Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[sam686]

There are multiple problems trying to start Sister of Parvos in multiplayer squad.

Problem 1: 4 Players all entered Granum void requires 100 kills to spawn only 1 sister. I was hoping for 4 sisters in 1 mission.

Problem 2: After Granum void with enough kills completed, there are 2 red markers. Both red. One for crown enemy and the other for sister. Causes confusion.

Problem 3: Sister too far away and disappears/despawn way too soon. Also, Sister will disappear while too far away in at fast as 20 seconds.

Problem 4: Sister fails to spawn if entered Granum void too close to extraction. Worst, this is sometimes the only location to enter Granum void with no terminals elsewhere in one mission.

Problem 5: A player in multiplayer squad who already have Lich/Sister, can instantly kill the new Sister and make it disappear. This can prevent other players to begin the Lich or sister in multiplayer squad.

The Lich/Sister Railjack mission: Cannot join friends asking for help to defeat the Railjack Lich/Sister mission saying it requires your Lich/Sister at the Railjack.

Most of this have made trying to help others start or finish Lich/Sister very difficult.

Bad multiplayer design to start Sister of Parvos. But once it is started then multiplayer is mostly ok.

[ZeButShark]

For some reason, after i got my Sister the qudio suddenly became very weird, my Tenora Prime sounded like a Supra or other corpus guns, all transmissions and mission control messages became very quiet and all the other sounds seemed to play as if underwater or muffled

[Proboscis]

Can we do something about the massive number of people that don't stab their Lich/Sister and just waste everyone's time? It should gain 2 levels if you don't stab, or remove personal murmur progress, or something. One or multiple guys punishing everyone else on their squad by avoiding a game mechanic is really stinky. EDIT: At the very least, give everyone else on the squad more progress if one guy decides not to engage with the system. The only reason I'd run squads is to get more murmur progress, but if someone wastes my time by not stabbing or telling me to IGNORE HIS SISTER and complete the mission, I'm better off going solo.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

On 2021-08-12 at 12:25 PM, houselyrander said:

Just tried to get a Sister and she... left. I was able to just BARELY engage her for a few seconds before she despawned. She didn't get downed, she just chickened out and disappeared after less than a minute. WHY?!?

They're still based on the treasurer mechanic which is like a mini capture target.  They will run off when they see you and after a set time they teleport away. They should come at you like the kuva larvlings do. 

[Slayer-.]

15 hours ago, Proboscis said:

Can we do something about the massive number of people that don't stab their Lich/Sister and just waste everyone's time? It should gain 2 levels if you don't stab, or remove personal murmur progress, or something. One or multiple guys punishing everyone else on their squad by avoiding a game mechanic is really stinky. ^{_{EDIT: At the very least, give everyone else on the squad more progress if one guy decides not to engage with the system. The only reason I'd run squads is to get more murmur progress, but if someone wastes my time by not stabbing or telling me to IGNORE HIS SISTER and complete the mission,}} I'm better off going solo.

That's a stinky idea full stop, when I solo I use tactics for the murmurs to get it to pop at the right time, if your idea went live it would penalize too many players.

The Sisters are good to fight just go solo with them, then you'll avoid the agro some players seem to have given you, I know it's frustrating but what can you do.

Maybe if someone doesn't stab their Lich within 30 seconds or something and it's being ignored maybe spawn in someone else's Lich.

[Proboscis]

9 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

That's a stinky idea full stop, when I solo I use tactics for the murmurs to get it to pop at the right time, if your idea went live it would penalize too many players.

The Sisters are good to fight just go solo with them, then you'll avoid the agro some players seem to have given you, I know it's frustrating but what can you do.

Maybe if someone doesn't stab their Lich within 30 seconds or something and it's being ignored maybe spawn in someone else's Lich.

People should be penalized for not doing the mechanics and inconveniencing/trolling other players. Apparently it's a hot take these days that devs should punish people for doing something wrong. It generated this severely entitled group of players that expect other people to take a loss for them just because they're either lazy or their weapons are too weak. I told someone that he was wasting other people's time, and his response was literally "so? I don't care about them". How is that not an incredibly toxic atmosphere that should be nipped?

[JHarlequin]

49 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

People should be penalized for not doing the mechanics and inconveniencing/trolling other players. Apparently it's a hot take these days that devs should punish people for doing something wrong. It generated this severely entitled group of players that expect other people to take a loss for them just because they're either lazy or their weapons are too weak. I told someone that he was wasting other people's time, and his response was literally "so? I don't care about them". How is that not an incredibly toxic atmosphere that should be nipped?

