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Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)


[DE]CoreyOnline
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Hounds Feedback - As Enemies & Companions:

I think the enemy hounds feel great. They're pretty tough and have some abilites that strike a good balance where you'll want to avoid them, but failing isn't too detrimental. Their mobility is quite fresh as they chase you. Spawn rate is surprisingly high.

Friendly hounds are generally great. They do suffer from the general frailty most companions have. The mod abilites seem strong and very useful. They look cool to boot!

Sister Tenet Weapons

While I haven't hunted down all the weapons yet I feel I have to give feedback thanks to one weapon alone: The Envoy. The weapon is basically everything I could've wished from this patch. It's strong, yet not stronger than existing options. It has a unique feature that's fun to play with. Exilus slot can be used to speed up the missiles if you feel they're sluggish. And the holstered reload animation is so good. More like this if possible.

Murmur Reduction

I know I'm not gonna make many friends with this statement, but I feel a bit like they reduction is a bit too much. A sister very often spawns on the second node of a sector, and hasn't yet taken more than three. I usually have 2 of the 3 requiems by the time I wrap up Venus, which is pretty crazy.

New Requiem Mod Oull

Now, I don't know the drop rate of Oull, so there's a chance I've just been lucky with it. But (not making many friends with this either) I feel they're a bit too common for such a useful mod as I've been able to basically use them on every Lich/Sister and still have some to spare. Feels great to use though, no complaints on that department.

Parazon Rework

A massive step in the right direction. Introduces more on-the-fly decision making in the game which is absolutely great. I find myself seeking out enemies to mercy. I have to make decisions whether or not go for the enemy who opened up for mercy based on risks and rewards.

Not without it's issues though, as enemies can't be mercied mid-animation, and as I'm using a companion with a cold weapon the animations can take up to 10 seconds to finish. Not sure if bug or a feature.

New Kuva Lich Showdown Flow

The new node feels good. A short RJ skirmish before the fight isn't too short or long. Kuva Liches having new lines as you approach is great.

Sister version is really good. Introducing the specters into the fight was 100% the right call; in fact I lament a bit that they're so weak. The fight is of proper lenght and feels satistying to finish.

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Main feedback, locking liches and sisters behind railjack is garbage design and an easy way to make alot of players just completely ignore the system. I love how your approach to making people do railjack is to force it by putting new content behind it, instead of you know making the gamemode not complete rubbish. This could easily be rectified by not changing something that wasn't broken ....

Edited by spudster888.
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16 hours ago, addamrobin2 said:

12 hours later, finally got a kuva zarr

25% toxin

mucking 25%

glad that's the reward i get for all of that

After 2 days i finally got a tenet arca plasmor i was excited until...

28% toxin

At this point i dont know if i would even still want to kill the sister. 

 

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This has been a long standing issue, but later rank (rank 4 and 5) Liches and now all Sister missions are just not fun play because you will usually have all 3 Requiems known by rank 3 thanks to the improved Murmur progression. Requiem Ultimatums only help so much with their abysmal attendance, and most of the time you feel like you should save the Ultimatum you may have for when you 100% know the correct code. Not to mention it feels pretty shameful to know all 3 requiems but still have to scour an entire planet because your rank 5 Lich/Sister just won't show up to fight. The "anger" meter needs to be either significantly down-scaled or completely done away with and have a Lich's spawn rate scale on their rank with rank 5 having at least a 50% chance to spawn.

Other than that, grinding Liches and Sisters have improved drastically since the Old Blood. They're a nice little objective you can either set aside an hour or two or spread out over a longer period.

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2 hours ago, Kraethius said:

Murmur Reduction

I feel a bit like they reduction is a bit too much. 

New Requiem Mod Oull

I feel they're a bit too common 

Ban him. Ban him right now. I haven't gotten a single Oull aside from my inboxed original yet. 

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53 minutes ago, -Augustus- said:

Ban him. Ban him right now. I haven't gotten a single Oull aside from my inboxed original yet. 

According to past hotfixes I was supposed to recieve an OULL/Requiem Ultimatum after every? fight, I'm still due one from the first patch after killing a lich summoned prepatch.

I can however confirm I got an OULL mod from vanquishing a Grattler lich, so it may be based on chance.

Which sucks, especially for the ultimatums, as of right now, I know 2 of 3 mods of my current lich, and 2 remaining possibilities including an OULL mod, yet I may be forced to scour two whole planets to get them to spawn enough to try out the combo, due to how the aggression bar works.

Ultimatums need to be added to a store, or at least be a permanent addition to nightwave/arbitration honour rotations.

