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Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)


[DE]CoreyOnline
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4 hours ago, Misaania said:

Seeing as the Tenet weapons are contained in this megathread, it seems necessary to bring up the absurdity of grinding for the weapons offered by Ergo Glast.

I have so far done between 15-20 void storms, and gotten 2 drops, which is equal to 12 corrupted holo-keys. I obviously need 40 for one weapon. Amusingly, in the same time frame, I went from rank 8 Command with ~100 intrinsics to rank 10.

Is this where the insult of a the game mode's longevity will truly come from? Us wasting time to get even one weapon. I did enjoy railjack to begin with, but only enough to dip a toe into it every so often, and slowly build up my intrinsics. At this rate, I'll reach rank 10 for all my remaining intrinsics before I get a single weapon.

Is this where the longevity of a game mode will come? Is this how you'll ensure players are still playing your game mode? Is this how you bring new life to a game mode you still have left on an island?

It's extremely frustrating. And there's so many solutions. I was of the belief that holo-keys would be a guaranteed drop. And it should be? Why would it not be? If we want to maximize the damage and element of our weapon, then we don't want to play the game mode for thousands of hours. People will play the game mode if it drops with certainty, and there will be people going in there for other aspects of it.

It should take around 24 missions for a person to get all the weapons, and further attempts to grind the weapons higher will obviously be the inspiration for further investment.

I spent a long time farming a perfect railjack. Even if there's no change, I bet I'll probably spend longer farming all the weapons. But if this systems stays like this, there's no way in hell that I'll even think about returning to storms for improving those weapons, and I don't think many other veterans will do the same.

It's insanely rough and the grind was enough for me to just give up entirely on obtaining one. I did 4 missions without a single drop, wikied it, and found out even if I GOT a drop the highest amount is 6 via Veil Proxima. And they expect us to get 40 for a single weapon? It's simply not even worth it, not until the grind is lessened. It should be 20 at most, and even that is still a grind.

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2 hours ago, (PSN)Poestis said:

My buddy went into public accidentally, did granum void and completed that then the pubs killed his sister larvling.  He has since done about 20 or so missions by himself and cannot get a lich sister larvling to spawn at all (getting about 50-70 kills at least each time in the 50 seconds given which is at least silver reward).  Maybe this is a bug that thinks he already has one?  I don't know for sure, just a thought to the issue you may be having and my friend is having right this moment.

No, if he has no active Kuva Lich, then you don't

Also, I see that my respose to 5-10 missions feedback is getting ignored, so much for a Feedback Thread

Edited by Circle_of_Psi
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I can't do it

I just can't do this anymore

The farm just to GET a Sister broke me.

I received the Tenet Diplos with an Equinox after my 2nd Granum void attempt, and was happy after 4 hours of farming and getting the akimbo briefcase guns for myself.

Confident in my capabilities and wanting to give my sidearms with only 28 damage any damage boost I can, I decided to farm another one with a Trinity to get an innate cold variant to break down.

That was over 3 hours ago. I have been trying to find a Sister with a Tenet Diplos for THREE HOURS. My hubris carried me until run 15, the doubt started setting in at run 16, the anger took root at run 35, and the burnout finally got to me at run 57.

There are too many variables, too many hoops to jump through, too much RNG, and I can't even squad up with others because they might take the Sister for themselves.

I have been going into the capture mission on Pluto for the farm. I've been Landing, capturing the VIP, tracking down one of the Golden hand statues, sacrificing a Zenith Coin, killing Granum Specters with Xoris heavy throw explosion spam, killing the Treasurer to get my coin back, downing the Corpus Canidate, being shown literally every weapon except for the one I'm looking for, and then finally extracting for neatly 4 hours.

I got sad, and angry, because I knew that I needed to go back to the grind, back to the torture, back to the tedious and monotonous gameplay loop that's less interesting than an unplugged toaster wearing a fedora.

DE, I love you guys and I love warframe, but this, this entire process just to get a Corpus lich is too much. I'd rather just hunt down a Tubeman.

Edit: I got an innate cold Tennet Diplos on run 61. My point still stands on how 60 missions is far too much, and I still need to get murmurs and test the requiem order.

