Helminth once again frustrates veterans.

[Tesseract7777]

26 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

You disagreeing with OP got you less than half his likes. Discounting the vultures, there might be about 5 or so left.

I already told you I don't care whether my opinion is the majority or minority, and considering how few people read the forums, popularity of ideas on the forums means little.

I was just pointing out that your rhetoric that it is me against the world is ludicrous, and it is. 

If it was me against the world I would have no likes, and post after post tearing me a new one. 

[Traumtulpe]

15 minutes ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

You can't just say whose opinion is valid and whose isn't.

The opinion on something by somebody not affected by it isn't relevant, is it?

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

19 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Sorry.  What I'm clumsily trying to get at is that I'm just curious that there's no other combinations of frames and powers you can infuse?  Speaking only for myself, there's no rush to max out Helminth again, and there's at least an option for getting there eventually.  I've gone for years without collecting all the Kuria Kitties for the statue, I can survive waiting another month to get Golden Instinct for my "Treasure Hunter Khora" loadout.

I’m not in a rush to max it out, but it’s mildly irritating that the xp I got from feeding frames is forever lost.

As for exhausting combos, I doubt anyone has truly done that. But many of the frames I actively use (and ones that I don’t) already have an infuse on them. Helminth has been out for quite a while, so I’ve done most of the combines that interest me. Gloom is a very good infuse yes, especially now that we have a paragon mod that gives a “free” 50% strength.

I get why DE doesn’t want to “refund” XP (don’t want people burning through content), and I’m not hugely up in arms about getting compensated for it, but I would’ve appreciated at least being compensated for wasted xp from feeding frames.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

5 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

The opinion on something by somebody not affected by it isn't relevant, is it?

Their opinion isn't relevant, yes. The problem is that you don't know whether or not these people are affected by the issue, and are instead assuming that their must be a portion of people who agree with them that are simply here to listen to people whine.

Likewise, someone on my side of things could assume that there are people who like the OP, who aren't affected, but simply wanna hate on DE because they contracted an opinion from a YouTuber. Both would be dishonest, and both are just engaging in a pointless popularity contest, when popularity doesn't support whether or not retroactive xp is a good idea.

You could even prove that a user is the only person with an opinion, but that doesn't invalidate their opinion, because the majority is also vulnerable to believing in stupid ideas.

[EmberStar]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Gloom is a very good infuse yes, especially now that we have a paragon mod that gives a “free” 50% strength.

Out of curiosity, what mod?  I'm not great at min/max and I don't watch the "build" content creators.  Just Tactical Potato, and he doesn't do build videos anymore.  So I'm not sure what mod you're referring to.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Just now, EmberStar said:

Out of curiosity, what mod?  I'm not great at min/max and I don't watch the "build" content creators.  Just Tactical Potato, and he doesn't do build videos anymore.  So I'm not sure what mod you're referring to.

[EmberStar]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Oh.  Okay.  I find Parazon kills to still be *super* unreliable.  I've been *trying* to get them, and most of the time when they pop up the enemy is dead anyway as I either finish the melee combo or they just have a heart attack and die from all the status that's built up.  Heat and Slash are both sneaky like that, especially with weapons that can pile a ton of procs.  Heavy Grineer/Corrupted - nothing nothing nothing nothing ow ow OW (mercy) OW *ded*

[Graavarg]

2 hours ago, EmberStar said:

By your "logic," Netflix owes me a few hundred dollars - I've been subscribed continuously for years, but sometimes I go for months without taking the time to watch anything during a given month.  I didn't use the benefits I paid for, I demand compensation!  Except that's not how it works.  I paid for the *potential* to log on and watch whatever is in their library at any time.  NOT using that benefit is, in fact, entirely my fault.

No. 😀 😁

What the logic actually says is in "Netflix terms" is that since I had a subscription last month when movie X was available I will not be allowed to watch it this month even though I still have my ongoing subscription. Millions of new Netflix users that did not have a subscription last month will still be allowed to watch it, but those that already had a subscription last month won't.

Look, I have no idea why you want to squabble about this. Your are entitled to your own view, and if you think what DE did is ok I couldn't care less. Trying a dumb strawman is just completely unnecessary. And no, this has nothing to do with Netflix. And making up all kinds of silly "explanations" in retrospect changes nothing.

Instead this is one of those "it is what it is"-things, no amount of BS or twisted logic will change this into anything else. I am not allowed to gather and use standing that other players are allowed to gather and use. It is that simple, and it is all pure unadulterated fact. Anyone should be able to get it. And according to me that is an unfair practice from DE. That is ALL there is to this, nothing else.

That DE's own reasoning is bogus isn't even important, because you can't defend being unfair by saying that "others do it". Which is the world's silliest excuse all by itself, but even when you break it down I know of no other MMO where you would remove XP from players and stop them from re-gaining it while allowing other players to gain  and use that identical XP. Haven't happened anywhere, as far as I know.

