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Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)


[DE]CoreyOnline
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Liches and Sisters General Comments

  • Murmur reduction, Oull, Ultimatum and the Showdown made the experience much more streamlined and previsible. Thank you.
  • Weapon generation is still boring, especially for Sisters that takes a while. Please make the Larva/Candidate have the same weapon you used to kill them, if the weapon is an elegible Kuva/Tenet weapon it can have. This will make getting those 60% weapons you want to max much easier.
  • Sisters are teleporting too much, to up and down levels with Vault/Teleport (their 4 abilities). It's especially annoying when combined with the Toxin Sister's Renewal + Prowl. Please increase the delay on these abilities.
  • The streamlined planet according to your Lich/Sister level is nice. However, if you are hunting them with friends in a squad, it gets inefficient. Please allow Sisters to spawn in other influenced missions no matter the planet like before, even if the Sister/Lich level does not match the planet you are in.
  • If you get an Ephemera from a Lich/Sister you already own, you do not get anything else in return. Plus they show twice in the Ephemera selection, which is really awful if you got plenty of them.

Railjack Showdown & Corrupted Holo Keys

The amount of people that has no idea what to do in Railjack missions is absurd. The amount of people with stock Railjack with no wreckages built at all is pretty high.

I, however, am a big Railjack fan, I've done a lot of it. I want Railjack to be loved by everyone, so here are is my drastic but simple suggestions to improve Railjack itself and thus the Showdown/Corrupted Holo Keys experience:

  1. Buff the default Sigma parts to have the same stats as the current Sigma Mk3. This will allow the basic Railjack to have the bare minimum performance for high levels. If it's needed.
  2. Delete Sigma Mk1, 2 and 3 parts from the game. Give proper compensation for the materials invested, if possible. If not, it ain't a big deal.
  3. Delete Lavan/Vidar/Zetki Mk1 and Mk2 parts from the game. Same as above.
  4. Remove the "Mk3" from Lavan, Vidar and Zekti Mk3 parts, naming them simply "Lavan Photor", "Zetki Engine". Done.
  5. Merge Railjack nodes into the default starchart. This will make Railjack be part of the game, and not just an optional game mode that suddenly becomes mandatory for the Liches/Sisters and many other systems.
  6. Introduce a quick Railjack tutorial Quest (or extend Vor's Prize) with both a Skirmish and a Volatile mission. A single mission is enough, as long as it's broke down and forces the player to think about how to complete the objectives.
  7. While the player does not have their own Railjack, make them use a basic one without customizations or match them with people that have it.

Parazon

Parazon finishers are still hard to pull. Everything is nuked before you can even think about finishing an enemy with the Parazon. The moment we aim at them to see their health bar, they are usually already dead, especially in a full squad.

The current % of Health is honestly a bad mechanic. My suggestion is to make it Mortal Kombat style:

  1. Target took enough damage to reach 0 Health.
  2. Instead of being killed, they go into the Parazon Finisher state for 0.5-1 second.
  3. While in this state, you can press X to make a Parazon Finisher if you want. Otherwise, you can just shoot/melee/whatever to kill it. Or leave them be and wait for them to die on their own after the 0.5-1 second passes.

Impact Status could make it trigger with Health higher than 0 like Nova's 4 blows up enemies with a certain threshold of remaining Health.

Hounds

We can't pet them in the Orbiter... :( I bet everyone wants to!

 

Thank you for the great work. See you at Tennocon!

Edited by Lakyus
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21 minutes ago, Lakyus said:

Liches and Sisters General Comments

  • Murmur reduction, Oull, Ultimatum and the Showdown made the experience much more streamlined and previsible. Thank you.
  • Weapon generation is still boring, especially for Sisters that takes a while. Please make the Larva/Candidate have the same weapon you used to kill them, if the weapon is an elegible Kuva/Tenet weapon it can have. This will make getting those 60% weapons you want to max much easier.
  • Sisters are teleporting too much, to up and down levels with Vault/Teleport (their 4 abilities). It's especially annoying when combined with the Toxin Sister's Renewal + Prowl. Please increase the delay on these abilities.
  • The streamlined planet according to your Lich/Sister level is nice. However, if you are hunting them with friends in a squad, it gets inefficient. Please allow Sisters to spawn in other influenced missions no matter the planet like before, even if the Sister/Lich level does not match the planet you are in.
  • If you get an Ephemera from a Lich/Sister you already own, you do not get anything else in return. Plus they show twice in the Ephemera selection, which is really awful if you got plenty of them.