Edited by (XBOX)HollowCube987
I got the things, finally
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1 hour ago, Prof_Blocks_007 said:

After thinking on a possible solution, I remembered the Pheromone Synthesiser gear items! The ones used to increase the chance of a rarer species of Conservation animal spawning. Perhaps a similar type of item could be sold by Palladino for a small sum of Kuva? Something like 500-1000, as you get it while farming Thralls, or even credits for the Sister candidates variant. Buy the one for the desired weapon, and use it to get a thrall with said weapon.

Hell, make the items drop from Thralls, like the Requiem relics can.

I don't really know how the gear item would work - maybe it could be used on a downed thrall (by the killer, the one eligible to Mercy it) to change the weapon, to avoid conflicts in random squads (even though thralls are typically done solo afaik)

I've kind of given up on ever seeing the weapon drop mechanic change. 

But if it ever was to, I'd much rather see it change to a faction currency instead of another convoluted system that relies on mitigating the RNG.

All the current system does if I want a specific weapon (and I do) is literally waste my time and adding a bunch of steps that slightly alters the RNG is still wasting my time. Just now with extra steps. 

Strait switching over to a currency system, at least you're always making progress regardless of what Lich you get saddled with. Every Lich gives you enough currency to either outright buy the desired weapon from (insert faction NPC) or upgrade an existing weapons elemental % from the arsenal. 

Cause right now burning time with RNG before you can even truly start interacting with the kingpin system is just maddening. To the point that I have frequently fired up warframe, thought "maybe I'll give the lich system another shot" followed by myultiple runs just trying to get the right weapon to START the kingpin encounter... getting fed up and going to play another game.

Faction currency is the most strait forward, tried and true way to just git-r-dun. 

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8 hours ago, DLOArceus said:

Liches were presented as a Railjack activity from day 1. Why are you complaining about a Railjack activity requiring a Railjack? "If you have one but it's not well equipped yet"? Well then equip it well then. I don't get this dumb argument. You don't bring a modless frame into a Steel Path mission and complain that it's too hard. Even then you can even be super lazy and just archwing every enemy instead of using your ship.

When I started to hunt liches that was not the case. So this is why I am complaining. 

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1 minute ago, Blackdragonbird said:

Can we please have the voice feedback EVERY TIME I kill the hounds tonned down or completely disabled? Is very annoying, VERY annoying.

I have no ide"That was supposed to be warframe resistant!?!?!"a what you're talking about?

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4 hours ago, Cradicias said:

think I have a better solution: Move certain weapons to specific planets AND have the weapon rotation (won't see the same weapon until you go through the full rotation)

Its been said, but I have another suggestion:

Instead of the weapon coming with the larvling, instead put the weapons in specially marked lockers arund the map. You find the locker, press X to accept the weapon inside it, and if you don't like that one go find another locker. It allows players to take what they like, at a cost of having to hunt for it. It also stops the repetition of running the same damn mission over and over and over and over, even with fewer weapons to RNG drop.

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On 2021-07-06 at 2:42 PM, [DE]CoreyOnline said:

New Kuva Lich Showdown Flow

I like this. I also don't really mind the change of the final encounter to be a railjack mission: that WAS the intended vision long ago, after all, and although I do feel like Railjack as a whole has some flaws that very much detract gameplay in it there is no reason why this shouldn't be a thing. All in all, I feel it's okay.

But given how the creating a Sister of Parvos is INTENDED to work (which, currently, it's not exactly working as described in patch notes and whatnot), I feel that there needs to be a revamp to the creation of a Lich.

 

Currently, Liches can only be created when:

1) The enemy is on alert,

2) It is a Grineer-faction mission,

3) You have something like 20 to 30 seconds to score a certain amount of kills to trigger the actual spawn of a candidate, AND

4) IT REQUIRES MISSIONS TO HAVE ENEMIES LEVEL 20+.

 

I want some specific changes:

1) The alert status should not be a factor. This REALLY annoys me, since you have to specifically leave stragglers alive to trigger an alarm OR run specific mission types to make sure it will spawn regardless of your gameplay style: this feels like bad design in my opinion.

