Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[taiiat]

i went out and prioritized Tenet Envoy, among a few other Weapons, because i could tell they were a lot more interesting than the rest.
however, using Envoy, it leaves a little bit to be desired. it's good, just the way it works seems to cry out for a couple particular features that just aren't there.

• the VFX and tracking sound changes when you're aiming directly at an Enemy. but this doesn't seem to actually do anything. so, why does it do that at all? i don't see the point of it existing.
  but, it could be useful! what i'd recommend is that when aiming directly at an Enemy, the Missile travels faster, plus the Explosion has reduced falloff.
• also, this Weapon autoreloads while Holstered. but to really encourage that type of playstyle, you should really give this Weapon a faster innate Holster Speed.
• because of the nature of this Weapon encouraging precision guidance, maybe there should be something extra that happens if you get a Headshot with these Missiles.

could also stand to reduce the Falloff a bit just overall, in addition. it's not like this is ever going to be an Overpowered weapon by any stretch.

[tokakan]

the problem with the kuva nukor is that they move to fast in all directions if do get shot it only 2 but then other 2-3 stun and surely kill you before you  get any shot off to get 1-2 ending up with 19-20 kills each time  then people just abort the mission. and bang you fail can't tell how many games i done today and people just get fed up quit. 

it's nice that players are now aborting missions after stabbing their liches/sisters what thoughtful behaviour 

and yes that also happens all time also people stab the lich just leave it nobody else can stab it but people that stab it first.
they should change that so other can stab the damn thing..  have set were if don't kill it in matter of time it get up and somebody else can stabb it also.

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 hours ago, addamrobin2 said:

it's nice that players are now aborting missions after stabbing their liches/sisters

what thoughtful behaviour 

Unless they're already fully known, that's not the smartest option since you don't keep the murmur progress from earlier in the mission or the stab itself if you abort.

Can't fix stupid, though. Making the adversary not level/advance if aborting after stab would make the abort more valuable since you could just test combinations without resetting their ANGERY meter or making them beefier.

[pook-pook]

Got a Sister candidate, no weapon displayed over their head. Ended up being a duplicate :( but also had the radiation ephemera, so it's not all bad :P

Still, it's a bug.

[mizeriq]

Murmur requirements for liches were only reduced for the first mod reveal, instead of all them, making liches almost the same as before. The patch notes indicate a reduction to ~2/3 across the board. Might be a simple oversight.

If a player does not use their parazon on their lich, the lich aggression level does not reset, leading to some deliberately playing multiplayer, so they can benefit from other player's liches, but refusing to do the same for others. This destroys the spirit of coop and is unfair to players who play to benefit the team, leading to animosity, negative interactions and players reconsidering whether they should also play that way instead. The aggression should reset and other players should still get murmur progression, even if the lich doesn't get hit with a parazon.

Adjusting lich/sister spawn rates would also help stop players from feeling they are "losing" by attacking their lich before they have all of their mods revealed, since they'll get another attempt soon anyway.

[UdsUds]

Defiled Requiem Transmuting

Transmuting 4 of the same Requiem to be the same one. Currently this is still random.

[syl42]

I'm really pleased with the Sisters of Parvos, but it's still too long with Kuva Lich, compared to the Sisters. I hope this isn't a bug, but I see sisters popping all the time and that's why it progresses faster. But with Kuva Lich, I see some of them after a couple of missions (like 5-6), and I don't really see any difference compared to what it previously was.

Sisters take 1h, and it's around 4h for a Kuva Lich.

[kyori]

You have forgot to include a "select all" wreckages button in the dojo console. Please put it in after tennocon, thank you.

[R34LM]

I know I've already said this, but I need to hammer this down to make it heard.

 

Liches take MUCH too long. Currently I am still on Earth, with one requiem found and halfway into the next, and my Lich still has not spawned. Being spoiled by how expedient Sisters go, this just feels like a slog, and I'm just waiting for the guy to spawn, while having to do missions types I just don't like because I'm exhausting the current options (interception chief among the ones I loathe). With Sisters, at most I have to do three missions, at most.

 

Please give Liches the same amount of expediency as you have given sisters.

[(PSN)chaniusul]

stop with 5 forma to 40.

[tokakan]

forma not that hard to get you get 50 or more in 1 day its build time need to be cut down to 4-6hours. 

[UdsUds]

Parazon Mercy, not  sure if intended, but..

Enemies under crowd control wont let you execute parazon finisher. This is true as well with heat and electric procs.

[(XBOX)Mharcei]

Last post here before tennocon:

- overall. I enjoy Sisters. Good speed to completion. They can be difficult. I like the aggressive hounds. Spectres are a nice touch. Sister/lich planets and assassination mission is nice and a plus for matchmaking. Great work on tenet weapons (guns and melee). Ergo + fusion is some grinding but missions go fast enough.

- liches still feel like grind (likely the number of thralls needed)

- I think the heavy attack on the tenet sword/shield needs punch through or QA. Seems to get blocked by handrails and little stuff, which takes some fun away.