Or the aggression bar needs to be able to increase regardless of what lich planet stage or lobby you are in, if you are going to force teamplay vs lich showdowns, then by extension the entire process of learning their mods should be team based too, this would encourage farming of liches in teams or squads vs the current reality where players have to farm nodes just to fight the lich they've spent hours farming murmurs for in their friend's lobby.

Forcing liches to spawn on tiers of planets has helped, however joining other people to farm the murmurs required to learn the combo of mods means you may join players on planets below or above your tier, thus you don't get aggression from it, an area where progress could be sped up quite easily, and friction reduced. 

 

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Old player who is a big fan of the classics, and a bigger fan if these classics gets some modern love. I got the Tenet Tetra and so far it doesn't disappoint with its power.

HOWEVER, why is its ALT fire function a mode swap? And why do I need a full mag to launch it? That means I need to reload when I switch to semi mode to launch a grenade and reload immediately after. Its so odd that I'm actually convinced this isn't working as intended with the multitude of magazine-dump alt fire weapons that already existed before this.

 

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Overall, I like the tweaks to Liches/Sisters. The speed of unlocking murmurs feels much better. I also really appreciate the Oull mod.

However, these things can still quickly become overwhelming. My friends and I spawned our second set of Sisters, and we had no trouble vanquishing the first set, or theirs in this second set. My second Sister, though, turns invisible, teleports, and replenishes her shields far too quickly. They are very good players, and I am, admittedly, not. I'm now trapped with a level 5 Sister that none of us can even touch the health of before she invisibly teleports away and rebuilds her shields. We've been hitting our heads against a wall for half the day, and we're not having fun anymore.

I understand that some players are seeking a serious challenge, but I was not. I'm stuck with an enemy that I can't kill. I can't even trade her away or cut my losses and delete her.

PLEASE give us an option to get rid of a Lich or Sister. An item sold for platinum in the store to make them go away, for example (yes, I'm suggesting a micro-transaction just to get rid of this thing). Or just paying them off with credits or kuva. The Sisters especially should be motivated by money, and it would make sense for them to be able to be paid off.

I've been playing Warframe for years, and I genuinely love the game, but today was the first time in a long time that I didn't have fun.

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After playing for a few more days , here is my more detailed feedback :

 

Liches & Sisters

Spoiler

I have no opinion on murmur reduction , since I don't really mind the speed of previous one

 

I do dislike the changes to the change to the planet they take over . 

Before that , they can take over any planet , the different environment and progression really reduce the feeling of repetitive .

But now the entire progress stay the same for every Lich / Sister , make them a little boring after a while .

I do accept it though , since match making is also important . 

 

Tenet / Kuva Weapons :

Spoiler

Their power seems to be very good , which is nice .

But I really don't like the 5 forma thing . And I thought you are done doing those :(

Leveling same weapon 5 times for mastery is not fun , even when I'm MR30 which have full mod capacity at Rank 0 .

 

It was cool when only for Paracesis , and start to feel really annoying when they are on all kuva weapons , then it's on Mech , now even more .

 

I wish it can reduce to only 3 forma . I won't even ask for a refund .

Just , please .

 

( And yes , I know those aren't mandatory . But I'm sure a lot of people will agree with this one . )

 

Holokeys

Spoiler

I think this is the place to talk about this ?

The holokey grind is really obnoxious due to it's RNG nature . I don't even want to do it .

 

This kind of RNG should really be additional reward , not all of it .

It's like Arbitration Arcanes all over again . When I finally get one after super long survival , I don't feel any joy , only relief and annoyed .

 

All of those kind of reward should be like in OP Orphix Venom , where player can have a steady progression , knowing their hard work will be rewarded . Then add in RNG for surprise progress , which will make player really happy when receiving them .

 

I suggest all void storm should give keys upon completion , and have additional chance to get more .

( Also please do this to arbitrations arcanes , too .)

Hounds 

Spoiler

Instead of getting one random parts after defeating Sisters , I wish there is more ways to get them , for easier customization .

 

I suggest either 

a) Hounds have a chance to drop their parts when they die .

or

b) we can dismantle them for their parts ,  maybe we can ask Legs to do it for 10k Fortuna standing and an hour .

 

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In regard to the Tenet Grigori:

The special feature of this weapon is effectively non-existent for two reasons.

