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Helminth once again frustrates veterans.


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Why is it when "vets" on the fourm complain about something they look like they're below a new player in experience and everything else?

5 helminth levels for 5 new abilities it's not that hard of a stretch to get them. Hell ubstarved my helminth befire the update and got 1 level right away and after that was just infusing and removing abilities over and over till a majority of resources are unfavorable feed some sentient materials and wait a day to donit all over again and toss a spare yareli when your dojo gets done researching it. 

I hate how veteran doesn't mean a long time experience player in warframe instead it means people complaining that game and devs aren't bowing down at their feet and giving them everything on a sliver platter. God i cringe calling my self a vet in any capacity cause it means i get lumped in with those players.

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I've played since 2015, and honestly I don't really use the term "veteran" for myself or others. I'm fairly certain that while I consider myself pretty good at warframe, there are likely more than a few souls better than me out there; not that it matters much in the grand scheme of things anyway.

personally I never cared much for the Helminth system as I believe a frame's unique, standard issue kit should be viable, and not requiring us to cut and paste other abilites over it in order to make it viable. it's why I was very concerned when Deimos launched that the Devs would use it as an excuse to avoid reworks; thankfully that hasn't been the case as frames like Xaku and Zephyr got some much needed attention, but I still feel that more could be done. I've levelled my Helminth passively and most of the frames I subsumed are ones who recently got their Prime, like Gara and Octavia. 

I definitely knew we'd have to "work" for those 5 extra ranks regardless. what I didn't expect was needing to farm the slots for weapon Arcanes, but that's another story. 

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33 minutes ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Why is it when "vets" on the fourm complain about something they look like they're below a new player in experience and everything else?

5 helminth levels for 5 new abilities it's not that hard of a stretch to get them. Hell ubstarved my helminth befire the update and got 1 level right away and after that was just infusing and removing abilities over and over till a majority of resources are unfavorable feed some sentient materials and wait a day to donit all over again and toss a spare yareli when your dojo gets done researching it. 

I hate how veteran doesn't mean a long time experience player in warframe instead it means people complaining that game and devs aren't bowing down at their feet and giving them everything on a sliver platter. God i cringe calling my self a vet in any capacity cause it means i get lumped in with those players.

Bow down minions, even   g4tEK.jpg          SeMz4.gif

 

Yeah Veteran means jack in this game, MR means jack in this game, it's just something they think makes them cool when typing it. :tongue:

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12 hours ago, vanaukas said:

If only veterans weren't drowning on resources, wich is why they are called veterans...

Maybe you’re missing the part where if they have subsumed all Warframe already they are permanently locked out of receiving xp that is rightfully theirs if they have subsumed frames after reaching helminth rank 10.

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7 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Maybe you’re missing the part where if they have subsumed all Warframe already they are permanently locked out of receiving xp that is rightfully theirs if they have subsumed frames after reaching helminth rank 10.

Maybe youmissed the aprt that Invigorations and feeding after doing Invigorations gives XP, if you do 3 plus feeding you gain 1 level (and a little more for the next one). I had already every frame subsumed (only missing Yareli right now) prior this update. So no, you aren't "locked out" or anything, stop spreading lies ffs

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grind resources, have helly inject new abilities/remove them, feed, repeat and do the weekly invigorations.  this is by far the best way to gain the helminth xp, not so much the subsuming

if you have plat, buy the resource boosters, doubler and drop chance, they definitely are worth it.  and some nice mr30-legends can even further give the drop chance blessings in a relay

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14 hours ago, PhreazerBurn said:

Again, veterans have in many cases subsumed all or most warframes well past the point where they were getting any XP, and they will be forced into infusing/feeding pointlessly. Newer players going forward can easily hit helminth 15 entirely with subsuming.

damn, i second that!

