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Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)


[DE]CoreyOnline
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Just now, TerribleDamage said:

Why is Kuva Lich so impenetrable now? like all the mobs in this location? (in the simulacrum everything is ok, in normal missions everything is ok) my Mesa Prime hits ordinary mobs instead of 10k per shot - 1k. As for the lich: why does Mesa hit him for 20 damage? A Stropha using a heavy attack - hits 200 damage (orange crit), Balla + Mirage (+ 700% damage) - does not damage Kuva Lich at all. This is normal? 

If you're talking about in the final showdown in the Railjack mission, they tweaked it to make it not over in a few seconds.

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Posted (edited)

It's disappointing that you ignored the common feedback that was frequently posted prior to the Sister's release saying, in short: we need a way to just pick what weapon the Lich/Sister will have.

Having to earn a Zenith Granum Crown, complete a mission that's on the Corpus Ship Tileset (a limited selection), complete the Granum Void minigame on Nightmare difficulty, then go back and kill the Treasurer (because the Candidate won't spawn until he's gone), then finally get to kill the Candidate, is an embarrassingly long gameplay loop for something that's still RNG and using a limited resource. You have to repeat this every time the Candidate doesn't have the weapon you want. The first time I tried doing this I did a Pluto Exterminate and it took me 9 minutes just to get a Candidate with a weapon I didn't want. Then I tried a Capture mission on Phobos to make it faster and still having to do the Granum Void minigame pushes it to about 5 minutes each time. Consider that you have to repeat this every time the Candidate doesn't have what you want (and add in any time you have to go back and get Zenith crowns from Neptune/Pluto) and you have hours of your life wasted before you even get to begin fighting the Sister. Now shudder thinking about trying to Valence Fusion that weapon in the future.

As others have stated, this was "fine" when we just had Kuva Liches and a limited weapon pool, and all you had to do was speedrun Cassini. No minigames, just 1 minute missions. Now we have 19 Kuva weapons for Liches and the aforementioned problem with Sisters even with them only having 8 weapons. Minutes turn into hours.

I posted an idea for remedying this in one of the feedback threads on the subject a month ago:

Basically, if you already own something like, as an example, Hek, and you go to stab a Larvling, there is a 100% chance for them to have Kuva Hek. This serves three purposes:

  • Removes the RNG grind involved in simply picking which weapon you want your Lich to have (while still allowing RNG as an option).
  • Makes it so that you still have to put in some work to get that 100% chance (some weapons can be challenging to build) and rewards players for doing so.
  • Allows the "base" weapon to still have a purpose, since after upgraded Kuva/Tenet variants come out they often get completely invalidated and most players will just ignore building them if they're not farming mastery points.

In regards to "unique" weapons like Tenet Envoy, this would be determined by "weapon type" rather than exact weapon. So for example, wielding a "launcher" type weapon like the Ogris would affect the Larvling/Candidate instead. In the case of that being multiple weapons, it would still reduce the weapon pool to just those weapons which is still a huge improvement.

You've touted Lich QoL updates in this update, and some of them like reducing the murmurs needed, making Liches a guaranteed spawn, and the "wildcard" requiem are good changes, but you've missed the most important QoL update involving simply getting started with your Lich/Sister.

Edited by Fireshock
Fixed broken link
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8 минут назад, Cradicias сказал:

If you're talking about in the final showdown in the Railjack mission, they tweaked it to make it not over in a few seconds.

No, I'm talking about what happens even when Kuva Lich has 3 health bars, that is, about simple missions with him. 

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I don't know about the sisters, but Kuva Lich has become very hard. Previously, using the Stropha, I did one blow and it was enough for him. DE wrote about some kind of simplification of Lich farming, I did not see this, instead I see a Boss who kills a warframe with 1 hit and which 3 30th ranks should kill for a minute, or maybe two. At the same time, before I could immediately kill the Lich, and now I still have to fly into space and complete a whole mission there, so what's the simplification, DE? 

