Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[(PSN)jockhotty]

On 2021-07-23 at 10:07 PM, TheLexiConArtist said:

***important***

You are not the mouthpiece for the whole community. You are just one subset refusing to acknowledge opposing perspectives.

A cap ensures:

1. You do not have to engage every task (important for those who can't stand certain activities, or have yet to unlock them)
2. Those who seek completion have an achievable goal (usually, unless DE do stupid things like they did with Glassmaker over-extensions)
3. Missing daily duties does not add up to actively losing payout (doing the recoverable Weekly tasks will provide the vast majority of standing so missing dailies is survivable)
4. In the case of seasons with recurring standing-payout enemies, you do not feel obliged to also invest mindless 'busywork' time playing the game as long as you do your Tasks (except for the idiotic Glassmaker decision.)
5. Acquisitions from Nightwave - including typically-platinum sinks in potatoes - are controlled to a known maximum, especially in seasons with farmable Standing, even when the Nightwave duration runs long. These still exceed old alerts in general reliability for the players who do not have open schedules, until truly excessive overruns, which is when caps are extended or a new track is announced.
6. We the players have some idea of the expected length of the Nightwave track, as long as we consider these design-philosophy points.

 

Intermission is still doing its job because it hasn't overrun very long (considering it started with an extended-length Prestige track compared to previous installments). If you can't budget your cred purchases, DE aren't obliged to give you more just because you did stuff you didn't necessarily need to do any more. Strictly speaking all you 'need' to keep doing are the dailies, since you could start indefinitely recovering all the weeklies if-and-when a cap extension was announced.

 

I too am doing all my Nightwave tasks, I am at the cap, and have hit the cap in every non-glAssmaker track. I'm not salty there's a cap, instead I'm salty they gave us one that was unreasonable to achieve if you weren't a regular Steel Path exploiter while that lasted.

I don't feel entitled to more cred for these extra tasks I do. They're still serving their secondary purpose - making me touch activities I don't usually think about any more.

Please exclude any suggestion that the above person was included in my subset. I am pointing out what was said when Alerts were removed. I do not think you understood what I was getting at. The cap only limits over achievers and is unrelated too any burden on less skilled players who are in no way affected by my point. I have repeated stressed to DE that if a cap was meant to limit or control balance of 'potential plat earning items such as catalyst' that a prestige level be added and 10,000 xp would earn 5 nw credit . As players we do not know when to expect the limit as we have been 'taught' that they will retroactively rewarded them as they have done in the past. The point here being, there is concern that it will not happen. I speak nothing of carry over credit. It was made clear that it will not carryover and I think thst is how it should be. I am not sure how my wording made you think I was speaking for the community and in a way that didnt support my thoughts. If you want to clarify or discuss something further, feel free to message me directly. I like talking about warframe and I like understanding other peoples point of views and perhaps ehy  they have them.

[Her_Lovely_Tentacles]

Tenet Diplos feels like it keeps jamming.
I initially wasn't even sure whether to write it as feedback or as a bug report. Whenever the auto-aim feature kicks in, it just stops firing. The way it currently works is much more of a nuisance than a benefit.
To make it not feel as negative and make it actually useful, it should be able to keep firing while locked on.

Also, it feels counter-intuitive that in order to aim manually, you have to use hip-fire (which is bad for manual aiming)
Maybe swap it around, have it lock on in hip fire instead, and use the secondary fire button to clear your targets. Or use secondary fire to actually fire with auto aim.

Another point is that instead of spending time for the lock on, I can just fire directly at the enemy.
I have my sights already on the enemy, so why wait for the lock on? It should be much more fluidly integrated. Have it have a much bigger lock-on radius than just the small point of your reticle, and have it work while already firing.

All considered, the auto aim just feels too intrusive and not actually useful at all.
Don't get me wrong, the weapon has a ton of potential and absolutely fantastic stats, I just think that the unique mechanics should enhance the experience rather than sour it.