DE should add all the extra XP we got for helminth after we got him to max - because it's obvious that player put EVERY frame into him, given enough time (which we sure had). so now we can feed him tons of resources to upgrade him further (or wait for new frames t feed him)... i mean, really? didn't anyone at DE ever bothered to check on all the data they collect to notice how many player already have every frame put into helminth? it's not that i have any problem feeding him millions of resources, but it sure is a kick in nuts that other players who are still 'only' on their way of leveling helminth up now have a far easier time to get to the new maximum.

therefore: use you head DE! it really is an obvious problem the way you did this. to a lesser extend this is the same BS as with the last rank command in RJ though that at least only takes some more runs to fill up and those can be done at any time compared to frames that we can't feed to helminth anymore. in short: let experience accumulate further, even if the max-cap is already reached, so that in case you DO up the cap, the progress will instantly be there... keep in mind that that is already the case in other parts of the game, so it's nothing new or unheard of.

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13 hours ago, PhreazerBurn said:

I am MR29. While I do have more resources of some types than I will likely ever need (nano spores, I'm looking at you), others I still have barely enough of. I was Orokin Cell farming last week. Furthermore, Helminth is very punishing even to a fairly big resource excess if you choose to force it. I thought I had so many nav coordinates, but those have been more than half used already because bile is such a pain.

Not really accurate. An infuse+feed is about 2k XP...or about 3% of the level 10-15 grind. And again, force feeding is very punishing.

First of all, I do not appreciate the intentionally inflammatory nature of this post. No surprise. Nearly any time someone uses the term "entitled" you can usually expect flamebait to follow. Its not even an accurate usage of the word. Entitled is expecting something for nothing. If I was in line to buy a burger, and I paid $2 for that burger and the next person in line got the same burger for $1 I'd be upset...and not because I was entitled but because its unreasonable.

Not only do retroactive compensations happen in games, they have happened in this game...several times...including recently. They changed railjack. Everyone who was invested in the old system got a pile of materials to get them approximately back to where they were. They balanced melee this week. Everyone who was invested into that system got a few things to soften the blow and account for the losses.

I'm not lazy. I'm not entitled. But I have (unintentionally) made the level 15 grind much slower and more tedious for myself by not "knowing" this was going to happen and saving all those base warframes to subsume now and not over the last few months. I've already done the work. I just want to get credit for it.

Sounds an awful lot to me OP, like you're not actually a veteran like you seem to think. And sure enough, checking your profile confirms that seeing as you've only played 800 hours. So instead of claiming it's unfair to veterans of which you have no personal experience with, I suggest you knuckle down and farm instead and get a few more hours under your belt.

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14 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

It's funny because the most intelligent veterans will complain that updates are too shallow, and don't last long enough, or sustain interest. 

But then we have other so called "vets" in this thread, and in the official feedback threads for Helminth, whinging that everything wasn't handed to them the moment the update landed. 

It's kind of sad. Like people can whine all they want about how they think they should be given that xp because it was "extra" but the whole point of extra level caps in this game, or other MMO's, is to actually give you something to do, while you are playing the game, and a new goal to fight for, and that is what people are missing.

When WoW released new level caps over the years, it didn't matter how dedicated a player you were previously or how much "extra xp" you had earned over the years past the level cap. You still had to grind for those next levels to reach the new cap.

Because even for the whales, a big part of adding new levels and caps is to actually give you something new to do and fight for.

The point of video games is literally to play them.

So why just give people stuff for logging in, because there wasn't any xp for there actions to go to before?

You need them to play the game. Not arguing with you, just expanding on what you said, so there is no misunderstanding. 

It amazes me how people cannot get this basic concept. 

A part of me thinks it's the typical BS attempt: "if I whine, and get others to whine with me, then I can get DE to gimme stuff faster". I'm not sure these attempts are coming from adults...I'm hopeful that these attempts aren't coming from adults. If they are, then all I can say is wow.

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36 minutes ago, fr4gb4ll said:

damn, i second that!