Railjack Showdown & Corrupted Holo Keys

The amount of people that has no idea what to do in Railjack missions is absurd. The amount of people with stock Railjack with no wreckages built at all is pretty high.

I, however, am a big Railjack fan, I've done a lot of it. I want Railjack to be loved by everyone, so here are is my drastic but simple suggestions to improve Railjack itself and thus the Showdown/Corrupted Holo Keys experience:

  1. Buff the default Sigma parts to have the same stats as the current Sigma Mk3. This will allow the basic Railjack to have the bare minimum performance for high levels. If it's needed.
  2. Delete Sigma Mk1, 2 and 3 parts from the game. Give proper compensation for the materials invested, if possible. If not, it ain't a big deal.
  3. Delete Lavan/Vidar/Zetki Mk1 and Mk2 parts from the game. Same as above.
  4. Remove the "Mk3" from Lavan, Vidar and Zekti Mk3 parts, naming them simply "Lavan Photor", "Zetki Engine". Done.
  5. Merge Railjack nodes into the default starchart. This will make Railjack be part of the game, and not just an optional game mode that suddenly becomes mandatory for the Liches/Sisters and many other systems.
  6. Introduce a quick Railjack tutorial Quest (or extend Vor's Prize) with both a Skirmish and a Volatile mission. A single mission is enough, as long as it's broke down and forces the player to think about how to complete the objectives.
  7. While the player does not have their own Railjack, make them use a basic one without customizations or match them with people that have it.

Parazon

Parazon finishers are still hard to pull. Everything is nuked before you can even think about finishing an enemy with the Parazon. The moment we aim at them to see their health bar, they are usually already dead, especially in a full squad.

The current % of Health is honestly a bad mechanic. My suggestion is to make it Mortal Kombat style:

  1. Target took enough damage to reach 0 Health.
  2. Instead of being killed, they go into the Parazon Finisher state for 0.5-1 second.
  3. While in this state, you can press X to make a Parazon Finisher if you want. Otherwise, you can just shoot/melee/whatever to kill it. Or leave them be and wait for them to die on their own after the 0.5-1 second passes.

Impact Status could make it trigger with Health higher than 0 like Nova's 4 blows up enemies with a certain threshold of remaining Health.

Hounds

We can't pet them in the Orbiter... :( I bet everyone wants to!

 

Thank you for the great work. See you at Tennocon!

All this! Thank you for speaking what was most likely on a lot of players' minds without being rude about it! The only real difference in experience that I am seeing is that on Playstation at least, people somewhat know what they are doing with Railjack, so we have hope. That and a proper setup makes acquisition of a sister a mere chore, so hopefully they can make it more fun and engaging. I mean seriously, I just used Ash to get a Sister and I didn't have to use his abilities or even really try to hit tier 1 in the rank 3 granum void. all I used was my Xoris. As Todd Howard once said: "It just works."

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1 hour ago, Lakyus said:

While in this state, you can press X to make a Parazon Finisher if you want. Otherwise, you can just shoot/melee/whatever to kill it

I think this would create the same issue of the enemy getting killed by something else or by that accidental extra bullet. I think the 1 second thing when theyre out of health or when they drop below a health threshold is good enough. Increase the reward for doing it maybe, elsewise id leave it alone

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Whelp I'm back to the point where I'm just going to run the Lich spawn to check for the weapon I'm after either 4 times or until the game "change of plans" me at which point I'm Alt+F4ing out of the game and going to play another game. 

Because I am not spending nine billion hours trying to spawn the correct weapon just so I can START to engage with the kingpin system. Srsly just change to a currency system and let me pick up the weapon I want from the console in the orbiter after the Kingpin cycle is complete. Especially now that you have virtually flooded the grineer drop tables, that is just strait up a hot mess. 

Nor am I putting up with that lame "change of plans" BS, I chose to do X mission not Y mission. Changing the mission type after the mission has been completed is not cute or surprising, it's disrespectful to your players, if I'd wanted to run an exterminate I WOULD HAVE SELECTED EXTERMINATE FROM THE STARCHART. So please remove that nonsense full stop. 

That's pretty much my final take on the Kingpin system. 