 

[Bakahung]

After some hunting , here is some more feedback , as I already post some before.

 

And this time is about Liches/Sisters handle large burst damage

By my testing sand experience , it seems when they receive a giant damage , the number will be severely reduced to just a fraction of it , and I assumed this is to prevent Voidrig to destroy them , since this is mentioned in official post .

This is good and all , and I also don't wish for a supposedly epic boss battle to be trivialIze , it did hurt certain play style .

The ones I'm talking about here are frames designed to do large burst of damage , mainly Banshee with a sniper , but also some other guns and more.

Those play style are best at dealing with one powerful foe , which Liches/Sisters are , but those changes basically removed their chance to shine , leaving player with limited choice.

Though it seems to be necessary evil , I still hope there can be a middle ground between .

I believe you all already do fair amount of test , and decided this is the best option , so I won't give suggestion on this topic , simply wish you can reconsidered this choice again.

Still  , thanks for all the hard works you put in this game , they are really fun.

[MCNacho]

Am 25.7.2021 um 08:27 schrieb XiaoLohz:

Tenet melee weapons need to play Void Storm mission and farm holokeys ,but RNG make it need to use many hours to get that keys ,and there still one more RNG things in Ergo Glast to get elements and  power buff.

REALLY bad game playing feels in this situations.

If can change to be 100% percents to get the key ,but for 2~6 or more keys. other drops(like Sevagoth parts etc.) set to  Ergo Glast's market and make it can be get by holokeys.

I think it will be more fun in warframe. please hotfix

 

 

totally for it

 

 

the grind for it is just really abnormal. i grind some stuff and can live with it that some things take longer, but the design with the void storms and the mission rewards is really unbelievable. the hardest thing i had ever seen in warframe. even getting the braton vandal was more pleasant.

[Crashguide]

Now that I hunted some of the Sisters, there are some points that I think are note worthy.

1. - Getting the Sister:

• The Fight with the Specters is a little dull and the timer makes it even less interesting, because everything has to go fast so you don't take time to take the Landscape or to enjoy the scene.
  In addition nobody brothers to rescue the solaris people because of the time cage. 
  If you go as a team of players, then the +25 kills make it a lot harder for me and my casual gamer friends to get a Sister because we have to kill so many more Specters that it fails most of the time. Where if you go alone it works for most of us most of the Time. But I play the game to play with friends and not to play alone. So please consider to reduce the bonus amount of specters that have to be killed for every additional player.
• The Time Sisters have to be finish. I had it more than once that the sister dies after being downed, before I had the time to go there (sometimes because of the capture target, sometimes because of CC, sometimes because I did not realized she was already being down). It would be nice to give them a lot more bleedout Time.

 

2. - I like them a lot and I very much like the display of the Warframe heads. Could you please make it possible that the Hounds of the Sisters that you vanquished would display the Heads after you got them. That would make them far more prestige and I would collect far more of the Hounds in my Arsenal. At the moment I have very little ambition to keep more than one Hound.

3. - The Sisters you Converted lose there Hounds (at least if they are on call, at the moment none of the sisters have come to help when I was down, but that could be because I have a tone of Liches). Why? It was my understanding that they are not as though as Liches are but they lose the Gimmick that helps them with that? I would like it very much if the Converted Sisters could deploy there Hounds. So we could see there unique looks and enjoy what they set apart forme the Liches.

4. - Railjack: please let the Sisters and the Liches be able to do more than only the Defender Job. You have to Farm them and they don't get the totaly overpowered Guns form my Arsenal so they have a much harder Time to actually really defend the Railjack, than any of my other crewmates.

5. - I realy like the Sisters and the bossfight with the Specters but they could all have a little more health so they stand a little longer :)

 

Thanks for your hard work and for the hours of fun I spend with you game. :)

[AreeSoothsayer]

Hound Weapon Mod Feedback

This is the effects I have tested that are non-damage.