I have gazillions of resources and can get to lvl 15 easily, but even that changes nothing. Because the way DE implemented this is simply unfair, it just is.

[(XBOX)Deputy Facepain]

I think this threads title need to be changed. You have a problem with the system. Plenty of other long time players may, or may not agree. I think it’s an inconsequential change to things, just something else to do. Bum rushing content usually isn’t in your best interest when playing WF. The grind almost always gets easier.   Speak fo yo self!

[EmberStar]

44 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

Look, I have no idea why you want to squabble about this. Your are entitled to your own view, and if you think what DE did is ok I couldn't care less. Trying a dumb strawman is just completely unnecessary. And no, this has nothing to do with Netflix. And making up all kinds of silly "explanations" in retrospect changes nothing.

I don't.  You are the one who decided to pick a fight by making up absurd examples.  You seem awfully willing to be both aggressive and insulting for someone who "couldn't care less."

I'd say you care a LOT, and in normal Internet fashion have decided that everyone who doesn't agree with you is an enemy to be defeated.  Take your own advice.

[EmberStar]

49 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

No. 😀 😁

What the logic actually says is in "Netflix terms" is that since I had a subscription last month when movie X was available I will not be allowed to watch it this month even though I still have my ongoing subscription. Millions of new Netflix users that did not have a subscription last month will still be allowed to watch it, but those that already had a subscription last month won't.

 

For the record, Netflix actually *does* this.  All the time.  They do it via region locking, but there are dozens of movies and series available in the UK right now that were available in the US, but aren't anymore.  And vice versa.  And before you start throwing "strawman!" around, look up the term.  I don't think it means what you think it means.

[Krankbert]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb EmberStar:

I don't.  You are the one who decided to pick a fight by making up absurd examples.  You seem awfully willing to be both aggressive and insulting for someone who "couldn't care less."

I'd say you care a LOT, and in normal Internet fashion have decided that everyone who doesn't agree with you is an enemy to be defeated.  Take your own advice.

I'll never understand why people think someone must care a lot about their opinion just because they aren't polite to them. You'd have to be a massive narcissist to think some random forum user is heavily invested in your opinion.

[EmberStar]

1 hour ago, Krankbert said:

I'll never understand why people think someone must care a lot about their opinion just because they aren't polite to them. You'd have to be a massive narcissist to think some random forum user is heavily invested in your opinion.

I'm not a skilled writer, but I'll attempt to clarify anyway.  I think the person I was responding to cares about THEIR opinion a lot.  I don't think they even know who I am except "someone who disagrees with them."  I'm pretty sure they responded to my post for the same reason it appears you did - you wanted to piss on something, and my post was conveniently just right there.

I know for a fact that no one cares what I think.  I took a break and stopped posting on the forum for months.  No one cared that I left.  Even fewer cared that I came back.

[Lullypumpsie]

I didnt get problems with rebuilding my stuff, i like to investigate new builds/mechanics. 

And I doubt real veterans have problems getting Helminth XP. This is some kind of content, If I may say so.

I would not say loudly "Its the sort of design decision that contributes to players losing interest in a game" All players are different

[Graavarg]

8 hours ago, EmberStar said:

And before you start throwing "strawman!" around, look up the term.

For the record (to avoid a discussion about this specific logical fallacy): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

The short version (from Wikipedia): "A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one."

And some "strawmen": 

• "Players who subsumed all the Warframes had access to a huge selection of powers." [false, access to powers has nothing to do with the actual argument]
• "If you didn't choose to USE that potential, that's not a fault of the mechanic." [false, using or not using abilities has nothing to do with the actual argument]
• "Were you really *that* desperate to free up Warframe slots?" [false, freeing slots or "being desperate" has nothing to do with the actual argument]
• "If you really didn't care about the powers..." [false, what I care or not care about has nothing to do with the actual argument] 

Now these are from a single post. And just to be crystal on the actual argument: DE hindering some players from getting standing and benefiting from it while allowing other players to get and benefit from that exact same standing is basically unfair. It is no big deal, there are other ways to get more standing, but it is still "unfair". All players should be able (have the equal opportunity) to get the same standing from doing the same thing, that is inherently fair. The opposite is unfair. It just is.

If your opinion is that this is is "fair" (even if you can't "prove" it), that is completely fine by me. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. And if you want to claim/show that DE's way of handling this really IS fair, feel free to do so. But then do so without introducing all kinds of made-up, after-the-fact rationales (in the form of "strawmen"), and leave all the soft sh*t ("feelings", "choices", "possibilities", "wants", "needs") and Netflix out of it. Whether this is fair or not is not a semantic question, it's about logic and principles (of fairness and equality, about treating everyone equally and giving them the same opportunities). 

However, my suggestion would be to just leave this question behind and move on. I will consider it unfair and unequal forever, you can consider it fair and equal forever. Again, no big deal, we just have a different definition of "fair" and "equal".

