Primary and secondary arcane adapter

[Godmode_Ash]

I just found out that arcane adapters are consumable for each weapon, instead of unlocking universal across all primary/secondary. I thought the purpose of those arcane is to bring primary/secondary up to the melee standard. Why are they locking behind another grind-fest?

I have 300 weapons, so I have to make choose on which weapon to put adapter on. Meta/stronger weapon will likely to be first to equip with adapters because nobody is going to waste adapter on weak stuff.

 

 

PS. Why do we have to use tags when making new threads now? There's not enough tags to be specific anyway.

[XaelathRavenstorm]

Guns are already in line with melee even before this update, you just don't know which weapons to use and how to mod properly. It's only 15 per weapon, it's like free real estate. Come on get off your high horse and grind a little if you do not have SE stacked up.

 

[Leqesai]

2 minutes ago, XaelathRavenstorm said:

Guns are already in line with melee even before this update, you just don't know which weapons to use and how to mod properly. It's only 15 per weapon, it's like free real estate. Come on get off your high horse and grind a little if you do not have SE stacked up.

 

This. Cannot be restated enough.

[Godmode_Ash]

1 minute ago, XaelathRavenstorm said:

Guns are already in line with melee even before this update, you just don't know which weapons to use and how to mod properly. It's only 15 per weapon, it's like free real estate. Come on get off your high horse and grind a little if you do not have SE stacked up.

Not sure if you are being sarcastic about gun in line with melee. I do have tons SP essence saved up only because I play too much, I doubt everyone is like me tho.

Still this approach is dumb, why didn't they make it like kit-gun?

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 minutes ago, Godmode_Ash said:

Still this approach is dumb, why didn't they make it like kit-gun?

I thought the same. why DE feels we need to not only farm the Arcanes themselves but also the privilege to use them, when it was free before, is strange. 

but at least they are reasonably priced: 20 Steel Essence really isn't that much. I couldn't believe it when Riven Ciphers were only 30 Essence, I thought they'd be way more (but of course, they're limited to 1 per week like Umbra Forma.)

[Redfeather75]

The whole thing is adding grind and avoiding balance,

[trst]

Because 15 essence per weapon isn't a lot to begin with (plus SP alerts were buffed and Acolytes spawn more) and you only need the slot for weapons you want/need to be stronger (no you're not using 300 different weapons).

Was it necessary for them to make it an unlock? No. But it also wasn't necessary for them to add it in the first place when we never needed gun arcanes in the first place.

[Leqesai]

6 minutes ago, trst said:

Because 15 essence per weapon isn't a lot to begin with (plus SP alerts were buffed and Acolytes spawn more) and you only need the slot for weapons you want/need to be stronger (no you're not using 300 different weapons).

 

This is a really good point.

15 essence is a tiny cost. With a resource booster this is 4 acolytes. This means on average you can unlock one arcane every 20 minute survival match you run. And if you do incursions you can get one every two missions.

The price per weapon is low.... but the cost to do all weapons is crazy. 0.01% of players (those who have every weapon in the game) will feel the grind for sure.

[Godmode_Ash]

38 minutes ago, trst said:

(no you're not using 300 different weapons)

I wish tho.

I just manually counted. Out of 300+ primary/secondary I kept, about 100+ of them were all forma out and proper config. But I only use about 10 them in SP. If the arcane unlocking is universal, it would give me more incentive to bring the weaker one to SP.

In regular mission there's no restriction so I just bring whatever. Using same weapons are boring.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

You're not using 300 weapons. Nice try though. 

Nothing has changed: if you like a specific weapon then invest in it.

[Godmode_Ash]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You're not using 300 weapons. Nice try though. 

Nothing has changed: if you like a specific weapon then invest in it.

If you want to post a comment you should probably read the thread.

I never said I use all 300 weapon.

 

[Yamazuki]

2 hours ago, Godmode_Ash said:

I thought the purpose of those arcane is to bring primary/secondary up to the melee standard. Why are they locking behind another grind-fest?

That's because you thought wrong. They exist to appease a small section of the player base. The genuinely bad weapons aren't going to mysteriously stop being garbage due to these arcanes [or the mods]. On the other hand, the weapons that already delete enemies with your eyes closed get stronger, because reasons.

DE also loves "balancing" things through buffed stats as a "new" weapon, or by new mods/arcanes. Almost all issues in the game get "solved" this way for the purpose of giving people a reason to play certain content.

[Godmode_Ash]

6 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

DE also loves "balancing" things through buffed stats as a "new" weapon, or by new mods/arcanes. Almost all issues in the game get "solved" this way for the purpose of giving people a reason to play certain content.

That is how I see it this update. After month of hot topic discussing about gun vs melee, I thought that was suppose to be the goal of this update.

But the way DE implement it seem like they care more about keeping players to grind to stay in game, balancing is just secondary objective.

[Zi-Sui]

2 hours ago, XaelathRavenstorm said:

Guns are already in line with melee even before this update, you just don't know which weapons to use and how to mod properly. It's only 15 per weapon, it's like free real estate. Come on get off your high horse and grind a little if you do not have SE stacked up.

 

So you're saying my Stropha build that hit 38 million red crits with nukor's applied viral + heat procs on infested, was outdone in damage done by some guns? Pre-patch? And don't give me the bs that you did it with some frame that only buffs gun damage or used something else than a weapons platformer to do it, it ruins the purpose. Though I suppose that too is arguable, like everything these days. People can argue whether the sky falls and crushes us tomorrow or not, lol. But point is, I'll believe you if I can replicate than 40 million gun crit of yours with pre-patch means. You don't even have to give me a screenshot nor video about it nor a lengthy explanation. You can give it in private and I'll come back here and say "yeah you were right, my bad" if you were indeed right and had 40 million plus crit from a gun with pure weapons platforming.

