Helminth once again frustrates veterans.

[vanaukas]

1 minute ago, fr4gb4ll said:

well, the part that was in bold and underlined wasn't anything i wrote though - and double checked that (just in case i was drunk or something when i wrote) because it sure didn't sound like what i would write... if you just edit it to shorten, that's ok, though you can just quote any part of a post by marking it and then click the 'quote selection' option. what you did though was summarizing my post (and in a wrong way too) then making it extra visual by bolding & underlining this incorrect summarization - at least you spared me the italic on it ^^)

in any case, don't do this kind of hack-slashing/summarizing way of quoting since it might get you in serious trouble if you ever do this in a professional, scientific work (like dissertation) - beside that, it's just bad manner of communication.

AH that too, I should've added that I wanted to remark the funniest thing in that comment. Good thing we aren't in a professional, scientifick work (like dissertation), but in a public forum for a game.

[fr4gb4ll]

2 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

AH that too, I should've added that I wanted to remark the funniest thing in that comment. Good thing we aren't in a professional, scientifick work (like dissertation), but in a public forum for a game.

indeed - still it's a bad way to write. and no, i'm not pissed about it, just wnated to point it out, else i would have reported it straight away (not sure if it's against the forum rules or not but it very well might be). just be carefull in the future, ok?

on topic: we seem to have different opinions about the way DE handles this issue but that's ok and ofc it would be no big matter to even get the new ranks by resource feeding only - it's just that i don't like DE doing changes (even good ones) without regarding the numerous consequences...again... they done this all the time for years in many other ways too and usually alienating quite a lot of players with it. they should just take an hour or two and 'think' about those consequences before putting it into the game - that's all.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

This whole thing is the same as the time DE introduced the Helminth system. Many already sold their mastered warframe then had to go acquire them a second time only to feed it to the helminth. 

[Venus-Venera]

Am 13.7.2021 um 04:28 schrieb Lullipompsie:

I didnt get problems with rebuilding my stuff, i like to investigate new builds/mechanics. 

And I doubt real veterans have problems getting Helminth XP. This is some kind of content, If I may say so.

I would not say loudly "Its the sort of design decision that contributes to players losing interest in a game" All players are different

With the loot frame, auto scan and booster you can level it super fast.
ONLY WHY?

did anyone even find out about new skills? this is the last garbage!

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

On 2021-07-22 at 1:24 PM, fr4gb4ll said:

on topic: we seem to have different opinions about the way DE handles this issue but that's ok and ofc it would be no big matter to even get the new ranks by resource feeding only - it's just that i don't like DE doing changes (even good ones) without regarding the numerous consequences...again... they done this all the time for years in many other ways too and usually alienating quite a lot of players with it. they should just take an hour or two and 'think' about those consequences before putting it into the game - that's all.

Why do you, and other posters like yourself, always make the baseless assumption that the PROFESSIONAL GAME DEVS that've kept a F2P game going on multiple platforms for over 8 years DIDN'T "give it some thought" before updating?

Just seems like some seriously flawed logic to come to that conclusion. 

More likely is that they DID give it thought, and decided ANYWAY to proceed, and YOU just don't like the outcome. 

And you're allowed your opinion, of course...  but to make such accusations as fact, with so much conviction based on nothing but your own opinion... seems like a poor way to start a conversation.

 

[(PSN)max141064]

Quote

Helminth once again frustrates veterans.

[Slayer-.]

I've nearly maxed it out 15 is the next rank, I've just been doing the Invigorations so what's the drama.

s

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

28 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

I've nearly maxed it out 15 is the next rank, I've just been doing the Invigorations so what's the drama.

s

Some people in the community literally think all new content should just have immediate access on day one. Something they had no idea existed until they were told about it means they're entitled right away apparently. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

Well, I'm a "Vet" and haven't consumed all my Warframes yet, but I did notice something rather odd. They give less XP now?

 

I mean, the only thing I'd like is have the cost reduced just a tat, but that's just my personal feeling

[Slayer-.]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Some people in the community literally think all new content should just have immediate access on day one. Something they had no idea existed until they were told about it means they're entitled right away apparently. 

Yep some are, I'd already consumed all my Warframes so the only way I've found is just use the Invigorations to rank up, I'll most likely finish it off when they rotate again next week, I'm in no hurry to hit 15.

[Kaotyke]

On 2021-07-22 at 3:58 PM, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

This whole thing is the same as the time DE introduced the Helminth system. Many already sold their mastered warframe then had to go acquire them a second time only to feed it to the helminth. 