2) The timer to get kills, and the amount, is not very accomodating in some mission-types / playing solo, wherein enemy spawns are significantly lowered in some cases. Either remove the timer to get kills or randomly spawn the candidate during the mission similarly to how Acolytes worked back when they had their event (ie, not like how it is in Steel Path currently), from just walking into the designated room that would trigger their spawn: this would be a fair method of spawning in a candidate, as it requires actively searching for one about 30% of the time.

3) The mission level requirement is bogus. Was this so newer players wouldn't encounter the lich candidates of other players? Why can't candidates come from Mars or Ceres? Is there an ACTUAL reason why there is a minimum level requirement on the mission? Reduce the Kuva gain for the kill to 25 or even 10 if this is meant to dissuade farming cadidates for kuva, let me remind you that my proposed spawn method would also counter speed since there's no guarantee that the candidate won't spawn in a side room where nothing else is happening.

 

Overall, I feel that my proposed changes WOULD benefit everyone both in the long run and in the short term, and also bring it more in line with the apparent philosophy of how the Sisters of Parvos are supposed to work.

On that note, I'd also like to remind that not all mission types are currently available as Corpus Space Vessel missions, and in fact there is a statistical favoring of certain mission types where they do exist. I'm also not advocating more nodes in the Star Chart, but this does feel like a kind of self-introduced problem that has been created, and Corpus mission tileset variety feel generally lacking (very few Ice World missions it feels, but that just might be me).

I'm sure there's more that I'd like to comment on, but it is probably not relevant to this topic thread.

Keep up the good work.

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 I had wondered about the issues with sister candidate spawning and have tried a couple more today.  I noticed the issue, but I haven't figured out what causes the issue.

 WIth larvling spawns for kuva liches, there are some rooms where if you are in them, and some hard to access areas where if you are there while it tries to spawn the larvling, it just won't spawn.  But corpus ships don't have nearly as many weird rooms and side areas like that.  Most of it is extremely easy for enemy pathing.  So the sister spawn also having some of those oddities of spawning, on top of how difficult it is to complete most of the requirements start to overwhelm players.

 Having those difficulties, and not knowing if the wind was blowing the wrong direction, or if there was an actual glitch is making it very difficult to keep trying to get sister's and liches.  And of course we have to mention again, that the enhanced weapons are supposed to come out better overall at higher element levels than the base gun, not barely matching up, and we start to be discouraged to even bother with this content.

 Plenty of players are very willing to do it, but I am not betting on people saying they love how this is turning out.  Other players are here providing their feedback about how this is starting to just stretch out, not enhance the game.

 After reading someone else's comment about having to maintain alert status for kuva larvling spawns, I tried my sister candidate again and found out that some of the enemy combinations on missions that difficult won't push the alarm button no matter how much time you give them.  If the level has to be at alert, then some missions lock out the chance of sister candidate spawns because they won't trigger an alert.

Edited by JHarlequin
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Alright, this is gonna be a wall of complaints, not gonna lie. But im gonna try and break my expereinces down so that it will be easier to read.

I am not happy with the new changes, i am not happy at all..
 

Spoiler

I had an annoying Lich that refused to spread from Mars and she has been staying there for a good week now, when i saw that it would be easier to take on liches and earn the murmur i needed i was happy and decided that it would be better if i waited for the update and tried again.

Liches are annoying, but i have never had any problems taking them down before. You can have them spread out to multiple planets across the system and then pick those missions you prefer over the other more annoying options of looking for teams or pray to the void that the defence mission, disruption etc that you really dont want to encounter a lich in would be quickly over. You could take your time, find the right combination and then the lich was yours.

That was before the update.

Now, the lich wont spread out to different planets, youre forced to use up nearly every single mission node on a single planet and then once again pray that the lich would open up another planet, problem is, the lich now only occupy a single planet at a time, after ranking my lich up with the wrong combination twice it finally left Mars and went to Ceres. It left Mars completely, all those missions ive saved for the final confrontation? All gone. And when i finally got the right combination my lich abbandoned Ceres as well and went to occupied Kuva Fortress, i really hate playing in Kuva Fortress.. But since the lich doesnt leave any mission nodes behind anymore i had no other choise but to go there and try my best. It was rank 5, the enemies were all lvl 110 and the only "easy" mission i felt comfortable with solo was the mobile defence mission, and thats where my lich appeared.