- I've notice issues getting candidates to spawn with Golden hands near the end of missions (~250m). Minor issue but calling it out. Seems like candidates spawning in unreachable floor tiles has been fixed, thank you.

- obligatory rng complaint for candidate weapons. Hoping DE doesn't do this large grab bag outside liches/sisters again. I can't get the detron and my buddy can't get the arca. /rant.done

- i very much do not like the completed hound filling my foundry (aside from detron, I'm well into doing fusions). Shortcut to sell them? Some sort of queue to pull them from the pet machine in the orbiter? What if they perma-death if not rezzed in missions? Just ideas to get to a solution. 

- (edit) cmd10 Rook's dialogue is hilarious 5stars on that.

(edit) there's a weird little delay right after the paragon and before convert/vanquish shows for Sisters

-(edit) some railjack ideas: use solar rails to travel between rooms of ships, run a blockade with a stolen grineer ship from the hangar, survey a location without detection or kill scouts before they report in, assassinate an ace pilot/squadron (grustak3), mine/loot an area/wreckage before enemy backup arrives, dock grineer crewship with detonation and escape a base before it blows, and detect an enemy spy ship by hacking frontier beacons and then engage. 

- (edit) also thank for the adjustment to tenet fusion overlays. They work great 👍 

- (edit) is diple aimed-seeker shot doing the intended damage. Trying to use it and it just doesn't seem worth it. Kind of expecting it to insta-kill low end enemies.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

I killed 1 sister the first day, then went about farming ambassador for the next week only to get half.   Gave up and going back to Sisters now...   Killed 2 more...

• When you get your sequence right and your Lich just bails without saying anything.   That was extremely confusing when I came back.  I thought it bugged out and didnt give me my kill/capture moment.   So you really need to reinforce through audio or screens that your Lich has ran away to railjack.   Im not gonna forget again but new people are gonna freak out also.   
• Giving us whole hounds after the first is a big mistake.   They just pile up in our inventory.   You have to keep deleting extra weapons.   Im not sure if you can exchange extra hounds for anything at Leggs yet.  I know you only need the 3 models and weapons for mastery.   But after the first we should just get parts so its not clogging our slots.
• I got an ephemera on my second lich.  After killing it I switched frames and went to Pluto - hydra to get a new lich.   Everything went fine but my previous lich's ephemera was listed in rewards and my new lich was wearing it when it contacted me.    But then afterwards when I opened the lich screen it did not have an ephemera. ( it wasnt the same progenitor anyways)
• Theres no explanation of why your Lich just gets insanely more tougher just from running away to raijack.  There is no reason they should be.  Just revert Lich toughness and ban mechs.   The Spectre bodyguard I dont know about.. ( i swear I got one shot through damage reduction)

-One thing about new Lich progression is we murder way less thralls.   So we get way less requiem relics.   That should be addressed..

-ooll mods can be helpful,  but the majority of the time they are a waste of space.   They dont help you learn your sequence.   Best case scenario is you learn your first 2 mods and one of them is the 1st in the sequence.  Then you can flip flop the second and ooll before you learn your 3rd.   (This also requires you to use ultimatums to make your lich show up). 

Ooll mods should remove 1 mod/sequence upon use.   After you use an Ooll your lich's sequence should only need 2 mods.  

Another idea I had that would help with several things at once.   If you equip an Ooll mod then you should be able to stab your lich WITHOUT leveling him up.   People complain about people who dont stab their lich.   This would help you learn mods/sequence, and it would make people not afraid to stab their lich.   Win Win.  

-----------------------

Sister farming is going to be a breeze...    

Now can we talk about the major changes that need to happen to Ambassador Farm?  Tenet Melee/holos???   

[Perisie]

Suggestion regarding the generation of Kuva weapons from the growing pool of options: when you get a potential lich and down them, after seeing what weapon they have if you choose to leave without turning them into a lich that weapon goes on a cooldown for thirty minutes. For the next thirty minutes you won't see that weapon on potential liches. This should help people get the weapon they want without having to beat their heads endlessly against Cassini while also not being so simple as just choosing what weapon you get.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)AbBaNdOn_ said:

When you get your sequence right and your Lich just bails without saying anything.   That was extremely confusing when I came back.  I thought it bugged out and didnt give me my kill/capture moment.   So you really need to reinforce through audio or screens that your Lich has ran away to railjack.   Im not gonna forget again but new people are gonna freak out also.   

Well, it says it boldly at the bottom of your screen " [Lich name/Sister name] flees to [Saturn/Neptune] Proxima". What more do you really want DE to do? Make people more observant? I'm confused where the issue is here when it directly states it.

[(PSN)darin1355]

Does anyone know how match making is done for the final showdown? I ask because I have a crappy Railjack (I havent cared about it so I didn't invest much time into it) and I feel like we are always on my Railjack. 