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Posted (edited)

This update is a colossal mess. The sisters lich fights are ridiculously convoluted.

Having to pay Zenith tokens for the opportunity for RNG but only if you pass the Nightmare Granum void is really idiotic.

Having to kill your lich to then have to kill it again in a Railjack mission is an insanely ridiculous change - why is this a thing?

Overall this update made me turn the game off.

 

 

Edited by (PSN)Overtkill21
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48 minutes ago, Cradicias said:

Might be a little off topic, but I'm REALLY disliking the way we choose our Lich. Some history to make sure people understand where I'm coming from. When  Liches were originally released it was terrible, because you wouldn't know what weapon you were getting and it was random. They changed it, let you see what you were getting AND they had redundancy protection so that you'd only get a new weapon you hadn't gotten yet. This worked really well.

Flash forward and they added the Valence Transfusion system so we could fuse up our weapons and max out their potential. Fantastic! But, they killed the redundancy system as a necessary part of allowing you to get the weapons again so you can fuse them. So, now with this update, we've added a bunch of new Kuva weapons on top of an already big list. Guess who can't get a Kuva Grattler to save his life but has gotten the Kuva Brakk to pop up like 10 times? THIS GUY!

It'd be really nice if we could get a redundancy blocking system again. Even if it's something as simple as you won't see the same weapon again until you claim a Lich or go through the full rotation of weapons.

 

Starting to think they don't even exist. I've ran into 3 Drakgoons, 3 Stubbs, 5 Brakks, 2 Chukars, 2 Shieldigs, a Bramma and... Pretty sure that's it.

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Hound Companions suffers the same problems of all other companions have.. SURVIVABILITYYou cannot, I repeat, cannot make these new companions survivable high level missions if you don't use a Warframe that has at least more than 740 health and 300 armor. How do we fix this problem? Simple, it's time we kill Link-Mods for good and rework the base companion stats to accomodate this change. Link-Mods caused an unhealthy balance between companon stats and it limits player Warframe choice.

 

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New Kuva Lich Showdown Flow

 

These are occurring on the wrong proximas.  Those proximas have Teir II Railjack drops.  This is disappointing.
I comprehend an accessibility argument but I choose to view difficulty as driving game play rather than an obstacle.

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Now we can't help our friends conquer their lichs?

I solo'd mine yesterday before the update to have room to try for a sister today. Friend got on today so I was going to help him finish his lich off so we can attempt to get Sisters together. However, I can't go to the final confrontation to help him because I don't have a lich of my own.

Not a very nice system change when previously friends could help with the final fight no matter the conditions. He is FORCED to join random groups or play solo because of this. I appreciate the thought of having the final confrontation at your discretion through a dedicated map node. Being locked out friend play where it previously was possible is a massive mood killer after having fun the past hour playing and talking together about what Sister / weapon we would like to get while getting him the whispers to finish off his lich.

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Posted (edited)

Can you not have a lich and a sister at the same time? Tried to get a lich for a while after starting a sister and couldn't get a spawn. Could just be bad luck though.

Edited by JABofNeurospine
Correction due to misunderstanding how the new lich flow works.
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I have a rank 4 Queenpin, made her spawn with the new Requiem Ultimatum playing with my friend. What proceeded was a barrage of enemies spawning especially tons of Nullifiers, spawning faster than Arbitrations enemies can spawn. My Queenpin kept going invisible and refreshing her shields faster than I could take them down, spawning the hound every 10-20 seconds. It was absolute chaos, wasted all our revives, even my mid-range PC was getting slowed down by everything going on. Apparently my friend thought they despawned, because the health bar disappeared from them and when I marked it was frozen in place. Friend and I have no problem duoing Steel Path, Arbitrations, Sorties, etc. This is very reminiscent of Void Storms pre fixes and is very not fun. I can't tell if this was a bug or intended (apart from the health bar disappearing), so I'm leaving this here in Feedback.