Primed Fury = Zero Effect (Means Spoiled Strike will not slow your Hound down either)

Primed Range = Never missed while fighting Osprey, even swipes at air did damage. (Recommended)

Condition Overload = Increased damage per status effect Confirmed.

Healing Return = Healing per hit confirmed, healing increases with more status effects. Abilities don't seem to trigger the healing effect but it appears that the specter hounds gain the effects on their melee attacks.

Shattering Impact = No change to damage while fighting a heavily armored gunner for several minutes.

 

[rstripn]

Please allow cross-progress between Liches and Sisters, i.e. murmur progress and hate gain. This will of course only occur in pre-matched groups such as when friends play together.

[TheLexiConArtist]

4 hours ago, Crashguide said:

In addition nobody brothers to rescue the solaris people because of the time cage. 

Not rescuing Solaris because of time constraints?

The Solaris trapped inside the Granum Void?

...The ones that add a large chunk of bonus time when you do rescue them?

[DarcnyssWolfe]

Just now, TheLexiConArtist said:

Not rescuing Solaris because of time constraints?

The Solaris trapped inside the Granum Void?

...The ones that add a large chunk of bonus time when you do rescue them?

Going solo with a 0 forma hardly modded Xoris, I tend to hit t3 kill count before the original 1min timer, those using other weapons and going strictly for the bare min t1 kill count definitely dont want to wait even longer to get out of the void.

[(XBOX)AarrowOM]

Just finished by first Sister this weekend and have leveled up her hound and am in the process of forma'ing her weapon, so I feel like I can comment now.

 

• Hounds Feedback: As Enemies & Companions

In terms of being enemies, the main issue I had was with it teleporting around (I assume it was damage gating somehow).  As a companion, I think the hound is quite cute, to be perfectly frank. and I wish we could pet it / have it interact with stuff in our orbiters like our other pets.  (I'd be curious to see how it would react to the Helminth.)

 

• Sister Tenet Weapons

Lucked out with my first weapon being a tenet arca plasmor.  I'm only 1 forma into it, but it's already doing more damage than my 4 forma one.

 

• Murmur Reduction

MUCH appreciated.  But every lich (and the single sister) seemed to spawn earlier when unlocking the first word leading me to ignore them rather than completely blind guess.  I suppose that's a balance thing in that they drop more whispers if you fail, but that also levels them up, so to each their own?

 

• New Requiem Mod Oull

Haven't used one yet, but I like the idea of it.

 

• Parazon Rework

Haven't noticed anything rework-y, though it does seem like it takes longer for the Modify Parazon menu to open either through the Lich/Sister menu or from the armory directly.

 

• New Kuva Lich Showdown Flow

I like the new Railjack showdowns, actually.  It's a bit of a hassle if you don't matchmake (my RJ is squishy), but the showdown is honestly easier (thanks to necramechs!).  While it's not a Lich thing, I did notice that it took several attempts to successfully complete a Sister showdown in a group after things glitched (the kill 3 shielding hounds condition failed after only 2 spawned or were otherwise accessible).

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

If you must have Liches/Sisters have Adaptation DR, then for the love of god, Remove them from having the possibility of spawning in Defenses/Survivals. You can still get Murmurs there, but a Lich/Sister should NEVER show up there unless you want to give players a headache. For example, any Radiation Lich/Sister weapon instantly jeopardizes the whole bloody mission, purely because if the player gets radiation procced, odds are that the Defense target will die before they know what they are doing(looking primarily at Mesa Mains including myself), Then for Survivals, ohohoho. The player just has to pray to RNGesus that the dumb Lich/Sister doesn't immediately run the opposite direction of a life support capsule and put themselves in a spawn zone for enemies that happens to be a multi-layered corner corridor. If that happens and your Lich/Sister is lvl 5? You may as well just abort mission and try again, hoping for a different pathing route next time.

In other words, the Liches/Sisters spawning in these nodes make it an extreme hassle to get anything done. Besides, I don't think of one of my friends/clanmates who have ever said "oh goodie! Now I can kill my Lich/Sister and not worry about the thing keeping us alive."