She teleported all over the place and constantly kept her shield up, she even downed me when i used Protea's 4th ability, it was instant kill over and over again. I used all 6 revives and my sentinel revived me another 3 times before its primed regen was up, i used my crewmember and any specter i had in my gear wheel, i was desperate.
Ive never had such a hard time fighting a lich before and when i barely managed to reach her and stab her for the last time, she went into the void, waiting for the final confrontation... For an actual fight...

 

What part of this is making it easier taking down liches? They rarely appear in missions, they dont always spread to different planets after ranking up and they only occupy a single planet at a time. And that final confrontation area? The one in the void that you can reach with a railjack, that place where it would be easy to find her once you got all the murmur ready? Im not going there, whatever you guys did to make my lich go from a minivan into a tank i dont like it.

Before it was like a reward that you finally managed to find the lich, take it down and then either convert it or kill it on the spot. Now? Now it feels like all my hard work is multiplied several times over and im almost forced to play with other players to take down a single lich, and even if i got it all down and everything is ready, it will just go into the void and wait for a final confrontation, again..

 

If the lich were in the void waiting for me (like in a base) then it would make more sense, but not only did you guys make the hunt harder and longer to do, you even made it into a much-harder-to-kill boss and then let it escape one final time just so that i have to use the railjack to chase it down.

What in the world were you thinking made this any easier taking down a lich like this? Im a solo player, i dont have partners or friends online at the same time as i am that i can ask for help. And those random matchmakings i had to do to get the lich out of Mars? I got players that went down over and over again, i failed the defense mission 5 times in a row before i finally managed to do it almost solo, the other players were at least mid-game considering their gear and mastery rank and they stood no chance whatsoever at doing this by themselves.

 

Id say that we go back to the old design instead please, this hunt just turned into a major pain and a great waste of time, especially since the lich now waits out in the void instead of being 6 feets under while i grind up a new kuva weapon. I did not enjoy this new update.

 

Edited by (PSN)MrTrixer
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Is the new Oull requiem mod supposed to be transmutable from defiled requiem mods? I got one this way through my first transmutation today after the update but it didn't actually increase the count I owned but the transmutation seemed to be successful and still consumed the defiled mods (just no extra mod when I checked).

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Just remove the Granum void from the Sister spawn farm. it is so damn annoying to solo with all elements that do not have the very FEW Zenith capable frames.

Being forced into sime limited loadouts just to spawn them is mind numbing.

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Thank you for the updates.  So far I really enjoy everything about it except one thing.  Will get to it in a second...

  • New murmur flow is great.  I really like how fast I can get through them compared to before (I had grinded all weapons + ephemeras before).  Great work there.
  • The boss fight at the end is a nice change of pace.  Some people say it's longer, but I don't really agree (after doing 2 of them so far)
  • Weapons are nice.  So far what I have is a nice addition to the collection

So now my problem...

I feel that the way we are expected to farm for Tenet weapons is a lot more cumbersome than it is for Kuva weapons.  When the update first hit, I spent an hour trying to get a Kuva Hek larvling to spawn.  I had all the other weapons, so I kept getting duplicate weapons.  With sisters, the need for a Zenith Granum Crown (not any crown), plus the fact that the coin gets used up before you can even see what weapon you will get, just adds to the farming time considerably.   I am not saying time as in the time to run the missions, rather the time you will have to spend farming up Zenith Crowns when you've exhausted your coins because you didn't get the drop you wanted. 

I really felt like the Kuva system was perfect in that you can easily see what you were getting, and you can skip it without wasting too much time.  I have limited play time (family/kids, work, life), so this seems like a step backwards than it is a step forward. 

At the very least, I would recommend you make it so that any Granum Crown would work.  Best case scenario would be to find a way to not use up the Granum Crown if you do not kill your candidate, allowing you to easily farm for the weapon you want.   