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I'm very disappointed that this new system discourages squad play for a number of reasons:

1)My lich has no chance to spawn if I stabbed it and am continuing on the same planet because my clanmates lich hasn't spawned yet.  So it doesn't make sense for us to keep playing together. 

2)If I join a match in progress, every murmur that was stabbed without me present counts as though I was present.  So by squadding up, we extend the total time we need to farm murmurs.  Again, this doesn't make sense to squad up. 

Overall, the process of taking out liches in a squad takes anywhere from 3-10x longer than it does by joining random matches.  Most of time, it took about the same amount of time to kill our liches under the new system as the old system when in a squad.  This resulted in my clanmate and I not playing together which really ruins the fun of the game.

 

This could be easily remedied by two changes:

1)Allow liches to spawn on every planet up to the most recently unlocked planet.  Or like the old system, keep the remaining nodes active until all have been completed.  This will allow players to still progress their lich while playing with their friends. 

2)Increase the number of murmur spawns based on the number of players in squad. 

Overall, I like the new system with less murmur farming and integration of Railjack but the fun is sucked out of it if I can only play with randoms to avoid taking hours to kill a lich.

Additional feedback:

I also find only doing the same planets very boring.  We miss going to Lua.  

Almost no one has been doing kuva liches and since you're only getting squadded with people doing the same type, this results in solo farming murmurs.  What about crossfire planets being unlocked in addition to the Grineer/Corpus planets?  Lua is a perfectly good example :D.  This would bring variety and allow me to farm a Kuva lich while my clanmate farms a Corpus lich.

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19 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Nor am I putting up with that lame "change of plans" BS, I chose to do X mission not Y mission. Changing the mission type after the mission has been completed is not cute or surprising, it's disrespectful to your players, if I'd wanted to run an exterminate I WOULD HAVE SELECTED EXTERMINATE FROM THE STARCHART. So please remove that nonsense full stop. 

Agreed, nothing says auto-abort like "change of plans tenno", like yes there is, I was going to finish the mission for the measly 200 kuva consolation prize but now Im just going to leave.

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18 minutes ago, tokakan said:

Can you please count down the kill count for sis liches this starting to be annoying 25kills to damn much not even worlth playing!!

Thats literally like 30s in the void with a half baked xoris build. If anything Im in the boat of refunding the crown if the mission is aborted.

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3 minutes ago, tokakan said:

will i done 43 games for sis liches  with muilti players nobody can get the kills   it anyway 19-20kill every dang time

Do you have a corrosive Xoris thats built for heavy attack? Additionally, you are better off doing the acquisition solo.

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done it both way solo and with 4 people it alway 19-20 kill even with people with that xoris weapon 🤨'better off  just buying the grab with plat 

Edited by tokakan
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1 minute ago, tokakan said:

done it both way solo and with 4 people it alway 19-20 kill even with people with that xoris weapon

were they activating the captives when needed? Also,  if you stand still for a few seconds, they come to you. Just throw and detonate the Xoris in a group of enemies that is large and you can snag like 5-10 of them in a proper detonation. Lastly, pick up the little golden pyramids. both the captives and the little golden pyramids give extra time.

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PLEASE  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make the candidate spawn like the kuva candidates. It's completely annoying as how it is right now.

For greeneer lich, you just need to
1)Kill few enemies when lights flicker to spawn it

For corpus candidate, you need to:
1)Have some coins - and good lord, you need tons of them because you might get Tenet diplos 30 times in a row, which you already own.
2)Have specific gear to get 25 kills in short period of time - unless you like to get stun locked in place, get killed, run out of time and spend your coin for nothing.


This is absolutely stupid mechanic. Either just let them spawn like kuva candidates - or return the protection from double weapons - where the next weapon you spawn won't be as same as previous.

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24 minutes ago, JunkL0ver said:

PLEASE  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make the candidate spawn like the kuva candidates. It's completely annoying as how it is right now.

For greeneer lich, you just need to
1)Kill few enemies when lights flicker to spawn it

For corpus candidate, you need to:
1)Have some coins - and good lord, you need tons of them because you might get Tenet diplos 30 times in a row, which you already own.
2)Have specific gear to get 25 kills in short period of time - unless you like to get stun locked in place, get killed, run out of time and spend your coin for nothing.


This is absolutely stupid mechanic. Either just let them spawn like kuva candidates - or return the protection from double weapons - where the next weapon you spawn won't be as same as previous.