 

[Endorphinz]

I'll put in my 2 cents and say that corrupted holokeys are definitely a big pain right now, I can't stand farming them. With each void storm granting only a CHANCE to reward the keys, not even guaranteed, which is a guaranteed waste of time for unlucky farmers.

I have problems with void storms themselves. Railjack missions aren't the most enjoyable to farm. The missions are long with multiple objectives. On top of all that, the constant random damage from little annoying blobs in the air just adds to the frustration, yeah I just love randomly having my health drained while I'm scrambling through objectives. Playing hacker hide and seek in the corpus railjack missions is especially a pain, I loathe those objectives so much. My frustration when being faced with farming holokeys in the current iteration just makes me unwilling to go forth with it.

[Xolgys]

the tenet diplos's alt fire is awefully weak and more of a waste of ammo than anything right now. why would anyone use it considering its a huge drop in dps. it is very slow compared to the primary and basically prevents the primary fire for a considerable amount of time whilst also wasting ammo.

also it is not reliable to shoot high in hopes it will headshot which means it suffers a similar issue like the cyanex: it cannot realiably make use of the headshot multiplier. in this case the primary fire of course can do so but that means the alt fire has to compete against that too, meaning it really needs to deal a lot more damage with the alternate fire.

the homing is nice but it is really not too great of a feature in the grand scheme of things when the damage does not suffice in the slightest. shooting with the primary fire usually does the job faster and reliable, contrary to the homing burst. theres no reason to pay for the homing property with extra ammo cost since right now it only poses a downside.

to justify the firing delay, the ammo cost and the lack of reliable headshots it should deal at least 4 times its current base damage with the alt fire in my opinion. i would even go as far as to bump the status chance up too so that the alt fire also makes up for the lower firing frequency with a higher base status chance. with a higher base damage crits would multiply a higher base so these are fine.

we have many akimbo automatic secondaries so the special part about this weapon is the alternate fire. reloading whilst holstered is nice for sure but what makes it unique is the alt fire really. in my opinion it should be worth using and not pose a waste of ammo.

 

[Her_Lovely_Tentacles]

Compared to Liches who drop Kuva whenever they are stabbed, it is extremely underwhelming that Sisters just drop Credits. Corrupted Holokeys would be much more fitting and interesting.

[JHarlequin]

 My sister has been showing up far too early and this most recent match had her stay around indefinitely.  We downed her about 10 times before we just ignored her and finished the mission.  She is supposed to disappear after three if she doesn't get stabbed.

 But because she was around wasting time, the group had to miss out on any more hounds because they don't spawn unless she spawns them while she is there.  As much as I don't want to get in the way of other people, betting on getting a level 5 sister before I know the second requiem seems like crap that shouldn't rain down on anyone.

 I usually want to stab as early and as often as possible but for the last ten or so sisters, the murmurs just aren't adding up and I am seeing her in the mission usually only as I complete the first requiem and often have her at level three before I have the second requiem.  It is starting to make it far to annoying to deal with because now I have become the person that refuses to stab because the timing is wrong.

 When it is my first influence mission after getting the sister and she shows up before the first hound.  I feel like something is going wrong and I also get annoyed that I have to disappoint everyone else and say, "No way".

[Malikaith]

Valkyr needs rework bad

TYPE: In game
DESCRIPTION: Valkyr's exalted weapons do way less damage then any decent melee weapon. Their attack range and animations also suck, and that's a big deal.
REPRODUCTION: Just play the class
EXPECTED RESULT: To have a frame that has more then one usable ability
OBSERVED RESULT: The frame only has one usable ability
REPRODUCTION RATE: 100%

[roors99]