[-CdG-Zilchy]

This thread has been over ever since I called OP out on his BS claims by posting a pic of his profile with his true hours played. Haven't seen him in here since lol

[ShortCat]

On 2021-07-11 at 8:01 PM, EmberStar said:

As others have pointed out, those of us that subsumed all the 'frames more or less right away DID get a benefit though.

It is not a "benefit" to prevliged few, but the intended outcome and the sole reason to engage with Helmith in the first place. By your logic the reason to invest in Helminth is the same reason players are punished now. And will be punished with the next expansion.

[Krankbert]

Oooh, are we doing logical fallacies?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, refers to several types of arguments, some but not all of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion to some irrelevant but often highly charged issue. The most common form of this fallacy is "A makes a claim x, B asserts that A holds a property that is unwelcome, and hence B concludes that argument x is wrong".

End quote. Most people think an ad hominem argument is the same as being insulting, but it’s not.

Example from the thread:

vor 6 Stunden schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

This thread has been over ever since I called OP out on his BS claims by posting a pic of his profile with his true hours played. Haven't seen him in here since lol

„You have less than an arbitrary amount of hours played, therefore your argument is invalid.“

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Wth.....

This thread is still going? And looks off rail so thread lock?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 hours ago, Krankbert said:

„You have less than an arbitrary amount of hours played, therefore your argument is invalid.“

Not quite, I never accused him of that. He CLAIMED to have 4000 hours and to be speaking from that point of view. I called him out on his BS and he vanished from his own thread. *poof*

[Graavarg]

4 hours ago, Krankbert said:

Oooh, are we doing logical fallacies?

😀

Just gotta say I do love logic, even informal logic (with the exception of conductive reasoning, which is actually "fake logic"). Probably has to do with being in a class that from 7th to 9th grade was taught math based on set theory (Cantor etc.) and logical reasoning, as a sort of formally approved test/experiment to improve math education. Set theory didn't get to supersede normal school algebra (maybe unfortunately), but it sure rearranged my internal wiring (for the better).

[Graavarg]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

This thread is still going? And looks off rail so thread lock?

Nah, why lock a thread even if it's just a bunch of vets still exchanging views. Quite politely, by current internet standards. And every now and then even touching on the actual subject. Not that I would mind, I think we are more or less done.

[fr4gb4ll]

On 2021-07-10 at 7:11 PM, vanaukas said:

If you install the helminth upgrade segment, wich allows you to use Invigorations, you'll get 3 invigrations per week. Each invigration gives exp, plus the feeding after doing them (because they cost resources). You get 1 level (and a little more) doing the 3 Invigrations per week plus the feeding. I'm not taking into account Yareli for susbsume and replacing abilities, wich at least me, it's something I do commonly since I like to play the game and test stuff. Qhat's questionable in this design, if the new system gives enough exp and using helminth itself gives exp?

any specific reason why you 'quoted' me and than do an edit on my quote? that's a arsehead move, worse than quoting out of context - just because DEs forum mechanic allows that BS doesn't mean you should do it - regardless of intention you want to bring over it.

also, the Invigrations are just another way to increase it, one that everyone else (who not yet feed every frame into helminth) also can use - therefore this argument is void.

[vanaukas]

3 minutes ago, fr4gb4ll said:

any specific reason why you 'quoted' me and than do an edit on my quote? that's a arsehead move, worse than quoting out of context - just because DEs forum mechanic allows that BS doesn't mean you should do it - regardless of intention you want to bring over it.

also, the Invigrations are just another way to increase it, one that everyone else (who not yet feed every frame into helminth) also can use - therefore this argument is void.

The only thing I edited was deleting the things I wasn't interested on laughing on. I'm in level 13 on Helminth right now and I didn't even did all the invigorations I had available and I had every frame subsumed except Yraeli prior that update, wich contributed to last week exp. Invigorations gives more exp that subsuming a frame tho.

Remember to hold on finishing the invigorations, because devs are going to add more stuff, so keep waiting! /s

[fr4gb4ll]

29 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

The only thing I edited was deleting the things I wasn't interested on laughing on. I'm in level 13 on Helminth right now and I didn't even did all the invigorations I had available and I had every frame subsumed except Yraeli prior that update, wich contributed to last week exp. Invigorations gives more exp that subsuming a frame tho.

Remember to hold on finishing the invigorations, because devs are going to add more stuff, so keep waiting! /s

well, the part that was in bold and underlined wasn't anything i wrote though - and double checked that (just in case i was drunk or something when i wrote) because it sure didn't sound like what i would write... if you just edit it to shorten, that's ok, though you can just quote any part of a post by marking it and then click the 'quote selection' option. what you did though was summarizing my post (and in a wrong way too) then making it extra visual by bolding & underlining this incorrect summarization - at least you spared me the italic on it ^^)

in any case, don't do this kind of hack-slashing/summarizing way of quoting since it might get you in serious trouble if you ever do this in a professional, scientific work (like dissertation) - beside that, it's just bad manner of communication.