Maybe you actually can do it with Vigilante mods, but it's not as sustainable then as my Stropha's build which could replicate that 38M red crit every third hit or so, heavy attack efficiency CO BL build. And sorry if I seem skeptical, I just find it hard to believe, is all. But world is full of wonders...

[Godmode_Ash]

17 minutes ago, Zi-of-Jinx said:

So you're saying my Stropha build that hit 38 million red crits with nukor's applied viral + heat procs on infested, was outdone in damage done by some guns? Pre-patch? And don't give me the bs that you did it with some frame that only buffs gun damage or used something else than a weapons platformer to do it, it ruins the purpose. Though I suppose that too is arguable, like everything these days. People can argue whether the sky falls and crushes us tomorrow or not, lol. But point is, I'll believe you if I can replicate than 40 million gun crit of yours with pre-patch means. You don't even have to give me a screenshot nor video about it nor a lengthy explanation. You can give it in private and I'll come back here and say "yeah you were right, my bad" if you were indeed right and had 40 million plus crit from a gun with pure weapons platforming.

Maybe you actually can do it with Vigilante mods, but it's not as sustainable then as my Stropha's build which could replicate that 38M red crit every third hit or so, heavy attack efficiency CO BL build. And sorry if I seem skeptical, I just find it hard to believe, is all. But world is full of wonders...

It's not even Stropha issue. There are like 20 threads about melee vs gun discuss not sure why we still debating.

Basically with a proper setup, 95% of melee weapons can 1-2 shot stuff in SP. For guns even with with proper setup, only like 5-10% can do the same. Not mentioning melee is way faster and have more synergy: you can literally go cloud-walk Wukong and wipe entire map faster than Saryn AOE ticks.

Melee is just miles ahead of guns even after nerf. I was hoping the arcane would help weaker guns, but looks like I am just going to save it for stronger one after seeing the grind.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

It's a Essence sink to use up all the Essence you'll accumulate farming arcanes from Acolytes.

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 minutes ago, Godmode_Ash said:

It's not even Stropha issue. There are like 20 threads about melee vs gun discuss not sure why we still debating.

Basically with a proper setup, 95% of melee weapons can 1-2 shot stuff in SP. For guns even with with proper setup, only like 5-10% can do the same. Not mentioning melee is way faster and have more synergy: you can literally go cloud-walk Wukong and wipe entire map faster than Saryn AOE ticks.

Melee is just miles ahead of guns even after nerf. I was hoping the arcane would help weaker guns, but looks like I am just going to keep it on my stronger one after seeing the grind.

Er. You’re saying you’re not going to find out for yourself if the new mods and arcanes help weaker guns?

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Er. You’re saying you’re not going to find out for yourself if the new mods and arcanes help weaker guns?

The arcanes simply raise the floor for power at the cost of grind. They don't benefit weaker weapons more.

Would be cool if new mods or arcanes were released that scale off of MR requirement. The lower the MR requirement, greater the gain.

[XaelathRavenstorm]

Lol if you think melee weapons can clear SP faster than guns you are delusional. What can your 38bazillion damage melee do when I'm already at the extraction with everything dead before you even swing your junk meta frame nukor stropha bs?

[Godmode_Ash]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Er. You’re saying you’re not going to find out for yourself if the new mods and arcanes help weaker guns?

No, I didn't say it won't.
I was saying because the adapter is consumable, I am going to prioritize it for good weapons first. In long term, maybe I will farm it for rest of weaker weapon.

If the adapter is unlock across weapons like kit-gun, I wouldn't have to make choices for adapter. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

The arcanes simply raise the floor for power at the cost of grind. They don't benefit weaker weapons more.

Would be cool if new mods or arcanes were released that scale off of MR requirement. The lower the MR requirement, greater the gain.

It seems… kind of obvious that the higher-power weapons can get more powerful if they equip arcanes? By dint of being more powerful with an Arcane slot, that can free the player up to use different mods as long as the weapon still kills effectively.

And then weaker weapons magically have an extra arcane that can increase their damage, which sounds beneficial.

You sound like you’ve tested the effectiveness; how does it go?

[(NSW)Greybones]

4 minutes ago, Godmode_Ash said:

No, I didn't say it won't.
I was saying because the adapter is consumable, I am going to prioritize it for good weapons first. In long term, maybe I will farm it for rest of weaker weapon.

If the adapter is unlock across weapons like kit-gun, I wouldn't have to make choices for adapter. 

Ahhh, gotcha. It’ll be a bit before you definitively know for yourself, fair enough

edit: I’m a big fan of not rushing, so I can get behind taking your time 👍 

[Godmode_Ash]

3 minutes ago, XaelathRavenstorm said:

Lol if you think melee weapons can clear SP faster than guns you are delusional. What can your 38bazillion damage melee do when I'm already at the extraction with everything dead before you even swing your junk meta frame nukor stropha bs?

Which gun? What setup? You need to be more specific.

Also in general, melee > gun. Can you kill faster with ANY gun than any melee?

[White_Matter]

Because thats how the system works. They first create a problem and then present a solution. 

From your point of view, Primary / Secondary arcane slot is a buff.

From DE's point of view it is an opportunity to implement a new system of grind.

[XaelathRavenstorm]

22 minutes ago, Godmode_Ash said:

Which gun? What setup? You need to be more specific.

Also in general, melee > gun. Can you kill faster with ANY gun than any melee?

Yes, it's not even a competition. In addition to that, mashing E "gameplay" is just dumb.