• Hounds Feedback: As Enemies & Companions
  • As enemies they feel good to fight with impactful abilities. As companions, aside from Null Audit their unique precepts aren't very impactful.
• Sister Tenet Weapons
  • I've tried all but the Exec, Agendus, and Diplos by now and I've enjoyed most of them: the exception being the Livia. Wise Razor as a stance simply feels terrible: Cut Thrice has no inherent movement yet it is the hold forward combo, the final hit of Threshing Grain is movement on a combo that requires you to not move forward, and the first hit of Calling Thunder knocks enemies away and lifts them ensuring the second hit's lunge is difficult to hit. This isn't exactly related to the weapon though.
• Murmur Reduction
  • An excellent change.
• New Requiem Mod Oull
  • Oull is also great and allows for some significant tactical choices in selecting Requiem order.
• Parazon Rework
  • It's much easier to actually perform a Parazon finisher now, which is good. The mods aren't great though, and some of them like Malicious Code and Power Drain are ambiguous about if they trigger on hack or on mercy.
• New Kuva Lich Showdown Flow
  • It's nice to see the fight in Railjack like was shown at Tennocon 2019, but there's a few things that bug me.
  • Firstly, the Lich/Sister just pops out of existence once the correct kill phrase is used: I'd like to see a teleport animation instead, possibly with voice work about their fleeing.
  • Secondly, it feels strange getting the correct kill phrase, then the Lich/Sister runs away and you kill them later. My suggestion is that the Lich manages to dodge the last attempted stab, but with a different, more fearful animation than when attempting a wrong requiem. Then, during the final showdown, have that be when the final word is delivered via stab.
  • Thirdly, the locations that Sisters are fought in seem inappropriate for a boss arena: the corridor room with the window at the back feels just like a random stairwell and not a final stand. The Sergeant boss also shares these locations.
  • Fourthly, Sister VO still plays when exiting the ship to return to the Railjack when they are dead/converted, but that's something for the bug report forums.

[vizix]

Holy christ whatever damage reduction calculation is being used for Liches is absolutely absurd! It's NOT fun to engage with, and forces me to bring Banshee to bypass this absurd resistance. Please fix.

[addamrobin2]

did 3x 20 minute survival void storm

3 holokeys

0 sevagoth parts

0 ambassador parts

and you want people to grind for 120 keys for rng element melee?

 

[(PSN)PheonixFontaine]

Railjack Corpus Survival for Ambassador. Always on Rotation C rewards. (Survival gives rotation rewards based on an AABCAABC model, 4 rotations per cycle, pulling from table A, then A, then B, then C and repeat.)

8.33% chance for each part (Venus/Neptune/Pluto) means 12-13 expected runs each. (3 parts)

16.67% chance for blueprint (Veil) means 5-6 expected runs.

Specifically, this means 20 minutes for a chance, and compounded with expected runs totals to almost 14-16 hours of Railjack Survivals. (This only counts the time spent actually in the Survival. It doesn't count loading, side-objectives, breaks for bathroom, etc.) This is the "expected" average, meaning RNG can make it take as long as it wants, upwards of almost 4x this. Same for many tables in-game.

 

The composite issue with rewards is exactly this. Time invested is not rewarding based on raw numbers. I can do the Ambassador farm for 16 hours and not be rewarded by my effort with my target. Railjack is already pushing the time you spend in a mission upwards with extra steps. Each extra step while more diversified and interesting is not more rewarding.

These tables are heavily muddied by Endo inclusion. On Venus Railjack Survival for example is a 33.33% chance for 150 End of or Rotation C. Also on this table are Railjack parts, which convert into 75 Endo (Mk I). This is an additional 37.5% chance approximately for a total of 70.8% chance on rotation C of Venus for Endo-based rewards since more often you're scrapping them. This tracks poorly.

 

TL;DR: Survivals RNG says it's about a 70.8% chance of an Endo reward for Rot C and it takes an average of 14-16 hours of trying to get the Ambassador.

