I strongly disagree with your approach to nerfs.

[Traumtulpe]

It is my impression that you really have no regard at all, not even in the slightest, for the time your players spend on the items you decide to nerf on a whim, and often without rime or reason.

Again and again and again, and again, you reduce the effectiveness of items I spent significant amounts of time on by substantial amounts, usually 30－70%. You might argue that even at 30% effectiveness, items are still usable, and you wouldn'd be wrong, such a sorry affair is balance in this game. But you might just as well use an MK1 weapon, usable, sure, but no longer enjoyable, and absolutely subpar.

Rarely are your nerfs fair and reasonable (Catchmoon comes to mind), usually they just break whatever they affect. Your latest victim is the Vermisplicer. This weapon already wasn't great, and plagued with bugs, yet you just decided on a whim to nerf it, citing the Kuva Nukor as reason. Vermisplicer is not the Nukor, not by a long shot, as your precious usage statistics should have told you loud and clear.

Your justification of "We just thought it might be a good Idea, maybe, since we were nerfing the Nukor, and they look kinda similar to us." is just painful. That is my time you just decided to delete, on a whim, and without a clue.

Could I respectfully ask you to maybe in the future carefully consider the balance of items before your players have spent time and possibly money on them? Just the smallest possible amount of respect for your players would be much appreciated.

[Senteo]

I feel like scammed by DE... they keep nerfing and i keep buying forma and co. slots. SUPPORTING this game... for what? DE nerfs every good thing in this game i cant get even why...? This game is not competitive at all... that would be a reason to nerf.... NERFING makes ppls angrey and switch to other games where the time and money u invest is more secure. 

[Skaleek]

There were a lot of notes, can you paste the vermisplicer change? I didn't catch it in my preliminary read.

[Traumtulpe]

1 minute ago, Skaleek said:

There were a lot of notes, can you paste the vermisplicer change? I didn't catch it in my preliminary read.

Chains from 5 to 3.

[Skaleek]

1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

Chains from 5 to 3.

Yeah, found it. The rationalization is pretty funny.

[SneakyErvin]

They try to bring some balance to the same weapon type.

The change goes perfectly inline with other weapons when you look at the Amprex for instance, which has the same amount of chains at a slightly longer chain distance but a far shorter initial beam range on avarage. Which is why the Kuva Nukor change was also justified since it bring the weapon inline with the rest of the weapons that are similar.

Also, when did they break the Catchmoon?

[Kaotyke]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also, when did they break the Catchmoon?

Quote

Decreased range of projectile from 40m to 20m and fall off range from 20-30m to 8-16m.

They made the weapon fall off become shorter. Which means you have to get coser to enemies so you do more damage instead of sitting at over 20m away from them, you have to press W for a few instances and that's unacceptable.

A brutalization. A scandal. A #*!%ing scam.

Warframe has been going downhill since 2012.

[Traumtulpe]

20 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also, when did they break the Catchmoon?

Try reading the first post again.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2021-07-06 at 6:37 PM, Kaotyke said:

They made the weapon fall off become shorter. Which means you have to get coser to enemies so you do more damage instead of sitting at over 20m away from them, you have to press W for a few instances and that's unacceptable.

A brutalization. A scandal. A #*!%ing scam.

Warframe has been going downhill since 2012.

Ah yes that breaking! We two are on the same track regarding this conspiracy of stuff-breaking. We shall never forget 2012!

 

On 2021-07-06 at 6:39 PM, Traumtulpe said:

Try reading the first post again.

Ah you mean Catchmoon was fair and reasonable? Then I'm sorry for misinterpreting it.

[Torbamf]

If DE actively makes the game no longer fun to play, people are just gonna stop playing it.

[Skaleek]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

They try to bring some balance to the same weapon type.

Yeah but the Atomos and the Kuva nukor are the same "weapon type" and they didnt nerf the Atomos, and if they had that woulda been pretty silly. You dont think the rationalization that because the vermisplicer has similar mechanics it should be nerfed in the same way kinda illogical? Given that weapons have a lot more than just plain "how many targets do i hit"? So many other stats need to be examined before making the kind of decision to reduce its efficacy by 40%. Imagine they had also thrown out that the Ignis Wraith now can only damage a max of 3 targets simultaneously? I feel like that would destroy the identity of the gun.

I don't use a vermisplicer personally, I don't know where it ranks in overall power level. The rationalization that DE gave behind the shared nerf is kinda ???? though.

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Yeah but the Atomos and the Kuva nukor are the same "weapon type" and they didnt nerf the Atomos, and if they had that woulda been pretty silly. You dont think the rationalization that because the vermisplicer has similar mechanics it should be nerfed in the same way kinda illogical? Given that weapons have a lot more than just plain "how many targets do i hit"? So many other stats need to be examined before making the kind of decision to reduce its efficacy by 40%. Imagine they had also thrown out that the Ignis Wraith now can only damage a max of 3 targets simultaneously? I feel like that would destroy the identity of the gun.