UPDATE: After playing a little bit more, I do want to correct one assumption I had that farming for Zenith Granum Crowns will be tedious as you're trying farm for specific weapons.  The tax collector does appear when you are running normal lich missions and you will get Zenith Crowns from them.  So while you're lich hunting, you will have the opportunity to replenish.  I wanted to be fair to DE.

Edited by TheMikhail
Correction to my statement
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After playing with the Tenet Diplos (dual pistols) for 3 forma I can say for certain that while I like the lock-on mode, the way that it's activated is more of a hinderance than a benefit. I aim with all of my guns while shooting. With the Diplos, there's a delay between when you fire the homing shots and when you can fire again. So when I aim, instead of getting the full auto I expect, I get a handful of shots with like a full second until I'm able to fire again. If you ads with the expectation to begin firing at a single target, you mark that one target, fire 2 rounds, and have to wait for the cooldown to end while the game ignores any further inputs to try and fire the guns at anyone else. The fact that it homes in on headshots is great for the new galvanized mod, but the lock on absolutely needs to be moved to secondary fire for this weapon to not be a frustration to use.

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I understand that GETTING the Sisters of Parvos to spawn so you can acquire her as your own personal Sister is supposed to be difficult, but requiring a player to get a rank 3 perfect 100/100 on a Zenith Crown is way too difficult, It's pretty much not possible to do on your own, and even with two experienced players it's still way too difficult of a task. I recommend either upping the spawn rate of the specters in the challenge itself (because spawn rate is an issue), or making it so that if you get rank 3 on any coin she has a chance to spawn. Either way, getting a lich just requires the player to do like ANY mission on Saturn and as long as you kill fast enough when you see the flicker, the larva spawns, so in my opinion, the sister should not be this much harder to get, and if that means making the Liches more difficult to get and making the Sisters easier to get at the same time then so be it.

Also, my friend and i just finished killing our first Sisters, and we went back to the missions to get more, we ended up doing a nightmare mission and doing the Zenith Crown challenge and got a rank 3 and the sister didn't even spawn so that might be a problem to look into

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1 hour ago, Jermsss127 said:

Is the new Oull requiem mod supposed to be transmutable from defiled requiem mods? I got one this way through my first transmutation today after the update but it didn't actually increase the count I owned but the transmutation seemed to be successful and still consumed the defiled mods (just no extra mod when I checked).

hello, i also had something like this happen.  

I got one as a mission reward after hitting my litch with all 3 mods in the right order and it did not increase my oull mod count to 2 i had only 1. I sent in a help ticket with 2 photos 1 showing mission rewards and 1 showing current oull mods and they essencaly said you are screwed and we wont help (with out saying you are screwed) they said they cant recreate stuff and what not.

roxydog1

 

edit notes: it appears that they have accepted my ticket request after I gave them more information about the mission and they have funded my account with the 2nd oull mod. 

thank you to the de member that reviewed my ticket and helped me out.

have a nice day

Edited by roxydog1
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3 minutes ago, zorok34 said:

rank 3 perfect 100/100 on a Zenith Crown is way too difficult,

You don't have to get to 100 it is either 25 or 50 min, and it is not to difficult. i do mine solo and i only use xoris with mods of 

astral twilight r3, primed pressure point r10, prime reach r8, spoiled strike r3, fury r5, focus energy r3, molten impact r5, life strike r3, corrupt charge r3 and it only takes a 1-2 min.

roxydog1

 

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I hadn't read much about the sisters before the update, so I went into my first sister hunt without any expectations. It's just a corpus lich, after all, right? 

 

Hunting the sister: Granum void. When I read that in the update notes, I wasn't looking forward to that part. The granum void was never fun for me and i was really glad that I was done farming protea and the weapons from the granum void and never had to return there. This kind of timed minigame is just annoying imo. But, it was just once, so off into the granum void, reached reward tier 1, out again and there my sister candidate spawned. Picked up the sister, since I didn't have any yet, I didn't care which weapon it had, completed the mission, killed the treasurer on the way out and done. 

But, I've also been on the side of the fence where you have to run 3-4 hours of cassini capture to get the one weapon you want or don't have yet. And it's not fun. Not at all. Once, twice, even 10 times or a full rotation of weapons, yes. But 4 hours of getting offered every weapon except the one I'm looking for? Awful. And now even worse since we have to go through all the trouble with the granum void, which also makes the entire process even slower. 

