

Friendly hounds are generally great. They do suffer from the general frailty most companions have. The mod abilites seem strong and very useful. They look cool to boot!

Sister Tenet Weapons

While I haven't hunted down all the weapons yet I feel I have to give feedback thanks to one weapon alone: The Envoy. The weapon is basically everything I could've wished from this patch. It's strong, yet not stronger than existing options. It has a unique feature that's fun to play with. Exilus slot can be used to speed up the missiles if you feel they're sluggish. And the holstered reload animation is so good. More like this if possible.

Murmur Reduction

I know I'm not gonna make many friends with this statement, but I feel a bit like they reduction is a bit too much. A sister very often spawns on the second node of a sector, and hasn't yet taken more than three. I usually have 2 of the 3 requiems by the time I wrap up Venus, which is pretty crazy.

New Requiem Mod Oull

Now, I don't know the drop rate of Oull, so there's a chance I've just been lucky with it. But (not making many friends with this either) I feel they're a bit too common for such a useful mod as I've been able to basically use them on every Lich/Sister and still have some to spare. Feels great to use though, no complaints on that department.

Parazon Rework

A massive step in the right direction. Introduces more on-the-fly decision making in the game which is absolutely great. I find myself seeking out enemies to mercy. I have to make decisions whether or not go for the enemy who opened up for mercy based on risks and rewards.

Not without it's issues though, as enemies can't be mercied mid-animation, and as I'm using a companion with a cold weapon the animations can take up to 10 seconds to finish. Not sure if bug or a feature.

New Kuva Lich Showdown Flow

The new node feels good. A short RJ skirmish before the fight isn't too short or long. Kuva Liches having new lines as you approach is great.

Sister version is really good. Introducing the specters into the fight was 100% the right call; in fact I lament a bit that they're so weak. The fight is of proper lenght and feels satistying to finish.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Please make Tenet Flux rifle a beam weapon. As it stands, the normal version is actually stronger due to its beam nature.

[spudster888.]

Main feedback, locking liches and sisters behind railjack is garbage design and an easy way to make alot of players just completely ignore the system. I love how your approach to making people do railjack is to force it by putting new content behind it, instead of you know making the gamemode not complete rubbish. This could easily be rectified by not changing something that wasn't broken ....

[(PSN)sieg_valentine]

16 hours ago, addamrobin2 said:

12 hours later, finally got a kuva zarr

25% toxin

mucking 25%

glad that's the reward i get for all of that

After 2 days i finally got a tenet arca plasmor i was excited until...

28% toxin

At this point i dont know if i would even still want to kill the sister.