I don't use a vermisplicer personally, I don't know where it ranks in overall power level. The rationalization that DE gave behind the shared nerf is kinda ???? though.

But why should the Atomos be nerfed because the Kuva Nukor or Vermi got nerfed?

I mean, you say it yourself in your post that they have many other stats to consider. Which is exactly why Atomos didnt get nerfed, nor the Amprex, because they already have other limitations in their stats that the other two doesnt. Such as severely more limited range, lower chain damage coefficients etc.

[Krankbert]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Skaleek:

 

I don't use a vermisplicer personally, I don't know where it ranks in overall power level. 

And yet here you are giving your opinion on something while openly admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

“I don’t know where the Vermisplicer ranks in overall power level, therefore I can’t know whether the nerf is justified or not, therefore I can’t comment on it.“ It‘s really not complicated.

[Skaleek]

11 hours ago, Krankbert said:

And yet here you are giving your opinion on something while openly admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about

I can still give my opinion on their rationalization being poor, which it was.

If they nerfed based on its stats, say that. Don't just nerf it because it's a gun "like the nukor".

[Venus-Venera]

On 2021-07-06 at 5:36 PM, Traumtulpe said:

It is my impression that you really have no regard at all, not even in the slightest, for the time your players spend on the items you decide to nerf on a whim, and often without rime or reason.

Again and again and again, and again, you reduce the effectiveness of items I spent significant amounts of time on by substantial amounts, usually 30－70%. You might argue that even at 30% effectiveness, items are still usable, and you wouldn'd be wrong, such a sorry affair is balance in this game. But you might just as well use an MK1 weapon, usable, sure, but no longer enjoyable, and absolutely subpar.

Rarely are your nerfs fair and reasonable (Catchmoon comes to mind), usually they just break whatever they affect. Your latest victim is the Vermisplicer. This weapon already wasn't great, and plagued with bugs, yet you just decided on a whim to nerf it, citing the Kuva Nukor as reason. Vermisplicer is not the Nukor, not by a long shot, as your precious usage statistics should have told you loud and clear.

Your justification of "We just thought it might be a good Idea, maybe, since we were nerfing the Nukor, and they look kinda similar to us." is just painful. That is my time you just decided to delete, on a whim, and without a clue.

Could I respectfully ask you to maybe in the future carefully consider the balance of items before your players have spent time and possibly money on them? Just the smallest possible amount of respect for your players would be much appreciated.

There was no thought at all about balance. devs have their stats and before content update with new weapons they make every popular weapon to the last garbage. that has happened now too. 50% less damage against group, therefore less status procs and you have to buy 1-2 targets all the time.

above all, new weapons are also much better than kuva nukor ........... (of course i haven't tested all of them). no matter whether 4-5 status procs, aoe or single target damage!

[Rawbeard]

On 2021-07-06 at 5:36 PM, Traumtulpe said:

not even in the slightest

oh, honey, you have no idea how much stuff is still in this game because "there were people who did the grind in the first week, so we wont disrespect that and let everyone else go through the same for years and years"

[Sziklamester]

Investments are not really important for DE. The game is in forever BETA and they can change everything as they like and the only consequence if they hurt the game deeply the losing of the playerbase. Any investment in this game is a risk and temporal for you. I know who have no pocket and cannot do anything just grind the game for stuff are usually let in a corner but this game is nothing really just grind the same stuff no matter you spent money or not.

Balance is need but usually the reasoning behind is questionable and often they do without thinking. They are not consistent on what they do nor they really know what the game supposed to be and for that reason they kept the game in BETA which legalize them any major changes. The problem is they cannot really make something other than band aids and fun ruining changes because with no clear direction they cannot make changes to push the game and it's players to casual, hardcore, metaplayer etc. levels. 

In my opinion most of these changes do minor things and basically the secondaries primaries still not get their buffs. DE does not want to risk a major player migration otherwise they go bankrupt so they try this "we cater everyone attitude".

 

Sure compensation would be a ice gesture but no matter what they give they cannot give back your time you spent on the game so just try to not involve into too deep and play for fun or self goals other than grinding and making the game as a second job. 

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

So fed up of "OH MY PRECIOUS TIME!!!!!"

Since when were video games a good use of time?

[AlexMercer]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

"you" as in us, the community? Because that's where you posted..

I don't really care about nerfs anymore.. we've been broken since i joined back in sep 2014, we're still broken and we will always be broken. And I'm fine with that. 