Or when DE introduces a weapon that requires another build to make it. So if you sold it or are attached to it, you must make a new one.

This is a very old thing.

[Vaml77]

loki subsumed skill its a perfect example of uselles....loki need reworks and a lot other frames.

I can count on my finger how many good skills helminth worth use...45/46 frames and less than 10 skills....

[_COY_]

On 2021-07-08 at 4:14 AM, PhreazerBurn said:

(...) In both cases, the extra time and effort and resources required of veterans is only adding tedium and frustration...not fun (...)

Please reconsider.

I totally disagree.
In both cases I was in the same position and it doesn't frustrate me et all.
I just play the game and don't expect to get everything for free after several month of development from DE.
Farming the 30+ Frames again was fun (except Nidus and a few other)
More 'to do' in game is always better as a veteran MR30/31. I really don't see why you complain about it.
With the new invigorations you'll be lvl15 within 3-4weeks... that is fair enough for me.
 

-c0y

[Hypernaut1]

29 minutes ago, _COY_ said:

I totally disagree.
In both cases I was in the same position and it doesn't frustrate me et all.
I just play the game and don't expect to get everything for free after several month of development from DE.
Farming the 30+ Frames again was fun (except Nidus and a few other)
More 'to do' in game is always better as a veteran MR30/31. I really don't see why you complain about it.
With the new invigorations you'll be lvl15 within 3-4weeks... that is fair enough for me.
 

-c0y

This is how I see it. I actually like having things to do and level as a vet. I would hate if things were just given to me. 

I guess it also helps that I still have tons of things left to do, so I'm never really stuck grinding for one thing, just to bored after. 

[stormy505]

Although this specifically doesn't bother me. It does bring up another issue I've had with Warframe.

It feels like it's just better to come play new content 6 months after it comes out so de gets all their nerfs, qol etc etc out of the way. You end up saving a bunch of time by avoiding new content until people rushing it effectively play test it and then the devs "fix" it.

 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

15 hours ago, stormy505 said:

Although this specifically doesn't bother me. It does bring up another issue I've had with Warframe.

It feels like it's just better to come play new content 6 months after it comes out so de gets all their nerfs, qol etc etc out of the way. You end up saving a bunch of time by avoiding new content until people rushing it effectively play test it and then the devs "fix" it.

 

More or less this is the ideal situation. That's why we console players love the PC beta tester so much. Let them have all the fun suffering through the bugs, grind, annoyance, grievances before we get the update. With crossplay on the horizon, I'm guessing everybody is going to suffer the latest updates regardless of platform being played on.

[ShortCat]

17 hours ago, _COY_ said:

I just play the game and don't expect to get everything for free

16 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I would hate if things were just given to me. 

It is not free though. The EXP for subsume requires a subsume - a definitive & finite action. The difference is, that now some players don't get any creddit for said action... ever, simply because they engaged with Helminth earlier.

[Emolition]

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

It is not free though. The EXP for subsume requires a subsume - a definitive & finite action. The difference is, that now some players don't get any creddit for said action... ever, simply because they engaged with Helminth earlier.

The invigirations give pretty good exp I decided to go that route instead and claiming all 3 buffs weekly. Each buff grant 4.4k exp + what ever the feeding grants when you refill him. So get around 1 and half level per week just from those.

[ShortCat]

1 hour ago, Emolition said:

The invigirations give pretty good exp I decided to go that route instead and claiming all 3 buffs weekly. Each buff grant 4.4k exp + what ever the feeding grants when you refill him. So get around 1 and half level per week just from those.

This is not just about how fast somebody can or cannot reach max Helminth rank. This incident sets up a pretty negative precident against the player base. If you do not get this, then you very much deserve what you will get further down the line.

[Tsukinoki]

16 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

This is not just about how fast somebody can or cannot reach max Helminth rank. This incident sets up a pretty negative precident against the player base. If you do not get this, then you very much deserve what you will get further down the line.

And which sort of precedent does this set?
I mean if you're going to go full slippery slope you might as well start by saying what horrible things such a minor action will cause in the future.

 

I mean sure are we minorly inconvenienced by this change?  Maybe.
Is it the end of the world?  No.
Does it in any way prevent us from hitting rank 15?  No.
Does it in any way make hitting rank 15 take longer for us compared to someone starting helminth fresh?  I highly doubt that.

IF either of the last two points were a hard yes then maybe you might have a point that this is setting a bad precedent.
As it stands this is hardly even an annoyance.