 I have been the person wondering why someone absolutely refuses to stab, and until sisters, it was usually people saying "I don't have the mods."  Which made me wonder why they were bothering.

 When sisters came out, the first twenty I did, I always had at knowledge of the first requiem before I saw her, so I was very willing to stab.  Since about that number, I have done about fourteen more, of which eight showed up in the first influence mission after getting the sister.  Several of which showed up even before I had gotten a single murmur towards learning requiems.  But this seems to be an extreme case.

 I generally do not like avoiding stabbing, but with the spawn happening way too early way too often, I am fully willing to just gun down the sister and send her away because there is no drawback other than time taken.  The problem is that it is slowing down other players, but when the game doesn't treat a player right, the minor inconvenience echoes out to other players on the mission.

 If the sister would stop showing up too soon, then I would gladly accept that if a sister is sent away without being stabbed, then they should level anyway.  If we can have an appropriate chance to be prepared, then we should be required to take the opportunity to stab the sister or lich because that is exactly why we are there.  But until we are sure that they won't spawn in the first mission, then they just can't put in a drawback like leveling the sister or lich when they don't get stabbed.

[Slayer-.]

 

14 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

That's a stinky idea full stop, when I solo I use tactics for the murmurs to get it to pop at the right time, if your idea went live it would penalize too many players.

The Sisters are good to fight just go solo with them, then you'll avoid the agro some players seem to have given you, I know it's frustrating but what can you do.

Maybe if someone doesn't stab their Lich within 30 seconds or something and it's being ignored maybe spawn in someone else's Lich.

 

5 hours ago, Proboscis said:

People should be penalized for not doing the mechanics and inconveniencing/trolling other players. Apparently it's a hot take these days that devs should punish people for doing something wrong. It generated this severely entitled group of players that expect other people to take a loss for them just because they're either lazy or their weapons are too weak. I told someone that he was wasting other people's time, and his response was literally "so? I don't care about them". How is that not an incredibly toxic atmosphere that should be nipped?

Why should players playing solo or useing tactics with Lich's turning up way to early be penalized by a Lich automatically leveling up.

If you feel that strong about it do the Lich's solo, only time I do a Lich in CO-OP is with the Clan mate to help him, I'm sick and tired of ideas that sometimes make it to DE that effect normal players, think up a more logical idea that doesn't punish legit players please, we know pub squads can be the scourge of this game for any number of reasons.

Please do not take this post as an attack on you, I'm just pointing out how frustrating it can be for you and for legit players.

[Proboscis]

On 2021-08-14 at 11:44 PM, Slayer-. said:

 

 

Why should players playing solo or useing tactics with Lich's turning up way to early be penalized by a Lich automatically leveling up.

If you feel that strong about it do the Lich's solo, only time I do a Lich in CO-OP is with the Clan mate to help him, I'm sick and tired of ideas that sometimes make it to DE that effect normal players, think up a more logical idea that doesn't punish legit players please, we know pub squads can be the scourge of this game for any number of reasons.

Please do not take this post as an attack on you, I'm just pointing out how frustrating it can be for you and for legit players.

All of the arguments I've seen directed back at me are just as easily refuted by saying exactly what you told me right back at you.

PLAY SOLO. Take your time, and don't waste others' time. Also, a dev shouldn't be afraid to penalize people for doing a mechanic the wrong way. If someone doesn't like their sister showing up too early, they should PLAY SOLO if they're not going to stab it. Just like I SOLO all my level 1 nodes now just to avoid people that think wasting my time is a valid mechanic.

Bottom line, they should still level up whether you stab or not, because they're still surviving and escaping an encounter with you. I'm just more willing to vouch for a nuclear approach to it because of the amount of people that have told me that Liches and Sisters are too hard, their weapons are too bad, they have no requiem mods, or etc. etc... and then still run the nodes. You'd think that the first thing you'd do before trying the entire system is get ready for it, but apparently not.

[TheLexiConArtist]

4 hours ago, Proboscis said:

All of the arguments I've seen directed back at me are just as easily refuted by saying exactly what you told me right back at you.