Pretty much this.. 😆

Just because you think we are broken does not mean everyone else thinks so to.

[Yamazuki]

19 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

often without rime or reason.

It's simply because there isn't one. Just look at any "reason" they've given for any "balance" changes done in the last couple years. It's always, this one person whined, so nerfed. Or, people dared to use this weapon, so nerf.

Balance isn't the goal of their changes, it's just appeasement or dictating what people should be using [usage stats].

The reliance on opinions from a small section, or statistics, is also why some insanely broken interactions remain in the game. If something is never brought to their attention by those they listen to, or have high usage, it never gets nerfed. 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Ah yes screaming into the void at DE in general discussion. Things never change

Barely noticed any changes except the glaive throw on xoris, my melees are performing about the same as i predicted since the """"nerfs"""" are just stats being bump down a little on like 3 mods.  The kuva nukor still has its damage so the less chains is a non issue. And too occupied with sisters at moment to see how the guns stack up

[(PSN)Jacobivan]

19 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

It is my impression that you really have no regard at all, not even in the slightest, for the time your players spend on the items you decide to nerf on a whim, and often without rime or reason.

Again and again and again, and again, you reduce the effectiveness of items I spent significant amounts of time on by substantial amounts, usually 30－70%. You might argue that even at 30% effectiveness, items are still usable, and you wouldn'd be wrong, such a sorry affair is balance in this game. But you might just as well use an MK1 weapon, usable, sure, but no longer enjoyable, and absolutely subpar.

Rarely are your nerfs fair and reasonable (Catchmoon comes to mind), usually they just break whatever they affect. Your latest victim is the Vermisplicer. This weapon already wasn't great, and plagued with bugs, yet you just decided on a whim to nerf it, citing the Kuva Nukor as reason. Vermisplicer is not the Nukor, not by a long shot, as your precious usage statistics should have told you loud and clear.

Your justification of "We just thought it might be a good Idea, maybe, since we were nerfing the Nukor, and they look kinda similar to us." is just painful. That is my time you just decided to delete, on a whim, and without a clue.

Could I respectfully ask you to maybe in the future carefully consider the balance of items before your players have spent time and possibly money on them? Just the smallest possible amount of respect for your players would be much appreciated.

I feel you, mate. I immensely enjoyed my primary Verminsplicer. I invested couple forma, even got a decent riven. Made separate builds for Grineer and Corpus, which i never did before. I love it does no explosions or excessive graphical clutter like Kuva Nukor, while still being great aoe weapon. 

Truth be told, it was op. Using ammo recharge arcane i never run out of ammo and single clip was enough to kill almost any room on Steel Path, even before i rolled a riven. It's still very good, but deletes only 3 enemies at the time, instead of 5.

I suppose not many peaple decided to invest enough time, thought and forma into Verminsplicer for it to become meta, so nerf was really unexpected. I can't honestly say it was undeserved, though. I would prefer DE would take a look at older, weaker weapons and bought them up to speed instead of nerfing good ones, but i understand there's hundreds of weapons and the ammount of work required to 'balance up' everything instead of nerfing a couple stronger ones is immense. 

As for investment we Verminsplicer fans made... Time enjoyed is not time wasted:-)

[Traumtulpe]

5 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

oh, honey, you have no idea how much stuff is still in this game because "there were people who did the grind in the first week, so we wont disrespect that and let everyone else go through the same for years and years"

That is obviously just an excuse. DE likes to do that, give excuses when it suits them to act against our interest. Turns out it's actually all our fault.

5 hours ago, (PSN)Jacobivan said:

Truth be told, it was op.

Not even close. I literally oneshot entire rooms one hour into Steel Path Kuva Survival with a weapon that still has 3/5 Riven disposition (and I don't have a Riven).

Meanwhile the Vermisplicer, with a Riven, slowly sucks the live out of previously 6, now 4 enemies. It can't get headshots, it has trouble damaging Nullifier bubbles, it has like half the stats of the Kuva Nukor, it can't effectively be built for heat (which is what makes all the OP beam weapons OP, except the few that have good slash damage).

Sorry, but I have no need of a weapon that is killing slowly, is very bugged, and halfway between AoE and single target. Nor does anybody else, which is why it was barely used when it was AoE, and will no longer be used now that it isnt.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Hmm.

Would this sentiment of “respect the player’s time” be called upon if they ever reduced a grind that many players went through?

[Loza03]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Hmm.

Would this sentiment of “respect the player’s time” be called upon if they ever reduced a grind that many players went through?

Yup. Several times, as a matter of fact. This is has come up a bunch of times. More or less every time DE decides to reduce grind people show up and say "Why aren't you respecting my time DE?".

Or, frequently, asking to be compensated.