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The new lich's damage reduction is insane


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1 hour ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Have you considered that your Sister has a toxin damage bonus, and that toxin damage bypasses shields.

Had the same experience as that person, arcor plasmor specifically, radiation and magnetic both insta killing me as a strength based chroma with armour active. Don't think its toxin damage doing it. 

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6 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

Had the same experience as that person, arcor plasmor specifically, radiation and magnetic both insta killing me as a strength based chroma with armour active. Don't think its toxin damage doing it. 

Use this site to see what is killing you, it's very handy.

Death Log Parser
https://semlar.com/deathlog

Quote

Death Log Parser
This tool reads through your EE.log file and identifies the cause of death for anyone on your team. Your log file is located at %localappdata%\Warframe\EE.log in windows.

Your log file is not uploaded to the server. Everything is processed locally in your browser.

It can take up to 10 seconds for the log file to update with a new entry after a player dies if you're using this while the game is running, so if a recent death isn't showing up just wait a bit and try again.

The log file is erased every time the game is launched; you will lose the data from your previous session if you restart the game without making a backup copy of the old EE.log file.

 

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30 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

Not even kind of a thing. All sisters can move to your location via five abilities or innate teleport and unless you're mr5 they're aren't the kind of threat you're implying.

They can definitely be that kind of threat, even at MR30 with 8 years of experience. I've been getting one shot as a strength chroma with active maxed out armour. I've had to run and hide just to extract without killing the sister today because it was impossible to kill 20 hounds and several chroma spectres that spawn on my feet and basically one shot me, just to be able to fight the sister without being cc'd for a solid 5 minutes. 

And in case this is your first thought, no it wasn't radiation team damage. It was solo and my previous radiation sister was far easier to kill as a squishier frame. 

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2 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

Thats super handy, had no idea it existed, cheers! Will have to check it out in the morning.

Here is an example of how it displays the info. Yes I was trying to work out why my pet was dieing so much he's normally more tanky.

Player identified as <Slayer-.>
LOG DATE - 03/07/2021, 12:57:50
22:45:06 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 57 health by a level 82 TROOPER using a Shotgun
22:46:13 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 34 health by a level 86 ELITE LANCER using a AIGrnBurstRifle
22:47:18 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 464 health by a level 87 SCORCH using a FlameLancerFlameThrower
22:51:01 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 90 health by a level 80 ELITE LANCER using a EliteGrineerNpcThrowGrenadeWeapon
22:58:10 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 200 health by a level 86 SEEKER using a GrnHeavyPistol
22:58:25 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 100 health by a level 80 NOX using a GrnChemstrikeNoxRifle
23:00:44 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 377 health by a level 86 SCORCH using a FlameLancerFlameThrower
23:01:36 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 1,320 health by a level 83 ELITE SHIELD LANCER using a AIGrnGrenadeLauncherPistol
 

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2 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

22:45:06 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 57 health by a level 82 TROOPER using a Shotgun
22:46:13 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 34 health by a level 86 ELITE LANCER using a AIGrnBurstRifle
22:47:18 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 464 health by a level 87 SCORCH using a FlameLancerFlameThrower
22:51:01 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 90 health by a level 80 ELITE LANCER using a EliteGrineerNpcThrowGrenadeWeapon
22:58:10 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 200 health by a level 86 SEEKER using a GrnHeavyPistol
22:58:25 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 100 health by a level 80 NOX using a GrnChemstrikeNoxRifle
23:00:44 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 377 health by a level 86 SCORCH using a FlameLancerFlameThrower
23:01:36 - <SAHASA KUBROW> downed at 1,320 health by a level 83 ELITE SHIELD LANCER using a AIGrnGrenadeLauncherPistol

Game to your Sahasa Kubrow:

Pin on *existential dread*

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2 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

Nope. KP heavy kills level 200 SP armor eximus in one hit+ one proc, or two hits.

Shield augment Sister with "no" armor and "vulnerability" to toxin takes literally five minutes of continual damage from the same weapon to die.

#*!%ing ridiculous and not engaging in the slightest.

Typical DE carpal tunnel simulator content.

 

Stuff like this is a good argument for a stat squish. 

Our inflated numbers are meaningless to the enemies that actually matter.

Trying to balance inflated numbers against arbitrary damage reduction makes it hard to discern what is even happening during combat.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Stuff like this is a good argument for a stat squish. 

Our inflated numbers are meaningless to the enemies that actually matter.

Trying to balance inflated numbers against arbitrary damage reduction makes it hard to discern what is even happening during combat.