 

Now, murmur farming. I took a look at the star map and found my sister occupying venus. That's not a bad planet to start, so I went into my first mission to look for murmurs. It didn't take long to encounter the first hound, but there was a surprise. Instead of just killing it like kuva thralls, it took a lot more firepower to kill it, interrupted by an unusual amount of knockdowns and losing my primary weapon. Not a fun way to fight, but I guess one can just get used to it. Since many people were doing sisters, I had no problem encountering random other players in my missions, which helped to speed up the process. 

Then the next surprise was waiting. My sister showed up and I got to test my combination. Since I didn't have any symbols unveiled yet, I took a chance with a randomly guessed combo. Again I noticed the sister was much harder to take down than the kuva liches had been previously. Not necessarily a bad thing for me, but I feel sorry for newer players who try this. Of course my guess turned out wrong, the sister ranked up and I returned to my orbiter. To my surprise, all the lich nodes on venus were gone, the sister had moved on. Now that's not a good change. With only so many nodes available on a planet, we now are forced to play mission types that we don't like at all. Unless we can get the sister to show up before we run out of liked missions and make her rank up again. I got lucky with my sister showing up every 3-4 missions, but if that is not always the case, I see players forced in annoying mission nodes that reduce the fun of this by a large amount. 

Several rank ups and planet moving later, I had all my symbols and it was time for the last encounter. I picked a survival mission, waited for the sister, and the fight began. There were a few things I noticed in all my sister encounters. First, she seems to teleport or dash around a lot. The little red icon is not easy to distinguish like it was for kuva liches, thralls and the lich itself can easily be spotted. Here i had to guess, run over and take a closer look and see if this was a hound or my sister before I could continue the fight. Very confusing and unfun while being attacked by hounds, the sister and random enemies. In one of these encounters, I got hit with an odd series of knockdowns that basically stunlocked me for almost a minute until I was able to get up on my feet again. I couldn't see which enemy was responsible for that and if this is a bug or intended. My last observation, I was not using a weak frame. I regularly run steel path and with all the firepower I had to throw at that sister, I could've wiped 30 mins of steel path survival. Way too tanky in my opinion. It was an okay challenge for me, but once again, what are players without minmaxed gear supposed to do with this? 

My combination worked and then I stood there, no option to vanquish or convert the sister. I continued the mission and extracted, worried that I might have to do all this again and it didn't recognize my kill attempt at all. I did a little reading, and found out I have to go into railjack. Not fond of RJ since the last update, but for one mission its okay so I went to the final showdown. 

With my mission set to public, I ended up in a squad of 4. If there was any RJ combat going on before I arrived, idk about it. I spawned in at the point where it told us to enter the corpus ship. So i just followed the crowd and we began to take down our sisters. Doing these one after another for everyone in the squad felt fun and rewarding for our team work, well done on this one DE. On the third sister however, it created a full clone of my xaku and basically one-shot me. I don't think this cloning of player frames is really a good idea, since we need to carry enough force to take down the sister, there's absolutely no defense against basically a hostile player frame. 

I was able to vanquish the sister without any bugs and returned to the orbiter once more to claim my rewards. The weapon was waiting in the foundry, and so was the hound. A little riddle was waiting, every time I tried to claim the hound it told me "unknown error" and "insufficient inventory space". Purchasing more companion slots solved the issue, but why didn't it just say "you need more slots, buy for 12 plat now?" like it usually does? 

 

Overall, it was a nice change of pace, I can see hunting a few more sisters in the future, but I really hope the issues that many players have already mentioned here before get fixed before I reach the point of having to find a specific weapon or trying to do this solo. 

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Hello!

Due to the new update you are unable to place decorations near the codex anymore where the Waverider #1 object spawns and it is quite frustrating. The placement restriction is from top to bottom around the entire codex spot.
Please if possible change it so that the restriction gets removed after you have finished the quest or remove it entirely.
(See screenshots bellow of where the issue is located.)9wttygt4uwWNznSoyj4T5e63N?token=eyJhbGci

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