PLAY SOLO. Take your time, and don't waste others' time. Also, a dev shouldn't be afraid to penalize people for doing a mechanic the wrong way. If someone doesn't like their sister showing up too early, they should PLAY SOLO if they're not going to stab it. Just like I SOLO all my level 1 nodes now just to avoid people that think wasting my time is a valid mechanic.

Not stabbing your adversary and having them retreat after 3 kneels is a valid option that's been made available by the devs. It's not 'doing a mechanic wrong' when they explicitly added in the part where the adversary actually leaves. Nor does it make sense from a lore or gameplay standpoint to make your enemy stronger (or risk doing so) by your own actions unless you're prepared to do so.

We have no way of knowing how many of the squad's adversaries could show up in any given mission, either. Even max-angry Sisters can skip a run if the RNG decides.

Ultimately, being in a squad is nothing but advantageous to Murmur acquisition (and possibly the actual spawn odds of the adversary) so all those 'wastes of time' are doing is making it return slightly closer to a solo-run experience. So no, you shouldn't punish that player for choosing not to stab. Nor should they be obliged to solo.

 

You don't have any more right to control what they do or do not do (including whether they stab and if they play public at all). To play solo is a decision you may only make for yourself.

[Slayer-.]

5 hours ago, Proboscis said:

All of the arguments I've seen directed back at me are just as easily refuted by saying exactly what you told me right back at you.

PLAY SOLO. Take your time, and don't waste others' time. Also, a dev shouldn't be afraid to penalize people for doing a mechanic the wrong way. If someone doesn't like their sister showing up too early, they should PLAY SOLO if they're not going to stab it. Just like I SOLO all my level 1 nodes now just to avoid people that think wasting my time is a valid mechanic.

Bottom line, they should still level up whether you stab or not, because they're still surviving and escaping an encounter with you. I'm just more willing to vouch for a nuclear approach to it because of the amount of people that have told me that Liches and Sisters are too hard, their weapons are too bad, they have no requiem mods, or etc. etc... and then still run the nodes. You'd think that the first thing you'd do before trying the entire system is get ready for it, but apparently not.

No they should not level up.

Great comeback play solo, I choose to play solo because I then don't have to put up with players like you coming to the forums and complaining about tactics. If you want to play pub squads then put up with what is dealt your way, don't get on the forums complaining about it, to me you seem to want it 'your way or the highway'

21 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Not stabbing your adversary and having them retreat after 3 kneels is a valid option that's been made available by the devs. It's not 'doing a mechanic wrong' when they explicitly added in the part where the adversary actually leaves. Nor does it make sense from a lore or gameplay standpoint to make your enemy stronger (or risk doing so) by your own actions unless you're prepared to do so.

We have no way of knowing how many of the squad's adversaries could show up in any given mission, either. Even max-angry Sisters can skip a run if the RNG decides.

Ultimately, being in a squad is nothing but advantageous to Murmur acquisition (and possibly the actual spawn odds of the adversary) so all those 'wastes of time' are doing is making it return slightly closer to a solo-run experience. So no, you shouldn't punish that player for choosing not to stab. Nor should they be obliged to solo.

 

You don't have any more right to control what they do or do not do (including whether they stab and if they play public at all). To play solo is a decision you may only make for yourself.

Well said.

[TheLexiConArtist]

4 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Great comeback play solo, I choose to play solo because I then don't have to put up with players like you coming to the forums and complaining about tactics. If you want to play pub squads then put up with what is dealt your way, don't get on the forums complaining about it, to me you seem to want it 'your way or the highway'

I have to point out that making complaints for bad influences in public matchmaking is not forbidden.

There can be issues that have legitimate weight to them, and which you shouldn't have to play solo to avoid, either. But the onus isn't on the other players, it's on flaws in the design.

As an example, my own long-standing issue with intrusive ally 'buffs' (Volt's Speed, mostly) is not illegitimate, I shouldn't be forced to solo to have my controls not messed up by 'friendly' influences - and I can't solo relics without losing value, which is when I have to deal with that problem. It's not the other person's fault for using their ability either. The game just doesn't provide me with adequate agency to refuse that influence. Opt-out needs to be preventative; needing to backflip every 5 seconds is not a solution.

 

However, that doesn't really apply in this 'issue' because it's just moaning that arbitrary benefits which exist just for being in a squad are being made slightly less beneficial than they might otherwise be.

[Slayer-.]

1 hour ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

I have to point out that making complaints for bad influences in public matchmaking is not forbidden.