The output is the first. The disc is diminutive, slow, doesn't track, and has barely any lifespan. It is more effective to simply melee attack again, as that has higher accuracy and range (With Primed Reach, that is) than the disc does. This leaves this feature more as a cosmetic attachment than anything else. It is legitimately that bad, you are just not ever going to hit anything with it. The way the Grigori was described reminded me of the Cedo, with a small but very fast, violent and aggressive projectile bouncing around the room, devastating everything in it with large explosions, and I would like the disc to be reworked to be somewhat similar to that in at least two categories: Make it fast, make it track, or make it volatile. 

The second reason is the trigger condition. Sliding heavy melee requires FOUR simultaneous inputs: Forward, Sprint, Crouch and Heavy. I rebound my alt-fire/heavy to Z and this is just not operable since I can't curve my fingers to hit control, shift and Z at the same time without resetting my entire hand position. Why was this put on such a weird move? Why not just heavy attack, or guarding heavy? This feels legitimately -awful- to use, which makes the lacklustre output so much worse.

Other than that, the Grigori is stylish and seems to do adequate damage.

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you now what really sucks about sis liches many can't get the damn 25kills to get the damn liches it fking suck
and other times throws you out the mission with 25kills but no lich

Edited by tokakan
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15 hours ago, (NSW)Peandragon said:

When you capture the larvaling, it says the weapon type. If that's not the one you want, don't capture it. 

Yes, because that's such a wonderful solution to spamming Cassini and aborting when I don't see a grattler, and doing that for a full hour until the "please take a break" message comes up. It's even more wonderful for the ridiculous token system and having to sit through the godawful granum void crap which makes each mission take 4 times as long just to stay in the same place (read: standing around waiting for the ridiculous BS bullet sponge treasurer to spawn). At least Cassini abort runs take 1m 30 including the time required to launch a new mission. Corpus lich attempts? That's going to be 5 minutes per run, at least.

Edited by DoomFruit
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Since there is no megathread for the void storms and we now are able to get tenet weapons from there through keys I'll post my feedback here.

DE, you should rethink where in the drop tables of the Void Storms we get holokeys. You shouldnt have replaced void traces, you should have replaced Radiant Relic drops with Holokeys. At the same time you should have added "Radiant Relic" or "Radiant Relic Bundle" to the holokey store. This would have added a reason to play void storms after obtaining every one-off item (Sev, Epitaph, Tenet weapons), since you'd atleast be able to buy Radiant Relics from the vendor.

Or if you wanna smoothen the flow more, replace both traces and relics in the drop tables with holokeys and make both purchasable from the holokey vendor.

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Sisters should maybe drop corrupted holokeys when ever you stab them like liches with kuva but keep it a 1 per stab so that farming sister don't overtake void storm farming but still feels like they're involved in with farming the rest of tenet weapons.

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

DE, you should rethink where in the drop tables of the Void Storms we get holokeys. You shouldnt have replaced void traces, you should have replaced Radiant Relic drops with Holokeys. At the same time you should have added "Radiant Relic" or "Radiant Relic Bundle" to the holokey store. This would have added a reason to play void storms after obtaining every one-off item (Sev, Epitaph, Tenet weapons), since you'd atleast be able to buy Radiant Relics from the vendor.

 

I think they should of replaced endo since having endo rewards since in later content seems odd considering you would have access to arbitrations by now and you already get mountains of endo from scrapping wreakage in RJ

 

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12 hours ago, (NSW)Lucifer-Morningst4r said:

I don’t know about other console s but on switch railhack is where the plat is since barely 10 percent of the player base plays it and besides I freaked lov railjack it’s super fun  and video games are supposed to be about fun if you don’t enjoy something don’t do it and don’t come here to complain about the mission being too long for you and yes they take 20 plus min but literally every mmo in the world has dungeons that take 30 plus min to finish that are required for end game so if you don’t have time to play rj then find a way to set the time. That’s why they invented calendars 

1) What the heck is wrong with you, can you not read. My post was not simply ranting but genuine feedback on their changes so get off your high horse and learn to actually read what people are saying. I clearly stated what we the players were promised, what was delivered, and why I as a player was not satisfied with the game mechanic and how it could be improved upon.

2) You talk of fun, but exclude others feelings on the matter of what counts as ‘fun’. It is not fun to have to do so much work in a video game where I come to have fun and not be rewarded. It is not fun to have to rely solely on RNG on a game mechanic that fits better in other places. It Is not fun to dedicate leisure time to basically grind and slog through one of the most seizure inducing missions god knows how many times when the efficiency of reward to effort is so low.