For reference on my PC, some quick specs:

MSI MPG B550I Mini ITX MOBO
Ryzen 7 3800X CPU
32GB 2x16 DDR4-3200 CL16 RAM
Asus GeForce RTX 2060 6GB
Corsair RM 750W 80+ Gold PSU

My PC is no slouch and much like my previous problems with Void Storms, very performance degrading. I don't normally experience this in Warframe.

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Halfway between a bug and feedback.

tl;dr Wukong's clone (And I assume any other AI you could hand the Envoy or Diplos to) have absolutely no clue how to fire them.

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So had a blast hunting down my sister today! Only one issue:

 

During the ending showdown, once I have my sister downed and ready to convert or kill, I cannot choose either option as the UI simply does not show up. I tried pressing the hotkey to convert (A) with no luck either. I really want to convert this sister as she's my first VS killing her, so I'm opting to see if this gets tweaked/fixed tomarrow!

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Sister Candidates aren't spawning after a successful Granum Void Zenith run way too often and the fact I need to do this JUST to SEE what weapon I could get is way too much compared to Liches.  

We REALLY need to be able to choose the weapon that spawns or atleast have the lich and sister candidates spawn with 3 options over their heads instead of 1 and we choose from the 3.

The DR at the final showdowns is too ridiculous, I get you don't want the fight to be over quickly but they become bullet sponges now.

Why does the new tennet scythe have worse stats across the board than even Hate. I could understand Reaper Prime but the Tennet Scythe just doesn't compare at all to older scythes.

 

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Just found out that, the frame u use to go in the golden hand will be the one that determine the element of weapon. I mean it is a very bad idea, as golden hand first release, we already know that u need frame like mesa and smtg to kill those specter. It was hard to use other frame to do the golden hand mission, this will not give diversity but just limited a guide to inexplicitly telling player, just use those frame to do this mission but not any other. It was a totally bad idea imo.

I saw someone give an opinion of when u go into a corpus tileset mission like above some level, the parvos specter will spawn in the map, and u need to kill like few to lure out the first thrall. I think this is the best method i found that can change this grind.

If not u will just be like H sister first thrall liching, need mesa and players cant solo the mission with a short time like kuva. For now every attempt take like 5-8 minutes, it is tooooo long. imagine just 10 attempts take u an hour. And still if u want some element like impact or smtg then u need to use those frame that hard to reach the stage 1 reward. and if u fail the token is consume, then wht u got is ntg but press esc to abort mission.

This luring first thrall for parvos really need to be change.

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It saddens me to say this in regards to the Tenet Diplos due to how excited I was for them, but in their current state… they feel and perform *awfully*, especially for such weapons of their “standard”. Maybe if the aim-locked targets could be hit in full-auto without dropping their target lock upon firing, the weapon could actually be fired while aimed roughly towards enemies if a lock wasn’t already acquired, the delay after firing at locked enemies was removed and the weapon could lock onto enemies hen they’d be both functional and fun to use. Two shots to a higher-level enemy is almost pointless, and the forced delay mean that enemies can probably take a full crash course on warframe physiology before proceeded to shoot the player while they can’t fire back. They urgently need some help. ☹️

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Overtkill21 said:

This update is a colossal mess. The sisters lich fights are ridiculously convoluted.

Having to pay Zenith tokens for the opportunity for RNG but only if you pass the Granum void is really idiotic.

Having to kill your lich to then have to kill it again in a Railjack mission is an insanely ridiculous change - why is this a thing?

Overall this update made me turn the game off.

 

 

I like how they neglected to mention that the hour saved on lich grinding would be made up for in a two hour railjack mission.

 

SIGH.

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Posted (edited)

Using Octavia as progenitor gave a radiation weapon, but magnetic abilities for the sister.  Including the lovely shoot once and kill yourself magnetize/polarize combo - it is no fun on malice and is no fun on a sister.