DE should add all the extra XP we got for helminth after we got him to max - because it's obvious that player put EVERY frame into him, given enough time (which we sure had). so now we can feed him tons of resources to upgrade him further (or wait for new frames t feed him)... i mean, really? didn't anyone at DE ever bothered to check on all the data they collect to notice how many player already have every frame put into helminth? it's not that i have any problem feeding him millions of resources, but it sure is a kick in nuts that other players who are still 'only' on their way of leveling helminth up now have a far easier time to get to the new maximum.

therefore: use you head DE! it really is an obvious problem the way you did this. to a lesser extend this is the same BS as with the last rank command in RJ though that at least only takes some more runs to fill up and those can be done at any time compared to frames that we can't feed to helminth anymore. in short: let experience accumulate further, even if the max-cap is already reached, so that in case you DO up the cap, the progress will instantly be there... keep in mind that that is already the case in other parts of the game, so it's nothing new or unheard of.

Keep in mind that you also received the rewards for that xp already. You're asking for a triple handout: Returned xp from rewarded subsumed ability, ranking and now current rewards. That's a very selfish ask. Earn it again, THERE IS NO RUSH!

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vor 14 Stunden schrieb Tesseract7777:

It's funny because the most intelligent veterans will complain that updates are too shallow, and don't last long enough, or sustain interest.

You mean instead of reworking Frames who really needs it with shallow RNG Buffs to "get them played" because they suck so much? Yep thats no content which sustain interest.

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Tesseract7777:

When WoW released new level caps over the years, it didn't matter how dedicated a player you were previously or how much "extra xp" you had earned over the years past the level cap. You still had to grind for those next levels to reach the new cap.

It seems you're not able to grasp the MMO Level Logic in comparison to Warframe Level here. If you want to compare Players Levels like in WoW you should compare them at least with the Mastery Rank here not with a sidequest system DE slapped into the game because they are too lazy to buff the Frames or reworking their cores.

With you logic shown above no EXP gained for the Mastery Rank should carry over once you reach your Max Rank before the Rank up. Yes, thats literally what you're writing.

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3 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Maybe you’re missing the part where if they have subsumed all Warframe already they are permanently locked out of receiving xp that is rightfully theirs if they have subsumed frames after reaching helminth rank 10.

the invigorations give exp, infusing abilities give exp and feed helminth gives exp. There's still ways to earn xp and it's only 5 levels 

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Well, it doesn't matter to me that I have zillions of resources and could use them to get to Helminth level 15. That I even can't use them for anything else changes nothing. Because for me this is simply unfair. It is the opposite of treating everyone equally, which is a basic (or even the most basic) tenet of any society that aspires to fairness.

DE doesn't count XP/standing for me, but allows other players XP/standing for doing the same thing. Whichever way you look at that, it is simply unfair. Players are not treated equally. I would have no problem with losing my "extra" XP/standing from before, if DE allowed me the same chance other players get to gather it again. But DE stops me from getting the same XP/standing that other players are allowed to gather and profit from. That really and blatantly underlines the unfairness.

From an IRL comparison (but without getting into specifics) just about anyone will know that there is no way to explain unfairness away. Be it gender, the colour of your skin or any other non-relevant factor, there is no way out other than to apologize and promise to "fix it".  And I am not talking about "millennial thin skin-hurt" and "me, me, me" here, but simply about treating people differently according some arbitrary reason.

The reason nothing else will resolve that stuff is because basic unfairness really gets under our skins. We humans can accept unfairness when we are the perpetrators and we can accept it when we are bystanders. In both cases we often try to handle it by explaining it away, because even if it happens to someone else it is just plain wrong. The only ones able to embrace the unfair treatment of others are the ones with a worldview that puts them on top, and we know how nuts those nutters all are.

So I hope that DE is really thinking this through, because all of us affected by this dumb decision will never ever forget it, and even those that forgive and play on will be affected. Unfair is unfair, and the only solution is to say sorry and fix it. 

And the fix is easy: just unlock the possibility of subsuming a warframe for the second time as soon as all warframes are subsumed (and this time not counting Yareli). That will allow those that subsumed all warframes to gather the missing XP/standing the same way other players now can. Sure, we would not be able to count all that XP/standing we gathered when already at max, but that risk was ours to take. It is not allowing us the same opportunity as others to gather the XP/standing that is unfair, and this would fix it. Easily and logically.

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16 hours ago, vanaukas said:

If only veterans weren't drowning on resources, wich is why they are called veterans...