[(PSN)chaniusul]

Il y a 6 heures, tokakan a dit :

forma not that hard to get you get 50 or more in 1 day

if you had no job and no life yeah....

19 lich, 12 tennen = 155 forma = 155 day.

 

[LTBIFF]

I don't post a lot on here but when I do... I hate to complain, I really do. Just trying to get a Sister is hard for me to solo just to get the 25 kills now, even using the weapon that everyone suggests to use. I like the progression of how fast you can get them up to find the right combo to kill the Sister but on how trying to get them... leaves me frustrated to no end. Why on Nightmare? I mean even with a group we still can't get a Sister to spawn. So not sure if I really want to continue trying to get a Sister to spawn, I pretty much want to ignore it but at the same time I don't because I like to collect things, just leaves me feel like I am incapable of playing when I can't do things solo.  I don't know, maybe I am overthinking things.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

4 minutes ago, LTBIFF said:

I don't post a lot on here but when I do... I hate to complain, I really do. Just trying to get a Sister is hard for me to solo just to get the 25 kills now, even using the weapon that everyone suggests to use. I like the progression of how fast you can get them up to find the right combo to kill the Sister but on how trying to get them... leaves me frustrated to no end. Why on Nightmare? I mean even with a group we still can't get a Sister to spawn. So not sure if I really want to continue trying to get a Sister to spawn, I pretty much want to ignore it but at the same time I don't because I like to collect things, just leaves me feel like I am incapable of playing when I can't do things solo.  I don't know, maybe I am overthinking things.

If anything, I would be more upset that they hid adding Adaptation to the Sisters/Liches.

[Sasquatchias]

11 minutes ago, LTBIFF said:

I don't post a lot on here but when I do... I hate to complain, I really do. Just trying to get a Sister is hard for me to solo just to get the 25 kills now, even using the weapon that everyone suggests to use. I like the progression of how fast you can get them up to find the right combo to kill the Sister but on how trying to get them... leaves me frustrated to no end. Why on Nightmare? I mean even with a group we still can't get a Sister to spawn. So not sure if I really want to continue trying to get a Sister to spawn, I pretty much want to ignore it but at the same time I don't because I like to collect things, just leaves me feel like I am incapable of playing when I can't do things solo.  I don't know, maybe I am overthinking things.

I've honestly had little issue with the Granum Void portion of getting a Sister myself - a halfway decently modded Xoris is enough to majorly chunk or wipe out a wave of Specters, and once you get the full charge the rest is trivial since the aoe one-shots them.

[tokakan]

finely after 71 games i ending up getting the only lich i wanted.  thank god am done with this sis mess but shexx 71games just get 1 lich 

[Xanoth]

Kuva liches generally feel worse than sisters to progress.

While improved from before, they are still harder to spawn and slower to unlock requiems for.

Thraals often still spawning 10+ minutes into a capture mission if the player hangs around long enough.

Their agression levels remain low for way too long often taking at least 5+ solo missions and staying in for 10+ minutes each time until thraals nolonger spawn to generate maximum threat on my own lich.

 

The original Kuva Lich design is what made me quit the game for almost a year, after farming 60+ of them I was just left hating the game.

The new system is better, but its still a long grind just to get each weapon once.  If you want to get a specific weapon or several to 60% elemental damage you're looking at possibly double that grind again.

 

These sorts of pure RNG highly diluted grinds with tedious mechanics that have multiple restrictions to them are already a huge turn off for a lot of players, and those of us that push through and keep doing them just end up resenting the game at the end of it.  Eidelons were the same when they were the only way to get those Arcanes (and some mods).

_________________

 

Both liches and sisters are EXTREMELY furustrating to interact with when you're mission just 1 specific weapon.

Pure RNG is a terrible way to implement this as you're bound to get 0.1% outliers in a game with thousands of players.

You're curating terrible experiences by design.

 

Lich weapons should start as an array of each weapon.  When it's offered to the player once, and they refuse it, it's removed from the array. 

Randomly pick weapons from the array until the array is empty, then repopulate and start over.

It's still a time consuming grind if the Kuva weapon you want is the 19th, but at least you get to see every weapon after 19 attempts.

[przemo877]

Seeing how there is more need to forma all sorts of gear more than ever, but there are no other options to get more forma than from relics which then takes 23 hours to built, I'd like to suggest an alternative small balance change to weapons fusion: on top of what it already does IMHO it should also apply a free forma to the fused weapon. So if you don't want to forma 5x your lich/sister weapon, just fuse it 5x more times instead.

[LTBIFF]

12 hours ago, Sasquatchias said:

I've honestly had little issue with the Granum Void portion of getting a Sister myself - a halfway decently modded Xoris is enough to majorly chunk or wipe out a wave of Specters, and once you get the full charge the rest is trivial since the aoe one-shots them.

That might be the problem I am having, I may not be using the weapon correctly to get the kills needed. Going to have to do more research then. Thanks for the feedbacks guys!