There can be issues that have legitimate weight to them, and which you shouldn't have to play solo to avoid, either. But the onus isn't on the other players, it's on flaws in the design.

As an example, my own long-standing issue with intrusive ally 'buffs' (Volt's Speed, mostly) is not illegitimate, I shouldn't be forced to solo to have my controls not messed up by 'friendly' influences - and I can't solo relics without losing value, which is when I have to deal with that problem. It's not the other person's fault for using their ability either. The game just doesn't provide me with adequate agency to refuse that influence. Opt-out needs to be preventative; needing to backflip every 5 seconds is not a solution.

 

However, that doesn't really apply in this 'issue' because it's just moaning that arbitrary benefits which exist just for being in a squad are being made slightly less beneficial than they might otherwise be.

True.

At least Limbo's rift is easier to get out of than Volts speed, though I've never tried to get out of Volts, I think I just forget each time though tbh.

[Jitsuryoku]

Tenet Exec gimmick harms the weapon rather than giving it a fun quirk. The explosions on slams do like 60 damage on a fully built weapon, which means they cannot kill anything, not even at low level enemies. Explosions also push stuff away, in all directions making it harder to kill.
 

[Mic.ph]

Hey DE,

Here's a returning player's feedback about the new boss showdown flow for Kuva Liches and Sisters of Parvos:

Quote

New ["Boss"] Showdown Flow

Do you and your Squad have what it takes to beat your ["Boss"] Showdown?
. . .
Between reducing the required Murmurs, adding OULL, adding Requiem Ultimatums, and having this new flow, we have shortened the ["Boss"] cycle and added more control for all Tenno! The final fight is now on your terms, and we hope you enjoy the efforts to improve and simplify this system!

Cool

• weaken Kuva Lich or Parvos Sister boss > final, guaranteed boss showdown
• showdown node matchmake for "players with weakened bosses"
• one-by-one boss showdown for each "player with weakened boss"

Not Cool

• require each player in squad to have a weakened boss to join the final showdown
  • the old boss flow allows any player - with or without active liches - to experience the old final showdown, as long as at least one player in squad has an active lich and the correct mod sequence

Improvement Suggestion/s

• do not require each player in squad to have a weakened boss to start/matchmake the final showdown
  • this is to encourage forming showdown squads that are both new player- and returning player-friendly
  • like in the old boss flow, this also allows both new and returning players to "get a feel" of the showdown first-hand to help decide getting a boss now or getting a boss later
• e.g.
  • only one "player with weakened boss" in squad is required to start/matchmake the final showdown
    • only "players with weakened bosses" in squad can start/matchmake the final showdown
      • showdown node is visible for "players with weakened bosses"
    • "players without weakened bosses" in squad cannot start/matchmake the final showdown
      • showdown node is hidden for "players without weakened bosses"
    • P.S. (more detailed example)
      • a "player with weakened boss" starts/matchmake the showdown node
        • if solo, start a new instance or matchmake with a squad with an open slot; then update the boss count
        • if in a pre-formed squad, bring every player in squad - with or without a weakened boss - to a new instance or matchmake with another squad with enough open slots; then update the boss count
  • one-by-one boss count depends on the number of "players with weakened bosses" in a pre-formed or matchmade squad

 

Generally, if it's cool in the old, why make it not cool in the new?
Best to simply carry over the cool from the old to the new, when appropriate.

✌️

[Guybrush88]

I've downed more than 20 candidates but keep repeating the same 4 weapons:

- tenet flux rifle

- tenet tetra

- tenet cycron

- tenet envoy

[sunderthefirmament]

2 hours ago, Guybrush88 said:

I've downed more than 20 candidates but keep repeating the same 4 weapons:

- tenet flux rifle

- tenet tetra

- tenet cycron

- tenet envoy

DE has heard our complaints about this, but has offered no indication that they'll change the system.  It seems that allowing us to trade sisters/liches is sufficient, at least from their perspective.  That's how I'm reading their lack of response, despite how frequently this complaint shows up.

[Guybrush88]

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

DE has heard our complaints about this, but has offered no indication that they'll change the system.  It seems that allowing us to trade sisters/liches is sufficient, at least from their perspective.  That's how I'm reading their lack of response, despite how frequently this complaint shows up.

I dont know if it made a difference or its just a coincidence, but I got the Tenet Arca Plasmor on my first try after I switched from Skyresh to -> Hydra