Pretty much, I spam fed it resources and swapped the same two skills in and out and hit 15 pretty quick. People that rushed to mastery rank 30 and have no resources to back it up, compared to people like myself or those in my clan who have been playing for 7+ years aren't really "veterans". 

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Topic of thread: hahaha.... no. Not an issue.

Basis of thread:

  • "I'm MR29 veteran" but in reality been playing for less than 3 years and approx. 800 hours.

What a joke.

I've played with MR15 people using Excalibur Prime, they don't call themself "veteran". I've seen players with thousands of hours of playtime, they don't consider themselves vets either---they prefer "completionist". I have a big-brain feeling when I teach MR30 players something they didn't know, but I am not a veteran. At best "I can handle myself" is my performance and/or skill level.

Leveling Helminth:

I am comfortable modding and experimenting with different Helminth combinations. After Maining Khora for so long, now I just goof off with whomever I have a feeling for. Recently I play with Gauss Max Range and bang my head into walls to collect all the loots (REAL big brain stuff), and using the same thing over and over gets boring so of course Helminth will get used.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to bang my head against a wall use my big brain and collect unecessary loots from Warframe Twitch Community Streamers. Good day.

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3 hours ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

the invigorations give exp, infusing abilities give exp and feed helminth gives exp. There's still ways to earn xp and it's only 5 levels 

Thats still significantly less xp than a subsumed frame. And it doesn’t resolve the issue of veterans very clearly being screwed out of XP that is rightfully theirs.

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As a "veteran" I can easily say this...

 

I don't care for helminth I named it space tumor after being forced to get the segment just to shut the gameup about it and then promptly gave it the finger and locked that door.

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4 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Thats still significantly less xp than a subsumed frame. And it doesn’t resolve the issue of veterans very clearly being screwed out of XP that is rightfully theirs.

You're not getting screwed out of anything. YOU have the subsumed abilities, right? Others don't yet. You have the luxury of customizing your warframes in much more diverse ways...they can't.

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23 hours ago, PhreazerBurn said:

The first round of pain for veterans was needing to rebuild all the warframes we sold through the years for a few measly credits. New players got to send their non-prime straight to Helmith with no wasted time or effort.

Now there's the new 5 levels to helminth. Again, veterans have in many cases subsumed all or most warframes well past the point where they were getting any XP, and they will be forced into infusing/feeding pointlessly. Newer players going forward can easily hit helminth 15 entirely with subsuming.

In both cases, the extra time and effort and resources required of veterans is only adding tedium and frustration...not fun, and the burden on them is unnecessary. Its the sort of design decision that contributes to players losing interest in a game. The only explanation I've seen is a vague reference to it being the sort of implementation seen in MMOs. Not only is this only sometimes true, but its always a bad strategy. Funneling players en masse towards tedious, retread content only leads to dissatisfaction.

Please reconsider.

You just F'ed up reaaaal bad.

Incoming fire..😆 

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

You're not getting screwed out of anything. YOU have the subsumed abilities, right? Others don't yet. You have the luxury of customizing your warframes in much more diverse ways...they can't.

People got Helminth experience for every Warframe they fed to him. For every Warframe they fed after reaching rank 10 they didn’t get xp because they were at max rank. Now DE is adding 5 more ranks and those people who have fed all the frames are not being given the helminth xp that they rightfully deserve because they already fed the frames to helminth.

It would be like if DE delayed a new mastery rank up to a week after it would be reachable. And the people who already leveled the new weapons that would get them to that mastery weren’t given the Mastery XP that they rightfully earned when the test is finally added.

Edited by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301
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Not really a significant problem , i will not even be bothering with the new abilities cause they look lackluster to me , and i do not suffer acutely from FOMO.

And as pointed out invigorations will give near about 1 rank per week , and we have yareli still to be subsumed so less than 4 weeks, plus i plan to have an ability on each invigorated frame to match its new stats (which will be removed later) so i expect it to be even lesser time.

I am more pissed about the concept of invigorations though , rivens for warframes was something i always opposed.

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