[TheAmishCurse]

I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere in this massive thread but can we PLEASE have a way to get rid of hounds without having to level them, and guild them just in order to clear out my foundry? They come pre built, can't be sold, and MUST be redeemed. Well I had to cosign some older Kubrows just to claim this hound I have already mastered before, only to find out now that I have to level him AGAIN, and guild him AGAIN, just to cosign him before I can claim another hound which easily could be, yet again, another of the same hound. This needs to be addressed because this either does 1 of 3 things; forces me to cosign previous companions just so I can clear my foundry, forces me to constantly have something pending in my foundry, bloating my UI, making it harder to tell when things I'm actually waiting for are finished, and overall bugs the crap out of me, or it forces me to repeatedly level, spend bonds, and cosign a companion for literally no gain when the only way to level it is to leech off other players or spend an eternity letting it get kills.

Just let us at the very least claim it and sell it like a robotic or cosign it like a kubrow/kavat. It should not be treated as a Moa that needs to be guilded to be cosigned given we have zero autonomy over it appearing in our foundry outside of just ignoring 75% of the new content added to the game

[DarcnyssWolfe]

36 minutes ago, TheAmishCurse said:

Just let us at the very least claim it and sell it like a robotic or cosign it like a kubrow/kavat. 

I was able to claim a couple hounds and then sell them in the inventory screen under the compaions? tab. Same way I sell the yearly dupes of the dex weapons I get.

[Sojufueled]

A general thing about liches. Can you make it so they level up regardless of whether you parazon them? That would nip some trouble behavior in the bud.

[(PSN)palebluelight]

So in fighting more sisters something that needs to be implemented is that the sister will not spawn until after you extract from the mission in which you complete your first murmur. It’s really not fair for her to be spawned just because I unlocked a word during the same mission. It’s like giving them a free level needs to be kept from happening. 

[formaBroother]

11 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Railjack Corpus Survival for Ambassador. Always on Rotation C rewards. (Survival gives rotation rewards based on an AABCAABC model, 4 rotations per cycle, pulling from table A, then A, then B, then C and repeat.)

8.33% chance for each part (Venus/Neptune/Pluto) means 12-13 expected runs each. (3 parts)

16.67% chance for blueprint (Veil) means 5-6 expected runs.

Specifically, this means 20 minutes for a chance, and compounded with expected runs totals to almost 14-16 hours of Railjack Survivals. (This only counts the time spent actually in the Survival. It doesn't count loading, side-objectives, breaks for bathroom, etc.) This is the "expected" average, meaning RNG can make it take as long as it wants, upwards of almost 4x this. Same for many tables in-game.

 

The composite issue with rewards is exactly this. Time invested is not rewarding based on raw numbers. I can do the Ambassador farm for 16 hours and not be rewarded by my effort with my target. Railjack is already pushing the time you spend in a mission upwards with extra steps. Each extra step while more diversified and interesting is not more rewarding.

These tables are heavily muddied by Endo inclusion. On Venus Railjack Survival for example is a 33.33% chance for 150 End of or Rotation C. Also on this table are Railjack parts, which convert into 75 Endo (Mk I). This is an additional 37.5% chance approximately for a total of 70.8% chance on rotation C of Venus for Endo-based rewards since more often you're scrapping them. This tracks poorly.

 

TL;DR: Survivals RNG says it's about a 70.8% chance of an Endo reward for Rot C and it takes an average of 14-16 hours of trying to get the Ambassador.

And on top of this those 14-16 hours are wasted besides the rare drops you are going for because:
a) The resource drop rates are very low due to how vanilla the endless missions are
b) The only way to buff the mission is to wait for a void storm survival where you can at least crack a relic every 5 minutes

That is also not even talking about how the void traces are broken in railjack survival and you do not get any more after the first rotation and the fact that
railjack survival still maintains old survival mechanics wherein the whole squad is forced to leave together i.e. either crack relics solo or you must find a dedicated squad to go on 14-16 hours of missions with

I think the introduction of Steel Path railjack nodes would help alleviate this somewhat but the bugs associated with it still are a huge bummer. Oh and also you get those magical invisible and immune moas that shoot you forever.