I agree with you for the most part, I'd enjoy a more balanced system that wasn't all one shots all the time or nothing, but at the same time systems like used for the new liches that are as limited/basic make any non meta builds non-viable, and any damage output past the caps completely meaningless. The games just not designed with this in mind as of current as everything from the rudimentary AI to the copy pasted rooms built for looks rather than gameplay heavily push things to be more mindless/simple. Maybe if they rebalance things and implement more difficult fights like this it would be fine, but DE has a  sub-par to poor history of bad balancing and creating engaging content. (That said I absolutely love the new railjack, definitely a step in the right direction IMO, but some people disagree)

Edited by (PSN)Wildman537
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vor 18 Stunden schrieb Redfeather75:

It could be really cool and fun if doing a lot of damage to a sister in a short amount of time triggered Hysteria in them. That S#&amp;&#036; is scary.

 

Hmm, that might be an idea for a future update. What if the lichs had 2 bars, one for rage and the other for control.

To beat the lich effectively you need to keep the rage/control bar in the middle. If you deal a lot of damage in a short time, the lichs control lowers, but the rage bar fills. The higher the rage bar goes, the more damage the lich does with weapons. Likewise if you do not deal enough damage,  control bar goes up and the lich becomes extremely calculating which results in a massive buff to all of his abilities.

So in order to beat the lich, you need to balance the bars, or the boss starts kicking everyones rear end around.

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12 minutes ago, Prexades said:

Hmm, that might be an idea for a future update. What if the lichs had 2 bars, one for rage and the other for control.

To beat the lich effectively you need to keep the rage/control bar in the middle. If you deal a lot of damage in a short time, the lichs control lowers, but the rage bar fills. The higher the rage bar goes, the more damage the lich does with weapons. Likewise if you do not deal enough damage,  control bar goes up and the lich becomes extremely calculating which results in a massive buff to all of his abilities.

So in order to beat the lich, you need to balance the bars, or the boss starts kicking everyones rear end around.

That is actually really cool Prexades. You should be proud of that idea. A bar that leans left or right and has different consequences on either side. So players have to balance it. Some cool stuff can be built off that mechanic.

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21 hours ago, (PSN)Wildman537 said:

These new sisters have ridiculous damage reduction, and I do mean insane damage reduction. Here's just ONE example:

http://imgur.com/a/gjiBTJc

Here is a link to a few screenshots I took just a couple min ago on ps4, shown just 6 seconds before attacking the sister is a single stropha shot killing a level 90 shield osprey with 2,053,825 damage, but just a few seconds later, even procing 3 statuses to activate condition overload, I was only able to do a measly 1,274 damage (310~ per instance with mirage clones). That's a 99.94% less damage! 

 While using other weapons like the kuva ogris, or the morgha, i was never able to see a single damage proc over 1k. Most fell around 100-200, before quickly reducing as low as 20-40 damage with sucsessive hits. Im not sure what calculations are in play here, it seems like a max damage per hit has been set mixed with scaling damage reduction from quick sucsessive hits, but this exact build use to 1 shot each health bar of level 5 liches before the update. Now it can barley tickle them. Im curious what everyone elses experiences have been, but i hope its not even worse than my own.

Same here...cant kill my lich even with full squads....

This need to be hotfixed today!

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1 hour ago, Vaml77 said:

Same here...cant kill my lich even with full squads....

This need to be hotfixed today!

You should look for a competent team, then. Recruiting chat and all that, not some random people from the matchmaker.

 

31 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

nah they were and they will be always a box to deliver your new weapon, nothing more

They ARE supposed to be tough. Your opinion is irrelevant to the concept of the system. They're not exactly strong right now, but strong enough for some people to start losing their composure.

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5 hours ago, NecroPed said:

They can definitely be that kind of threat, even at MR30 with 8 years of experience. I've been getting one shot as a strength chroma with active maxed out armour. I've had to run and hide just to extract without killing the sister today because it was impossible to kill 20 hounds and several chroma spectres that spawn on my feet and basically one shot me, just to be able to fight the sister without being cc'd for a solid 5 minutes. 

And in case this is your first thought, no it wasn't radiation team damage. It was solo and my previous radiation sister was far easier to kill as a squishier frame. 

Mmm. Nope.

Pretty easy paradigm, don't rely on passive damage skips.

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You'll find most liches have an active power tailored to directly nullifying active damage reduction, so relying on a single power to carry you through a battle isn't a good idea.

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I honestly am not a fan of the reduced or adaptive damage as some people have said as it makes my one weapon along with any others deal little to no damage (yes I’ve hit for zero) i understand it’s to prevent mass farming but when something that was one doing 50 k damage with the help of a frame it feel worthless to do solo at this point. Overall when the have a resistant damage type I get that but it shouldn’t be spread to the point that it makes the weapon you use unusable 

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7 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

You'll find most liches have an active power tailored to directly nullifying active damage reduction, so relying on a single power to carry you through a battle isn't a good idea.