3) What a weak argument to compare the game fo other MMO’s, not only is your comparison inaccurate, you dare to lecture others on game mechanics. Railjack missions and void storms and are in no way a dungeon, they are “Missions” short and with a clear objective. You explore a dungeon, in railjack and especially void storms, the entire point is to be in and out as quick as possible. As a looter shooter, grinding is well and good, you’re preaching to the choir on that one, but the fact of the matter is that the loot to effort ratio is not balanced and requires correction.

4) Do not lecture me about time, love, and Warframe, I have dedicated years to this game and I love it for all its failures and triumphs. I love railjack and will constantly defend its place in the game.Your calendar comment was not funny nor witty, and your entire post was not constructive or beneficial to anyone.

Edited by (XBOX)JAKERS365
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On 2021-07-07 at 12:04 AM, Giantconch said:

Sister Tenet Weapons;

The first, and so far only Tenet weapon I've spawned is the Tetra. Though obviously the best variant of the Tetra to date, it's still a Tetra. It is single target moderate damage with little point in ever using, as there are AoE weapons that do far more damage to multiple enemies at once. I find it doubtful that the Tetra is some random outlier, as I have also obtained a Kuva Hek which suffers the same issue. The squad I was in, we farmed our new Kuva weapon of choice, and our first Tenet weapons, all together. Try as I might to get literally any kills, it was next to impossible with my single target weapons compared to their AoE nuclear bombs.

There is no remedy for this. Single target weapons are dead in the water and anything that does not have some massive AoE is going to collect dust as MR fodder short of the few weapons in the Eidolon hunting meta.

 

*****So, learning the Tetra has a secondary firing mode that is in fact a massive AoE that does fairly good damage. Kind of pathetic imo how badly Kuva Hek stands up now compared to even that.

 

I will not have you blaspheming against my Kuva Hek like this.

The Kuva Hek is more or less a sniper in close-range form.  It's not AOE (but none of the Hek variants truly are, outside of the radial Justice proc), but you can use the alt fire to dump the four barrels at once, making it hilarious against big targets after you soften them up with a good armor/shield strip and bonk them on the head.  No, you're not going to keep up with everyone using the big aoe weapons, but the Hek was never about being an AOE weapon, it was about having four loud barrels that sound chunky when they go off, and in that regard the Kuva Hek meets its mark.

Though it probably doesn't help my argument that the first thing I got was a +300% primary damage +1k maxhp Nyx Invigoration.

I think I'm gonna miss that buff next week.

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Can we really make farming Kuva Lich the timing same as Coprus Sisters? Please be honest, as now Kuva Lich still need about the same timing as before.

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I would like to see Tenet Livia a counter of the blocking angle gained, also want to know if there are gonna be any type of reflect mod while blocking because otherwise I feel this mechanic a little pointless in my opinion. Loved the weapon and I'll be trying these days to get something interesting and viable using the passive. 

Thanks for all this update, loved it <3

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Sisters should maybe drop corrupted holokeys when ever you stab them like liches with kuva but keep it a 1 per stab so that farming sister don't overtake void storm farming but still feels like they're involved in with farming the rest of tenet weapons.

I think they should of replaced endo since having endo rewards since in later content seems odd considering you would have access to arbitrations by now and you already get mountains of endo from scrapping wreakage in RJ

 

Both of those are good suggestions. Currently the holokey drops are so slow. Did a 35 minute survival and got 5 in total, and they are supposed to be common. And it isnt like I got other common rewards either, since the one that share common with the keys would be radiated relics, which I got zero.

Sadly it is also DE we are talking about, they seem obsessed with adding credit and endo rewards where it just isnt needed. Just look at sister progs, instead of Kuva that larvlings drop, the sister progs drop credits... O.o Those chicks could also grant 1 key.

👍👍 for your suggestions!

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  • corpus liches seem just "OK" in terms of 'thrall' count.  grineer still too high - not so much to get clues, but to get them mad enough to spawn
  • RNG of weapon selection with so many weapons means there is no way I'm bothering with valence fusion.  20+ runs to get the weapon I want? just no.
  • update in general seems like you looked to see where players didn't play (maps/modes) and force ppl to do them without improving them there is a reason void storms, railjack, kdrive, liches, etc are unloved.
  • all the weapons with 5 forma to max screams money grab - slow forma sales recently?.  and the tedium of levelling them up 6 times is absurd.  after the 1st forma they shouldn't reset, or get automatic dbl affinity accretion or something. 
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A proposition for new mods that would improve/add to the Parazon gameplay:

1. Parazon mod that gives 100% chance for 1 Void Trace from mercy killed enemy only during void fissures.

2. Parazon mod that gives flat 1k focus affinity for the operator from mercy killed enemy.

Edited by przemo877
Clarification
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