 

You mention how we are missing credit for an action...and I just return with: That action wasn't inherently worth that much credit to begin with and doesn't really make too much of an impact.

[FrostDragoon]

On 2021-07-07 at 7:14 PM, PhreazerBurn said:

The first round of pain for veterans was needing to rebuild all the warframes we sold through the years for a few measly credits. New players got to send their non-prime straight to Helmith with no wasted time or effort.

Now there's the new 5 levels to helminth. Again, veterans have in many cases subsumed all or most warframes well past the point where they were getting any XP, and they will be forced into infusing/feeding pointlessly. Newer players going forward can easily hit helminth 15 entirely with subsuming.

In both cases, the extra time and effort and resources required of veterans is only adding tedium and frustration...not fun, and the burden on them is unnecessary. Its the sort of design decision that contributes to players losing interest in a game. The only explanation I've seen is a vague reference to it being the sort of implementation seen in MMOs. Not only is this only sometimes true, but its always a bad strategy. Funneling players en masse towards tedious, retread content only leads to dissatisfaction.

Please reconsider.

 

On 2021-07-07 at 7:16 PM, vanaukas said:

If only veterans weren't drowning on resources, wich is why they are called veterans...

I agree that having to refarm frames I sold over the years really sucks, especially since some of them are *really* bad/dumb farms, but the other side of it is that we veterans are more capable of doing basically anything we want in the game. It's tedious and poorly designed for sure, but I don't think DE cares about us as much as new players, so this kind of thing doesn't surprise me at all.

[ShortCat]

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

And which sort of precedent does this set?
I mean if you're going to go full slippery slope you might as well start by saying what horrible things such a minor action will cause in the future.

Do you know the MEME going around that new content should be avoided at launch? It was ususally with regards to horrible player experience and and bad optimization. Now you can add active & irreversible disadvantages to the list. Even as a joke, said MEME is already a token of bad faith within the community and an indication of bad decision making on DE's side. The fact remains, players got excluded from one-time benefits, even though they completed necessary actions. Your personal ability to shoulder it is not a justificytion.

When DE makes all weapons go up to 40 capacity, like Kuva weapons, but won't retrofit existing ones to the new standard, remember this conversation /s

[Hypernaut1]

24 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

.

When DE makes all weapons go up to 40 capacity, like Kuva weapons, but won't retrofit existing ones to the new standard, remember this conversation /s

40 capacity is just endgame busy work. It's not meant to be rushed. It's just something to do when you have time and a booster. 

This is how a level headed player looks at it. You level it when you can. There really isn't no need to chase those mastery points if you aren't enjoying it leisurely. I have some weapons that are 32, some are at 40. I'm not sitting there power leveling each weapon until I hate myself. I like level them up when I get a booster, when I'm bored, when I'm doing a high affinity grind  

It's an endgame weapon that allows you to squeeze extra power out of it with the added incentive of mastery points you don't even need. You guys want to be rewarded for what you do, but also get mad at rewards because you insist it's forcing you to do it. 

[iHeuksal]

On 2021-07-08 at 4:16 AM, vanaukas said:

If only veterans weren't drowning on resources, wich is why they are called veterans...

Having tons of resources doesn't mean that we should waste them on this nonsense DE is causing here.

Their servers are running on a json based SQL server. It ain't hard at all scripting a bloody newbish UPDATE statement with innerjoints to update the helminth system for those who wasted their precious frames, ability infusions and resource feeding in this case.

Even a simple stored procedure would have done the job, by checking the current state of a player (as they do) and reapplying table data to fit the current affinity of the helminth system.

 

In all cases, DE miserably failed upon doing anything good but backstabbing veterans.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, iHeuksal said:

Having tons of resources doesn't mean that we should waste them on this nonsense DE is causing here.

Their servers are running on a json based SQL server. It ain't hard at all scripting a bloody newbish UPDATE statement with innerjoints to update the helminth system for those who wasted their precious frames, ability infusions and resource feeding in this case.

Even a simple stored procedure would have done the job, by checking the current state of a player (as they do) and reapplying table data to fit the current affinity of the helminth system.

 

In all cases, DE miserably failed upon doing anything good but backstabbing veterans.

One of the many reasons the helminth was introduced was because actual players kept saying "What am I supposed to do with all these resources? We need a resource sink."

Farming some plat and buying both 30 day boosters started to put me at the point where I was saying the same thing, and I'm not even a vet.