I wasn't relying on a single power, but ooookay! Nor does it change the fact that one of the tankiest and highest damage dealing frames struggles to deal ANY damage AND struggled to survive against a SINGLE shot. In a fight with multiple hounds, multiple sisters and multiple spectres copying my loadout, all of which basically one shotting me and taking no damage. Something isn't right thats for sure.

And if I can't rely on something like this, what can I rely on? Because I'm sure if my maxed out chroma was struggling then a frame that doesn't have damage/armour buffs sure isnt going to help very much unless it has complete immunity to damage. And even then it doesn't solve the 'i cant deal damage to it' problem.

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3 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

I wasn't relying on a single power, but ooookay! Nor does it change the fact that one of the tankiest and highest damage dealing frames struggles to deal ANY damage AND struggled to survive against a SINGLE shot. In a fight with multiple hounds, multiple sisters and multiple spectres copying my loadout, all of which basically one shotting me and taking no damage. Something isn't right thats for sure.

And if I can't rely on something like this, what can I rely on? Because I'm sure if my maxed out chroma was struggling then a frame that doesn't have damage/armour buffs sure isnt going to help very much unless it has complete immunity to damage. And even then it doesn't solve the 'i cant deal damage to it' problem.

You seem to be under the misperception that I'm in favor of the current system. I'm not. I'm simply telling you what's occurring.

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5 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

I wasn't relying on a single power, but ooookay! Nor does it change the fact that one of the tankiest and highest damage dealing frames struggles to deal ANY damage AND struggled to survive against a SINGLE shot. In a fight with multiple hounds, multiple sisters and multiple spectres copying my loadout, all of which basically one shotting me and taking no damage. Something isn't right thats for sure.

And if I can't rely on something like this, what can I rely on? Because I'm sure if my maxed out chroma was struggling then a frame that doesn't have damage/armour buffs sure isnt going to help very much unless it has complete immunity to damage. And even then it doesn't solve the 'i cant deal damage to it' problem.

idk, maybe ask one of the like 12 people in this thread alone that've burned through multiple liches/sisters already?

It's challenging... that's GOOD.  It's not impossible, though, or else others wouldn't be able to do it.  

We ALL have access to the same gear. :)

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

 

idk, maybe ask one of the like 12 people in this thread alone that've burned through multiple liches/sisters already?

It's challenging... that's GOOD.  It's not impossible, though, or else others wouldn't be able to do it.  

We ALL have access to the same gear. :)

Let me get this straight: I like challenge and I'm not bad at games by any stretch. I did not have trouble with ANY kuva lich, or my first sister, arguably a harder element to deal with(radiation). 

There is definitely issues with the sisters damage dealing and damage reduction.

I had two missions for the same sister that WERE impossible. 20 hounds dealing CC and one shot killing me, stealing my weapons, several sisters one shot killing me, several spectres spawning AT MY FEET AND ONE SHOT KILLING ME. It was the most artificially difficult thing i've ever done in any game. 

 

Whats the point in any of this gear if its just turned off in the fight?

Edited by NecroPed
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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

 

idk, maybe ask one of the like 12 people in this thread alone that've burned through multiple liches/sisters already?

It's challenging... that's GOOD.  It's not impossible, though, or else others wouldn't be able to do it.  

We ALL have access to the same gear. :)

I've gone through 7 sisters, and none of the rank 5 final fights were fun. They boiled down to "how am I gonna circumvent the DR." Application of high DPS falls flat on its face, so the cheese gets taken out.
Cover them in so many Sonar spots they look like a miniature sun, or perma CC with Xaku so I can wail on them.

Challenging no, tedious yes.

Edited by (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom
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I think the issue here is that the challenge isnt making the fight engaging or enjoyable, but tedious. I fought a lich earlier today solo, and while I beat it first try, i still just used my arquebex for 45 seconds instead of 10, just swapping between activating storm shield and guard mode as needed. While I am fine with some DR or resistance applying to lengthen the fight, theres a reason Im not giddy with joy when I hear wolf spawn in. This is no different

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51 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

They ARE supposed to be tough. Your opinion is irrelevant to the concept of the system. They're not exactly strong right now, but strong enough for some people to start losing their composure.

There is no concept. Buffing resistances is the same as buffing armor and health. We have and had the tools to deal with it for years.
A good concept (or at least a slim idea for it) was the glass boss fight.
So no, another lazy implementation for what could have been an interesting boss fight.
Again they are still just a box to deliver your new weapon.
When they implement good mechanics there will be no need to buff their damage or resistance or anything.

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Having had a few more, I've found that although I've appreciated that trying to avoid their attacks can be interesting, I could do without the sponginess.

 

Of course, reduce the DR and they're liable to turn into sisters of tissue paper. I'm hardly the first to say 'maybe DE should do a stat squish', and hopefully DE will listen sooner rather than later.

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