Eh just use the xoris when doing the granum thing. Its easy to get 25 kills. 

Edited by (PSN)sieg_valentine
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6 minutes ago, (PSN)sieg_valentine said:

Eh just use the xoris when doing the granum thing. Its easy to get 25 kills. 

It's been a while since I did the quest. People say this but how should I use it? Should I be releasing the captives? I suck at the mode.

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7 minutes ago, mrEkli said:

It's been a while since I did the quest. People say this but how should I use it? Should I be releasing the captives? I suck at the mode.

yeah, that would help, but getting to tier one you shouldn't really need it if you use a Heavy detonation Xoris build like I do.

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8 minutes ago, mrEkli said:

It's been a while since I did the quest. People say this but how should I use it? Should I be releasing the captives? I suck at the mode.

Honestly i dont free the captives unless im farming for protea getting 25 kills is easy within the 60 sec. Throw the xoris and detonate it on the spectres.

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that easy to say when i did 43 games  failed all 43@! with 4 people nobody could do dang thing even with people that used that weapon they still failed
ether run out time right at last min or could not get enough then bang back to game no lich shexxsh

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53 minutes ago, JunkL0ver said:

PLEASE  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make the candidate spawn like the kuva candidates. It's completely annoying as how it is right now.

For greeneer lich, you just need to
1)Kill few enemies when lights flicker to spawn it

For corpus candidate, you need to:
1)Have some coins - and good lord, you need tons of them because you might get Tenet diplos 30 times in a row, which you already own.
2)Have specific gear to get 25 kills in short period of time - unless you like to get stun locked in place, get killed, run out of time and spend your coin for nothing.


This is absolutely stupid mechanic. Either just let them spawn like kuva candidates - or return the protection from double weapons - where the next weapon you spawn won't be as same as previous.

1. use xoris to beat granum void its literally a brain ded strat everyone can use
2. hydra capture mission 100 spawns a coin guy after u complete the granum void basically making it free 

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9 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

This wasn;t a problem - it meant you could famr murmurs with others by running missions deliberately elsewhere. Once you had 2 or 3 requiems known, then you coudl hunt your lich down and you'd require 3 (or 4 if you were really really unlucky) stab attempts to kill it.

now, you're running missions with others and old lichy will appear before you're ready - I had one level up to 5 simply because it kept on appearing before I had known even 1 requiem. When that means is that the lich will quickly get to level 5 and then haunt the (obviously much beloved) Kuva fortress tileset. Oh goody.

The old system worked, as evident by nobody having amuch of a problem with it. The new one is chance for no reason whatsoever (excep the final showdown in the floating OAP carehome for defeated liches where a squad of 4 will kill 4 liches - or rather, a squad of 3 will follow 1 OP guy round watching him kill 4 liches. Not at all what was intended, I'm sure)

Read the context - I was talking about it being a problem in the context of matchmaking. In my first paragraph I directly mentioned murmur sharing being a thing. If you needed help fighting your Lich (because you can't do it solo for whatever reason) it was much harder. I agree that the old system was better, but I was trying to make suggestions that would compromise DE's want to improve matchmaking.

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2 hours ago, tokakan said:

that easy to say when i did 43 games  failed all 43@! with 4 people nobody could do dang thing even with people that used that weapon they still failed
ether run out time right at last min or could not get enough then bang back to game no lich shexxsh

both the vermisplicer primary and the kuva nukor can get to 50 kills before the timer expirers, if you do not wish to go the melee route 

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Okay, constantly aborting missions if you don't get a larvling with the weapon you want is not a healthy process. No, 200 Kuva is not enough and I don't give a dang about them until you make Rivens not being this multi layer RNG mess.

Here is what you can do, add a "Weapon Name Larvling Bait" item that allows you to force spawn a larvling with the weapon you want. Make it cost a lot of Kuva or heck maybe even cost requiem mods.. anything expensive. Constantly going to Cassini or Hydra then abort if you don't get what you want is a very tedious and exhausting process. It creates burnout.

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6 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Okay, constantly aborting missions if you don't get a larvling with the weapon you want is not a healthy process. No, 200 Kuva is not enough and I don't give a dang about them until you make Rivens not being this multi layer RNG mess.

Agreed, the kuva weapon pool is so over populated now getting what you want is just painful, took me 2 hours to just get 1 of the new 3 to pop. I have never even bothered to try again figure I will max out my sister stuff first.

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