Not sure if deliberate, but hounds are immune to Hildryn's pillage.

Hopefully not for every hound, but their aoe making you go play fetch with your equipped weapon is irksome.

Edited by mbf-wr
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Kuva grattler sucks in comparison to original grattler just cause you increase fire rate doesn't mean you can cut the damage in half its litterally just the same gun but its a side grade and not a upgrade +2% crit chance and status chance doesn't make up for more than 50% base damage cut even with a 60% elemental it's only 50% original power. That's like if someone complained opticor was slow firing and you made a faster firing weapon of opticor oh wait you did that it's litterally a side grade nobody is going to use kuva grattler over regular grattler as theirs basically no upgrade. 

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Kuva nukor nerf is unnecessary as you nerfed condition overload. Litterally I only used it to ever wipe low level mobs it has no use other than any monster under level 45 gets incinerated easily high level content is useless with it. Chain effects was the only good side now I will never lay a finger on the gun again good job. Thanks for the partial forma refund. Now I can throw kuva nukor in the trash. 

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Also you need to fix sister not always spawning when Criteria is met from granum void I tested this and like even if you get the level 1 out of 3 mission complete in granum void sister doesn't always spawn and the token is wasted yes I read the directions it spawns some times not all the time. 

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More feedback on the Sisters of Parvos Gameplay, System & Flow- I know on the patchnotes it said the damage was fixed(?) for the Liches and Queenpins. Was killing a Queenpin suppose to take 10 minutes though? From the start of the Railjack mission, taking down the 2 security nodes and and 2 crewships took 2 minutes, the other 10 was trying to get my Queenpins health down so I can finish them. I used a Stropha with a heavy attack build, modded also for her weaknesses that were Puncture and Electricity. I get not wanting to nuke them is probably a sentiment y'all have as devs of a game company- but was it necessary to make it so I'm hitting 200-400s and they're regenerating shields on top of that? A level 5 Kuva Lich wasn't nukable, and actually felt like a challenge, this was a level 4 Queenpin and I felt like I was hitting a brick wall. I'm not asking for them to be nukable, but between my last feedback with the over abundance of enemies and then to that it feels way too much for so little.

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Also going thru this whole process for obtaining a sister was so mind numbing boring imma just not play as it doesn't always spawn when you use a zenith crown coin and kill enough enimies to reach level 1 and then when she does decide to spawn its never the weapon you want. And the whole update where the larvling doesn't spawn the same weapon twice is a lie cause it has legit spawned tetra like 5 times. 

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19 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

I like how they neglected to mention that the hour saved on lich grinding would be made up for in a two hour railjack mission.

 

SIGH.

They should of just made the liches a permanent node once you've unlocked all 3 requium signs you need to kill your lich so instead of waiting for it to spawn and checking which order to stab it you can just keep visiting your lich to stab it way easier. Or if it so happens to randomly spawn somewhere else it would die the original way having to stab it and then it flees to space is really dumb I stabbed you and guessed your 3 weaknesses now freaking die maggot! 

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Legit DE knows how to make the game not fun and instead wants to make the grind as long as possible so you stay logged in for 48 hours straight if they could. Can't I just pop in for an hour find a lich kill it get the weapon I want hunt it down kill it easy obtain the weapon easy and then take a nap before I have to goto work or school? Having to play a 10min mission to have a small chance of a sister to spawn which may be a glitch only to not get the correct weapon you wanna hunt increased by rng to approximately 2-3 hours till the right sister spawns with the right weapon hopefully without glitching after beating granum void and not getting a sister only to figure out its weakness which takes 18-30minutes and then it flees into space because liches don't die the way they used to cause now they are immune to our stab weapon and now gotta fight in space for 2 hours helping others kill their liches till you can finally get the weapon you wanted only for you to need to repeat the process 6-12 times so you can have a maxed out version of the weapon. And your parents alot you 1 hour to play on the computer because your a kid and they need it for work. 

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